Fried Ice


From the Atlantic

In a recent, in-depth Washington Post profile of Karen Pence, Vice President Mike Pence’s wife, a small detail is drawing most of the attention: “In 2002, Mike Pence told The Hill that he never eats alone with a woman other than his wife and that he won’t attend events featuring alcohol without her by his side, either.”

In context, this choice is not especially surprising. The Pences are evangelical Christians, and their faith animates both their policy views and how they express devotion to one another. Eight months into their courtship, the Post reporter Ashley Parker writes, “Karen engraved a small gold cross with the word ‘Yes’ and slipped it into her purse to give him when he popped the question.”

But, especially in boozy, late-working Washington, the eating thing rankled. Sure, during the day, you can grab coffee instead of a sandwich. But no dinner? Doesn’t that cut an entire gender off from a very powerful person at roughly 8 p.m.? To career-obsessed Washingtonians, that’s practically happy hour—which, apparently, is off-limits too.

This is so bad.  How can ambitious women cultivate the networking connections that are so useful?  Or perhaps, how can they utilize their assets to their ultimate potential?

Pence is not the only powerful man in Washington who goes to great lengths to avoid the appearance of impropriety with the opposite sex. An anonymous survey of female Capitol Hill staffers conducted by National Journal in 2015 found that “several female aides reported that they have been barred from staffing their male bosses at evening events, driving alone with their congressman or senator, or even sitting down one-on-one in his office for fear that others would get the wrong impression.” One told the reporter Sarah Mimms that in 12 years working for her previous boss, he “never took a closed door meeting with me. … This made sensitive and strategic discussions extremely difficult.”

OK, we get the picture.  Women want to be part of the club, but can’t when men keep them at arms length.

Naturally enough, this is totally rational behavior by men.  All that it takes to ruin a career is one accusation.  If there is never a situation where there could be an unwitnessed event, so much the better.  Furthermore, it is important to stop possible speculation before it ever starts by avoiding situations that might generate such.

There seems to be a recurring theme with Feminism.  The rules are changed as they desire, with men altering behavior in a rational way to compensate.  Naturally Feminists desire men to alter behavior in only the manner desired by them, not as men deem fit.  One wonders how much the Feminist’s ever really truly gain…

when men avoid professional relationships with women, even if for noble reasons, it actually hurts women in the end. “The research is irrefutable: Those with larger networks earn more money and get promoted faster. Because men typically dominate senior management, there’s evidence that the most valuable network members may be men,” wrote Kim Elsesser, a  research scholar at the UCLA Center for the Study of Women, in the Los Angeles Times recently. “Without access to beneficial friendships and mentor relationships with executive men, women won’t be able to close the gender gap that exists in most professions.”

Here is something that is deemed unfair to women.  So naturally there should be a government imposed solution.  Perhaps there will be quotas for men mentoring/sponsoring women.  Maybe, they will dispense with everything and double down on the promotion of women.  I can think of all sorts of heavy handed / clumsy solutions that could be implemented.  Probably you can also.

As for the root cause of this issue, it is very real.  Personally, I shy away from women at work.  I have mentored many junior workers, never have they been women.  It is all about risk (and lack of reward).

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Posted in FarmBoy, Feminism, Politics, Trainwreck
78 comments on “Fried Ice
  1. Farm Boy says:

    I have seen women who are emboldened by the entitlement of the fast track using sexual harassment to further enhance their position. Probably they view themselves as not being able to do anything wrong.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. SFC Ton says:

    This use to be common practice for men who took the value of their reputation cereal-islee

    Liked by 1 person

  3. SFC Ton says:

    I also reckoned Pence a better man when I read this

    Like

  4. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Farm Boy,
    Already on the fast track and they resorted to sexual threats to supercharge their advance? I would hope that demonstrations of character like that lead them out the door.

    As for this post, women have to realize that men have to defend themselves. It may well be that men will never be able to trust women. The temptation to threaten with sexual harassment lawsuits is too powerful.

    My advice to feminists is to give this up. They burnt down the bridges on this a long time ago. There is no way they are going to have their cake and eat it too on this one. The upside for women is too small to compensate for the downside that men have to face. Should government find a way to intervene and shove this down the throats of men, there will be a response.

    One more thought. Feminists are finding anything and everything they can use to criticize Trump and his administration. I think he should go to war with them. They are already at war with him.

    Liked by 3 people

  5. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I stumbled across this and thought it was too good to not share.

    We’re worldwide and we have Hillary to thank for it. She called us all “Deplorables” and it is an honor coming from her.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    I think the release of the new Ghostbusters was a turning point for this little corner of the internet. It was panned before release and it bombed.

    Like

  7. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Spawny Get,
    Something else to consider in your question, which country is getting value for their money in their budget?
    https://dissention.wordpress.com/2017/03/31/russian-military-capability-is-far-stronger-than-its-gdp-would-suggest/

    Like

  8. Spawny Get says:

    Could be a great money-maker

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Spawny Get says:

    Interesting. I’ve been listening to Jordan’s lectures whilst driving. Not particularly impressive presentation TBH. I find him prone to rambling. He’s an absolute hero over pronouns, but that doesn’t make him great on everything.

    Liked by 1 person

  10. SFC Ton says:

    Women never realize much
    Which is part of why they are such a mess
    Expecting women to realize something probaly ain’t the best use of a man’s time

    Liked by 2 people

  11. SFC Ton says:

    More good news out of the DNC

    http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/31/perez-trump-didnt-win-the-election-republicans-dont-give-a-st-about-people-video/

    We’ll good news for anyone that wants to see the gop radically reformed to a middle class White guy party

    Liked by 2 people

  12. Yoda says:

    Apologize to Moe I do

    Liked by 1 person

  13. SFC Ton says:

    It’s funny when “conservatives” prove how liberal they are.

    Like

  14. Spawny Get says:

    The thing is I don’t care about ‘it’s not fair’ arguments from women any more. Not for many years now. Once you see the lack of any empathy for men it’s game over for that argument from women.

    Liked by 2 people

  15. RichardP says:

    I’ve skimmed the responses to the quote from VP Pence from many different sources. The most common theme seems to be “a woman cannot advance in the workplace unless she’s allowed to be alone with a man”.

    Seems to be at odds with that other meme “empowered women” .

    New meme: “how dare you deny me the opportunity to interact with you in any way that I deem appropriate” .

    If it is true that women have trouble with logic and imagining consequences, then men have to do this. One result is the Billy Graham rule. And OB/Gyn doctors who always have a nurse present when examining women. That’s something that women in general probably will never “get” . [as always, there are exceptions to the rule]

    Liked by 2 people

  16. Yoda says:

    On Wednesday, Mrs. Trump’s Twitter account @FLOTUS posted the following message: “I urge you to not be afraid to fail, as failure will never have the power to define you, as long as you learn from it.”

    To which Rosie O’Donnell responded: “which is y u need to divorce him. take ur son n parents and FLEE [sic].”

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/03/31/rosie-odonnell-to-melania-trump-divorce-and-flee-from-donald-trump/

    Like

  17. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Spawny Get,
    “Just one more corndog.”

    Yoda,
    One of the twitterati commented that pence’s political opponents would take issue no matter what he did.In this, he is correct. The Trump administration is in a war with feminists, The best thing they can do is withhold funding from feminist cash cows. Feminists richly deserve having the rug yanked up from underneath them.

    Like

  18. Yoda says:

    Important news this is

    Katie Holmes says daughter Suri was “hurt” when Hillary Clinton lost the election in November.

    “I thought Hillary was going to win this year, and it just hurt so badly when she didn’t. And I know it hurt my child so much as a 10-year-old,”

    http://www.breitbart.com/news/katie-holmes-suri-was-hurt-when-hillary-clinton-lost-election/

    Like

  19. Yoda says:


    “Just one more corndog.”

    For Rosie mean you do?

    Like

  20. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    Rosie is welcome to one too, but I was thinking of Nicola Sturgeon.

    How does the opinion of a ten year old girl’s disappointment in the out come of and election make the news nearly five months after the fact?

    Liked by 1 person

  21. Yoda says:

    Wonder about Bill Clinton I do

    “Earlier tonight, in what is surely an April Fools’ joke, the president proclaimed that next month will be National Sexual Assault Awareness and Prevention Month, so now we know what he gave up for Lent,” the former Saturday Night Live star said.

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2017/04/01/aclu-telethon-tina-fey-says-trump-gave-up-assaulting-women-lent/

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Yoda says:

    Wow, @FoxNews just reporting big news. Source: “Official behind unmasking is high up. Known Intel official is responsible. Some unmasked….
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 1, 2017

    ..not associated with Russia. Trump team spied on before he was nominated.” If this is true, does not get much bigger. Would be sad for U.S.
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) April 1, 2017

    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/04/01/fox-trump-surveilled-before-nomination-agencies-info-blocked-nunes-weeks/

    Liked by 1 person

  23. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    This stuff is venomous and not funny.

    Like

  24. Yoda says:

    Jesus perfect he was.
    The normal man is not


    In this conversation, we also have to keep in mind the fact that Pence is the vice president of the United States. He is not a pastor and does not act in that capacity. How on earth can he be expected to represent half the country if he won’t eat at the same table as us? Not to mention that his ideological purity is called into question by his support of our current president, who has bragged about committing sexual assault.

    One of the most common citations for following the Billy Graham Rule is to avoid “rumors” that can fell a church leader. However, if we look not to Graham for an example of how to treat women but to Jesus, we will find a different path to follow.

    Jesus consistently elevated the dignity of women and met with them regularly, including his meeting with a Samaritan woman in the middle of the day. Scholars suggest that the woman would have gone to the well in the noon heat to avoid interacting with her fellow townspeople, who would have gone at a cooler time of day. Samaritans and Jews were not particularly fond of each other. Yet this Jewish man met this Samaritan woman in broad daylight, asked her for water from the well, and in turn offered her eternal life. The woman, widely thought to be an adulteress, had been married five times and had no husband when she met Jesus. Yet he didn’t flinch from meeting with her. He didn’t suggest that his reputation was more important than her eternal soul. As a result, she lives on as one of the heroes of the faith, a woman who evangelized to her entire city.

    It will be difficult for women to flourish in the White House if the vice president will not meet with them. Women cannot flourish in the church if their pastors consistently treat them as sexual objects to be avoided. The Billy Graham Rule locates the fault of male infidelity in the bodies of women, but “flee from temptation” does not mean “flee from women.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2017/03/30/the-religious-reasons-mike-pence-wont-eat-alone-with-women-dont-add-up/

    Liked by 1 person

  25. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    So, they intend to make an issue of this? In doing so, they are digging a hole for themselves. To do other than as he does is to beg a lawsuit or an accusation that would destroy his reputation. So far, this policy has worked for him. We may be at the point where he can say that women have brought this on themselves with frivolous sexual harassment suits.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It just occurred to me that, since they can’t attack Mike Pence for his faults, since they can’t find any, they are attacking him for his virtue. This is pretty lame. Still, they are attacking.

    Liked by 2 people

  27. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Spawny Get,
    That was a good response video from Messenger Rising about Jordan Peterson. I think that Professor Peterson is too inflexible to change his mind. It is his loss because it means he can’t learn.

    Yoda,
    I think that those pandas have seen too much television, especially professional wrestling.

    Like

  28. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    In the case of NASCAR drivers, the relationship is more open and honest. They are sponsors.
    Which reminds me, it has been too long since I heard Molly do a Ka-Vroom. it’s time for Molly bait!

    Like

  29. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    Could wee be looking at a potential star witness? She can’t lie ever again.

    Liked by 1 person

  30. Spawny Get says:

    SNP McMong MP gets Brillo’d

    They really are fifth rate

    Liked by 2 people

  31. Yoda says:

    Brillo in fine form he is

    Liked by 1 person

  32. Yoda says:

    At least her eyes point in the same direction they do

    Liked by 1 person

  33. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    These people just keep lining up for him.

    Like

  34. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    In the above comment, I was referring to Andrew “Brillo” Neil.

    Yoda, that is a great action shot of Liz at play.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz: “Mike, I want a hug NOW!”

    Like

  36. Spawny Get says:

    The whole show that featured McMong. He was only the second best bit. Bliarite spindoctor Alistair Campbell cunti di tutti cunti starts at 4:30. After his short film the flustercuck of lunacy begins. Marvellous

    Like

  37. RichardP says:

    Keep in mind that the comment made by Pence about not eating alone with a woman not his wife was made some time ago, but made visible recently. Does anybody have any evidence that he still operates by that rule? I have not seen any current quotes from him. Did his wife maybe confirm that he still abides by that standard?

    Like

  38. Yoda says:

    Hillary’s role model this is

    Liked by 2 people

  39. Spawny Get says:

    Socialism everywhere forever

    Liked by 1 person

  40. Yoda says:

    ‘You have reached the Russian embassy, your call is very important to us. To arrange a call from a Russian diplomat to your political opponent, press 1. To use the services of Russian hackers press 2. To request election interference , press 3 and wait until the next election campaign. Please note that all calls are recorded for quality improvement and training purposes.’

    Of course this was an April Fools joke, but given the level of paranoia and hysteria from the left, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Democrats in D.C. use this audio as ‘solid proof’ that the Russians hacked our election.

    http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2017/04/russias-april-fools-voicemail-press-2-services-russian-hackers-press-3-election-interference/

    Liked by 2 people

  41. Spawny Get says:

    Not getting the spirit of the t’ing like a boss

    Like

  42. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    Shhhhh! You are giving away Soviet state secrets.What do you think stopped the Nazis when they got within fifteen miles of Moscow?

    Like

  43. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Spawny Get,
    I wish that we could see more of David Starkey. He doesn’t mince words. I remember his take down of Laurie Penny.

    Liked by 1 person

  44. SFC Ton says:

    They know damn well why arrests are down but the cathedral backs the cathedral

    http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-police-slowdown-20170401-story.html

    Like

  45. Yoda says:

    Police in the small German town of Bad Sobernheim have reported a group of men described as being “African or Arabic origin” who broke into a construction site, stole tools, and used them to attack locals.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/04/02/migrants-steal-tools-use-attack-locals/

    Liked by 1 person

  46. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    As i was reading your comment about the break in and theft of construction tools, I was hoping that the miscreants would do something “constuctive” with them. That would have been a switch, and a happy one at that. When it comes to pranks, these guys have little imagination.

    Like

  47. Yoda says:

    Feminists have managed to create an employment atmosphere where men walk around on pins and needles wondering when something they say might be taken out of context or when a woman might decide to ruin a man’s career with a false accusation

    https://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/2017/04/feminists-have-managed-to-create.html

    Liked by 1 person

  48. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    You brought it back to the original post. I wonder how much men worrying over false accusations and sexual harassment suits runs their productivity down? As for the women complaining, they can’t have it both ways.

    Like

  49. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Horseman,
    It seems that they would rather not offend feminists than make money.

    Like

  50. Farm Boy says:

    There is a new post

    Like

  51. Yoda says:

    Eventually Pence’s critics seemed to settle on two reasonable-sounding arguments: that his rule against one-on-one dining with females other than his wife would structurally disadvantage women in his office political network and that his rules for himself were actually sexist demands on his wife, requiring Karen Pence to give up her own career and act as a chaperone.

    On that second point, I can say only that I remember when it was the height of bad taste to have any opinion at all about what went on in someone else’s marriage — for example, whether Hillary Clinton or Huma Abedin should have divorced their husbands for their sexual indiscretions. Back then, women of Karen Pence’s age were presumed to be adults, fully competent to decide what they were willing to endure in the course of their marriage. They were even entitled to do so without the unsolicited advice of several million unlicensed freelance marriage counselors. Has that edict now been rescinded? Or did it only ever apply to the spouses of Democratic politicians?

    The other objection is more serious. Having once worked at a place where a lot of client bonding went on at strip clubs — outings at which I would have felt unwelcome, to say the least — I am fully cognizant of how these sorts of structural barriers can hamper a career. “If Pence won’t eat with a woman alone, how could a woman be Chief of Staff, or lawyer, campaign manager …” asked Mother Jones editor Clara Jeffery on Twitter. “Would Pence dine with Ivanka? Or KellyAnne? Or are they too relegated to second class citizens … I don’t know/care if Pences have weird hangups. I do care if women are being denied jobs and opportunities, and that some normalize this. Has Pence in his career had a woman high up in any campaign, administration, private practice, radio show or think-tank?”

    These are reasonable questions. The thing is, they have answers. And those answers seem to include a fair number of female staffers doing things other than fetching coffee. Who do not necessarily think that Pence’s rules are holding them back.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-04-03/the-pences-prophylactic-approach-to-infidelity

    Liked by 1 person

  52. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    They don’t get it, do they? Men have to defend themselves from frivolous lawsuits that seem to coincide with terminating female employees. Second, if this is all these regressives can come up with to attack the Trump administration, they don’t have much.

    Like

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