We discussed men’s desire for respect here. From the comments,
Sunshine:
Doesn’t Ton always say masculinity has to do with the ability to inflict violence? Maybe that is why video games are so appealing; it is playacting at asserting one’s will through the use of imaginary violence. You’d think feminists would be happy about that, but no. They always have to have something to bitch about, I guess.
mgtowhorseman:
Self respect is
Being able to do something useful, to build, to fix, to create. To say “I made that, I got it working.”
Using your back and your arms and your legs to accomplish something. Not lifting little pieces of iron in a room for forty minutes. “I walked the Appalachian (5 miles but it was the Appalachian)”
Helping when it really needs to be done and knowing you are able to next time. “Yeah we dug that guy out of the ditch. Good thing I heard him slide off in this blizzard.”
Doing what is right for yourself. Not to a set of laws or a deity. “Hey buddy, you dropped your wallet six blocks back, here ya go. cheers.”
Answering to yourself only. Not to please or impress or spite or avoid anyone or any group. “Yeah I sometimes ride a donkey named Earl. So, it gives him purpose. I also fence, write children’s books, thru hiked the Pacific Crest Now, and likely the only caucasian libertarian taoist MGTOW Canadian you are going to meet. Now go away little person.”
Ton:
Self respect comes from over coming hardships. The potential for lose due to such hardships, the better it is for the soul…. though the more it sucks at the time
People respect business men because they risk money and social standing. People respect MMA fighters because they risk life, limb and long term health.
Nothing is at stake with video games, unless you are gambling large sums of money on one. Otherwise no risk to life, limb or long term health, or wealth/ social status.
From the above suggestions, we have the ability to do violence, general accomplishments, doing what is right for yourself, overcoming hardships and challenges, and taking risks.
From the above, it would seem that there are many paths to respect. Probably it depends on the person. Furthermore, it also probably depends on the culture that one was raised in and now lives in. The young video gamer types grew up in a culture that totally cares little for males. With no respect to be had, they created their own. Perhaps this is a key idea; that men will find a way to obtain respect. If there is a respect vacuum, they will create a way to fill it. The same likely goes for MGTOWs in general.
P.S. Note that being a father was once a fine path to respect. The idea was that society rewarded men for being good fathers, for preparing the next generation well. Society used respect to achieve its goals. Oddly enough, this is no more.
I wonder how much added bonus there was for men because they were doing something “for the good of society” when raising children well…
Did that make this type of respect more desirable than others? Compared to the ones in the OP?
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How important is the usefulness of what men do with respect to respect?
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https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/788150475258343424
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Usefulness is the key to exploiting a man. Guard against exploitation via an appeal to this one must
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Usefulness is the key to exploiting a man. Guard against exploitation via an appeal to this one must
Gloroius patriarch weighed in he did.
Agree people do?
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Respect is the reward men give other men for doing something they see as worthy or challenging.
Even the old father etc. came from men to men. Society was always other men or the “other men” as perceived via the media.
Lots of things came from/come from women …appreciation, support, etc. but not respect.
An element of respect is you know its hard what I did, you can relate and hence you give me kudos for doing it as a fellow “achiever” and I earn a place in your heirarchy, your pack.
Women are rarely fellow achievers and so they do not grant respect or place in the hierarchy. a value maybe but not the place.
Its why shaming really doesnt work. Other than mean words you are not taking away my place with other men. Remove a reward maybe but not remove my place I have earned.
p.s. “disrespect” does NOT mean take away your respect of me. It means you are not Acknowledging the place we both know I have earned and therefore are not acknowledging my place in the pack.
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And itz true it is situational. Watch a group of men move from thing to thing. The leadership changes.
Same group of guys.
At work they follow the experience of the old man
At shinny at lunch they follow the team captain
On the weekend building a deck they follow the handyman.
It changes. quickly. efficiently. subtly.
Tons group combat prowess rules. Mostly vets. I get it.
My gang its strength and practical skills cause we are farmers.
I can relate to Ton as a fellow soldier.
I might not agree with all his values or approaches.
I cant fathom his environment as a Canadian, its different.
But I respect him.
And in doing so grant him his due.
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It’s useful to clean the kitchen but it doesn’t garner respect
Jumping your bike over Snake River Canyon is pretty useless but garners you mad respect… and generates tingles
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evel_Knievel
If respecting father’s was natural we wouldn’t need a commandment telling us to do so.
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If respecting father’s was natural we wouldn’t need a commandment telling us to do so.
One of the functions of the Evil Patriarchy this was
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I have just taken delivery of my new Evil Patriarchy Jet
Weird looking mofo
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Regarding the competence thing, the film I mentioned on the old thread ’13 Hours’, it was a pleasure to see a group of capable men at work as a team. And they came together as a team without HR’s team building efforts or a PR campaign showing a brighter future through a shared dream. i.e. no wankers or women involved (though one did fetch the sandwiches and help in first aid…which is nice).
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Candor, courage, technical and tactical competency
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Number one reason not to vote for Hilary is……
She has a vagina
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Ton, and it’s haunted by all the people that she’s got killed
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Currently I’m taking corn and beans out for a friend’s farms. We go from 8 a.m. to midnight or 1, provided it’s dry enough. I drive a four wheel drive Deere with a grain catch-cart, or a Volvo semi-truck with a 475 hp Detroit. This work pays $12-$15/hour. (One of the crew is a research chemist for Dupont/Pioneer; he takes VACATION time to get in the fields for 1/10th his lab salary.) I get more respect from the other guys than I ever got delivering a classified briefing to a three letter agency.
My theory is that the white collar, executive workstyle, and lifestyle, is better at generating envy (envy for social or professional status, financial resources, the perks that are tossed around like candy) than it is at inducing respect. The exception to this speculation is that other men who had attempted and accomplished similar things tended to form a near-blood bond. (Everybody wants to be the boss, until the responsibilities and costs are enumerated.) Something about that life I always found emasculating, except with the guys, again, who knew the difficulty and price one paid in one’s personal life.
The problem with envy in the workplace is it turns grown men, sometimes, into political little bitches. I had one Notre Dame/Chicago MBA in my last company, and he did great work — when he wasn’t concern trolling with staff or colleagues or me. I tried for three years to give him a P&L, so he could demonstrate his superior capabilities, but he preferred to lobby for more money and a more family friendly environment, and express his discomfort when someone said “fuck” in a senior staff meeting.
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Business and respect
My limited experience is if you started the company or the company is in a traditionally masculine sphere, you garner more respect. A guy who owns a 40 million a year construction company he built from the ground up garners more respect then the guy who built a 40 million a year accounting company from the ground up, even if the accounting firm nets more cash. Both are respected more then a guy with an MBA who is running a 400 million dollar investment account
But I would defer to BV’s more extensive experience if he says otherwise
I also think middle class/ working class dudes and those who own companies made out of such dudes know how to respect men in a way others do not
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How will T affect the boys? Eeek, masculinity might make a comeback!!! (Clutching pearls.) https://www.google.com/amp/mobile.nytimes.com/2016/10/18/upshot/what-our-sons-are-learning-from-donald-trump.amp.html
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^^^^ Watch This ^^^^
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Do Americans only respect the outlier (seemed to be the theme of 7 years in Tibet)? Or am I just that extremely sheltered, mostly associating with tradcon people?
Being a father and a provider is enough to be considered respectable and if you’re not really weird otherwise, also admirable. You’re more likely to get a job if you’re a family man. Single men will be more polite to you, are more likely to ask your advice. Parents of family men redirect their meddling to their daughters in law, but leave the men alone (O deflect all meddling by saying it’s my husbands decision) That’s true for us, anyway.
The outliers are just not considered to be better than the ones who are successful at a more easy pace. A man who refuses a better position to be able to have more free time and a relaxed life is considered wise, as long as he is not struggling financially.
Cultural differences?
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Americans respect celebrities they do
Unfortunate this is
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Hillary Clinton’s sense of style has been criticized for as long as she has been on the national political scene. One of the uglier forms this mockery has taken, most often in barbed private jokes and comments but occasionally openly by anti-gay activists, has been the “rumors” of secret lesbianism, supposedly evidenced by her pantsuits and her (actually not always full-throated) support of gay rights. Suggestions that Hillary Clinton is or might be a lesbian rightly belong where I first heard them: in the hallways of a middle school, coming out the mouths of homophobic pre-teens. Still, if Clinton were a lesbian, I’d be proud to claim her fashion sense. Clinton embodies something many lesbians accomplish effortlessly: She dresses in a way that does not cater to, or even consider, the male gaze. Clinton has never sought to make herself a sexual object to please straight men, even when such men have mocked and insulted her for having the temerity not to
https://pjmedia.com/trending/2016/01/15/liberal-slate-hillary-totally-dresses-like-a-lesbian/
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Pretty sure that fembots can work out a way for every action by a woman to be:
A) empowering. Like dressing in a Maoist pantsuit.
B) a sign of oppression. Like being considered a fashion disaster.
Often both at the same time. It’s a gift they have.
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America is a big place so trying to nail down who respects what out of 300 million plus people is a bit like nailing jello to the wall
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Milo, you have some splainin’ to do
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/oct/18/did-trolls-cost-twitter-35bn
Bwahahaha
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Often both at the same time. It’s a gift they have.
Being incoherent a gift it is?
Maybe if good boobs you do have
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He wears it better. And he looks more healthy, even though he died some ways back
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A DNC bus emblazoned with Hillary Clinton insignia spewed raw sewage and human feces all over the road after the bus inexplicably stopped in front of an auto parts store and literally let it rip
http://heatst.com/politics/clinton-campaign-bus-dumps-human-waste-on-small-town-georgia-road/
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The late Michael Kelly nailed it in 1993, when he wrote a New York Times Magazine profile of her titled “Saint Hillary.” It opened:
“Since she discovered, at the age of 14, that for people less fortunate than herself the world could be very cruel, Hillary Rodham Clinton has harbored an ambition so large that it can scarcely be grasped.
She would like to make things right.
She is 45 now [how time flies! — Tusk] and she knows that the earnest idealisms of a child of the 1960’s may strike some people as naive or trite or grandiose. But she holds to them without any apparent sense of irony or inadequacy.”
She wants to “make things right”–that is, she wants to make us right.
And right now we’re all so, so wrong to her.
That’s why it was so natural (and telling, and terrifying) for her to call her political enemies “irredeemable.”
That’s why she sees enemies and conspiracies behind every bush.
http://ace.mu.nu/archives/366364.php
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BV –
“I get more respect from the other guys than I ever got delivering a classified briefing to a three letter agency.
My theory is that the white collar, executive workstyle, and lifestyle, is better at generating envy (envy for social or professional status, financial resources, the perks that are tossed around like candy) than it is at inducing respect.”
– – – – –
this is very interesting, and i believe your theory. my husband works two jobs … one considered ‘white collar’ and the other considered ‘blue collar.’ he garners significantly more respect from the latter than the former across the board.
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Spawny –
Spawny Get says:
18 October, 2016 at 1:07 pm
the Bible says to forgive; it never says we are to forget.
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Ton –
“Both are respected more then a guy with an MBA who is running a 400 million dollar investment account.”
i believe it … b/c very few can understand all the stuff with numbers that those guys (women) pull and manipulate. they’re usually workaholics, too. how does a man who lives/works with numbers all the time ‘do’ anything that earns respect?
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A female critique of H’s actions for women in the Middle East, Eurpoe, and the world…
http://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/presidential-campaign/301513-from-libya-to-orlando-following-hillarys-scorched
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Some insight here there is
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Kinda makes Hillary look domestic it does
An improvement this would be
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https://infogalactic.com/info/List_of_people_censored_by_Twitter
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The closer one gets to being the only one who understands what they do, the closer one gets to having no one to congratulate them on a job well done. Men who work with their legs and their arms and their backs are many. So – many understand what it takes to do a job well done that way. So – multiple sources for respect. For MBA number crunchers or discoverers of the double-helix, and others who work with their minds, not so much.
If you study intrinsic versus extrinsic motivation (e.g. Attribution Theory), you will know that most who work with their minds (e.g., Einstein, etc.) have an internal motivation and don’t need or want praise from other, lesser, minds (You dare praise me? You don’t even know the half of what I did!). The mind worker knows when he does well, and realizes that not many others are qualified to know that also. That sort of thinking doesn’t much exist among farmers and garbage collectors of old. It probably does exist to some extent among those who now plow and plant with a computer.
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Wall Street elites paid Hillary around two hundred grand a pop to distinguish her public malarkey from her guiding private views.
Knowing Hillary’s genuine policy goals is very valuable to investors and business planners. Wall Street toffs who pay her top dollar speaking fees receive off the record insider info American proles don’t get to hear. The private face-to-face venues add value. Hillary meets the men and women who paid her the big bucks. Yup, direct personal access.
Wise guys call it pay to play. Is it felony bribery? Not by the letter of the law
http://observer.com/2016/10/2016-tabloid-simplicity-public-and-private-positions-vs-private-parts/
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RichardP –
i can see that to be true to some extent. my first husband, with his finance mba, certainly thought he was ‘better than’ any blue collar worker of any kind. as a matter of fact (remember, i live in Texas), the 2nd house we built … we had picked out the lot we wanted, but before they broke ground, the people moved into the house across the alley, and they had a work pick up truck. he decided he didn’t want to live behind anyone like *that*, so we switched lots. he was very condescending 😦
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Farm Boy,
Please continue with the “Rigging the Election” videos. This is much worse than 1972.
Yoda,
That is one thing that can be said of Hillary. She never dressed to look good to men. That is consistant.
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The big advances come from the numbers men mate. I don’t understand the numbers on Cillo’s plans but at least I respect the numbers men. Feminists poopoo the numbers men and those silly bitchdes couldn’t build a log shithouse in a pine forest mate.
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I have been starting to suspect H’s choice in garb is to conform subtly to middle eastern female garb? Total coverage…
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Elbows are the new breasts!?!?! Gosh I hope not…
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Something to distract us from the Presidential election, madness from Ontario brought to you by Liberals.
It’s like 1984 and Brave New World all mashed up.
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Choicy!
Good to see you! I was worried that we may not see any from the down under contingent. Cill has been silent for a while. Molly must be riding her motorcycle. And Horse and Dog never doid post.
I like your graphic insults. They would have trouble getting pee out of a boot, even if instructions were on the heel.
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Respect here there is not
http://heatst.com/politics/twitter-obama-woke-pink-jet/
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Yoda,
Given all that we have to put up with in October, I have to wonder how much mony really does go to researching a cure for cancer? At a guess,l it should be embarrassingly little.
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So what happens when the bleeding hearted left demands that we let the children in from the Calais (France) refugee camps in. And the right-in-name-only fucktards lack the balls to to speak truth unto the moron masses?
You get the latest scandal that’s currently hitting the news, or the news that reports what’s actually going on
http://linkis.com/www.dailymail.co.uk/Ct6BH
Prime Minister Teresa May was a complete disaster as Home Secretary (post that is supposed to control immigration) as she talked tough but only did things that made it worse. Her replacement is even worse. Another woman promoted far beyond any ability…Amber Rudd.
There’s a web site that estimates the age of a person from a photo. Some of these ‘children’ were estimated to be in their late thirties.
A ‘child’
The pols still don’t understand that these lies stoke things up. Your media (and ours) coverage of Trump and the unconvicted felon show that the media is gone as a credible source of information even on topics central to the running of a healthy society.
Media luvvies (aka the Wankerati) have been getting a kicking on twitter for their virtue signaling. The public mood isn’t good.
This isn’t going to end well.
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One pol tweeted her concern that images of ‘children’ were being published in the media, why no concern?
One awaits the conviction of someone for posting an image of a 30+ yo claiming to be a child. Popcorn time
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All this just as UKIP has implded, what unfortunate timing /sarc
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This is rather strange
It’s real, this is a major betting company
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Kent is the county where Calais refugees land
http://www.kentonline.co.uk/canterbury/news/immigrants-in-their-20s-put-25379/
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In other piss-boiling news
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One to share around?
http://anodtothegods.com/?p=17893
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Great post
http://anodtothegods.com/?p=17839
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Spawny Get,
I hope that UKIP can get it together. Considering how much is riding on them, they should out of national pride.
As for these men lying about thei age, that should be grounds for depotation in itself. Send them wherever they said they came from. Push them out the back of C-130, but get them out.
The other day, Amy Schumer made some bad comments about Donald Trump in one of her performances. Two hundred people walked out. That betting house may be backing the wrong horse.
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Maybe a music video will cheer up our Glorius Patriarch?
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Shouldn’t this be worrying?
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-18/time-coup-faith-military-soars-trust-media-politicians-plunges
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I hadn’t known that about religious leaders but, the three below that have been reported on.
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Spawny Get,
I don’t want to see a war with Russia. Is that from Stefan Molyneaux? I will watch it. All the graphs are grim. All of them can be attributed to feminism indirectly.
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Megyn has had it in for Trump since he announced. I am surprised that she is only slipping now. Her fans must be very loyal and she is good looking but, I never went out of my way to watch her.
I knew that about Hillary. Thyat should have beeen the nd of her career in Washington.
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As usual, BV and Ton have it pretty much right. (Thought I’d get this in before this thread completely devolves into shitposting.)
I did some manual labor for the county road and bridge crews between college and grad school. I worked cleaning up their shop, cleaning and maintaining the grounds, taking care of the crews’ trucks, and otherwise doing pretty much everything else they told me to do, so I could make a little money while at home before I went to more school. I learned how to do what they told me to do. I did the work they told me to do, and then some.
If you learned how to take care of their shit and do a good job at it, they gave you some respect. If you didn’t, you were a retarded pussy bitch.
I got treated a hell of a lot better for that work than I ever did working for men earning $300k a year writing briefs and representing people in courtrooms. And at the time I got to that level I was earning much more as an attorney than I ever did mowing grounds and changing operating fluids in work trucks.
Yes, it’s more “envy” than respect. It’s also more “deference” than respect. I work in a law firm in what you might consider middle management. The lawyers junior to me “defer” to me. Most of them don’t “respect” me in terms of admiration for accomplishment or skill. They “defer” because they have to. In much the same way, I don’t “respect” most superiors. There are very, very few lawyers I know whom I “respect” for accomplishment or skill. I “defer” to them because I have to, in order to keep the organization running smoothly and to get the work done that needs done. I also respect the lawyers who have built this business and earned the goodwill and business of top clients. That is no easy feat, and to build a business from nothing and keep it going is difficult. Most men cannot do it.
In terms of envy – yeah, that exists. Senior management at most law firms earns very, very good money. Most lawyers get into this profession for the money. Most lawyers don’t get to senior management, and they don’t earn like senior management does. So what drives the business most of the time is envy and deference, hopefully more of the latter than the former.
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“(Thought I’d get this in before this thread completely devolves into shitposting.)”
Now that we’re post watershed…
Trigger warning for images of budgie smuggling (maybe Choicy can explain)
http://newsbeat.co.ke/gossip/irrefutable-scientific-proof-michelle-obama-is-indeed-a-man/
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@ Spawny
Ha.
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As I’m sure that you know…I was laughing as I typed it 😉 No problems here
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thedeti –
“Yes, it’s more “envy” than respect. It’s also more “deference” than respect.”
– – –
oh.my.word! that is sooo true! my first husband was insanely, INSANELY, jealous of those above him and/or who made more money than him. it consumed him. i never got it, but it was real. i can only think of one man above him whom he respected.
it’s like they know that the path to the top is not simply merit-based, so where’s the respect in that? they know those tickets to the super bowl given out so freely are just bribes for future endeavors … that there’s nothing one did to ‘earn’ them.
ugh. though i hate divorce with a passion and never wanted my family fractured, i’ve not missed all the bs that comes from that world (or listening to him whine behind closed doors about those who had more/were higher than he).
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It’s true, there is something very primal about physical labor, working hard, and respect.
I respect lawyers because I know they spend a long time in school and they can help one navigate complicated legal stuff when necessary (like with biz) but it’s true that because the work is mostly mental and done in offices, it’s not perceived as “hard work” in the same way as being on a road crew.
Much of what I do involved physical hard work, and I am not one to sit back and let others do it. I always jump right in and work as hard or harder than anyone. This has earned me respect many times with the men on my crews. They often seemed surprised at first, then they get this look like, “Wow, that kicks ass!” 🙂
All that said, my wise uncle has a saying:
“When you are young you work with your back
When you are older, you work with your brain”
Or in other words, with age it gets harder and harder to do the physical labor at the pace one once could. I have noticed this myself in the past two harvests. Stuff I used to be able to do morning to night no problem, I was starting to feel my limits. Sux getting older! Makes me wish I had started having kids earlier so I would not have some strapping 20 some year old sons (or son in laws) to help!
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New post at my place, many of you have read this comment from a guy at Vox already but I wish I could print it out and paste it all over the country! This really needs to go viral, it lays it out in such a way even the voter barely paying attention can understand! https://notesfromaredpillgirl.com/2016/10/19/a-crossroads/
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Deti’s comment gave me pause. Now that I think about it, I’ve only had respect for one boss in my professional life (IT/development). It was a guy that could do my job, as well as the jobs of anyone on his team. He wouldn’t lie to you, and would simply say “I can’t comment,” when necessary. If a project was running behind, he’d dig in with the rest of the team and get it back on track. If he had a problem with you, he’d tell you, tell you why it was a problem, and what needed to happen for the problem to be fixed. I loved working for that guy, and did some of my best work while working for him.
My other bosses? Most will lie to your face without even making it believable. That’s assuming they’re not too stupid to realize they need to lie. And knowing the job? They only know ass kissing and blame shifting. They get my contempt, not my envy.
But that one boss was a good one. Glad I worked with him.
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Rumoured to be a good watch once it gets going
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This guy talks sense, as far as I’ve got anyway
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https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/10/calais-jungle-child-refugee-conundrum/
Same as the rinodems are doing to you
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Remember me mentioning a 99 flake to go in Ton’s ice cream car?
Here’s an old ad…filth I tells yer. And it’s from UK tv fifty years ago
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Thirty years later, this campaign I do remember. Kinda flakey
Also
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Just a view of the future, and what HRC will do to the rest of the country.
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http://truthfeed.com/video-cnn-anchors-look-very-uncomfortable-sitting-amongst-a-sea-of-trump-signs/30630/
They must have hated that
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Glad to she’s on the mend
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Focused in on the microphone she is.
An example of her single mindedness this would be
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[…] Spawny Get on The Elements Of Respect […]
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A new post there is
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Madonna is pledging to perform oral sex on voters who cast their ballots for Hillary Clinton.
http://thehill.com/blogs/in-the-know/301780-madonna-pledges-oral-sex-for-clinton-voters
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Respect lawyers….. that seems like a vile concept
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Watch you should
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Why does everything need to be radical?
It’s also funny that Bob Dylan is one of them, a leftist icon and they aren’t happy one of their own didn’t win
I wonder how many examples of its anti White nature do White folks need before they will walk away from leftsm
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