Young Men — Be Not Humiliated


When I was in the process of being divorced, my ex would hard to humiliate me.  My sin basically was not being good enough.  I didn’t deserve it and felt that it reflected more on her than me.  In fact, her friends and relatives (parents included) were on my side.  In any case, being fully in my blue-pill days, I was starting to see some red-pill ideas.  

In this situation, it is that in many cases, you can only be humiliated by an act if you allow yourself to be.  Various responses along the lines of ZFG (Zero Fucks Given) (which I implemented in this case), calmly stating how this reflects poorly on the other then walking, or maybe Agree And Amplify could work.  Your milage may vary.  In short, this can be a twofer, upping your masculinity and defusing a potential weapon.  

Exit Question — Would doing this be considered to be abuse?

Posted in FarmBoy, HowTo, Marriage
97 comments on “Young Men — Be Not Humiliated
  1. okrahead says:

    Farm Boy,
    “When I was in the process of being divorced….” Yeah, apparently we’ve all had THAT moment.
    As to not being good enough… I met with the church elders where my now ex and I were then members. The elders inquired as to my responsibility for my wife’s decision, to which I responded that my wife had no valid reason to file for divorce. The immediate response from the elder taking the lead was, “Are you claiming you’ve been sinlessly perfect the entire time you’ve been married?”
    In retrospect what they expected was a Maoist style self-recrimination session. I was supposed to confess every fault in my life, real or imagined, and confess that those faults did indeed justify my wife filing for divorce.
    By the way, none of this is part of what would be recognized as the “official doctrine” of the church I was a member of at the time. But one of the things you discover with converged churchianity is that while there may still be an old time “official doctrine” associated with a church, the actual governing laws have changed completely. Of course, it seems to me at least, that if the actual governing laws have completely changed there must have been a change of management, so to speak.

    Liked by 9 people

  2. horsemanbombadil says:

    Because SCIENCE!!!

    Like

  3. Sharkly says:

    Is FarmBoy now reduced to rediscovering and rehashing the pithy memes from crazy lesbians of yesteryear: /S

    LOL, I couldn’t resist “abusing” you for going all “Eleanor Roosevelt” on us.

    Prolly is a bit o’ wisdom in what yon rug-muncher hath said.

    [This why Hillary tried to contact her in a seance she did?]

    Like

  4. Farm Boy says:

    “Are you claiming you’ve been sinlessly perfect the entire time you’ve been married?”

    What a bunch of BS. In my ex’s case, her parents and friends thought she was nuts for filing for divorce. Perhaps they were more realistic than the church

    Liked by 5 people

  5. Farm Boy says:

    Is FarmBoy now reduced to rediscovering and rehashing the pithy memes from crazy lesbians of yesteryear:

    Actually no. There are going to be times that you are humiliated. No getting around that. There are other times when you have a choice.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. Farm Boy says:

    Eleanor Roosevelt always thought that she was being put upon. This, even though the White House has lots of servants

    Liked by 3 people

  7. okrahead says:

    The really disgraceful part is that the divorce court treated me a lot better than the church.

    Liked by 8 people

  8. horsemanbombadil says:

    From https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db356.htm

    In 2018, there were 67,367 drug overdose deaths in the United States, a 4.1% decline from 2017 (70,237 deaths).
    The age-adjusted rate of drug overdose deaths in 2018 (20.7 per 100,000) was 4.6% lower than in 2017 (21.7).

    From https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

    US 2,467,554 125,039 5.1% 38.22 (per 100,000)

    Canada 104,629 8,571 8.2% 23.13 (per 100,000)

    So perspective.

    Our covid death rate is roughly the same as the U.S drug overdose death rate.

    Seriously?? We didn’t shut the economy for the opiod crisis??

    Liked by 1 person

  9. But one of the things you discover with converged churchianity is that while there may still be an old time “official doctrine” associated with a church, the actual governing laws have changed completely. Of course, it seems to me at least, that if the actual governing laws have completely changed there must have been a change of management, so to speak.

    Our institutions are failing faster and faster, as those who just wanted to run them instead of uphold their ideals have been in charge of most of them for decades, and they now seem to think they can start acting openly.

    Liked by 5 people

  10. b g says:

    Who remembers a tougher but somehow gentler time ;-D

    *Brought to you on a Saturday evening by b g courtesy of Glenmorangie and Glenlivet ;-D

    Liked by 4 people

  11. h0neyc0mb says:

    Yes .. I recall th’ show ..

    And, I’m more of a Macallan’s kinda guy .. 12 years old will do. Especially on Saturday nights .. 👍🏼

    Liked by 1 person

  12. b g says:

    Yeah, I wouldn’t turn down a drink or two of it. The only ones that I don’t like are the overly heavily peated ones…that kinda just entirely misses the whole point ;-D

    Liked by 1 person

  13. b g says:

    Well, sometimes it is just okay, but sometimes he hits it out of the park ;-D

    Liked by 1 person

  14. b g says:

    And RPG if you want to see merit, fill your boots, there has been three generations of female lying, stealing, and cheating, we are are tired of the female horseshit. Walk your talk.

    Liked by 2 people

  15. Cheque d'Out says:

    Liked by 2 people

  16. Cheque d'Out says:


    Is that American Werewolf in London? Or Paris (the sequel)?

    Liked by 3 people

  17. Cheque d'Out says:

    True.

    Like

  18. Bottlenose Lives Matter

    Liked by 5 people

  19. Oops, but still…

    Now Bottlenose Lives Matter.

    Liked by 3 people

  20. Liz says:

    Loved the Waltons.

    Seriously?? We didn’t shut the economy for the opiod crisis??

    Think it is more a resource problem than a number problem.
    There was a military tactic (can’t remember which leader…think it’s ancient history) who didn’t kill the soldiers his army defeated nor did he capture them. He blinded all but one. This ensured they had a long, long road back home and thousands of invalids for decades to come. That village, city, nation…wasn’t going to send an army against his for generations.

    Liked by 2 people

  21. Liz says:

    We have a high school senior visiting (daughter of our friends, who are also here) who looks pretty much exactly like that girl in the photo above. Our sons are handling it pretty well I think.

    Liked by 4 people

  22. Liz says:

    Just to add, she was 11 last time they saw her (now she’s 18)

    Liked by 3 people

  23. Peterson is a drama queen, but knows a good script when he sees one, and knows that playing the “villain” is a lot more fun than being the hero, especially if you already have F.U. money in the bank.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. I always thought The Waltons was like Lassie, but without Lassie. Bleh.

    Liked the music though.

    Like

  25. Farm Boy says:

    A woman was repeatedly assaulted at a BLM protest in Austin, Texas for the sin of holding a sign that said “Police Lives Matter

    https://summit.news/2020/06/27/woman-assaulted-at-blm-protest-for-holding-police-lives-matter-sign/

    Liked by 1 person

  26. Farm Boy says:

    Alleged Black Lives Matter activists stormed a Target store in Washington, D.C., on Friday night and appeared to threaten to shut down their business if they called the police.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/watch-blm-activists-storm-target-store-threaten-to-shut-your-business-down-if-you-call-the-police

    Like

  27. Farm Boy says:

    Important news of the day

    Pop star and left-wing political activist Taylor Swift said Friday that she found the two gender options on the U.S. Census “so upsetting,” maintaining that it was an “erasure” of “transgender” and “nonbinary” people.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/taylor-swift-deeply-upset-by-gender-options-on-u-s-census

    Like

  28. Went on a multi-family summer vacation trip to Lake Lanier with a friends family back around 78-79. I was ~13 as were 4 other boys there. One family brought their 3 daughters, 17, 12, and 9. Every morning the mothers would make breakfast for 20 people in one of the rented cottages. Every morning the very well-developed 17 yo would show up in a bikini and flip-flops and her mother (the queen bee) couldn’t stop grinning and chuckling while watching us boys squirm while still trying to get an eye-full. The 12 yo was cute, but still flat as a board and wore a t-shirt 24/7. She hung out with us boys most of the time, could keep up with whatever we were doing and was actually very pleasant company. Wonder if she maintained that demeanor… With a mother like that, I have my doubts.

    Liked by 2 people

  29. Remember when T-Swizzle was the poster girl for the WNs?

    Liked by 1 person

  30. Farm Boy says:

    Lentz apparently has trained his kids to do diversity head counts while watching films. In fact, he could hardly contain his excitement in relaying the story to Bishop Jakes of the time his daughter asked him why “Home Alone” was called an “American Classic” when there aren’t any black characters? Shouldn’t it be called a “white classic” instead, she insisted? “I stood up,” Lentz recalled, and said, “you’re exactly right,” clapping his hands as a proud dad. Now Lentz’s daughter admonishes her classmates for watching the “white classic” around Christmastime.

    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/06/god_save_us_from_the_woke_pastor_.html

    Like

  31. Farm Boy says:

    A St. Olaf College theater department professor blamed “white rage” and a fear of white students as reasons for her recent decision to leave her job at the small, private campus.

    https://www.thecollegefix.com/theater-prof-cites-white-rage-fear-of-white-students-as-reason-for-leaving-job/

    Like

  32. Farm Boy says:

    With waning severity and more effective treatment, the idea of a ‘new normal’ is not required. And there is simply no excuse for this information not to be in the hands of the public.

    https://pjmedia.com/columns/stacey-lennox/2020/06/27/the-good-news-about-covid-19-the-corporate-media-keeps-hidden-n583317

    Like

  33. Farm Boy says:

    Twitter cesspool

    Like

  34. theshadowedknight says:

    CHAZ is apparently no more. I just realized, this was an anarchist commune and I didn’t raid it for women. Damnit. A few weeks ago I might have been able to find and tame one of the girls looking for a dicking down. My Viking ancestors are disappointed in me.

    Like

  35. Farm Boy says:

    The number of Americans who have contracted COVID-19 is likely 10 times higher than the 2.5 million currently confirmed cases, the head of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/fatality-rate-plunges-as-cdc-director-says-covid-cases-likely-10x-higher

    Like

  36. Wolverine wouldn’t be on Twitter.

    Like

  37. Farm Boy says:

    Every morning the very well-developed 17 yo would show up in a bikini and flip-flops and her mother (the queen bee) couldn’t stop grinning and chuckling while watching us boys squirm while still trying to get an eye-full.

    I wonder If “being a good mother” had ever occurred to her

    Liked by 2 people

  38. Farm Boy says:

    Question

    Can McDonalds still ask if you want a girl toy or boy toy with respect to Happy Meals?

    Like

  39. Who eats at McDonald’s anymore? Nasty. And I can remember when I thought going there was a real treat.

    Like

  40. Not good…

    Liked by 1 person

  41. Farm Boy says:

    “I just had the privilege of signing a very strong Executive Order protecting American Monuments, Memorials, and Statues – and combatting recent Criminal Violence. Long prison terms for these lawless acts against our Great Country!” Trump tweeted.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/trump-executive-order-strips-federal-funding-from-cities-who-fail-to-protect-federal-monuments

    Like

  42. Gunner Q says:

    “Question

    “Can McDonalds still ask if you want a girl toy or boy toy with respect to Happy Meals?”

    There are no more boy toys. The last one wanted double pay before he would work the fry cooker while shirtless. Wage gap!!!

    Liked by 2 people

  43. Liz says:

    By crazy coincidence, exactly the same night (and within an hour) a Madison woman suffered face burns due to a “hate crime” someone used an incendiary device on a public building!

    Like

  44. Farm Boy says:

    With that simple substitution, we expose a core belief shared by many Americans. They believe centralizing decision-making is effective in unknown, complex conditions and they want their politicians to do something. Like Dr. Fauci, they believe the path forward is obedience.

    https://www.aier.org/article/why-facts-dont-matter-to-people/

    Like

  45. Liz says:

    We went to South Park yesterday, and our friend’s 18 year old daughter had a MAGA mask she wore into the gas station. She got a lot of compliments.

    [The museum or area it would be?]

    Liked by 2 people

  46. Liz says:

    Our kids all know the words to this song (they were playing it in the car on the way back).

    Liked by 1 person

  47. Farm Boy says:

    You have undoubtedly heard of “cancel culture,” in which one comment or tweet, or even silence, can cost anyone their job and turn their life upside down. Cancel culture appears to be a recent phenomenon from our college campuses. It isn’t. It sometimes appears to target the famous, but it usually doesn’t. The obscurity of a given target is part of cancel culture’s message intended to terrify everyone. No one is safe.

    Mr. Jones tells the true story of speaking real truth to actual power, be it a government or an all-powerful newspaper.

    https://pjmedia.com/culture/bryan-preston/2020/06/23/mr-jones-movie-depicts-when-the-new-york-times-helped-stalin-cancel-10-million-n568265

    Liked by 1 person

  48. Farm Boy says:

    The coronavirus, the economic shutdowns and the frequent street protests, mixed with pillaging and vandalism, are no ordinary hurdles, but they are surmountable — with courageous leadership.

    Tragically, that’s exactly what New York doesn’t have. The crises pile up like dead leaves, but leadership is nowhere to be found

    Without it, the city is fast becoming unlivable. The slow exodus of recent years has quickened in recent months, with natives, long-timers and recent arrivals clogging the exits.

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/27/de-blasio-grows-worse-by-the-day-making-nyc-unlivable-goodwin/

    Liked by 2 people

  49. Cheque d'Out says:

    I’ve watched it about 20 times. It gets funnier every time

    Liked by 4 people

  50. Farm Boy says:

    As police warn that the disbanding of vital units will lead to anarchy in New York City, a total of eleven people were shot in the space of under 12 hours on Saturday night.

    https://summit.news/2020/06/29/the-new-normal-in-nyc-11-people-shot-in-under-12-hours/

    Like

  51. Farm Boy says:

    Viral video captured the moment a St. Louis couple armed themselves and defended their home from a Black Lives Matter mob that had forced their way into the gated community.

    https://summit.news/2020/06/29/video-shows-armed-residents-defending-luxurious-home-from-blm-mob/

    Like

  52. Farm Boy says:

    About 150 people rallied outside the Museum of Natural History on Sunday in an effort to save the statue of President Teddy Roosevelt there from removal.

    https://nypost.com/2020/06/28/protesters-rally-to-save-museum-of-natural-historys-roosevelt-statue/

    Like

  53. Farm Boy says:

    SODOM AND GOMORRAH—Mistaking her for a racist statue, an angry mob has torn down Lot’s wife, who is a pillar of salt. His wife was thought to be a hateful symbol of white privilege and patriarchy and probably some other bad stuff.

    https://babylonbee.com/news/protesters-near-sodom-and-gomorrah-tear-down-lots-wife

    Liked by 3 people

  54. Farm Boy says:

    Eventually they will come for everyone

    Fringe activists set up a guillotine in front of Amazon CEO Jeff Bezos’s home in Washington, D.C., on Sunday where they reportedly demanded that Amazon be abolished.

    https://www.dailywire.com/news/activists-set-up-guillotine-in-front-of-jeff-bezoss-d-c-home-call-for-amazon-to-be-abolished

    Liked by 1 person

  55. Right idea, wrong reasons

    Look like they’re mainly expecting australopithecus activists to take part.

    Liked by 1 person

  56. That is awesome. When can they start printing ani-gifs on shirts that is going to be my first one.

    Liked by 2 people

  57. Liz says:

    A great deal of the Muslim jihadist expansion and conquest over the Christian world back in those early Caliph years was due to severe divisions within Christianity over minor details (like whether sacramental bread should be leavened or unleavened).

    Liked by 3 people

  58. Liz says:

    The above might seem random. Just came to mind after reading Adam’s latest post.

    Liked by 1 person

  59. People’s Front of Judea vs. Judean People’s Front.

    What did Rome ever do for us? Besides medicine, roads, sanitation, …

    Liked by 3 people

  60. Liz says:

    Liked by 1 person

  61. Cheque d'Out says:

    How do ‘we’ feel about The Trump’s performance and chances?

    Liked by 6 people

  62. I’m so black-pilled about politics now, I couldn’t care less about Trump or the “elections”. We’ve got Marxists, Radical Islamists, the Deep State, Chinese-owned Puppets, Tech Oligarchs all running the show now.

    We ain’t voting or talking our way out of this.

    Liked by 3 people

  63. Liz says:

    I think if there is a debate, Trump will win.
    But I don’t think there’s a snowflake’s chance in hades the Democrats will allow a debate.
    I’m hopeful but not optimistic.

    Liked by 4 people

  64. Farm Boy says:

    Hulu Criticized After Removing Golden Girls Episode: ‘They Were in Mud Masks, Not Blackface’

    https://legalinsurrection.com/2020/06/hulu-criticized-after-removing-golden-girls-episode-they-were-in-mud-masks-not-blackface/

    Like

  65. theshadowedknight says:

    KH, if you are blackpilled, they have you right where they want you. How much easier is the fight going to be with Trump in the White House versus Biden? Why do you think the wall to wall negative coverage is what it is? They are trying to demoralize you. Trump has come through for us plenty of times. Rome was not built in a day.

    Liked by 3 people

  66. okrahead says:

    TSK,
    I heartily concur. Currently BLM/Antifa can run amok in blue cities because they have the backing of the establishment. Normal citizens and beat cops have been made well aware that if they resist BLM rioters it is they, not the rioters, who will be prosecuted. BLM/Antifa has not been doing this in red areas because the citizenry and police are not afraid of being arrested and imprisoned (or worse) themselves for resisting the mob.

    If Uncle Smell My Finger wins in November this protection for BLM/Antifa will go nationwide. Any citizen or police officer anywhere in the country who resists rioters, no matter how violent, will face FEDERAL prosecution, almost certainly for “civil rights violations” against “peaceful protesters.” This is the Democrat/Soros endgame. If Biden wins, BLM/Antifa can, and will, exponentially increase their violence so that what we’re now witnessing will seem no worse than jaywalking. You will be looking at these two groups openly murdering and raping along with looting, with the full force of Chris Wray’s FBI protecting them by arresting anyone who resists.

    So yes, things can still get much worse. Ditch the black pill and fight.

    Liked by 1 person

  67. Cheque d'Out says:

    Liked by 1 person

  68. JPF says:

    While reading the link from Farm Boy on Mr. Jones (https://pjmedia.com/culture/bryan-preston/2020/06/23/mr-jones-movie-depicts-when-the-new-york-times-helped-stalin-cancel-10-million-n568265), I saw a link with more info at The Atlantic web site.

    The Atlantic has an interesting example of the extreme media bias about Trump and Corona virus… or should I say deception?
    https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/this-is-trumps-plague-now/613633/

    It is interesting that the author of this piece is careful to stick to the numbers of infections… instead of the numbers of people that die or are seriously affected, to the point of needing hospitalization.
    Infection numbers are irrelevant. Same as for the number of people infected with a cold, or with a flu.

    Liked by 3 people

  69. theshadowedknight says:

    I posted this over at Bloom’s place.

    Tim Pool also has a video up on it. Looks like the elite left is targeting all of their enemies. Going after the right and the far left in one go.

    On the black pill front, does that sound like the actions of a stable power? This is openly coordinated, a naked attack. They are getting desperate.

    Liked by 1 person

  70. horsemanbombadil says:

    Agreed KH

    I have fuck you money, skills I can use in a barter environment, a rural location and an offshore bugout location.

    I really don’t give two shits what anyone thinks of me. Cancel me! How??

    Don’t like my (lack of) politics, my skin colour, my face. Well fuck off. Seriously, fuck off.

    If you are in a situation where cancel culture is a direct threat then you aint planned enough.

    Like

  71. OKRickety says:

    Okrahead’s account of meeting with the church elders is greatly similar to my experience during my divorce. I met with them and was relatively dumbfounded at their failure to take action. At some point during that meeting I did challenge them to tell me what I had done to justify the divorce. Crickets then, crickets after. Never a response.

    Liked by 6 people

  72. Sharkly says:

    OKRickety,
    Is there somewhere where you have your story typed up?

    I’m thinking about possibly making a post about okrahead’s, yours, and my experience and any other men who had that same church experience. Throughout my marriage I tried going for help to numerous pastors, so I got to experience what okrahead described multiple times. If any of you men have your encounter with your church written up somewhere, or want to write about it here, I’ll try to use it.

    Liked by 4 people

  73. Tsk I agree Trump’s not perfect but he’s a fat sight better than this blue state thing becoming the 24/7 nationwide for four more years (or let’s face it, would there ever be a fair election again?) Fight, fight, fight!

    Liked by 5 people

  74. Cheque d'Out says:

    Prepare yourself for a shock. I’m on his side. She was a complete catastrophe renowned for not listening to views at variance to her own. Stubborn, opinionated and WRONG.

    Liked by 1 person

  75. bee123456 says:

    Sharkly,

    Snapper has not been divorced but he did not get much help in several meetings with his pastors:

    https://snappertrx.wordpress.com/2016/09/27/meeting-with-my-pastors-i/

    Liked by 1 person

  76. Liz says:

    Have to get something off my chest. This is just take a moment.

    Excuse me while I scratch my nails on the chalkboard.
    (scree…scree…scratch, scratch, screeeeeee…)
    Repeats above again and again. Every day. Five, sometimes ten times a day. For months…
    Participant: “Could you stop?”
    What, you don’t like this? Must be a hater and apologist….
    (scree…..scree…..scratch, scratch)
    “Seriously dude, I can’t take anymore”
    Too bad. (screee, scree, scratch….)
    months and months of this later,
    “Hey you obviously can’t think of any reason my chalkboard scratching is irritating, so now you’re resorting to ad hominems. Stay on topic. Sheesh”

    Back to your regular scheduled programming.

    Liked by 2 people

  77. Liz says:

    The babies are getting too big for the nest now. I’ve put a little carpet on the pavement so hopefully when they take their first solo the landing won’t be too hard.

    Liked by 3 people

  78. JPF says:

    When you closely examine the life in our world, it is difficult to believe someone could think this life, that is both complex and beautiful, came by random, unguided chance.

    Liked by 4 people

  79. Liz says:

    Liked by 1 person

  80. Sumo says:

    Have to get something off my chest. This is just take a moment.

    Something appears to be vexing our Lizard. I wonder whatever that could be…..

    Liked by 1 person

  81. Liz says:

    Might try to start a betting pool.
    Will he start scratching that chalkboard again?
    Okay, obvious yes…but when? When?

    Like

  82. OKRickety says:

    Liz, I’ll suppose it really was the MAGA mask, but from what you said about your friend’s daughter, she’d get compliments wearing just about anything short of a burqa.

    Liked by 2 people

  83. OKRickety says:

    Sharkly, I don’t think I have a full write-up anywhere but I could do one if you’d like. Let me know.

    Liked by 1 person

  84. Sharkly says:

    OKRickety,
    Yes, that would be great. Just let me know where you post it. Whatever treatment you want to give it is fine with me.

    Like

  85. ikr says:

    Sharkly, I am in a situation of being unable to wait for your blog post on the matter, so offer my insight pre-emptively here. I will skip all mentions of the male burden of spiritual leadership, the importance of knowing Scripture lest you get caught applying apostasy within your home, or being judged greater as Je 23:1, or how to speak the truth in love etc. I speak only to the situation of involving others within your domestic sphere.

    For Sharkly and all men who have gone to the ‘church elders’ for assistance with disobedience. The result will 100% always be unfavorable to your plight for 2 reasons:

    1) Ep 5:23. You are the head of the family, not the church. The veil was torn. The hierarchy in God’s creation is Father-Son-Man-Woman-Child. Nowhere does any other man enter the hierarchy (except her father, before she is wed). By supplicating your issue of a disobedient wife to not just a lesser authority- but a NON authority- in the matter, you have demonstrated weakness. Instead, your frame is to be unmovable before the disobedient wife or child. You are accountable to and receive aid from Christ alone. He is above you in God’s pecking order. Other men in Pr 27:17 within a trusted circle you should absolutely have help guide you and they will perhaps bring valuable critique to your Walk, but your authority can never be given away to another, especially an entity that in no way is higher up the hierarchy, let alone present within the hierarchy at all. Perhaps her mother or grandmother is seeing the disobedience and will assist as they are instructed in Tt 2 to guide her in loving (obeying) her husband, but this is not a promise, nor can you instruct them to, as you are not THEIR authority.
    The ‘church elders’ CANNOT help you, because in God’s hierarchy, they do not have authority over your wife: YOU alone do. Hell, not even her father has any authority after your have taken her as your bride.
    (Catholics and other non-Christian ‘Christians’ will struggle especially with understanding this point, for the second reason:)

    2) We know that apostasy will come chiefly from within the church, and we are well at that stage in the earthly timeline. The proper tactic when dealing with ANY church is to be a ‘grey man’. Show up, pray, mingle superficially, participate with some manual labor ‘when your busy schedule permits it’ lest anyone say any negative word about you. Engaging in theological discussions, attempting to sway a pastorate (HA! HILARIOUS!), ‘getting to know the ladies ministry’ etc are fruitless. Live instead to allow your works (fruits of the spirit) be on display should anyone come sniffing. There are many reasons to attend a church (chief among them the commandment for corporate worship as an encouragement Mt 18:20), but treat it like the minefield that it is. Feminist churchian boomers on your left and humanist unitarian millenials on your right.
    The ‘church elders’ are in the position they are in because they have the same exact path to audience as a politician: they have appealed to a mass of people. Popularity is their gift. Threaten their very food supply, and they will lash out like a threatened animal.
    The ‘church elders’ WILL NOT help you, because in the social hierarchy, they must appear more pious as their material goods (tithes = salary) depend on it. They will always choose the route of earthly gain over spiritual conviction- we know this because the very position appeals to weak men. Warriors do not occupy pulpits.

    (The only trustworthy pastor can only be a lay pastor, as the example given 2 Th 3. Alternatively, one who has done spiritual battle in the social square and borne social punishment eg. incarceration.)

    No, you will not and cannot receive help outside yourself when dealing with a disobedient wife or child. Threatening them with a talking to, sending them to the police, bringing her father into the conversation etc all shoot yourself in the gonads as you undermine your own authority in doing so.

    The church requires a Rock, solid and immovable: this is Christ. So too does the family have the same requirement of you. Just as He answers only to the Father, you answer only to the Son. If the individual under your authority wishes to pull a Prodigal, good riddance. They wish to involve the magistrate- this person is not your spiritual leader within your home vis-a-vis your family. Shame your within the church? Mt 10:14. Mt 10:14. Mt 10:14.

    Frame of reference: this message comes from a man fast approaching 40 who has never been wed, chiefly due to the reason that I approach women in courtship with this very attitude and understanding of Scripture. I share it not in judgement but encouragement. Women are rebels, and but a scant few will flee before responsibility. They approach with enthusiasm, but when personal humility or sacrifice is required, ain’t nothing on four legs can move as quickly.

    No man is responsible for what happens to a woman when she is in disobedience, but we are always responsible for embodying the authority we have been given as men.

    Liked by 1 person

  86. RichardP says:

    ikr – the general thrust of your comments are not supported by the New Testament description of the church. This one grouping of words spoken to the “church members”, taken at face value, destroys much of the logic that you develop in your comments above:

    If your brother or sister sins, go and point out their fault, just between the two of you. If they listen to you, you have won them over. But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that ‘every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses. If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. Matthew18:15-17 (NIV)

    If your brother (male) or sister (female) sins, go (you, regardless of sex) and point out their fault. Nothing here about being forbidden from acting unless it is within the confines of proper authority over (dad over daughter; husband over wife). In other verses, the “church members” are instructed to exhort each other in the faith. That is, to keep reminding each other of God’s claim on their lives, lest any forget and slip back into sin. Again, there is no requirement that this be done ONLY within the confines of proper authority over (dad over daughter; husband over wife). Let us (plural) consider one another (plural) – to provoke and exhort – within the confines of teaching each other about God’s claim on our lives. (But then, yeah, if they won’t receive us, shake the dust off the sandals and kick them to the curb.)

    Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; … And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.” (Hebrews 10:19-25)

    You will find the details of this in the middle of this blurb: The entire article is worth considering.

    https://www.bible-truth.org/church.htm

    Liked by 1 person

  87. SFC Ton says:

    have a high school senior visiting (daughter of our friends, who are also here) who looks pretty much exactly like that girl in the photo above. Our sons are handling it pretty well I think.
    ……….

    Does that mean one of your sons drilled a baby in her?

    Liked by 1 person

  88. SFC Ton says:

    I think some of y”all forget what it’s like to be young and walking around with a boner 22+ hours a day.

    Hell I’m 52’ish and still rape my bitches 2-3 times day

    Liked by 1 person

  89. Liz says:

    Does that mean one of your sons drilled a baby in her?

    No.
    (but maybe some day)
    😆

    Liked by 1 person

  90. ikr says:

    Richard, the crux of your rebuttal relies on shoehorning ‘brother’ and ‘sister’, over whom you have no authority, and thus with whom you have mutual standing before the King, as applying between husband and wife.

    If husbands and wives can count their faults and always approach the ‘church’ (or each other) for grievance, then there is mutuality in applicability in the verse you present. Can a wife then find fault with her husband and bring HIM before a body of believers for correction? Nay! For she is commanded to submit in EVERYTHING (which includes when he is wrong) to him in Ep 5 or Cl 3. When he is in sin? What about sin to the point that he denies Christ? She is to be in silence and win him through her good works per 1 Pt 3: “you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, 2 as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior.”(NASB). Without a single word, but with her pure actions of submissiveness to him, is how the Creator will manifest conviction in his heart.

    You speak of overall Biblical tone, so let’s not miss the forest for the trees. Women are repeated throughout the Bible to be submissive and quiet and gentle- all affirmed as being pleasing to God, and actively warned against being busy-bodies or argumentative or unfaithful- all affirmed as being the mark of a whore. A woman’s grievances can be brought before God in accordance with the all of Scripture (Mt 5:44, 6:6, 11:28, etc etc), and she can do this absolutely- the veil was torn indeed. BUT! she is not to exercise any headship over her husband. To bring him before a group of men is a clear violation of her command to submit AS UNTO THE LORD as she is demonstrating that his authority is insufficient for her submission and requires a ‘talking to’ by other men?

    What you have espoused here is false doctrine, and the inverting of the case which would allow for a ‘sister’ (which you substitute for wife) to bring a ‘brother’ (substituted for husband) exposes it clearly.

    In the parlance of our times, this false doctrine is the spiritual equivalent of encouraging a Karen, looking out of one’s house (Walk) into another person’s house (Walk) and calling the authorities (churchians) at any suspected crime (sin). No neighborhood (church) wants a Karen.

    I have read the article you linked (taking 30+ minutes). It is quite lengthy and I am unsure which part you hint at ‘in the center’ regarding the topic at hand. The ‘church’ unit is the family: husband-wife-children. The greater ‘church’ is a body of believers. Endstate. How the body of believers organizes itself- all well and good- is irrelevant to this conversation. I cannot find anything in this article that ‘destroys’ the logic in my previous post. Instead, you merely dismissed it in hand. I have already pointed out the value of others within the church assisting you in your walk as a man, and hinted at context.

    The most applicable part is perhaps “The Importance of the Local Church to the Believer” which cites examples with Scriptural backing on what the local church does. The encouragement, corporate prayer, teaching of sound doctrine, REPROOF.. this is understood. But context is everything: the authority of the ‘church’ stops at the man of the house. This is all healthy between men (Pr 27:17) but cannot be healthy across marital lines. A pastor and husband disagree on a topic: who does the wife follow? Mt 6:24, Mk 3:25. Nay, a wife is to ALWAYS follow her husband- HE is her pastor per 1 Co 14. The man is the filter of bad doctrine from the greater body of believers from penetrating his cellular membrane- his flock- his family- his church. He is the check-balance from apostasy from spreading. A woman who listens to the sweet song of a pastor’s against her husband’s teaching is practicing rebellion and the pastor is guilty of sowing division within the marriage (woe to you RCC!).

    And even if the husband is in the wrong and the pastor is right, what does the Bible command to the woman? This sort of uncomfortable question will expose one’s true trust in the Word of God: the commandment does not change just because the situation does.
    The Bible is clear that she is under his dominion (he has named her Ge 2), under his rule (Ge 3), she is to submit in everything, call him ‘lord’, cultivating a quiet and gentle spirit, win him without a single word etc. If his dominion is tyrannical, his rule is ruthless, his leadership faulty- it matters NOT!
    Do we trust that God knew man was not perfect and will make mistakes and yet He does not give any ‘outs’ to the woman, but affirms over and over her submission. Do we believe the Bible is inerrant? Do we truly trust God’s plan? Difficult, is it not?

    Not present in my first post, yet even stronger affirmation comes from Ge 3:16 in the Father affirming to the woman that a man will ‘rule over’ her (it is first her father, then her husband- and a woman not under authority is shameful to the Lord). A firm understanding of the hierarchy of authority comes from the Roman Centurion in Lk 7 / Mt 8 and Jesus affirms him before his crowd of fellow Jews exclaiming that ‘none of you supposed God-fearing people have grasped authority, but this [Gentile] guy gets it!’. So as Christ is head of the church, the husband is head of the family.

    I have authority because I am under authority. My authority (and responsibility) to act as the leader is given to me by birthright as a man, and the standard to which I am held is audited by Christ, convicted by the Spirit, judged at Judgement by the Father. The commands/discipline/reward I give to those under my authority have already been sanctioned by my post. If I abuse my authority, it is not my wife who holds me accountable, it is the King. If she shirks or forgoes her command for submissiveness, being under my authority, I am to hold her accountable as such is the responsibility of my post.

    A husband-wife is 1 flesh, and there is but 1 leader of that flesh. The two souls are commanded to total leadership/dominion and total submissiveness to and for each other, respectively. There are no loopholes in God’s Creation, no 90/10 splits, no hidden interpretations. Do not make the mistake of confusing what YOU (the royal ‘you’) have found works or is comfortable in YOUR walk with what GOD has commanded for our walks.

    Spiritual authority and the hierarchy in God’s creation is the key to understanding the fall in the garden (original sin), and proper framing of all of the Bible. It is difficult for those in the church who still have vision clouded by a Catholic/feminist worldview. It is a difficult lens to shake as egalitarianism and complementarianism (the gateway drug) is so rife within both [Western] society and church writings/authors. It is increasingly difficult to understand as there are almost no positive examples in Western societies of this: one must go back to the Eastern (Slavic) lands to find men and women more attuned to living out this Biblical doctrine. Note that even there, men still have a nature of cowardice and women of rebellion as such is our curses since the Fall.

    Men and women were created with different roles, and have different ‘standing orders’ (a military’ism) in God’s Creation. Reading the whole of the Bible and using only the Bible to interpret the Bible will reveal even the most subtle of Satan’s lies. It was enough for Christ (Mt 4), after all.

    I am time-limited and will be unable to engage further on this topic or thread. I have given you novels of explanation in an effort to capture all loose ends. I hope both my OP and response have proven helpful to dial in the importance of assuming the mantle of leadership to the men of Christ who have considered the church to be beneficial in supporting your authority. It is a tool of personal encouragement for all believers, not part of the hierarchy of spirituality in God’s Creation. The veil was torn. You are the firstmade in Creation. If you are indeed a slave to Christ, you have no choice: assume the position of leader. Hold fast to the Word. Be strong in the Lord.

    Thank you Cill for allowing my comments as a first time poster.

    Liked by 1 person

  91. SFC Ton says:

    Does that mean one of your sons drilled a baby in her?

    No.
    (but maybe some day)
    😆
    ………..

    No time like the present and she isn’t going to get better with age

    Girl#2’s sister was stunning at 14, pretty good looking at 16….. meet the wall by 20.

    Liked by 1 person

  92. theshadowedknight says:

    Yeah, I’m backing Ton on this one. I’m in my 30s and I’m still in possession of a strong libido. Being surrounded by college girls with half their tits and ass hanging out of their “clothes” is a constant test of my self control and common sense. If you do not get attracted to a young women advertising that she is looking to get knocked up, you may want to get it checked out. If I knew a decent, respectable teenager that was looking for a husband, I’d be down. Problem is they are as rare as diamonds, and you have to dig through coal and mud to find them.

    Liked by 2 people

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