Shit Test Diagnosis And Cure


Way back when, my ex-wife would shit test me almost to no end.  She would try to bait me, but I never rise to the challenge.  In a way I sort-of maybe a little bit passed.  But not really.  My Spock-like demeanor was good, but often I did what she asked for.  If it was something really unreasonable, I would say no.  Well, in reality, I did not pass, and she is now my ex.

At the time, I figured that this was driven by some silliness, being an mental illness or hormones or something,  She was highly educated in a field where rational thinking was expected, so I figured that whatever this was would eventually pass and she would be rational again.  Well, it never did.  Now I know why.

What is the lesson here.  When a woman is acting in a manner that you consider worthy of a mental illness, it might be that she is suffering from an acute form of inflamed shit-testing, shititis.  The cure is to stand up to her and tell her how it will be.  Ideally the inflammation will subside quickly with no long term effects.

Note that the title of this piece promises much.  View that as a bit of hyperbolic poetic license one should

Posted in FarmBoy, HowTo, Marriage
172 comments on “Shit Test Diagnosis And Cure
  1. Fnu Mnu Lnu says:

    “to lose is to win. and he who wins shall lose!” – Rassilon

    sounds like a case where losing the game has ended up with you winning your life back! i’ve gone through something very similar.

    I don’t think you can overlook the fact that menopause causes them to shit test even more than they did before.

    about two years ago my STBX went off on me out of the blue, and complaining that I had allowed our 21-year-old daughter to get some tattoos. I told her I had no idea that the girl was going to do that and since she was technically an adult, I wouldn’t have been able to stop her anyway. she yelled at me for a good 15 minutes about what I had “allowed”, and then started giving me the silent treatment and would not respond any questions I made of her.

    two hours later the girl came home, and apparently had only gotten a second ear piercing and never even contemplated getting a tattoo of any sort.

    this was just one of many cases where my STBX tried baiting me into an argument over nothing, and in this case over something that was completely false.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. earl says:

    The childish rebellion in women, which is encouraged and celebrated, seems to know no bounds anymore.

    ‘The cure is to stand up to her and tell her how it will be. Ideally the inflammation will subside quickly with not long term effects.’

    I honestly don’t know outside of divine intervention what to do to stop it when you got almost everything working against you. Sure you could stand up to her, give her the logic, the pimp hand, the cold shoulder, the angry retort, or some other means…but do any of these really work in the long run when it’s her heart that’s the problem?

    Liked by 2 people

  3. Farm Boy says:

    FML,

    I really know about that baiting thing. They know that they are wrong, but by baiting you, they can make you the “bad guy”. What did you do that was bad? Well, you got mad

    Like

  4. Farm Boy says:

    My ex just came short of blaming me for the excess amount of wind where we lived. To actually do it would have been obviously stupid; but to edge up to that still allows plausible deniability

    Like

  5. Fnu Mnu Lnu says:

    actually i didn’t get mad. that’s what they are looking for, so they can use the incident against you in their divorce filing.

    once things get to a certain point, you are better off just ignoring that nonsense. it pisses them off more, and they can’t use it against you in court.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. Fnu Mnu Lnu says:

    Honestly, i really don’t believe that there is a cure. you may be able to do things to minimize the symptoms. but in reality the only thing you can do to make things better ling-term, is to disconnect and just not deal with it anymore.

    Liked by 2 people

  7. SFC Ton says:

    Honestly, i really don’t believe that there is a cure.
    …….

    The cure is called the pimp hand

    Liked by 3 people

  8. earl says:

    Don’t Buy Her Another Box of Cookies

    ‘ Some [men], who are concerned about frustrating [women], give in to [women]’s whims when they are crying, mistaking these whims for genuine needs. In the broken cookie example, a [husband] may take his [wife] to the store to buy another box of cookies. The result of this indulgent style of [husbandry] is that the [wife] generally becomes more and more demanding and difficult to live with. This is not because [she] has been given too much. It is because [she] never has an opportunity to release pent-up feelings by crying and raging. These are [women] with stress just like all [women], but their [husbands]’ inappropriate responses to their attempts to release stress have prevented the [wives] from healing themselves.

    When [husbands] “give in” after a wife has whined and begged for a long time, [she] is prevented from having a good cry and releasing stress. The [wife] will soon find another reason to whine and beg, and this will continue until she is allowed an opportunity to have a full-blown cry. This is the main mechanism by which permissiveness can lead to [wives] who are demanding and obnoxious.’

    http://savingeve.net/box-of-cookies/

    [Not so sure about this model I am]

    Like

  9. Ame says:

    my Husband stood up to me from the very beginning. i’d question things he did and said, and he basically told me that’s what it was, take it or leave it. and i have to admit, i loved that. i’ve got a wee bit of a strong personality 😉 … and i hate that i can control a good number of men. i just wanted a man to be able to stand up to me and put me in my place … to make decisions and not default them all to me.

    i remember when we were dating he did something i didn’t like, and i kinda (maybe a wee bit, or so 😉 ) freaked out about it, “You did ____?!!!” “Yep.” i kept trying to bring it back up, and he finally shut me down. take it or leave it, but that’s how he was.

    he’ll let out the line sometimes, but when i start getting bitchy, he tugs it back in and straightens me out.

    honestly, it makes me feel safe, protected, loved, and secure.

    Liked by 4 people

  10. Some women get it and some don’t. Maybe all will shit test on occasion but some are just cray-cray-cray-extra-cray and their shit testing is beyond any “dealing with.” Such women end up alone with cats. Maybe they connect the dots, maybe they just stay bitter haters, but either way at least they solved the problem for their guy by filing for divorce and getting gone. Winning!

    Liked by 2 people

  11. And yes fml, when dealing with the truly personality disordered, ignoring their baiting bs is really what gets them the most — the non-reaction, anti-drama. They just can’t understand when somebody isn’t conned into their “react to the impossible situation I created so I can make you the bad one” game, waaaah. But it’s really the only way to win in that case — zfg.

    Liked by 3 people

  12. RichardP says:

    @Ame said: it makes me feel safe, protected, loved, and secure.

    Q1: Have you ever thought once about how it makes him feel?

    @Ame said: i hate that i can control a good number of men. i just wanted a man to be able to stand up to me and put me in my place

    Q2: Why?? Why not just control your urge to control men? Why not put yourself in your place? Why make others do it?

    These are rhetorical questions. But they are questions that many men would like a definitive answer to. You are not alone in thinking that way and behaving that way. That thinking and behavior has baffled most every man I have ever known.

    And then, Ame, you seem to give the answer: you said you wanted a man to make decisions and not default them all to me.

    That is a useful thing to read, because it gives your other comments a perspective that is missing without that comment just quoted. But then I remember the following. (Bear with me until I get to the point please.)

    Shortly after we were married, being mindful of all of the conversations out there (mid 1970’s) about husbands abusing their wives by making them do all the work, I asked my wife to pull together a list of all of the things she thought would need to be done on a regular basis inside of the house. I would likewise put together a list – and then we could compare lists and negotiate a “you’re responsible for this stuff and I’m responsible for this other stuff” ordering of our life together.

    I’m still waiting for that list.

    From time to time I used to remind her that I was waiting. Her irritated response has always been – the idea of a list is stupid; if you see something that needs doing, just do it.

    I imagine any guys reading this will have the same general response to that that I have had every time she has said that. But I’ve never shared this thought with her, because in the making of that statement, she is proving that she doesn’t get it. So why waste my breath?

    Needs doing. Such a simple phrase. She has not a clue that the things that women think need doing are much different than the things that men think need doing. My request for us to both create a list of things we thought needed doing was an attempt to meet that truth head on and get past it. Combine her thinking with my thinking and create a more complete picture of what each of us was expecting.

    But, as I have said before – we don’t respond to what is. We respond to what is perceived. And my wife still does not perceive that the things I think need doing – although they might have a small overlap with the things she thinks need doing – in the main are quite different from what she thinks need doing. There are a great many things that I see that I think need doing that she is completely oblivious to – and has never displayed any interest in finding out whether I think different thoughts than she does. She has no doubt that I think just as she does – even after having been presented with evidence all these years that I don’t.

    So – Ame, you say you want a man who will make decisions and not default them all to you. I offer the previous few paragraphs as an example to support this thought: I imagine that your men have been making a multitude of decisions that you have never been aware of and probably never will be (a feature, not a bug; men and women are different and tend to different things). I understand the story of your first husband and I don’t mean to diminish the tragedy that that whole experience was for you and your daughters. But I still would bet that there were decisions he was making that you were not aware of – just because men and women think differently and tend to different things – even when it felt like you were the one making all the decisions.

    Ame, this is not personal so please don’t take it that way. It’s just that your comment triggered an avalanche of thoughts. And so I am using your comments as the example, since they are right here (or right above actually). The only thing that I can think of that would make comments such as the ones you made above make sense would be the issue of solipsism that is discussed in the manosphere. My experience with my wife and my four sisters and wives of cousins over the years is that women seem to think the only things that need doing are the things that directly affect them. And that makes sense. While they are at home with clutches of babies they need to be able to smell the spoiled milk from across the room and get to it before junior or junioretta gets to it. They don’t need to be thinking spatially and geographically in their head as they figure out how best to bring down the next mastedon so as to feed the village for a few more weeks. But it would be refreshing for men if women would ocassionally indicate that they know bringing down the mastedon actually is something that needs doing – just as much as vacuuming the bear rug needs doing. And the doing of it requires thinking and planning and making decisions that women don’t begin to comprehend – because that is not something that they normally tend to.

    Liked by 4 people

  13. RichardP says:

    A side note about something said above (and at Blooms as well): women need to emote from time to time. That also is a feature, not a bug (at least it is part of the built-in design). After a few years of using logic during these times in my marriage (in spite of knowing that I shouldn’t be using logic when my wife was being irrational) – I decided that my gift to my wife would be to just stand there and let her emote and vent. I understood that it was not personal, althought the words being vented were quite personal. Letting her vent (within reason; no throwing of things, etc.) worked better than attempting to point out to her how illogical she was being. After a while, sometimes a few days, the clouds would pass and the sunshine of her smile would shine again. This is something that Earl and others do not understand. A dead person cannot think properly. It is foolish to lable that a matter of the heart. A baby cannot think properly. It is foolish to lable that a matter of the heart. People develop lesions in their brain that increase or decrease the production of necessary chemicals and hormones and the ability to exert self-control is seriously compromised. The brain cannot be logical unless the chemistry of the brain is willing. And too often, it is not willing. As is the case during menstruation and menopause. When a woman is bleeding, the blood provides a quick path up into her abdominal cavity for bacteria and other nasties to travel. Getting brain fog for a few days that encourage the lady to stay put rather than chase after the men leaving to hunt the mastedone increases the liklihood that she will not pick up strange bugs that can quickly travel into her abdominal cavity and do her in. That process was designed in, much like your brain makes your muscles go completely limp during certain points of being asleep – to reduce the likelihood that you will get up and move around and injure yourself while asleep. That feature of disabling part of the body to protect another part (both in sleep and menstruation and menopause) was designed in. It is not simply a matter of the heart.

    But some issues are matters of the heart. It is difficult to determine when it is a design feature at work and when it is a matter of the heart at work. But that is part of what the job of ruling over … the weaker vessel entails, to mix two Biblical concepts together. Its all part of what building a life together outside of the Garden means. It is not easy, but it is necessary. It is part of what 1 Peter 3:7 means: … husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge (understanding), giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel … (kjv) There are issues that ARE matters of the heart. And then there are issues that are alluded to in 1 Peter 3:7. It isn’t possible to rule over someone wisely until you know the difference between the two.

    Liked by 3 people

  14. Wayne says:

    I have noticed that many women feel loved when they can draw some kind of an emotional response out of men, whether it be anger, joy, desire, or whatever. Shit testing is one way they do this. When a man has no emotional response, they feel like he is apathetic towards them, which is the opposite of love. This is why a lot of men who remain passive get kicked to the curb.
    From the men’s point of view, they just hate it when the emotional response she is pecking at is always something negative, like jealousy, anger, frustration, etc. Women don’t seem to realize that if she is always creating negative emotions, then the man will eventually wise up and shut her out. Men want the woman to create more positive emotions in the relationship. But why don’t women do that instead?

    Liked by 4 people

  15. Richard p all good and very profound stuff for us ladies to ponder. The other side, his side. Well said!

    @Wayne I do see women who really understand men get this, they will on purpose elicit positive emotions/response in a guy. It’s very easy for women to take the negative emotion route though, dangerously easy bc it’s maybe effective short term in getting a response but long term can really undermine his good will toward her. The positive approach does the opposite.

    Liked by 4 people

  16. Farm Boy says:

    After a few years of using logic during these times in my marriage

    Logic did not benefit Spock in marriage, for he was never married. I wonder if there was a relationship befween these facts…

    Liked by 2 people

  17. Farm Boy says:

    they figure out how best to bring down the next mastedon

    So what you are saying is that men made the mastodon extinct. And men are evil as a result

    Like

  18. Farm Boy says:

    When a man has no emotional response, they feel like he is apathetic towards them, which is the opposite of love. This is why a lot of men who remain passive get kicked to the curb.

    The “kicking to the curb” part is perhaps a feature and not a bug from a fellas perspective

    Liked by 1 person

  19. SFC Ton says:

    Women want to see emotion from men; fellas never make that emotion weak beta shit. Never display fear, worry etc, dribble out the verbal gushy shit. Show her anger, lust, aggression, drive/ ambition etc etc

    Liked by 3 people

  20. earl says:

    ‘Ame, you seem to give the answer: you said you wanted a man to make decisions and not default them all to me.’

    So Ame wants to submit but uses the hard and frustrating route to do it.

    Like

  21. earl says:

    ‘From the men’s point of view, they just hate it when the emotional response she is pecking at is always something negative, like jealousy, anger, frustration, etc. Women don’t seem to realize that if she is always creating negative emotions, then the man will eventually wise up and shut her out. Men want the woman to create more positive emotions in the relationship. But why don’t women do that instead?’

    Probably because in their mind it is easier to do things that make him mad than to do things that please him. The second one takes a little more work and effort out of her.

    Liked by 3 people

  22. Farm Boy says:

    It’s very easy for women to take the negative emotion route though, dangerously easy bc it’s maybe effective short term in getting a response but long term can really undermine his good will toward her.

    This should be memorized by young women.

    Furthermore, women need to take the long view. So very many do not

    Liked by 4 people

  23. earl says:

    I guess I don’t get it. I don’t get why menstruation or menopause gives women a get out of jail free card to disrepect their husband. I suppose that’s why Scripture says wives are to respect and obey their husbands except in cases when their body goes through menstruation.

    Does that also allow her to be disrespectful to everybody? They get the mensturation pass?

    I don’t mind if people vent because of work or because they are going through …when they make it personal, that’s the disrespectful part.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. mgtowhorseman says:

    Ton “Honestly, i really don’t believe that there is a cure.
    …….

    The cure is called the pimp hand”

    Or The Door.

    She starts being stupidly uppity just look at her calmly and say “Go Away.”
    (Only works if she knows you will go scorched earth.)

    [Go here one should]

    https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2018/04/01/a-rare-bird-indeed/

    Like

  25. mgtowhorseman says:

    “When [husbands] “give in” after a wife has whined and begged for a long time, [she] is prevented from having a good cry and releasing stress. The [wife] will soon find another reason to whine and beg, and this will continue until she is allowed an opportunity to have a full-blown cry. This is the main mechanism by which permissiveness can lead to [wives] who are demanding and obnoxious.’”

    Um didn’t our dads used to say “Deal with it or I Will give you something to cry about”?

    Alternatively…” You need a good cry? Well you’re fat too.” (Even if she is size zero)

    Liked by 1 person

  26. mgtowhorseman says:

    Bloom “but either way at least they solved the problem for their guy by filing for divorce and getting gone. Winning!”

    Thread winner!

    Liked by 1 person

  27. Cheque d'Out says:

    Nobody does capitalism like the socialists (at LabaLive which is dead)

    Liked by 2 people

  28. Cheque d'Out says:

    A cheap bottle of plonk should be say £4.50 in a supermarket…

    Like

  29. Cheque d'Out says:

    Voila! The labalife festival of Jezzterism

    Liked by 1 person

  30. mgtowhorseman says:

    Wayne and Richard, nice hits!

    We do similar with horses. Horse being fidgity, unresponsive…we Send them.

    Literally send them away, make them run away.
    It works off the nervous energy and shows them they either have to deal with the thing alone (horrible for a horse) or they can ask for help and get comfort from the trainer.
    Also reinforces the Two Golden rules of horses.

    “Make the wrong thing hard and the right thing easy”
    And
    “The one who makes the other move their feet is in charge.”

    Good stuff starts 3:30 in. Then watch at 7:20 when the horse gives in but cant help “shit testing” and gets sent.

    Only takes 7 minutes to get a big horse from dangerous to workable.

    Like

  31. Love says:

    Shit testing is biological for every woman. We constantly do it to ensure our partner is the strongest and we are safe. Is it possible to shit test with happy words and smiles? Perhaps, though I imagine it is very difficult. I would like to learn. If anyone has an example, please provide it.
    A woman does want to continuously elicit emotions out of her man. This is to prove he wants her. Trust me, I don’t enjoy feeling this way… But there is a need within me that comes to surface occasionally. I need to know I’m loved and protected.
    Wayne, yes we want any emotion (even anger) rather than silence. Ignoring is the best method to lose a woman.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. Cheque d'Out says:

    Like

  33. Hormones are not an excuse but to say that bc they “shouldn’t” play a role they won’t or don’t is unrealistic. Women themselves are often unaware hormones are driving their behavior until AFTER they pass. They can literally blind a gal to her own emotions. Not kidding. But yes I do agree a woman should do what she can to mitigate them even if she can’t control them 100%.

    Imagine feeling super, super annoyed. By everything. By anything. By things you even normally like. And then not knowing why exactly you are annoyed, you just ARE. It’s kinda like that.

    Some ancient cultures had a place women in this state could go to until it passed. I am sure it was drama at the hut but at least the rest of the tribe wasn’t subjected to it! 🙂

    Liked by 3 people

  34. earl says:

    ‘Ignoring is the best method to lose a woman.’

    And yet when a woman ignores a man…do they know that’s how they lose a man? If their goal is to not be with him anymore, I’d say yes

    Liked by 1 person

  35. Love says:

    In a wolf pack, isn’t the alpha continuously tested to ensure it is the strongest? Couldn’t a woman’s shit testing be considered nature’s quality control? I imagine it was a way to prove the hunters of the tribe were fit and able to provide.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. earl says:

    I feel like that when I’m tired. But I try to not take it out on other people because of how my body is feeling. It’s not their fault or concern I’m fatigued.

    Liked by 2 people

  37. Farm Boy says:

    ‘Ignoring is the best method to lose a woman.’

    If she is baiting him to get mad in order to cover for her craziness, then perhaps this is a best case scenario

    Liked by 1 person

  38. Wayne says:

    Love, I see what you’re saying. Women need emotional investment from men to feel cherished and valued. But getting it is largely out of their control (or so they think). Hence, the shit test.
    The problem is that a woman is caught in a dilemma between (1) being an attractive, sweet, respectful, kindhearted woman that a man would actually want to keep around, and (2) settling their own uncertainties (through shit testing) as to whether she wants to continue being around this particular man. It’s kind of like a push-pull game. It gets more complicated because both of these two extremes have their own unique sets of conundrums (too much to write here). Anyhow, women expect men to do the work of keeping the balance between these two extremes by flexing a dominant pimp hand. Hence, the stereotypical attraction for bad boys and AMOG’s.
    I get this, but there still seems to be something missing in terms of womens agency, and I believe faith and commitment are the answers to their questions of uncertainty. Yet many women continue to shit test long after marriage, which obviously is a lack of faith. It seems clear that faith and trust are central elements here. A lack of faith and trust, evidenced by continual shit tests, will start rocking the boat until it capsizes.
    To summarize this rambling reasoning, shit tests are evidence of a lack of faith.
    I’m sorry if this dry rationalization has offended any female readers. None intended.

    Liked by 3 people

  39. Farm Boy says:

    Couldn’t a woman’s shit testing be considered nature’s quality control?

    Why yes it could be. Women who go overboard with the shit testing signal themselves as unworthy partners.

    You and your partner are supposed to be pulling in the same direction. It is not much of a partnership if one partner is shitting on everything for the sake of shitting on everything

    Liked by 6 people

  40. Farm Boy says:

    Men view shit testing as needless silliness that must be overcome, or not.

    That is, if he is MGTOW, this would not be a problem

    Liked by 3 people

  41. “Ignoring is the best method to lose a woman.“

    Actually I have seen lots of women cling to a guy who ignores them. And I have also seen women be repulsed by guys who fawn over them. Ideally there is somewhere in the middle, not ignored and not dawned over.

    I think shit tests are increased under current conditions where women have been taught to demand what they need and men have been taught to cave to demands. Perhaps that’s the problem? Maybe before women didn’t test so much and men didn’t cave so much so testing wasn’t as needed?

    Liked by 2 people

  42. Add to the confusion that women THINK they want to win the shit test but actually if she does she feels less secure/settled. So in reality she wants to lose the shit test. But losing is an ego hit so it goes around and around, destructively.

    Liked by 4 people

  43. Wayne says:

    “Men view shit testing as needless silliness that must be overcome, or not.”

    Other men (such as myself) view shit testing as a heinously disrespectful lack of faith and dignity. Women who shit test are immediately relegated to my shit list.

    “Women who go overboard with the shit testing signal themselves as unworthy partners.”

    A-men, and The-man!

    Liked by 4 people

  44. earl says:

    Woman’s shit testing is just rationalizing disrespect.

    Supporting your man builds him up…shit testing at best irritates him and at worst tears him down.

    Most henpecked guys get to the point they give up. That’s when they check out. You lost women.

    Like

  45. Love says:

    Shit testing does not mean being disrespectful.
    It could be as simple as mentioning a male coworker who has been so helpful … To something blatant as telling your spouse your married friends just bought a newly built home bigger than yours. I am sure the women of the past shit tested like the latter.
    Those 2 tests are examples of how she wants him to prove he desires her and will not let another man outdo him. In neither scenario is she rude or offensive.

    Like

  46. earl says:

    Love doesnt get it.

    You are tearing down the guy, not building him up. He doesn’t need your nagging to be great.

    Liked by 3 people

  47. Cheque d'Out says:

    Father Ted visits LabaLive

    Liked by 1 person

  48. earl says:

    Not only that the women who shit test are also easily offended if you act in a way contrary to what they’d hope would happen and leave anyway. It’s detrimental to them in the long run and why they cant see that and take good advice I cant fathom why. But once again I go back to it’s a matter of their heart.

    Like

  49. Love says:

    Earl, is he that sensitive that those 2 examples tear him down and destroy his worth? She didn’t tell him he is less than the man at work or that he is not able to purchase a new home. Isn’t competition and challenge good for a man? Mentioning something once is not nagging.

    Like

  50. earl says:

    Yeah men compete and challenge with other men. You’re not a man.

    Like

  51. Love says:

    Women do NOT shit test for the man to compete with her. Women shit test for him to compete with other men and win.

    Liked by 2 people

  52. earl says:

    We don’t need that, Love. That’s what I keep trying to tell you. And better yet when you support him especially when he’s briefly down that’s what makes him better at coming back to compete with other men and win.

    Try it sometime. I’d suggest every woman try it sometime. I’ve seen more men get farther in life with supportive wives than shit testing wives.

    Liked by 2 people

  53. earl says:

    Does this discussion give a little more proof of my heart theory now?

    Like

  54. Farm Boy says:

    Most henpecked guys get to the point they give up. That’s when they check out. You lost, women.

    Yep. That is how goes with guys. At least in the modern day. So driving the process forward is a lose-lose proposition

    Liked by 2 people

  55. Love, I am not sure that would be the best way to achieve the goals. Saying another man has a bigger house is somewhat emasculating, I would think. Might go over about as well as a man talking about how a gal he knows at work is sweeter, or has a bigger chest. 😉

    Liked by 5 people

  56. Farm Boy says:

    For a fella to put up with shit tests, the woman would have to be worth a good bit. As Horseman points out, often the competition for men is with “nothing”. The modern world provides enough for a man to do/enjoy without a woman. A shit testing woman has to win against that.

    Liked by 1 person

  57. Some of what I am saying I learned the hard way. I did not know it, but I used to shit test my ex-husband a lot. And especially so when I was hormonal. I was young and stupid yes, but it still did damage. Instead of leading anywhere productive, the shit testing just drove a wedge between us. I wish now I had practiced more gratitude and supportive and had been less critical or demanding. I can see now how foolish of an approach it was, there are much better ways to go about it.

    Liked by 4 people

  58. Farm Boy says:

    Saying another man has a bigger house is somewhat emasculating

    I would dump a woman who did that in a heart-beat. This would be taken as a pre-cursor to ever escalating demands. To buy all sorts of stuff for the sake of conspicuous consumption. I would warn other men away.

    Liked by 5 people

  59. Farm Boy says:

    Somehow the concept of “team” seems to be missing from this thread

    Liked by 2 people

  60. Also @ Love, if I remember correct you are not in the US? So some of it may be cultural, too.

    Like

  61. SFC Ton says:

    Shit testing as quality control? Fucking awesome right there

    But if she is drop them shit test bombs, what she is saying is your frame is weak sauce.

    Liked by 1 person

  62. SFC Ton says:

    The more a woman feels valued and cherished the more she will shit on the simp who is making her feel that way.

    Liked by 1 person

  63. SFC Ton says:

    there still seems to be something missing in terms of womens agency,
    …..

    LOL they are miss8ng agencey. Things are a lot easier once you realize a mature woman is really only about 16 emotionally

    Liked by 2 people

  64. Love says:

    In no way am I suggesting that a woman should kick a man when he is down on his luck. Of course, supporting and respecting him is essential.
    I think it is naieve to think women of the past didn’t shit test. They did … If not more because their livelihood depended on his success.
    It has been going on since the dawn of time.
    Women manipulate. Regardless of race or ethnicity.

    Liked by 3 people

  65. SFC Ton says:

    My guess is men had better frame so there were likely less shit tests.

    And…. back when the nature of work was more physical and life more difficult, a man’s merit was tested by the outside world and women knew this deep down in their vagina ( ie decision maker) so again, less shit tests

    And ultimately a man could use his pimp hand. Which women love and reduces shit tests

    Liked by 2 people

  66. mgtowhorseman says:

    Love

    “Wayne, yes we want any emotion (even anger) rather than silence. Ignoring is the best method to TEACH a woman”.

    There. Fixed it for you.

    Just be warned. Men hate useless bullshit for no reason.
    Every Single Time you shit test and he knows it for such, its one more step towards ” Do I Really Need This Shit?”

    Why not just ask for a hug? Or give him a kiss? You know, things that keep you safe AND make him feel wanted?

    “I want to feel safe, so I am a Bitch to the one who protects me!”

    Womenz really are fucking stupid!
    Or you just Never consider his feelings!

    Any woman, I dare you to justify a shit test by considering his feelings!
    I DARE YOU!

    Liked by 4 people

  67. Farm Boy says:

    In the developed western world, the default assumption is that a woman are unmarriagble, at least by an aware fella. So when he is with a women, if she displays any hints of sluttiness, materialism, much selfishness, etc., then it is time to throw her back in the pond.

    In other parts of the world, women might not be so broken. Though Feminists are working hard to “fix” this

    Liked by 4 people

  68. mgtowhorseman says:

    “A woman does want to continuously elicit emotions out of her man. This is to prove he wants her.”

    So rather than elicit love, comfort, companionship, grace….good emotions

    You elicit anger, abandonment, resentment or just interruption.

    Womenz is stupid!!

    Liked by 3 people

  69. mgtowhorseman says:

    Wayne
    “Other men (such as myself) view shit testing as a heinously disrespectful lack of faith and dignity. Women who shit test are immediately relegated to my shit list.”

    Earl
    “Woman’s shit testing is just rationalizing disrespect.

    Supporting your man builds him up…shit testing at best irritates him and at worst tears him down.”

    Ton
    “LOL they are miss8ng agencey. Things are a lot easier once you realize a mature woman is really only about 16 emotionally”

    Notice a theme here of how men react to shit tests if they recognize them.

    There is NO good reason for them.

    P.s.
    Once a woman proves worthy, to him, he has chosen her. Period. Forever.
    He knows his decision.

    Why do you need to prove Your choice to yourself?
    Shit tests are really about Your insecurity about Your decision making!

    Liked by 3 people

  70. mgtowhorseman says:

    Love

    Jesus fucking christ!!

    ‘Women do NOT shit test for the man to compete with her. Women shit test for him to compete with other men and win.”

    Bullshit comment of ….well forever.
    You!!! Are unsure of him!
    You!! Are unfaithful to Your Choice
    You!! Are really comparing him to new guys or events AFTER you joined to him!!

    You Are Looking To Monkey Branch constantly.

    Does he look at other women?
    Does he say “well Joan lost 30 pounds”.

    I would not give you the time of day!!

    You Are Admitting he has to compete every fucking day of his life!!!

    In his mind….
    If you are with him in a LTR He Has Already Won!! Forever. Period.

    Like

  71. earl says:

    ‘Why not just ask for a hug? Or give him a kiss? You know, things that keep you safe AND make him feel wanted?’

    Agreed…why doesn’t a woman emotionally test a man by initiating affection instead of initiating nagging or bitchiness? He’d have to be pretty cold to reject affection.

    It’s no wonder a lot of men have to initiate the affection all the time which I don’t think we should…most wimminz are cold.

    Liked by 2 people

  72. mgtowhorseman says:

    You are not sure if you want me after you gave your word to me?

    Go!
    Leave!
    Bu bye!

    Faithless bitch!

    Liked by 1 person

  73. earl says:

    @Love

    It’s pretty simple…you can either support the man you chose and he’ll cherish you or shit test him and tear him down which will make either him or you eventually leave. I don’t care if other women have done it in the past, other women in the past have supported their man too. Look at the results of both paths. This is the empowerment you ladies have.

    What we are trying to teach you is self-awareness. Every woman has the penchant to rebel from their lawful male authority and it started with Eve. If you know this, then you can address it when these feelings come up. My good buddy’s wife admitted she has this tendency to rebel and rather than blame or test her husband she’s trying her best to stop it in her before she allows it to happen.

    Liked by 2 people

  74. Farm Boy says:

    I did not have any concept of shit tests as I reached adulthood. My Mom never did this. Their marriage worked.

    Liked by 2 people

  75. earl says:

    And I find the older I get, the easier it is to leave when they can’t self-control themselves. It’s a lot harder to justify leaving when they are mature and affectionate.

    Like

  76. earl says:

    ‘You are not sure if you want me after you gave your word to me?’

    Welcome to marriage in the 21st century.

    Liked by 2 people

  77. Cheque d'Out says:

    Cill should get it, not sure about anyone else. It’s sophisticated…honest.

    [The UK has such reptiles not
    Confused I would be]

    Liked by 1 person

  78. Yoda says:

    Gratuitous image time it would be

    Liked by 4 people

  79. Ame says:

    Richard – interesting … will come back to this later when i have more time.

    Like

  80. Ame says:

    shit tests are evidence of a lack of faith.

    interesting thought. i’ll try to come back to this later when i have more time.

    Like

  81. Ame says:

    The more a woman feels valued and cherished the more she will shit on the simp who is making her feel that way.

    pondering . . .

    Like

  82. Ame says:

    mgtowhorseman

    “A woman does want to continuously elicit emotions out of her man. This is to prove he wants her.”

    So rather than elicit love, comfort, companionship, grace….good emotions

    You elicit anger, abandonment, resentment or just interruption.

    Womenz is stupid!!

    it is often said that children just want their parent’s attention and will do anything to get it. some children learn that only negative behavior gets the attention of their parents, so they develop habits of seeking attention with negative behavior. there’s lots out there on this … a quick search showed up lots of stuff – apparently it seems to be called “Attention-Seekers” for children right now.

    anyway … this comment made me think of that. Ton, and some other men, have often said you need to relate to women as children. doing so puts a different light on all this.

    Liked by 2 people

  83. mgtowhorseman says:

    “some children learn that only negative behavior gets the attention of their parents, so they develop habits of seeking attention with negative behavior”

    Yes this is true when they HAVE TRIED being good and the parent is inattentive.

    BUT!

    All of you females have said your default is to use negative behaviour i.e nagging, bitching, comparing to other men…

    Instead of being good i.e. asking for a hug, giving a kiss?
    Any guy would be attentive to that.

    Your default setting is negative…..and then to rationalize its backfiring!

    Ame recently said something like “there are still some good ones out there.”
    Yeah…….about that….

    Like

  84. mgtowhorseman says:

    Yes Ames and Bloom and Steph are good ones but even they cannot help but do this….

    Liked by 1 person

  85. Love says:

    Interesting how you all assume ‘shit testing’ (or what I call female manipulation) is done in a bitchy disrespectful unsupportive manner. Women of the past would make their husband feel like a king … But they helped drive his decisions and success. And they got something out of it. They did it with class. No name calling or shrew-like behavior. Maybe my definition of shit testing is different than yours.

    Liked by 1 person

  86. Farm Boy says:

    Interesting how you all assume ‘shit testing’ (or what I call female manipulation) is done in a bitchy disrespectful unsupportive manner.

    That is how it is done in developed western countries. Women are empowered to do this. So they do

    Furthermore, that is why guys in the know are looking for this in women. If they find it, it does not bode well

    Liked by 1 person

  87. earl says:

    Shit test is the negative connotation of women’s manipulation.

    How about supportive test?

    Liked by 1 person

  88. Love says:

    Supportive testing, It is.

    [Wonder if from Degoba she is I do]

    Liked by 1 person

  89. SFC Ton says:

    Supportive testing? Yeah I want my dog to learn how to deal me ace’s from the bottom of the deck too

    Liked by 1 person

  90. SFC Ton says:

    why doesn’t a woman emotionally test a man by initiating affection instead of initiating nagging or bitchiness? He’d have to be pretty cold to reject affection.
    ……

    Because affection has shit to do with survival and shit tests are about her reassuring herself her man is her best odds of survival. Shutting her shit down confirms his strength. Strength = survival. Hugs have fuck all to do with surviving the next major shit storm

    Stop thinking of women as anything but biologically programmed robots who’s only programming is ensuring her own survival.

    Liked by 4 people

  91. Love says:

    Hm. I didn’t write the ‘Degoba’ comment in my last post. I have no idea what it is, so I had to look it up.
    Nope. Not me. Quite the opposite. But you will never have the privilege to know.

    Liked by 1 person

  92. Today I was given a really big compliment. A friend of mine said her hubby wanted to match make me with his best friend of many years. I said I was flattered but reminded her I am in a relationship already (bc we are long distance I think people forget I am not single.) so while I am not available and won’t pursue it of course, I still thought it was pretty cool her hubby (who is a great guy) would think me worthy of vouching for to his best friend! I consider it a huge compliment 🤗

    Liked by 1 person

  93. Stephanie says:

    “In a wolf pack, isn’t the alpha continuously tested to ensure it is the strongest? Couldn’t a woman’s shit testing be considered nature’s quality control? I imagine it was a way to prove the hunters of the tribe were fit and able to provide.”

    Love, I think in wolf packs, alpha males are tested by the other males in the group – and yes, it is frequently… but to say that females do that – no I don’t think so.

    With human beings 🙂 men DO test each other all the time and tease each other in harsh ways… but if a WOMAN did that to her man, it just wouldn’t go over well at all. Hope that makes sense.

    Liked by 2 people

  94. Stephanie says:

    “Men view shit testing as needless silliness that must be overcome, or not.”

    What Farm Boy said. From what I’ve seen at least with my own husband and watching my dad and brother handle things… the more a woman shit-tests, the worse it is for her relationships.

    I don’t think it’s a good “quality control” thing. I think it just annoys men and makes the relationship harder.

    Liked by 3 people

  95. Stephanie says:

    “It could be as simple as mentioning a male coworker who has been so helpful … To something blatant as telling your spouse your married friends just bought a newly built home bigger than yours. I am sure the women of the past shit tested like the latter.
    Those 2 tests are examples of how she wants him to prove he desires her and will not let another man outdo him. In neither scenario is she rude or offensive.”

    ^Love, not trying to be offensive to you personally here, but this is very very wrong. Men don’t view those things as “helpful” or “respectful” or anything remotely positive.

    1) You should never compare your man to some other man you think is better in any kind of way. It’s just really disrespectful and emasculating to them. I’m sure women of the past did this, just like some very unwise women do this now, but men absolutely hate that and it causes them to not feel as in love with the woman who is saying those things.

    2) Making him feel less than or like he’s not making enough money or buying you enough nice (or bigger) things is very very disrespectful. Even if it somehow **does** make him want to get better stuff, he will resent you for it and despise being compared to other men more “successful” in those ways.

    Liked by 3 people

  96. Stephanie says:

    In general… shit tests don’t seem like good things in a long term relationship or marriage.

    They seem natural for other men to do to each other, to an extent of their personality or environment maybe, but it’s not a “natural” thing for women to do this to men. Masculine women seem to “shit-test” men more than feminine women, so therefore… if you want to be **attractive** you know, as a **woman**, then you shouldn’t shit test.

    By definition, a “shit test” seems to mean “giving someone shit or messing with their head.” Men do this to each other all the time – testing their inner strength or playing together. But when a man is coming home to his woman, he DOES NOT WANT to be given “shit.” He wants to relax, have good sex, be well fed (lol it sounds so simple). None of those things call for her “giving him shit” about stuff and making it a competition.

    So with that line of thought… giving your man “shit” about whatever is going on in his or your life, makes for a rocky relationship because that’s not what he wants a woman to act like around him. He just got done with a day around men like that, having to constantly prove his worth and value and inner strength possibly.

    He doesn’t want to have to come home and feel attacked by the person who’s supposed to accept him and admire him as he is.

    Liked by 1 person

  97. Yoda says:

    Famous throughout multiple galaxies I am
    And Love has heard of me not

    Liked by 3 people

  98. Yoda says:

    Because affection has shit to do with survival

    Not necessarily true this would be.
    If affectionate she is,
    stick around and provide for the kids he might

    Liked by 3 people

  99. @Love when I said it may be cultural I hope that didn’t come across the wrong way. I was thinking of my favorite uncle, who is married to my moms sister and is Chinese raised in Hong Kong. From what he has described to me what you said would not be considered unusual, or as an afront. So that’s what I was trying to say, different cultures see things differently and sometimes things get lost in translation. Even after living in the US for over 40 years I know many ways Americans think or act make no sense to my uncle. He has helped me see the world thru a different lens and there are many wonderful things about the Chinese culture (traditional culture, not talking current govt. or politics) that literally have no lateral in American culture. It’s very interesting how differently he can see things and when he explains his view it often makes a lot of sense in a way I never otherwise would have considered!

    Liked by 3 people

  100. earl says:

    ‘Yeah I want my dog to learn how to deal me ace’s from the bottom of the deck too’

    Then get to teaching the dog.

    Like

  101. Farm Boy says:

    In Japan, one has the herbivore men. They reject getting married and having their wives browbeat them into more ambition. Better to stay in your room and play video games. Even with the intense cultural shaming that these men receive for doing this, women still can’t compete

    Liked by 2 people

  102. Farm Boy says:

    In China, there is now unrestrained hypergamy. Women demanding enormous conditions for potential suitors to meet. Not a pretty picture

    Like

  103. And also my uncle was not raised in China or in the era today. Bc of the one child policy there is now wi China a large imbalance in the male to female ratio in the young adults. This is causing lots of problems but that’s more a govt. created thing than a culture thing. In traditional Chinese culture the male and female roles are more yin and yang, with checks and balances managing the opposing male and female imperatives. There is nearly no divorce culture, for example. There’s also not this individual driven culture. It’s difficult to explain bc it’s all interconnected in a way that works there but would not here.

    Liked by 1 person

  104. Or did work there, prior to govt. meddling. Not sure what’s going to happen now. But Chinese culture is the oldest continuous civilization on the planet so chances are the current situation is a road bump. Not good for the generation coming of age but over time it will even back out. Hopefully!

    Liked by 1 person

  105. Farm Boy says:

    Not good for the generation coming of age but over time it will even back out

    Maybe. Who knows?

    Like

  106. mgtowhorseman says:

    Ton “Stop thinking of women as anything but biologically programmed robots who’s only programming is ensuring her own survival.”

    Nails it.

    A shit test screams “Ensure HER OWN Survival”.

    Operative word…HER!

    SELFISHNESS!

    Today no woman is truly in danger, needing survival. So they scream self centredness, insecurity, can I do better!!!

    So starting now all men should ask their women every day

    When you gonna lose 30 pounds like joan?
    Can you make me roast beef sandwiches like the girls at work?
    Philis gives her husband blow jobs daily!
    Yes, yes I was looking and she has a better ass than you, course she is 25.
    Yes I would bang her, and maybe marry her?

    Oh I am just helping you improve!

    Stop it? Why! I just need to feel loved!
    And I can’t help my testosterone!!

    Yes, you are competing with every woman out there!
    And competing with Nothing!

    If you can question your faithfulness so can I!

    What you don’t feel secure!!

    Boo hoo! You started it!

    Anyone UNCLEAR on the fucking point!!???

    Liked by 3 people

  107. mgtowhorseman says:

    Mrs KNOWS I will pull the trigger!

    So when she gets insecure…She Says “I need you” and gets a hug.

    She starts shit testing I just look and say “You Done?”

    Liked by 1 person

  108. mgtowhorseman says:

    Cause if she aint done, I Am

    Like

  109. SFC Ton says:

    Mrs KNOWS I will pull the trigger!

    So when she gets insecure…She Says “I need you” and gets a hug.
    ………

    Dread game for the win

    Vs….. The bitchy whiny of some supposdley red pill men wanting women to be things they are not

    Like

  110. earl says:

    ‘Shutting her shit down confirms his strength.’

    Her having this just confirms her rebellion. Can you shut down rebellion, Ton?

    ‘Stop thinking of women as anything but biologically programmed robots who’s only programming is ensuring her own survival.’

    Biologically programmed robots, huh?

    Then what does that make you?

    Like

  111. SFC Ton says:

    Of course I can Earl. I do it so well we have improved 4 out 5 marriages on our street.

    Like

  112. Cill says:

    I have seen women shit test as a form of security, to confirm the constancy of his resolve and strength.

    Liked by 1 person

  113. Cill says:

    Hey me old garden gate, they still have Punch and Judy shows in your neck of the woods?

    Liked by 1 person

  114. earl says:

    ‘ I do it so well we have improved 4 out 5 marriages on our street.’

    Ok, what methods did you do to improve the said marriages? The more wisdom we get out there that turns wife’s rebellion into obedience to her husband the better.

    Like

  115. earl says:

    And what was it about the other marriage that didn’t turn around?

    Like

  116. Cill says:

    Hey Spawny, 3:30 pm + 3:31 pm + 3:33 pm + 4:03 pm : great entertainment value for us plebs down under. Keep it coming.

    What a splendid idea of Jerry’s! Would it be fair to say Labour Live was a… um… err… miserable failure?

    Another Sir Arthur Streeb-Greebling, Jerry is.

    Liked by 1 person

  117. earl says:

    ‘I have seen women shit test as a form of security, to confirm the constancy of his resolve and strength.’

    And to Wayne’s point…that shows a big lack of faith on her part.

    Are we to test God to confim God’s resolve and strength? God is the one who created the heavens and the earth…who are we to test Him?

    Like

  118. SFC Ton says:

    We aren’t God Earl and we are required to do some spiritual testing and more

    1 John 4:1 English Standard Version (ESV)
    Test the Spirits
    4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

    Like

  119. Cill says:

    I don’t know about God, but women seem to fulfill some need out of shit testing. You want to know how it can be made to work, which is fair enough. In the cases I’m talking about, she gets what she expects. And the man knows it. It’s all over in a matter of seconds and everything is okay.

    Like

  120. SFC Ton says:

    Nothing was done purposely or deliberately so I don’t think I can answer your question in any helpful manner but what we did do is shift the Overtone window. So to speak and people are drawn to strength. We have become the example of strength, health, family etc etc

    Liked by 1 person

  121. earl says:

    ‘We aren’t God Earl and we are required to do some spiritual testing and more ‘

    Alright…here’s a good spiritual test.

    ‘Your beauty should not come from outward adornment such as braided hair or gold jewelry or fine clothes, but from the inner disposition of your heart, the unfading beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in God’s sight. For this is how the holy women of the past adorned themselves. They put their hope in God and were subject to their husbands, just as Sarah obeyed Abraham and called him lord. You are her children if you do what is right and refuse to quiver in fear. ‘ 1 Peter 3: 3-6

    Seems to me shit testing your husband is a lack of faith in God.

    Liked by 1 person

  122. SFC Ton says:

    We all lack faith. Which is why we can’t throw mountains into the sea

    Like

  123. earl says:

    “Have faith in God,” Jesus said to them. “Truly I tell you that if anyone says to this mountain, ‘Be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and has no doubt in his heart but believes that it will happen, it will be done for him. ‘

    Why do we lack faith in God?

    Like

  124. earl says:

    It’s almost like something changed there.

    Like

  125. Cill says:

    A woman boated all this way to arrive here at 6 a.m. this morning, and make me a great breakfast. She braved the dark. It’s dark down under. We are approaching the Winter Solstice. Fine, clear, weather with clean, still air.
    Past 7 a.m. and time for me to get going.

    Liked by 1 person

  126. earl says:

    Funny…we live in a society where feminism ’empowered’ women to have careers and money to spend on what they want, yet it’s the white man that causes feminist bookstores to go out of business. Don’t you just hate it when the free market screws feminism up?

    Liked by 1 person

  127. earl says:

    ‘Is equality ruining your marriage?’

    http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/09/15/is-equality-ruining-your-marriage.html

    ‘New research at the University of Illinois examined data on nearly 1,500 men and 1,800 women between the ages of 52 and 60 and found that couples who (rebel against how God set things up) resist traditional gender roles, or who shoot for a so-called equal marriage, are less happy than those who (are obedient) swim with the tide.’

    ‘Researchers Karen Kramer and Sunjin Pak found that when women’s paychecks increased, they reported more symptoms of depression (women make babies not money). But the opposite effect was found in men: their psychological well-being was highest when they were the primary wage-earners.’

    ….

    ‘Men and women are not interchangeable beings, pure and simple. They may both be capable of being breadwinners and full-time parents, but that doesn’t mean they want to perform these tasks with equal fervor. Typically speaking, a man’s identity is inextricably linked to his paycheck. A woman’s is linked to her children. That this does not hold true for every woman and every man doesn’t change the fact that what drives most women is different from what drives most men.’

    The more we try to change things the more we find out we should stick with what God gave us. Men’s mission in life is to work, sweat, and earn our bread…women’s role in life is to bear children and submit to her husband.

    Like

  128. Yoda says:

    Wonder if busy with other things he should be.
    Perhaps violent crime important it is

    There are too many Wikipedia pages devoted to men, says London Mayor Sadiq Khan.

    In an op-ed published Tuesday in The Telegraph, Mr. Khan called for an “edit-a-thon” to address the gender imbalance on the popular online encyclopedia. He said just 17 percent of Wikipedia biographies are about women.

    https://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jun/12/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-calls-wikipedia-editors-cl/

    Like

  129. Wayne says:

    “Interesting how you all assume ‘shit testing’ (or what I call female manipulation) is done in a bitchy, disrespectful, unsupportive manner.

    That’s why it is called a shit test. If it were somehow supportive, it wouldn’t be called shit.
    Women do have a lot of power over men through ‘female manipulation’, but there are constructive and mutually enjoyable ways to do it. (I like to call that feminine skill, ‘honeycraft’ so as to differentiate it from control games, shit tests, and other static noise, which men always try to ‘tune out’.)
    Perhaps we should have defined ‘shit test’ up front. Sorry about that.

    Liked by 5 people

  130. Ame says:

    Richard –

    @Ame said: it makes me feel safe, protected, loved, and secure.

    Q1: Have you ever thought once about how it makes him feel?

    actually … i do wonder how it makes him feel, and i ask him sometimes. i think there are some people, men and women, who are more able to articulate their thoughts and actions and those of others. some know things but are not able to articulate them. that’s one of the reasons i’m so drawn to you men out here – you are often able to articulate things that other men are not. i learn a LOT from you, and you all make me a better wife, mom, and woman.

    i also often read novels authored by men because i’m very curious and interested in how men think and how that translates into how they act.

    i recently finished a novel series authored by a man who was obviously feminized. i looked him up and learned his wife is in some high position in a university … that explained it. he obviously panders to her. i enjoyed the stories so i finished the series … but was continuously shocked at how feminized he was.

    – – –

    @Ame said: i hate that i can control a good number of men. i just wanted a man to be able to stand up to me and put me in my placeQ2: Why?? Why not just control your urge to control men?

    i do. all the time. it’s unseemly to control people and not beneficial. knowing i can and actually doing so are two different things.

    – – –

    Why not put yourself in your place? Why make others do it?

    i do. all the time. it’s my responsibility to do so.

    – – –

    These are rhetorical questions. But they are questions that many men would like a definitive answer to. You are not alone in thinking that way and behaving that way. That thinking and behavior has baffled most every man I have ever known.

    when pondering your questions i realize that i cannot speak on behalf of all women, i can only speak for myself. idk why women take advantage of people and especially men and especially their own man. i could theorize, but it would only be theory.

    this also brings into question being polite, generous, thoughtful, etc. i know when doing so it brings out the best in people and causes them to respond positively to you (in general) which, to some people, can be seen as a form of manipulation. my first husband certainly thought this way and was always looking at ‘why’ i was being kind assuming i was trying to manipulate and control him. it made my head spin sometimes. i spent a lot of time in prayer asking God to help me so i could be pure in how i presented myself to him. it didn’t change his reactions to me, but it kept my conscience clear before God.

    having said all that, there are times to use good things to get a desired result. i think of Queen Esther who held two banquets for her husband and his evil sidekick before presenting her request (Esther 5+). even you men have said often that a good mean and a generous heart and kind words go a long way with a man 🙂

    – – –

    And then, Ame, you seem to give the answer: you said you wanted a man to make decisions and not default them all to me.

    That is a useful thing to read, because it gives your other comments a perspective that is missing without that comment just quoted.

    this is a difficult thing to explain, and i hesitated to write it to begin with for that very reason.

    one simple example … a guy i dated in high school never made the decision on what we would do on our dates. i’d get in the car, and he’d ask, “What do you want to do?” so i’d ask him, “What do *you* want to do?” he would keep turning it back to me. it became wearisome. by not making the decision on what to do on our dates, he defaulted it to me.

    – – –

    (i keep getting interrupted with life 🙂 … i’ll post this and come back to the rest later)

    Like

  131. earl says:

    ‘one simple example … a guy i dated in high school never made the decision on what we would do on our dates. i’d get in the car, and he’d ask, “What do you want to do?” so i’d ask him, “What do *you* want to do?” he would keep turning it back to me. it became wearisome. by not making the decision on what to do on our dates, he defaulted it to me. ‘

    But that’s not a shit test…that’s an indecisive man. If a man shows you he’s decisive, why shit test him?

    Like

  132. SFC Ton says:

    I am stealing that honeycraft line. The Girls do those sort of things all the time. It’s clear they are doing it, i still tell them no 70% of the time and we all three enjoy The Game

    Mostly what I get from the men here is women should be different then the way the Almighty made them. That would be like me bitching about my American Pit Bull Terriers acting like the high prey drive game dogs they were bred to be

    Liked by 2 people

  133. Farm Boy says:

    Mostly what I get from the men here is women should be different then the way the Almighty made them.

    Yes, that is the gist of it. My Mom did what the Bible told her to do, not what her tingle-meter was saying or let her shit-generator run free. She was consequently happy, my Dad was happy and the kids were all successful

    Liked by 1 person

  134. SFC Ton says:

    Yeah. And so what? How common was that when you were young? I’m 50. My childhood wasnt like that. And how is that relevant to what we are dealing with now? We cant go backwards. We can only go forward and to do that by dealing with the tactical reality on the ground.

    This bitching about how things were and how they should be does men 0.0 good. And probably dries up vaginas for 100’s of miles. Hell probably dries vaginas that would otherwise be sympathetic toward most typical men

    Liked by 2 people

  135. earl says:

    ‘Mostly what I get from the men here is women should be different then the way the Almighty made them. ‘

    Women should be different from the way Eve made them. The Almighty made them to be our helpmate.

    You do know the difference between the way God made them and the way they made themselves?

    Like

  136. earl says:

    ‘My childhood wasnt like that.’

    See your mother had a lot of influence on you. As did FB and mine. We’ve seen what women are capable of when they try to follow God’s will and not Eve’s.

    Liked by 1 person

  137. Wayne says:

    “Mostly what I get from the men here is women should be different then the way the Almighty made them.”

    The Almighty made humans (not only women) with two natures, and then gave us the choice of which one to conform to. The feral, ‘flesh’ nature, or the regenerated identity in Christ. Earl just described this in a colloquial form,

    “Women should be different from the way Eve made them. The Almighty made them to be our helpmate.”

    Liked by 1 person

  138. Ame says:

    Earl –
    ‘one simple example … a guy i dated in high school never made the decision on what we would do on our dates. i’d get in the car, and he’d ask, “What do you want to do?” so i’d ask him, “What do *you* want to do?” he would keep turning it back to me. it became wearisome. by not making the decision on what to do on our dates, he defaulted it to me. ‘

    But that’s not a shit test…that’s an indecisive man. If a man shows you he’s decisive, why shit test him?

    i was giving an example of how men sometimes default decisions to women, not an example of shit testing.

    i also think that the definition and perception of ‘shit tests’ differ from person to person depending on their personal experience – meaning our experiences color our perception of what a shit test looks like. i imagine there are some that fall into the “This Is Definitely A Shit Test” category, but i think there are others that are more ambiguous. and that is where i hesitate to comment b/c my comments will not be perceived in the way intended.

    Liked by 1 person

  139. Ame says:

    an example of different perceptions of shit tests:

    Sweet Stephanie has said shit tests are wrong and women should not shit test their husbands. she also said once (and she can correct me if i remember incorrectly 😉 ) that her husband has come in sometimes, seen her on her laptop, closed it, and walked away with it. she said she loves it when he does this.

    i see that as her shit testing him … what will he do if she spends too much time on the computer? well, he ends it. firmly. and she adores him for it – it lights up her tingles and she can’t wait to bed him for it.

    Like

  140. SFC Ton says:

    And once again, so what?

    Liked by 1 person

  141. Stephanie says:

    “i also think that the definition and perception of ‘shit tests’ differ from person to person depending on their personal experience – meaning our experiences color our perception of what a shit test looks like. i imagine there are some that fall into the “This Is Definitely A Shit Test” category, but i think there are others that are more ambiguous. and that is where i hesitate to comment b/c my comments will not be perceived in the way intended.”
    ____________________________________________________________________

    LOL Ame yes!!! You recalled it 100%!!! I guess that is a passive shit test – because it only happens if I’m online longer than I said I’d be, or when he’s waiting for me to do something he decided we should be doing. Thank goodness it doesn’t happen that often, and I don’t resist him setting his boundary or complain about it (give him more “shit” about it).

    I think maybe we all have different perceptions of what shit-testing is. I always thought (from old manosphere stuff) that it was a bad thing (and more of an aggressive thing), but of course I could be wrong.

    To me… a more obvious shit test would be him doing that (taking the computer because I’m not doing what I said I’d do or procrastinating) and then me confronting him and saying, “How dare you try to control me!! You’re not the boss of me!!! You’re sleeping on the couch tonight!!!” And then me trying to get the computer back or something.

    A shit test usually (I thought) involves her pushing his boundaries, and challenging him sometimes even in an aggressive way to start a fight.

    Liked by 1 person

  142. Stephanie says:

    “Sweet Stephanie has said shit tests are wrong and women should not shit test their husbands. she also said once (and she can correct me if i remember incorrectly 😉 ) that her husband has come in sometimes, seen her on her laptop, closed it, and walked away with it. she said she loves it when he does this”

    ^Maybe I missed part of this I should address.

    He **is** sometimes annoyed by this though, which is bad for our marriage for me to annoy him. It’d be much better that I just listen the first time so he doesn’t have to force the issue – which I don’t think he likes (I’ll ask him, but I’m pretty sure he doesn’t like it).

    I think men find it annoying to have to meet these passive or aggressive shit tests. It’s not respecting him and his boundaries or leadership… and that probably doesn’t feel good.

    Liked by 2 people

  143. Ame says:

    “Women should be different from the way Eve made them. The Almighty made them to be our helpmate.”

    but, we’re not. and even God acknowledged that:

    16 Then he said to the woman,

    “I will sharpen the pain of your pregnancy,
    and in pain you will give birth.
    And you will desire to control your husband,
    but he will rule over you.”
    Genesis 3:16

    if we women were expected to behave pre-fall, then God would not have handed down ‘the curses.’ and in the ‘curse’ to Eve, God gave an explicit order to husbands – he will rule over you.

    yes, our culture has evolved to where men can no longer do so as they have in the past. but there are still men who find ways to do so, and … there are still women who choose to submit to the rule of their husbands, regardless of how strong their rule is. as Ton has often said … “alpha enough.”

    interesting in this version (NLT) it is written, “And you will desire to control your husband,” so God acknowledges that the original intent of women, to simply be a helpmeet, will no longer be the case after the fall. so …

    1. women will desire to control their husbands.
    2. husbands will rule over their women.

    so we are all working against our desires. women need to restrain themselves, to honor and obey their fathers, to submit to and respect their husbands – against their fallen desires.

    and men need to rule over their wives.

    Like

  144. earl says:

    ‘but, we’re not. and even God acknowledged that:’

    Then the LORD God said, “It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him.”

    Then later

    So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and he slept; then He took one of his ribs and closed up the flesh at that place. The LORD God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man. The man said, “This is now bone of my bones, And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.”

    Like

  145. Ame says:

    Stephanie – i see it all as shit tests. and in that way … even those who *think* they are without sin, are wrong. we all sin. we are all depraved, and we will all act out of that depraved nature.

    you have wisely removed the harsh layers and do not do those drastic things to shit test your husband, but you still act out of your fallen, depraved nature.

    there is, and i am cautious to share this b/c it will be misunderstood, but there is a place where we must acknowledge our fallen, depraved, humanity and accept our imperfection. we cannot crush ourselves into sewage simply b/c we are unworthy … and we don’t have to, because Jesus the Christ. because God. because His Love is greater than our depravity. that does not mean the Holy Spirit does not convict us of our sin, it does not mean we ignore the Holy Spirit, it does mean that, by the Grace and Mercy and Love of our Sovereign, Holy God, we can live in forgiveness and peace, if we so choose.

    we are a work-in-progress until we pass from this earth. we will always sin. it’s what we do with that and how we respond to it, that that makes the difference.

    i am not giving any of us a ‘get-out-of-jail-free’ pass 😉 … as you well know … simply reminding you, me, those who choose, that we are forgiven in Christ, and when we humbly ask His forgiveness and repent, He quickly forgives and shows us the path to walk.

    Liked by 1 person

  146. Stephanie says:

    Well… I just called him and asked him and he says he thinks it’s cute that he “has” to do that. He says it’s fun watching my face because it’s “adorable” that I have no poker face.

    I don’t know… maybe it’s not really a “shit-test” according to him?

    This is confusing!!!!!

    Liked by 1 person

  147. Ame says:

    Earl – you can choose to see what you want to see, or you can choose to see what is … and deal with it.

    there are no unicorns anymore. all women are fallen. all men are fallen. we are all depraved. pre-fall will never.exist.again. Adam and Eve were physically removed from the Garden, and guards were posted so no one ever enters again. animals were sacrificed for their sin. and consequences were handed down.

    if you are waiting for a pre-fall woman, you will die waiting, because she will never.ever.ever exist in the world as we know it ever again.

    Liked by 1 person

  148. Ame says:

    Stephanie – perhaps a better way to look at is is this: what if he did not shut you down? how would that make you feel? how would you respond to that?

    you would feel insecure. you would wonder if he really cared that you spent more time on the computer when you should have been doing as he asked.

    *then* you would probably amp it up some and raise the level of shit test.

    your husband is a good ruler. he understands your nature and works with it … and he enjoys you as you are, in your nature. he quickly deals with things so they don’t escalate.

    Liked by 1 person

  149. Stephanie says:

    “there is, and i am cautious to share this b/c it will be misunderstood, but there is a place where we must acknowledge our fallen, depraved, humanity and accept our imperfection. we cannot crush ourselves into sewage simply b/c we are unworthy … and we don’t have to, because Jesus the Christ. because God. because His Love is greater than our depravity. that does not mean the Holy Spirit does not convict us of our sin, it does not mean we ignore the Holy Spirit, it does mean that, by the Grace and Mercy and Love of our Sovereign, Holy God, we can live in forgiveness and peace, if we so choose.”

    ^^You are definitely right. To me my personal depravity is more obvious in how hard it is in dealing with our children sometimes. Our two boys are SOOOO strong willed. It’s really hard some days. I try very hard to exemplify the fruits of the spirit with them, but wow is it harder than I ever imagined parenting would be.

    A couple of years ago, I realized that not all children have the same level of rebelliousness or difficulty. You’d think this was like a given, but it hit me when I was talking to a mom friend about the kind of tantrums ours have, and she flat out said her son never did that or acted that way.

    Then I was like… well that’s not fair! LOL Why do I get the hard child!!!!??? 😀 😛 But seriously… parenting is my difficulty.

    Liked by 1 person

  150. SFC Ton says:

    all men are fallen. we are all depraved. pre-fall will never.exist.again.
    ……

    All but Earl. He’s here to save us lowly wretches ; )

    Liked by 1 person

  151. Ame says:

    🙂

    there are some of those ‘perfect children’ out there … i didn’t get one, but i know they exist 😉

    Oldest was born believing it’s better to quietly and subtly manipulate others to do the stuff for you that gets you into trouble. Youngest was born believing it’s easier to ask forgiveness than permission. 🙂

    some wisdom passed on:

    1. Sanity is priceless!
    2. Choose your battles (selective hearing and vision is critical to sanity sometimes; see #1)
    3. When you choose a battle, make it count.
    4. The consequences at these little ages are NOT life-changing although they *feel* like they are; take advantage of that.
    5. Think of your child in ten years when determining how to deal with what you are facing.

    here’s a little story:

    when my Oldest was 7 years old, she flat-out, to-my-face, lied to me. i was … appalled. i couldn’t believe she’d done that! her dad had already moved out, so i was on my own here. i told her i needed time to figure out how to handle this. i do believe that sometimes we need to handle things right away, but i think there are others where we need to distance ourselves and take our time. and intentionally lying to my face fell into the latter. i thought about it long and hard and knew i needed to come up with something that would be life-changing for her … because lying to my face at seven was, truly, inconsequential, but lying to my face at 17 was a whole ‘nother ballgame and could significantly alter her whole life.

    after thinking about it, i called her dad and discussed it with him and got his support.

    we lived in a community with a pool, and we had an annual community pool party. at that age, she LOVED parties and looked forward to them all.year.long. literally. by the time she was 4 she was planning her own birthday parties beginning the very day after her previous birthday!

    i decided to take away this community pool party from her. i literally devastated her. broke her heart. and to top that off, because of the divorce, we moved before the next summer rolled around, so she missed out on her last opportunity for this party.

    life-changing for a seven year old? absolutely. life-changing in a way that would alter her life negatively? no.

    not only did her consequence take away something huge from her own life, but it took it away from her sister, too, because as a single mom, i couldn’t leave a seven year old home alone.

    this taught her that her choices have consequences, and those consequences affect other people. HUGE life lessons that she has never forgotten.

    parenting strong-willed, creative, imaginative, strong-personality, children IS hard. and challenging. and wears you out! but it’s worth it. be grateful for your family, for your Mom. i didn’t have any of that. i was totally on my own. you have a wealth of resources. use them.

    and … most importantly, spend some time reading your bible and praying every day. pray that God would enable you to honor and respect and submit to their dad daily. pray over your children. pray that God would raise you up and enable you to be and become the Mama each of your children needs just for them. pray ephesians 6 – the armor of God – over your children and your husband and yourself daily. even if you only have five minutes to do so, do it.

    Liked by 1 person

  152. Ame says:

    Stephanie – it’s kinda funnee … but when i said to my girls, “I don’t know how to handle this. I need to pray and ask God how he wants me to handle it.” they would immediately squeal, “No, Mommy! You don’t have to pray first! We won’t do it again! Promise!” lol! they knew they were totally screwed when i got to that point.

    Liked by 1 person

  153. Stephanie says:

    “parenting strong-willed, creative, imaginative, strong-personality, children IS hard. and challenging. and wears you out! but it’s worth it. be grateful for your family, for your Mom. i didn’t have any of that. i was totally on my own. you have a wealth of resources. use them.”

    I do, thank you, Ame, this whole comment is SOOOO useful. Going to save it and maybe even print it out so I can re-read it when I need to.

    “and … most importantly, spend some time reading your bible and praying every day. pray that God would enable you to honor and respect and submit to their dad daily.”

    YES! I notice a WORLD of difference if I don’t make sure I have that time with God in the morning. And usually for me it needs to be in the morning and before they all wake up – which can be hard. Recently our Viking Boy has decided to not go to sleep until 10pm, even though bedtime is 8pm. And he wakes up 2-5 times during the night and comes to wake us up!!! So getting up at 5am after that is **hard.** But I was just saying that to myself today that I have to do it anyway. the difference is too noticeable when I don’t force myself to have that time with God.

    ” pray over your children. pray that God would raise you up and enable you to be and become the Mama each of your children needs just for them. pray ephesians 6 – the armor of God – over your children and your husband and yourself daily. even if you only have five minutes to do so, do it.”

    YES! I do pray over each of them at bedtime. And my husband is the one who started that. Every night when he comes in, they’re already asleep but he goes to each of them and prays over them and blesses them in their sleep. It’s really really touching and sweet. They sometimes wake up and listen. And now the two boys make me bless them too.

    Liked by 2 people

  154. earl says:

    ‘if you are waiting for a pre-fall woman, you will die waiting, because she will never.ever.ever exist in the world as we know it ever again.’

    What about that whole redemption story?

    So all women are going choose rebellion over obedience? That’s what I should deal with. All women are going to accept something that doesn’t bring out their full potential?

    Like

  155. Wayne says:

    I don’t believe Earl expects any woman to return to a pre-fall condition. That’s not what he’s saying. I think Earl means that women should face their fallen nature and accept the process of regeneration.

    Liked by 1 person

  156. earl says:

    I think we’ve added something to the cure, FB. It’s a matter of telling what it is and the matter of the other person being told wanting to take it or not.

    Liked by 1 person

  157. earl says:

    ‘You were dead in your transgressions and sins in which you once lived following the age of this world, following the ruler of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the disobedient. All of us once lived among them in the desires of our flesh, following the wishes of the flesh and the impulses, and we were by nature children of wrath, like the rest. But God, who is rich in mercy, because of the great love he had for us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, brought us to life with Christ (by grace you have been saved), raised us up with him, and seated us with him in the heavens in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:1-7

    Liked by 1 person

  158. Ame says:

    So all women are going choose rebellion over obedience? That’s what I should deal with. All women are going to accept something that doesn’t bring out their full potential?

    no, not all … but most. as most people, men and women, choose the wide path rather than the narrow.

    and … what has been mentioned almost in passing off and on out here, is that feminism has not been good for women, either.

    most people have yet to figure out what is wrong, and that the path they’re on is not working, and that there is a path that is better. and that our source of Truth is the Bible. the current church should be a vehicle through which we find the Truth of the Bible, but, unfortunately, it’s so embedded in depravity and feminism that it is not. not only is the church not a vehicle to the Truth, but it has drawn people in under the guise that it is, so many believe it.

    so we live in a time when culture and the church encourage women not to be as the Bible says they should.

    where is the Truth? in the Bible. as a friend of mine often says, “Let God be right and everyone else be damned.”

    within all that … as Ton keeps saying over and over ad nauseam, is that women are going to be women … and that the nature of women is such that we will shit test – subtly, overtly, passive-aggressively, without shame, however – we will act out of our nature. and as is often stated out here, AWALT. some of us women get that and work to be more like Christ would have us to be, but we are still fallen and will still get it wrong sometimes.

    in the same way it is beneficial for men to acknowledge how God made women different from men, it is beneficial for women to acknowledge that God made men different from women – and all that goes with that, including “Feed me, F*** me, and Obey me.” we women have such a hard time getting that, even those of us who ‘get’ it – as much as a woman can ‘get’ a man. sometime i think there should be more, but it’s amazing how happy my Man is when i keep all that in check.

    Liked by 1 person

  159. Ame says:

    that women should face their fallen nature and accept the process of regeneration.

    absolutely. ALL people, men and women, should do so.

    the challenge in this culture in this time in history is that there is no outside influence for women to do so – and, in all actual truth, culture and the organized church do not support women doing so and have taken all boundaries off women.

    that does not give us a free pass before Holy God, though. we will ALL have to face Him and answer to Him.

    and … each must make this decision on their own. are there things husbands and wives can do to encourage that in one another? sure. but it’s no guarantee. at some point, a woman much choose to submit to God and her husband.

    and when a woman turns her face away from God, just like when a man turns his face away from God, others suffer. this world is not all about me. my choices always affect others around me like a pebble thrown into still waters. and good men and women have to live with the consequences of those who turn their face from God. and it sucks. i know.

    Liked by 1 person

  160. Ame says:

    Richard – getting back to the rest of your comment. and, btw, i didn’t take any of it personally 🙂

    Needs doing. Such a simple phrase. She has not a clue that the things that women think need doing are much different than the things that men think need doing. My request for us to both create a list of things we thought needed doing was an attempt to meet that truth head on and get past it. Combine her thinking with my thinking and create a more complete picture of what each of us was expecting.

    But, as I have said before – we don’t respond to what is. We respond to what is perceived. And my wife still does not perceive that the things I think need doing – although they might have a small overlap with the things she thinks need doing – in the main are quite different from what she thinks need doing. There are a great many things that I see that I think need doing that she is completely oblivious to – and has never displayed any interest in finding out whether I think different thoughts than she does. She has no doubt that I think just as she does – even after having been presented with evidence all these years that I don’t.

    the list story is interesting. how is it that simple things become so complex sometimes? how we are innately different, being men and women, bonded together in this union called marriage. how we are so egocentric and seemingly incapable of truly understanding another.

    i used to believe that if we articulated clearly enough, thoroughly enough, another could understand us. one little example:

    both my babies were reflux babies. they weren’t spit up babies, they were reflux babies. they wouldn’t cry or gimace at all. they would be smiling and suddenly half of what they’d just eaten would tumble out of their mouths. you might not even know it until you felt it or heard a splat on the floor. thankfully i breastfed them, so there was no odor because i was drenched the first year of both their lives. i remember dropping one off at a church nursery once and explaining this to the woman who was in charge. she waved me off with, “Oh, I know, I know!” fine. i left, and when i came back she said, “Oh, you meant, she’s a REFLUX baby!” ummm … yeah, isn’t that what i just said?!

    several years ago i was talking with this couple i love, and he and i were trying to explain to her what a dysfuctional family was like. she finally looked at me and said, “I cannot understand that. I just cannot understand that.” and for the first time i realized there are some things in this world that other people simply cannot understand … and … that is okay. it’s not so much, then, that we understand, but that we accept that we don’t understand.

    and i think this is critical in marriage. i cannot begin to understand what it’s like to be a man, but i can accept that i cannot understand, and in not understanding, or knowing, i can accept my Husband for who he is and what he says.

    So – Ame, you say you want a man who will make decisions and not default them all to you. I offer the previous few paragraphs as an example to support this thought: I imagine that your men have been making a multitude of decisions that you have never been aware of and probably never will be (a feature, not a bug; men and women are different and tend to different things). I understand the story of your first husband and I don’t mean to diminish the tragedy that that whole experience was for you and your daughters. But I still would bet that there were decisions he was making that you were not aware of – just because men and women think differently and tend to different things – even when it felt like you were the one making all the decisions.

    yes, i agree. it is difficult to explain things about my first husband b/c it’s all so complex, and it’s difficult for a healthy man to understand how a man like him made some of the choices he did. but i do agree with you that he was making decisions we were not aware of – some of which were for our benefit. i think there were many choices he made where he left some kind of trail behind, but we’ll never know because his parents went through his stuff with a fine-toothed comb before they let our daughters in. i also think that many of the good choices he made to benefit us got buried in his ‘illness,’ for lack of a better word. my girls and i learn from that … to not let the bad we do negate the good.

    Ame, this is not personal so please don’t take it that way. It’s just that your comment triggered an avalanche of thoughts. And so I am using your comments as the example, since they are right here (or right above actually). The only thing that I can think of that would make comments such as the ones you made above make sense would be the issue of solipsism that is discussed in the manosphere. My experience with my wife and my four sisters and wives of cousins over the years is that women seem to think the only things that need doing are the things that directly affect them. And that makes sense. While they are at home with clutches of babies they need to be able to smell the spoiled milk from across the room and get to it before junior or junioretta gets to it. They don’t need to be thinking spatially and geographically in their head as they figure out how best to bring down the next mastedon so as to feed the village for a few more weeks. But it would be refreshing for men if women would ocassionally indicate that they know bringing down the mastedon actually is something that needs doing – just as much as vacuuming the bear rug needs doing. And the doing of it requires thinking and planning and making decisions that women don’t begin to comprehend – because that is not something that they normally tend to.

    i agree. and that’s really and truly difficult for us women … but certainly not impossible.

    perhaps this is one way where the breakdown of the generational family and close community plays out in negative ways for women … we don’t have another women to sit us down and set our crazy, hormonal, emotional, irrational minds straight. and we don’t have that older woman to come into our home, look around, and direct us to go take a nap while they care for our littles for a few hours.

    and what’s also been lost in this feminism craze is the need to remain teachable. if we don’t remain teachable, if we’re told that b/c we’re a woman the world should revolve around me, then we have a lot to unlearn before we can learn real truth.

    and in remaining teachable, we need to be taught that simply because we don’t understand something does not mean that something is not true or valid. this is critically important in how women view men because groups of women will often demean that which they don’t understand, including men, rather than accepting and valuing what they don’t understand.

    little example:

    i keep my Aspie-Girl in a very controlled environment. in this environment she is safe … but she is also able to function very well without meds – and this is important to us. one of the things i do in this controlled environment is control the people who have access to her who could harm her in any way. my Husband has an older daughter in her 30’s who is VERY opinionated and is wont to speak ill of those and that which she does not understand or does not want to understand. because of logistics, we don’t see her or her family often, so it’s not much of an issue. but about a year or so ago she spent a weekend with us, so i sent my Aspie Girl to my sister’s for the weekend. Daughter made a comment that she’d like to get to know Aspie-Girl, and i just smiled and nodded and thought, “No way in hell.” i like Daughter. we get along fine. i don’t trust her much, but i like her. not only would she be critical of Aspie Girl (and she’s a teacher, so, of course, she knows EVERYTHING there is to know about sped kids. /end sarcasm), but she would spread lots of hypothetical rumors around her mother’s family – which is quite large. no need for any of that, so i just kept Aspie-Girl away, smiled, and enjoyed the weekend.

    learning that because *I* do not understand something does not make it invalid or unimportant or not true is HUGE and, unfortunately, not often taught. idk, but this might be more understood among men? but you are correct in that women do not innately understand and know this and must be taught.

    i hope i have been teaching this to my daughters well. if they’ve heard it once, they’ve heard it a thousand times: “This world is not all about you, so get over it.” and i’ve tried to instill into them these truths about understanding and not understanding not being equal to what is and is not.

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  161. Ame says:

    Richard –
    A side note about something said above (and at Blooms as well): women need to emote from time to time. That also is a feature, not a bug (at least it is part of the built-in design). After a few years of using logic during these times in my marriage (in spite of knowing that I shouldn’t be using logic when my wife was being irrational) – I decided that my gift to my wife would be to just stand there and let her emote and vent. I understood that it was not personal, althought the words being vented were quite personal. Letting her vent (within reason; no throwing of things, etc.) worked better than attempting to point out to her how illogical she was being.

    *giggling*

    you are a wise man, indeed! we are so emotional and irrational! we don’t make a lick of sense and half of what we say in those situations is false or distorted! you are just a very wise man, indeed!

    it’s amazing what a good cry can do for a woman! it’s like a good, strong rain washing all that terrible pollen away after weeks of no rain … although, if i remember correctly, you’re in southern california, so you might not know about that 😉

    After a while, sometimes a few days, the clouds would pass and the sunshine of her smile would shine again. This is something that Earl and others do not understand. A dead person cannot think properly. It is foolish to lable that a matter of the heart. A baby cannot think properly. It is foolish to lable that a matter of the heart.

    yes! it’s amazing! i won’t even pretend to understand it, but i know it’s true!

    i know the men want to ignore the hormonal/emotional side of women, but to do so ignores who a woman is. we cannot separate the two. and while hormones should not be an excuse, per se, they are definitely an explanation.

    People develop lesions in their brain that increase or decrease the production of necessary chemicals and hormones and the ability to exert self-control is seriously compromised. The brain cannot be logical unless the chemistry of the brain is willing. And too often, it is not willing. As is the case during menstruation and menopause. When a woman is bleeding, the blood provides a quick path up into her abdominal cavity for bacteria and other nasties to travel. Getting brain fog for a few days that encourage the lady to stay put rather than chase after the men leaving to hunt the mastedone increases the liklihood that she will not pick up strange bugs that can quickly travel into her abdominal cavity and do her in. That process was designed in, much like your brain makes your muscles go completely limp during certain points of being asleep – to reduce the likelihood that you will get up and move around and injure yourself while asleep. That feature of disabling part of the body to protect another part (both in sleep and menstruation and menopause) was designed in. It is not simply a matter of the heart.

    that is all so.very.interesting! i did not know all of this! well … i certainly DO know about brain fog (UGH!). but i did not know about all this chemical/bacteria stuff. very, very interesting.

    i’ll stop here and emphasize/add a few thoughts about hormones and women:
    1. they’re real. they exist.
    2. they vary from woman to woman.
    3. diet plays a HUGE part here.
    4. exercise also plays a HUGE part here.
    5. but those will also vary from woman to woman.
    6. many women do NOT understand their hormonal cycles.
    7. all women should learn their hormonal cycles.
    8. a good man can gently teach his woman about her hormonal cycles – just carefully pick the good week of the month to go over it with her 😉 .
    9. this perpetual feminism lie that women can do it all makes women deny their bodies, ignoring what their bodies are telling them, which causes all those things going on to build up and then explode like a crazy volcano.
    10. this is not good for anyone, including women.
    11. NO, men are not responsible for this, but,
    12. yes, as long as men are around women, unfortunately, they have to deal with it in some form, even if just from a distance at work or in public spaces.

    But some issues are matters of the heart. It is difficult to determine when it is a design feature at work and when it is a matter of the heart at work. But that is part of what the job of ruling over … the weaker vessel entails, to mix two Biblical concepts together. Its all part of what building a life together outside of the Garden means. It is not easy, but it is necessary. It is part of what 1 Peter 3:7 means: … husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge (understanding), giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel … (kjv) There are issues that ARE matters of the heart. And then there are issues that are alluded to in 1 Peter 3:7. It isn’t possible to rule over someone wisely until you know the difference between the two.

    YES.YES.YES.YES.YES.

    Richard, you SO get this. you totally get it.

    and this feminism lie that women do not need men kills us women. satan is masterful, is he not, to create all of this so we deny what and how God created us and it all to be.

    if i walk into a group, especially of women, and state, “I NEED my Husband,” the shocked responses i’ll get are horrid. ‘you don’t need a man!’ ‘you can get by just fine without a man!’ and on and on.

    but the truth is … i DO NEED my Husband.

    (and i NEEDED my first Husband. and my girls NEEDED their Daddy. )

    and what we women need to understand … is that we need the Husband we have, not the one we *think* we should have … or the one we can conjure up in our minds when we combine all the single, good, qualities of all the men we know, ignoring the negative. 99 times out of 100, the man we have is man enough to be the man we need, and we need to accept that. and we need to honor God by respecting and submitting to the man we have. AND … women need to not live in fear of that 1/100 man who is not the best guy out there, esp when he’s not her man. we get too caught up in the ‘what if’s’ of life that we forget to live with what we have, and by doing so, we destroy our own man and miss out on living.

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  162. Ame says:

    Wayne –
    I get this, but there still seems to be something missing in terms of womens agency, and I believe faith and commitment are the answers to their questions of uncertainty. Yet many women continue to shit test long after marriage, which obviously is a lack of faith. It seems clear that faith and trust are central elements here. A lack of faith and trust, evidenced by continual shit tests, will start rocking the boat until it capsizes.
    To summarize this rambling reasoning, shit tests are evidence of a lack of faith.
    I’m sorry if this dry rationalization has offended any female readers. None intended.

    i think i’ve addressed this in other comments, but i also think it’s worth signaling out because i do believe that faith, or lack of faith, is a HUGE issue among Christian women, especially Christian married women specifically toward their husbands.

    first, i firmly believe shit tests are part of the innate nature of women. we don’t even think about it.

    however … there is a line – and i’m not sure it falls distinctly within ‘shit tests,’ per se – but there is a line where, once crossed, a woman looses a part of her man she can never again get back.

    where a Christian woman often lacks faith is really in God, and perhaps part of that is based on a lack of knowledge of Who He is and what He has commanded. if we do not comprehend who God truly is and have a natural fear of Him, then we don’t care about what He commands. but if we know who God is, then we do have a healthy fear of him, and then what He commands us to do becomes very, very important in our lives.

    once we know who God truly is and have a healthy fear of Him, then we can get to His commands and accept them even if we don’t want them or if we don’t like them or if they don’t make any sense to us.

    when i was in my first marriage i spent a lot of time reading the bible to determine what God expected of me as my husband’s wife, and not once did i ever read that *if* my husband did _____, *then* i was to submit to him, respect him, obey him. rather, the bible simply says that wives are to submit to their husbands and respect their husbands. period. this is HUGE. this is game-changer/game-over. {{{again … i was NOT a perfect wife … i made my own mistakes … and i tried to own up to all of them}}} there were many who had no idea what was going on in my first marriage, or that there was ever any issue about / with my husband, b/c i never shared it. even my closest friends didn’t know. i only projected him in the best light despite all the things he was doing to me behind closed doors. why? because he was my husband. why did i choose to respect my husband? because God commanded me to, and my fear of Almighty, Holy God was greater than my desire to do my own thing.

    this is not taught in many places. it is not taught that a woman should submit to and respect her husband simply because God told her to. and it’s not taught that it is evidence of her faith in Almighty God.

    so, while i do agree that there is a lot that is a lack of faith … i also believe that the nature of woman is not necessarily a lack of faith. it can be, but it might not be. and this would most likely be determined person by person. some would be glaringly obvious, but some not. for example, there are women who look really good in everything they do yet have no faith at all.

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  163. Stephanie says:

    “Daughter made a comment that she’d like to get to know Aspie-Girl, and i just smiled and nodded and thought, “No way in hell.” i like Daughter. we get along fine. i don’t trust her much, but i like her. not only would she be critical of Aspie Girl (and she’s a teacher, so, of course, she knows EVERYTHING there is to know about sped kids. /end sarcasm), but she would spread lots of hypothetical rumors around her mother’s family – which is quite large. no need for any of that, so i just kept Aspie-Girl away, smiled, and enjoyed the weekend.”

    My husband has some women in his family like that, and because of that, we have to keep a really high boundary. As a result, his parents only know maybe 40% of what is actually going on with our family, and we have to have it that way. It’s sad when you can’t trust people you feel like you **should** be able to trust, but I’ve learned the hard way that those boundaries are needed.

    Like with “Daughter,” there’s just no way you’d be able to have a close relationship with her where she knew all of your family’s ins and outs and such. Which is sad, but reality.

    Liked by 1 person

  164. Ame says:

    Stephanie – you are wise.

    also, in this situation with us … she would speak ill of Aspie-Girl, which would in turn lead her to speaking ill of me, which would in turn lead her to speaking ill of my Husband, her Dad – double bad right there.

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  165. […] Spawny’s Space: Shit Test Diagnosis and Cure (June 16, […]

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