Criticism


Over at Dalrock’s, our old friend Deti wrote,

@The Question:

Re your linked article discussing the Wilcox piece, what men always notice is that the message is always

“Men, this is what you need, and this is what you should be to get what you need. This is why marriage is good for you and why you need it. If you don’t want these things or think that marriage is obligation and burden, then you’re obviously a misogynist who won’t man up and do his duty. You’re obviously an overgrown kid who won’t grow up and take responsibility.”

Nowhere in ANY of these pieces by Wilcox or Prager or Geraghty is there any question asked, any circumspection, about why men are really saying these things. No where is there any question asked whether women are doing the things required of them, are cultivating the skills and mindset for marriage, and whether these women make good marriage partners. Nowhere is anyone asking what women bring to the table. Nowhere is anyone asking if women are willing to commit their minds, hearts, lives, bodies and livelihoods to their marriages, as is being demanded of men.

And Dalrock’s covered it quite well. It’s much easier to flog men, criticize men, and accuse men. Calling women to account is hard. Criticizing women and holding their feet to the fire is hard. And it’s hard because it just feels bad. Because when you criticize a woman, she feels bad. And cries, and complains. And points her fingers at you and wails to the crowd, “He made me FEEL BAD!” And then the crowd gangs up on the man who rightly criticized her. And the man who criticized her is chastised, ostracized, eviscerated and excoriated. All because he said “yeah, but the women aren’t doing it right either. Here are the things women need to do/say/be.”

But no, we can’t have that. We cannot have anyone correcting or criticizing women. Unless it’s another woman. We can’t have men, husbands, telling THEIR OWN WIVES that what they’re doing is wrong and they need to stop doing it now and they need to repent and do it the right way. We can’t have pastors telling the older women in the church to be quiet and ask their husbands. We can’t have anyone telling the strong independent woman anything, because if we do, she’ll collapse into a sobbing heap while the men around her gang up on and destroy the man who criticized her.

That’s why Wilcox et al. won’t correct women. First, they really don’t think women are the problem. Second, they’re terrified of what women will do, and then what the mass of men (i.e. white knights) will do.

So why is it so difficult to criticize women?  Deti suggests that it comes from two sources, than women are not the problem, and that men are terrified of the response that they might receive for doing so.

Let us consider some possibilities

I.  Yes, women are wonderful.  At least that is the perception.  This probably comes from the fact that in times past, women were encouraged to wonderful (e.g. selfless, honest, industrious).  Sometimes they were.  It seems that in the modern day, the perceived aspiration stuck, but the execution didn’t.

II. Men are embarrassed that women are doing bad things, and that they can’t control them.  It is better to just pretend that the women are just fine.

III. Men are perceived to be big and strong.  Attacks on women would be perceived as an unfair fight.  Men in competitions have rules, and this would be against those rules.  It doesn’t matter that the contest is not physical, but one of ideas — it would still be bullying.

IV. Pretty women who turn on their charms are just hard to resist for many men.  Who could get mad at something like that?

V.  Men are used to sucking it up.  They have always sucked it up.  It is what men historically have done.  They would be girlie men if they did not, or so it would be said. Why should this situation be any different?

Please feel free to add your own suppositions.

Addendum by Deti

“So why is it so difficult to criticize women?”

The two criticisms I mentioned at Dalrocks are the ones which come up specifically with evangelical Christians, in Churchianity/Cuckstianity. (1) Women aren’t the problem; and (2) men are pussies, terrified of what women and other men will do/say to them if they do criticize women.

Another possibility is that most men fear getting a reputation as an asshole who calls women out. Men are told if they are perceived as assholes, women won’t like them and they won’t get sex.

It seems to work exactly the opposite. Assholes finish first and get sex with women. Assholes get everything else too: money, power, jobs, work, influence, clout. Especially in a world where “asshole” means “man who stands up for himself and refuses to take bullshit.”

That, of course, tells us that more men need to incorporate more asshole into their lives.

A second reason , related to one of the reasons mentioned in my comment and FarmBoy’s post, is the differing “ingroups” and their nature. Men are in tribes, women are in herds. There’s a Team Woman; there is no Team Man. There are only tribes of men.

Notice that whenever a man is criticized, usually its the men from his own tribe doing the criticizing, and usually its for the purpose of getting him with the program. Because if he doesn’t, he’ll be out of the tribe. Men from other tribes don’t know enough about the guy to say anything about him.

It’s very different with women. Whenever a woman is criticized, from any source, or hurt, or ailing, all the women around her, no matter their affiliations, immediately close ranks around the ailing/criticized woman. ALL women do this, no matter where or what they are. Because all women feel deep kinship with all other women.

The evangelical Christian virgin defends the immoral, disease ridden slut. The pro-life housewife with 10 kids defends the nasty slut who’s had 3 abortions. The old woman defends the young, and vice versa. The married woman defends the young single naïve woman and the divorced woman. The virtue signaling white woman defends the black woman (but not too much vice versa, because race trumps everything else). The married woman defends the divorced woman. The faithful woman defends the adulteress. And so on. All women defend all other women.

I think this is a relic of evobio and evopsych, probably – eggs are expensive. We need every woman we can get to have babies and propagate the species, and to that end, every woman, every single solitary woman, MUST be saved and her life preserved at all costs. She will not be expelled from the herd no matter what she does or who she is, because goddamn it, we need her to have babies and take care of the young kids and the menfolk. We need every single one of the women we’ve got. None can be spared, none can be expended.

Addendum by RichardP

@ fuzzie: “Women complain and criticize men all day long, but we can’t say “boo”.

First, ditto deti.

Second – it’s not that men can’t say boo, it’s that saying boo does no good. Men who have lived with women for a while come to understand this. Men are dogs and women are cats. Dogs respond to commands. Cats don’t. Command all you want. That won’t change the nature of cats.

In the recent past, someone at Rational Male or Dalrock made a comment about this situation that resonated with me, roughly paraphrased: you manage women; you don’t command them. In other words, you “husband” them, in the truest meaning of the word. Manage situations, not the woman, in a way to get the response that you desire from the woman.

I think Rudyard Kipling’s poem “The Female of the Species” gets this more right than wrong:
The Female of the Species

“So it comes that Man, the coward, when he gathers to confer
With his fellow-braves in council, dare not leave a place for her
Where, at war with Life and Conscience, he uplifts his erring hands
To some God of Abstract Justice—which no woman understands.”

As laid out by deti above, men criticize each other as a means of encouraging adherence to a standard / abstract justice. Most men understand the standard, and so will respond to the criticism from other men. They understand on some level that the criticism is designed to help them grow / make them better.

Women understand no such thing. Therefore, they must be “managed” or husbanded differently. To expect pastors to deal with women in the church the same as they deal with men, and get the same results, is foolishness.

Addendum by Ame,

Few women take correction or criticism from anyone, including other women – sometimes especially other women. women will herd together and dis the one correcting them in a nano-second.

I loved my late Mentor. she was an amazing woman, and I still miss her dearly after ten years. I would tell her of other women I thought could benefit from her mentor-ship, and she would always stop me and ask if they *really* wanted to learn. she was in her 70’s, and she’d already learned well that few women really and truly want correction and instruction. Sadly not one woman i thought could benefit from her instruction was willing to be mentored.

– – –

I’ve been kicked out of the herd a time or two for not following along blindly. I don’t like not being a part of the herd. I miss it.

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Posted in FarmBoy, Feminism, Lies, Marriage
82 comments on “Criticism
  1. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I don’t know how it came about, or where, or when, but we are stuck with an unwritten eleventh commandment, “Thou shalt not criticize women.”. If you and, doubly so if you are right, expect the harpies and white knights to come out of the woodwork.
    Along with Deti, I think we all get a little tired of the traditional conservative pep talks that tell men they have to accommodate women as they are, to “man up and marry those sluts”. Shame isn’t going to work when they are terrible candidates.

    Like

  2. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I would like to know how it did get to this point. Women complain and criticize men all day long, but we can’t say “boo”.

    Like

  3. mgtowhorseman says:

    who gives a fuck why others don’t hold people to task.
    woman. man. 3 toed sloth. Who fucking cares.

    man or woman you screw up you get called on it.

    Nurse came in 45 min late again this morning. “oh kids were sick and I had to wait for the sitter to get there.”

    I replied “Not my problem. What is are the five residents who are hungry waiting to get their breakfast. Are they more important than your kids?”

    Then said this is the fourth time this month. There will not be a fifth.

    He got the message cause I he was hired to replace the previous nurse who I fired when she got to five.

    Not a typo
    I said He. Male nurse with custody who replaced a female.

    Im an equal opportunity prick.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Horseman,
    I get the feeling that it is easier to draw the line at work. However, girls like to push it there to the limit.

    Like

  5. SFC Ton says:

    Who gives a shit what women, childern and feminized men have to say?

    Liked by 1 person

  6. SFC Ton says:

    Prager etc being the pussies

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Spawny Get says:

    Yoda payback

    LMAO by the end

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Spawny Get says:

    Prager U’s previous classic which got him a fine beating. It’s the original video with a torrent of response videos.

    disgusting fucking idiot

    Like

  9. thedeti says:

    “So why is it so difficult to criticize women?”

    The two criticisms I mentioned at Dalrocks are the ones which come up specifically with evangelical Christians, in Churchianity/Cuckstianity. (1) Women aren’t the problem; and (2) men are pussies, terrified of what women and other men will do/say to them if they do criticize women.

    Another possibility is that most men fear getting a reputation as an asshole who calls women out. Men are told if they are perceived as assholes, women won’t like them and they won’t get sex.

    It seems to work exactly the opposite. Assholes finish first and get sex with women. Assholes get everything else too: money, power, jobs, work, influence, clout. Especially in a world where “asshole” means “man who stands up for himself and refuses to take bullshit.”

    That, of course, tells us that more men need to incorporate more asshole into their lives.

    A second reason , related to one of the reasons mentioned in my comment and FarmBoy’s post, is the differing “ingroups” and their nature. Men are in tribes, women are in herds. There’s a Team Woman; there is no Team Man. There are only tribes of men.

    Notice that whenever a man is criticized, usually its the men from his own tribe doing the criticizing, and usually its for the purpose of getting him with the program. Because if he doesn’t, he’ll be out of the tribe. Men from other tribes don’t know enough about the guy to say anything about him.

    It’s very different with women. Whenever a woman is criticized, from any source, or hurt, or ailing, all the women around her, no matter their affiliations, immediately close ranks around the ailing/criticized woman. ALL women do this, no matter where or what they are. Because all women feel deep kinship with all other women.

    The evangelical Christian virgin defends the immoral, disease ridden slut. The pro-life housewife with 10 kids defends the nasty slut who’s had 3 abortions. The old woman defends the young, and vice versa. The married woman defends the young single naïve woman and the divorced woman. The virtue signaling white woman defends the black woman (but not too much vice versa, because race trumps everything else). The married woman defends the divorced woman. The faithful woman defends the adulteress. And so on. All women defend all other women.

    I think this is a relic of evobio and evopsych, probably – eggs are expensive. We need every woman we can get to have babies and propagate the species, and to that end, every woman, every single solitary woman, MUST be saved and her life preserved at all costs. She will not be expelled from the herd no matter what she does or who she is, because goddamn it, we need her to have babies and take care of the young kids and the menfolk. We need every single one of the women we’ve got. None can be spared, none can be expended.

    Liked by 3 people

  10. Yoda says:

    Mr Blair insists the British public voted to leave the European Union based on “imperfect knowledge” and they have the “right to change their mind”.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2017/02/17/rise-brexit-tony-blair-tells-pro-eu-brits/

    Liked by 1 person

  11. RichardP says:

    @ fuzzie: “Women complain and criticize men all day long, but we can’t say “boo”.

    First, ditto deti.

    Second – it’s not that men can’t say boo, it’s that saying boo does no good. Men who have lived with women for a while come to understand this. Men are dogs and women are cats. Dogs respond to commands. Cats don’t. Command all you want. That won’t change the nature of cats.

    In the recent past, someone at Rational Male or Dalrock made a comment about this situation that resonated with me, roughly paraphrased: you manage women; you don’t command them. In other words, you “husband” them, in the truest meaning of the word. Manage situations, not the woman, in a way to get the response that you desire from the woman.

    I think Rudyard Kipling’s poem “The Female of the Species” gets this more right than wrong:
    The Female of the Species

    “So it comes that Man, the coward, when he gathers to confer
    With his fellow-braves in council, dare not leave a place for her
    Where, at war with Life and Conscience, he uplifts his erring hands
    To some God of Abstract Justice—which no woman understands.”

    As laid out by deti above, men criticize each other as a means of encouraging adherence to a standard / abstract justice. Most men understand the standard, and so will respond to the criticism from other men. They understand on some level that the criticism is designed to help them grow / make them better.

    Women understand no such thing. Therefore, they must be “managed” or husbanded differently. To expect pastors to deal with women in the church the same as they deal with men, and get the same results, is foolishness.

    Liked by 3 people

  12. RichardP says:

    Still working on getting this link thing right.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Spawny Get says:

    I didn’t notice any concern about “imperfect knowledge” when the remainscum were lying through their teeth about the implications of leave at every term (nuclear war, economic collapse, racism). That they have managed to raise a meme that the brexiteers were the ones telling lies absolutely dumbfounds me. They put a special spin on the banner put on a bus to suggest that brexiteers (of one of the brexit movements) said that all £350m would go to the NHS if we left.

    The banner’s fair reading is that if we left the EU then the membership fees would be available to spend on what the country wanted to spend it on. And that’s no lie. The reality is that we should just stop printing the fucking money at all.

    Liked by 2 people

  14. Spawny Get says:

    Great question

    illogical • a few seconds ago
    Any truth in the rumour that one of The Donald’s cost cutting plans for his new Boeing Air Force One is an outside toilet for CNN and BBC journalists?

    Liked by 2 people

  15. Spawny Get says:

    Men’s definition of bravery

    Guardian’s Quitter • 14 minutes ago
    Lieutenant Peter Scawen Watkinson Roberts VC,
    Petty Officer Thomas William Gould VC

    On 16 February 1942 north of Crete, in the Mediterranean, HM Submarine Thrasher, after attacking and sinking a supply ship, was itself attacked. Thrasher was subjected to a three-hour depth charge attack and aerial bombing.

    Later, after surfacing, two unexploded bombs were discovered in the gun-casing. Petty officer Gould and Lieutenant Roberts removed the first one without too much difficulty, but the second bomb had penetrated the side plating of the gun emplacement, and then the deck casing above the pressure hull. Roberts and Gould entered the confined space (which was no more than 2 ft high in places), and lying flat, wormed past deck supports, battery ventilators, and drop bollards. The petty officer then lay on his back with the 150 lb bomb in his arms while the Williams dragged him along by the shoulders. “It was then a matter of the two of us, lying horizontally, pushing and pulling the bomb back through the casing. It was pitch black and the bomb was making this horrible ticking noise while the submarine was being buffeted by the waves”. Meanwhile, Thrasher was surfaced, stationary, and close inshore to enemy waters. If the submarine was forced to crash dive, both men would
    drown. It was 50 minutes before they got the bomb clear, wrapped it in sacking, and dropped it over the side.

    Not exactly the same as say…changing your hair colour, is it?

    Liked by 2 people

  16. Yoda says:

    Wonder what is wrong with this picture I do…

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Yoda says:

    Many of the marchers wore pink “ pussyhats,” donned pink vagina costumes, carried the signs that depicted uteruses holding up middle fingers or saying things like “Pussies Against Fascism”, and also held posters that said things like “Bow to My Magical Vagina,” “Vaginas Brought You Into the World, Vaginas Will Vote You Out,” “Leave it to the Beavers,” and “Viva la Vulva.”
    The message being sent here is that being a woman is not only synonymous with, but also contingent upon, having a vagina. The pussy hats and vagina costumes were intended to bond women together, because they operate under the assumption that womanhood is defined by genitalia.

    But this biological essentialism is nothing more than cissexism, because it conflates gender with genitals and reinforces the idea that there are only two genders. And, by upholding the gender binary in this way, the pussy hats and uterus signs are also transmisogynistic, because they discriminate against trans women and gender nonconforming people. They tell transgender women that they are not “real women” because they do not have vaginas.

    https://pjmedia.com/trending/2017/02/16/why-the-womens-march-failed-women/

    Liked by 2 people

  18. mgtowhorseman says:

    agree w Deti

    Short version.
    If you want something…Take It.

    No one will stop you and others will offer you even more stuff out of desire or respect.

    Like

  19. Spawny Get says:

    Liked by 2 people

  20. Spawny Get says:

    Raising the bar

    Liked by 2 people

  21. thedeti says:

    @ Master Yoda:

    “Many of the marchers wore pink “ pussyhats,” donned pink vagina costumes”

    And notice the women at the marches. From all walks of life and all philosophies. Old, young, rich, poor, all colors, all ages, professionals, working class, underclass, Christian, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, atheist.

    All Team Woman. Because Team Woman trumps all. Except race. White women are not allowed to speak to issues pertaining to women of other races, cuz that’s raciss. But women of color (WOCs) are allowed to say anything they want to white women about the female condition.

    Liked by 4 people

  22. Spawny Get says:

    A different age, my age

    Was it sooo bad back then?

    Liked by 2 people

  23. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Spawny Get,
    I like the way Charley the cat eats fish.

    I have to take issue with what Deti said. While it has always been difficult to criticize women, it had gotten ridiculous since all the constraints have been lifted on female sexuality. Now, Team Woman won’t hold up their end to keep women in line. Currently, what we have is a situation with no restrictions on women at all. A woman in the House of Lords is calling for women’s prisons to be closed FFS. At the same time, men are being maximally constrained. I think Rollo would call this the triumph of the Female Imperative. I hope that it can’t last.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Stephanie says:

    It’s not “all women” that band together and come to the aid of any woman being criticized no matter what. Maybe if you’re a part of their particular “herd…”? I don’t know… but it’s definitely not “all women,” that this idea applies to.

    A good example would be the conservative women who are firm about their beliefs. The band of diverse women that may make up the leftist feminists, actually enjoy watching a conservative woman’s demise and harming them in any way – or mocking them when something tragic does happen. So no… it doesn’t apply to any and all woman of any creed. Maybe there are a few examples of feminists coming to the aid of conservative women being criticized, but overall it doesn’t stand up against the multitude of examples of feminist women trying to ruin the lives of conservative women. Maybe they’re just different “herds?” Definitely do not know.

    And many conservative women do NOT come to aid of feminist women being criticized if they deem that what the woman is doing is actually wrong.

    So it seems women are a little more complex than just always supporting each other no matter what. But again, maybe it more applies to herds of different types.

    Liked by 2 people

  25. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It’s Friday. I will attempt Tarn bait.

    Like

  26. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Sorry, I meant to link this one.

    Like

  27. Spawny Get says:

    Rather an unpleasant character

    Liked by 2 people

  28. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Spawny Get,
    There were enough clues that the magazine cover was a fake, but it might sell if printed.
    That is scary.

    Liked by 1 person

  29. Yoda says:

    In an impassioned address Friday, Pope Francis denied the existence of Islamic terrorism, while simultaneously asserting that “the ecological crisis is real.”

    http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2017/02/17/pope-francis-muslim-terrorism-not-exist/

    Liked by 3 people

  30. SFC Ton says:

    It’s easy to call women to account if you have man parts but bitches always back bitches and want is Prager etc all if not bitches?

    Liked by 2 people

  31. Spawny Get says:

    Extinction level event?

    Liked by 2 people

  32. SFC Ton says:

    The other problem is betas over value women. Prager etc all are beta as beta gets so they fail to realize women lack value beyond procreational sex, recreational sex and domestic chores.

    Like

  33. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    Maybe things were clearer for Urban II than for Francis. Urban II could think in terms of making war on nation states.

    Like

  34. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    Hugh de Payens started the Poor Knights of Christ with only eight other guys.

    Like

  35. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Were it were so.

    Like

  36. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Stop me before I link again!

    Liked by 1 person

  37. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I had to remind myself of the topic of this post, we have been off topic that long. Does anyone else think that offering criticism to women is, at best. a waste of effort and, usually, an invitation for abuse?

    Like

  38. Yoda says:

    Hillary likes to be told what to do not

    Liked by 1 person

  39. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    “Hillary likes to be told what to do not.”
    This may be chalked up to her vanity. The ability to take direction comes with humility. I may be on to something huge here.

    Liked by 1 person

  40. Yoda says:

    “The more America sees of Lena Dunham, the fewer votes the party is ever going to get,” he said

    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/milo-yiannopoulos-talks-leslie-jones-lena-dunham-trump-real-time-all-i-care-is-free-speech-9772

    Liked by 1 person

  41. Ame says:

    “But no, we can’t have that. We cannot have anyone correcting or criticizing women. Unless it’s another woman.”

    few women take correction or criticism from anyone, including other women – sometimes especially other women. women will herd together and dis the one correcting them in a nano-second.

    i loved my late Mentor. she was an amazing woman, and i still miss her dearly after ten years. i would tell her of other women i thought could benefit from her mentor-ship, and she would always stop me and ask if they *really* wanted to learn. she was in her 70’s, and she’d already learned well that few women really and truly want correction and instruction. sadly not one woman i thought could benefit from her instruction was willing to be mentored.

    – – –

    i’ve been kicked out of the herd a time or two for not following along blindly. i don’t like not being a part of the herd. i miss it.

    Liked by 4 people

  42. Spawny Get says:

    Could be amusing (not Ton, but maybe Ton-Spawn?)

    Liked by 2 people

  43. Spawny Get says:

    So good.

    Liked by 1 person

  44. Yoda says:

    Big boobs she has

    Liked by 2 people

  45. SFC Ton says:

    Them was the good old days of the Democrats when they actually gave a shit about the liberty and prosperity of White folks and stood for things like small government

    Like

  46. Spawny Get says:

    Ton, if you can remember those days then we’re both getting very old.

    Like

  47. Yoda says:

    The embattled leader says Europe has an obligation to take more displaced people from Syria and Iraq.

    She also said Islam “is not the cause of terrorism” and that combatting extremism needs the cooperation of Muslim countries.

    http://www.infowars.com/merkel-europe-needs-more-muslim-migrants/

    Liked by 1 person

  48. Stephanie says:

    “i’ve been kicked out of the herd a time or two for not following along blindly. i don’t like not being a part of the herd. i miss it.”

    ^Yea… it doesn’t apply to “all women” all of the time. If you’re conservative and vocal about your beliefs, the feminist leftists or liberal (fake) Christian women will absolutely *not* back you or support you.

    And I knew quite a few women that are strong Christians that were totally repulsed by the abortion marchers’ purpose there, but also their behavior.

    Stefan Molyneaux talks about how conservative women who actually do love their husbands see the “herd” thinking differently than normal more feminist-leaning women do. They see it as trying to take away stuff from their husband (his income for one thing), and they’re actually more on “team my husband,” than “team woman.”

    So no… it just doesn’t apply to all women all of the time. The left treats conservative women like they aren’t women at all – it’s pretty obvious.

    Liked by 4 people

  49. Stephanie says:

    You can see it in the election results as well. How SO MANY women voted for Trump and rejected rallying behind Hillary just because she was a woman.

    Liked by 2 people

  50. Stephanie says:

    And yikes!!!! If a wife is choosing the side of Team Woman over “Team My Husband,” and backing or supporting another woman no matter what she’s engaging in, then you can definitely see where her loyalty lies. It’s not with her husband!!!!

    Again… Stefan talks about this in a video and explains it all pretty well.

    Liked by 2 people

  51. SFC Ton says:

    Naw Spawny the transition started before I was born, but didn’t get into full swing until right before I was born. I know about it from history, the kind you read and the kind your kind tell you about

    Liked by 2 people

  52. Spawny Get says:

    Sadly my Dad isn’t available to talk about the realities of his life. I would like those tales. And his dad’s.

    Liked by 2 people

  53. Farm Boy says:

    There is a new post

    Like

  54. […] Frequent Commenter Ame stated […]

    Like

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