2% of Men 18-24 Feel Masculine


This post is trying to pick up where this Breitbart piece left off and, hopefully, start a good discussion about the deleterious effects of misandry.

I don’t know what Breitbart will tolerate, so I will just leave the link. You have to read it or you’ll be lost from the start. It is brief.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/20/yougov-masculine-poll/

What struck me was the first chart. Older men, who haven’t grown up in oceans of bad press about men, are more comfortable self identifying as masculine. Also, they have lived longer and had more opportunity to test their limits. From a high of 56% among the 65+ year olds, it dips to two percent among the 18-24 year olds. These poor kids have had it thrown at them from all sides and problably haven’t had a live in father for a role model. Feminist media, feminist dominated schools, and no men to see as worthy of emulating have taken their toll. While I think these kids can recover, living in a society that never misses an opportunity to bash men has done a number on them.

There is something else that I noticed. The pattern is similar among women. What I think is happening is that if the reputation of men is trashed, it also has an indirect effect on women. This had to be unanticipated.

There is plenty of stuff here to talk about. As  is normal around here, the meat of this will be in the comments.

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Posted in Feminism, UK, WTH
196 comments on “2% of Men 18-24 Feel Masculine
  1. Yoda says:

    What precisely “laddish” behavior it is?

    Like

  2. Yoda says:

    So what exactly “masculine” it is?

    Like

  3. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I did not expect to be published so soon. Thank you Farm Boy.
    As for “laddish” behavior, I was so disappointed when I realized they had removed the inkwells from desks in grade school. No dipping pigtails into them.
    As for “masculine”, that is subject to interpretation. Wouldn’t that be one of the benefits of going your own way? You get to decide for yourself, rather than letting someone else put you in their pigeonhole.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Yoda says:

    Schools need to make boys feel that “achieving” they are.
    By actually have them achieve done this can be

    Liked by 1 person

  5. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    That would work for a Jedi Master training padawans. I don’t think the current crop of teachers cares. It is sad that it has come to that. Feminism owns education.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    I have an idea, we’ll send all the boys to Degoba for education. Mrs. Yoda can keep them fed with sandwiches and you’ll make soup. We;ll need to bring all the Jedi Masters out of retirement.

    Liked by 2 people

  7. Yoda says:

    Society ask itself what it wants its men to be it should.
    Apparently it cares not

    Liked by 2 people

  8. Spawny Get says:

    Laddish is kind of like The Bonobos of Jersey Shore, or the penis wielding half thereof.

    Speaking of laddish, I just learned a new word whilst watching a sort of revenge porn for pensioners / death wish for the doddery / Comeback of the clan of coffin dodgers. The film was called ‘We still kill the old way’, strangely they’re making a sequel. The word is ‘skett’, which appears to appropriate to unfuckable slut. My culture is dead. Time to take off and nuke London from orbit, it’s the only way to be sure.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    I think that it may be more neglect with the boys than outright malice. As for the girld, they may not care much more for them.
    Years ago, I saw a video of Johntheother. A collegue’s son was haveing trouble in school. He advised her to put him in an all boys school. It worked.
    I am glad that I don’t have to worry about kids.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Spawny Get,
    Are dragons unreliable? I only saw the previews. I think Harriet Harman would give them indigestion.

    Liked by 2 people

  11. SFC Ton says:

    to paraphrase what I said over at Rollo’s

    of course they don’t feel masculine.They drive pussy ass cars to pussy ass jobs that hatchet wounds can do, then the go home and do pussy ass hobbies

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Tarnished says:

    So what exactly “masculine” it is?

    The complement to feminine. They are each what the other is not, or lacks in larger quantities.

    As for “laddish” behavior, I was so disappointed when I realized they had removed the inkwells from desks in grade school. No dipping pigtails into them.

    I can’t even remember a single time after kindergarten when I’ve seen a gal in pigtails (and it *wasn’t* for a slutty Halloween outfit).

    Liked by 2 people

  13. Tarnished says:

    Come to think of it, I wonder if pigtails became unpopular precisely for that reason…

    Liked by 2 people

  14. Tarnished says:

    Moving the chart over so it’s easier to reference. Apologies if it’s already being used as this post’s title picture…They’re never visible on mobile devices, so I don’t see exactly what all you computer users do.

    Liked by 4 people

  15. Tarnished says:

    I find it odd that only 2% of young men think of themselves as 100% masculine, and it only goes up to 18% if we add 0s and 1s together. Yet at the same time, 14% of young women are comfortable saying they’re 100% feminine, and it skyrockets to 39% when we use the 5s plus the 6s.

    It’s surprising, since a significant part of Feminism has always seemed to be very anti-tradcon female traits…but the chart shows young males are *still* hit harder by this stupidity.

    It’s pretty wretched out there.

    Liked by 4 people

  16. Yoda says:

    As older one gets, more masculine/feminine one does become?
    Or older generation always more masculine/feminine they were?

    Liked by 2 people

  17. Ame says:

    this is really sobering 😦

    Liked by 5 people

  18. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    It threw me for a loop that 18-24 women were adversely affected. My gut is telling me that this is linked. I guess that masculinity feeds femininity and vice versa.
    I would attribute most of the weak male response to self declared masculinity to the absence of fathers. I have heard of some communities that call themselves “man deserts” in the UK.

    I think pigtails have gone out of fashion but, they outlasted inkwells.

    Liked by 3 people

  19. Tarnished says:

    As older one gets, more masculine/feminine one does become?
    Or older generation always more masculine/feminine they were?

    Probably a combination thereof.

    Drastic alterations to traditional gender roles even as recent as 60 years ago weren’t as common place as they are in 2016. A lot has changed in such a relatively short span of time.

    But it is also very likely that, by the age of 65, the average man and woman has gotten their shit figured out. So few elders have the doubts that the younger generations without life experience still deal with.

    Liked by 2 people

  20. Tarnished says:

    It threw me for a loop that 18-24 women were adversely affected. My gut is telling me that this is linked. I guess that masculinity feeds femininity and vice versa.

    That’s a good hypothesis, Fuzzie. Could anyone out there be testing it though? My guess is no.

    I was also scratching my head over the fact that, while there’s some males and females in the 3s, there’s no further overlap. I wonder if there really wasn’t any, or if those responses were just thrown out altogether.

    Never even mind people like me…I’m honestly shocked that no high flying female doctors or lawyers considered themselves more masculine than a 3.

    Liked by 2 people

  21. Tarnished says:

    Fwiw, I’d place myself at a 2.

    What about everyone else?

    Like

  22. Yoda says:

    Oddly enough, as older one gets, hormone strength reduces it does.
    Yet older people more masculine/feminine they are.

    Liked by 1 person

  23. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    I would think that before a rate is set a battery of questions must be answered. Why bother? We are what we are.
    I have to agree with your assessment. By the time people have gotten to age 65, they should have all their identity issues long sorted out.
    I wouldn’t know how to test it. We’ll have to rely on anecdotes.

    Yoda,
    I have heard that and understand that it is pronounced in the elderly. It’s like kids. Lots of similarities at age eight, diverging with puberty.

    Like

  24. Yoda says:

    By the time people have gotten to age 65, they should have all their identity issues long sorted out.

    Perhaps with Mx. Jenner, true this is not.

    Liked by 4 people

  25. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    I think that marrying Kris and living with her daughters had a deleterious effect on his sanity. Those girls would drive the world’s sanest man crazy.
    But, yes, there will always be exceptions.

    Liked by 2 people

  26. Tarnished says:

    Masculinity
    noun
    possession of the qualities traditionally associated with men.
    “handsome, muscled, and driven, he’s a prime example of masculinity”

    Well, *that* doesn’t help much.

    It’s probably difficult to come up with a definition that everyone, even every man here, would fully agree with though.

    Like

  27. Tarnished says:

    I would think that before a rate is set a battery of questions must be answered.

    Regarding this chart, both it and the article refer to the data collection as a Poll, not a Study. So it really does seem to have just been “mark where you’re at on this scale”. If they’d asked questions, we’d have clearer answers and more data…so I wish they had.

    Liked by 1 person

  28. SFC Ton says:

    I reckon older men feel more masculine because they can remember way back when typical boys got in fist fights, shot guns, killed stuff,boxed in gym class, drove V8’s at near on triple digit speeds down the interstate with a cigarette in their mouth, a beer in their hand and no fucking seat belt

    in other words they did some man shit

    Liked by 3 people

  29. Liz says:

    “Drastic alterations to traditional gender roles even as recent as 60 years ago weren’t as common place as they are in 2016. A lot has changed in such a relatively short span of time.”

    And the elephant in the room: No fathers or male role models in the lives of young men.

    I don’t think age has anything to do with it. If anything, it’s the opposite. I’m sure if you ask the average 65 year old to think of a time when he felt most manly, most wouldn’t say, “oh….just last week”.

    Liked by 2 people

  30. Tarnished says:

    The other two charts:

    Liked by 4 people

  31. Liz says:

    That chart looks like something out of horror fiction, Tarn. Holy fuck. 42 percent of men aged 18 to 24 have a negative impression of masculinity?

    Liked by 3 people

  32. SFC Ton says:

    also have to wonder how much the gender is fuild and other dumb shit like that effects the how masculine those 18 years old feel

    Liked by 3 people

  33. Liz says:

    “in other words they did some man shit”

    All of which are labeled “toxic” today.
    It’s funny things have become so PC the folks who run the nation actually believe there are nice ways to kill people (or get killed by others). Yeah! Bomb that!
    But don’t sing any songs about death…that would be unkind.
    Don’t keep anything that anyone might think offensive in any way in your personal locker.

    I had a “discussion” with a person a while back who believed this shit.
    In a forum with other people who believed this shit.
    They thought if the guys are on the taxpayer dime their behavior should be monitored at all times. After wasting my time explaining about exigent conditions and their effect on people (even in the ER and surgery room you will hear much different, more gallows style humor than the maternity ward, for a reason…and these are nowhere near combat conditions).
    I finally responded with this:

    “You know what, you got me. We should monitor what these people sing, listen to, and watch in their leisure time and make sure it isn’t socially unredeeming. It’s the taxpayers money afterall. THat is actually what is happening now. Not even a princess Leia action figure in a personal locker! But, we have to be consistent. Any person working on the taxpayer’s dime also should have his or her free time monitored…no more rap music, that’s for sure.

    Start with Congress. I’m sure there’s an awful lot of interesting stuff in their desks, and the lockers of their interns.”

    And when the dipshit(s) brought up how the earlier batches of soldiers were more heroic and engaged in socially redeeming activities between the fights (yes, they are that ignorant and fact-tarded). I responded with this:

    “Here is a little (very very widely know, so not really a…) secret:
    It wasn’t just songs. In the bad old days (prior to nice things like rules of engagement based on the Geneva Conventions and such) people during wars did a lot of bad things. I don’t really have to post proof of that, do I? They didn’t just sing songs about doing bad things. I’d say songs (whatever that snappy little jingle might be) are actually a pretty healthy way to deal with combat stress in the broad scheme of things.

    Believing that the warriors of old were somehow more heroic and didn’t use vulgar songs or socially unedifying commentary as compared to now is a bit the little kid who found out his dad is a secret drinker and runs around saying his real father is a prince. But go right ahead.
    Taxpayers who elect the very officials who send our soldiers out to combat to get killed/shot at/maimed should be happy when those soldiers perform their very stressful and dangerous task as required and worry less about what they sing about and talk about in their free time.
    Bye now, Emma.”

    Yes. I am Liz and I was once stupid enough to waste my time arguing with these people.

    Liked by 4 people

  34. Yoda says:

    Yes. I am Liz

    I am Yoda.

    Where Groot he be?

    Liked by 2 people

  35. Liz says:

    Baby groot. Cutest of all he is:

    Good movie, that was. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  36. BuenaVista says:

    Basically, a young man has to drop out of society (or, same thing, join certain elements of the military) if he wishes to explore or practice “masculinity”. Aside from the feminists and now, gender police, which control every substantial insitution and corporation, he’s also been raised to never get a boo-boo or break a rule.

    As Ton noted, behavior that was routine for us at age 12 is now engineered out of childhood. Part of being a man, in a traditional sense, is exploring one’s limits, which means doing dangerous things. Or at least uncomfortable things. Stealing kerosene and starting a bonfire for kicks. Going camping when it is snowing and 20 below zero. Riding a bicycle 20 miles into the country with a sleeping bag and a hatchet and a can of Dinty Moore. Delivering newspapers, even. Walking to school 3/4 of a mile, alone, at age 5, and that includes when it is below zero. Riding a pony at age 5. Being given an axe at age 11 and told to split the winter’s fireplace supply. Being advised, in a Little League baseball game, to hit the next batter because he’s a mouthy little fuck (opposing coach felt the same way, and laughed). This is before turning 13.

    At 16, working 40 hours a week, going to the bars at midnight after work with the college kids, driving 1050 miles straight through to ski (more bars), walking the continental divide from Wyoming to New Mexico (above treeline most of the way with a pack that weighed 2/3 of my body weight, buying and riding a motocross bike the week I turned 16 (no helmet), walking home five miles with my girlfriend after a grope session when the car wouldn’t start when it was midnight and below zero (she remarked 20 years later that her earlobes were permanently damaged) because a) no cellphones; b) you didn’t call parents for a ride home at midnight.

    This was normal course behavior then and I was not a hood. My father was a newspaper editor, my mother a deranged poet, and my friends were the sons of college profs. We also took college courses in high school, studied music and went to Interlochen and attended the symphony, everyone studied a foreign language, interacted with the writers workshop luminaries in our parents’ cocktail parties,

    In response to the desiccated, safe-childhood mania under the thumb of man-hating “educational professionals” preaching “gender is a social construction” bullshit, a boy gets to age 21 or 22 and liberated, he’s basically incompetent at being a man, and has received only negative reinforcement at the very concept of being a man.

    I have an older son who responded to his liberation by moving to the mountains where he practices an insanely dangerous lifestyle (mountaineering and extreme skiing). I do think it’s an overreaction to his UMC lifestyle, and a result of being under lock and key for the first two decades of his life. He lost his live-in father at 8 and his mother and older sister are dominant personalities. I did what I could — he was flying with me before he was out of diapers, I took him and his sister to places like Chicago and turned them loose alone for an entire day once, took them back to Iowa and bought them bikes and said, “Come back in time for supper,” took him mountain biking and climbing in Colorado. But I was ill prepared for the absolute fear I saw in his and his sisters eyes when I did these things.

    One of my favorite memories was going to Florida in a little aerobatic tailwheel airplane with him when he was five, where we camped for a week at a big fly-in. On the way home, at the first fuel stop (Jeckel Island, GA), my battery was depleted and wouldn’t restart the plane. So I had to hand-prop it and, whoops, fell in doing so and managed to break my left forearm. We had to get home though so off we flew. I pretty much lost the use of my left hand by Greensboro, but could still work the throttle (left hand) and land and fuel. Now it was night. We had one more leg, to Winchester, VA. We arrived at Winchester and I couldn’t use my left hand at all. I was able to explain the situation to my little boy, and I explained that we were going to fly a normal approach but on my command, he would be the one to pull the power. He did so without a problem, we landed in a full stall three-point, drove home, went to bed in the

    Liked by 5 people

  37. BuenaVista says:

    quiet house. I went into shock around 2 a.m. and went to the hospital. Today, of course, such an adventure with one’s son might get one thrown in jail.

    Net: where do boys go for adventure, risk, self-trials, and competition today?

    Liked by 3 people

  38. Liz says:

    “One of my favorite memories was going to Florida in a little aerobatic tailwheel airplane with him when he was five, where we camped for a week at a big fly-in.”

    I’m sure that’s one of his favorite memories too, BV. 🙂

    The environment today is very mommy-approved. This is no coincidence. As a mom I’m happy things are safer for my kids. As a rational thinking person I understand this is NOT good for making men men. Our government isn’t a daddy, it’s a mommy.

    Liked by 1 person

  39. BuenaVista says:

    I hope so, Liz, but you just don’t know. One of the things I learned in the past two years is that I was projecting my relationship with my father, onto my children. I learned to my extreme disappointment that in fact they don’t feel anything like the bond I had with my dad. Such is the wages of divorce for the non-custodial father.

    Son #1, with zero coaching or even conversation on the subject with me, did choose a lifestyle of books and writing and physical challenge for himself, once he got free of college. So there’s that. Perhaps we will re-converge in the future.

    In the meantime I live in dread that he will be crippled or killed. I do think, apropos the OP, that young men who do try to break out of the “masculinity is toxic” straightjacket, take crazy risks — irrational risks. Those of us who had a free-range boyhood got smashed in the face enough by weather, tough guys, the police or our own stupidity probably have a very different risk profile.

    For example, he and his buddies will ski 10 miles into the backcountry and then climb peaks — so they can jump off cliffs and do backflips and shit before bombing down a 70 degree slope prone to avalanche. Well, fuck. I walked three summers ago with him into one of his favorite secret skiing spots and looked up at a 50′ face.

    “You realize that if you get hurt out here it’s very unlikely mountain rescue gets you out in time.”

    “Yup.”

    He is tough, though. Rode a bicycle from Tahoe to Seattle to Maine two years ago, with a bivy bag, a cookset, and probably set a record for consuming summer sausage. When I met up with him in North Dakota after the first 3000 miles he stunk so bad I made him leave his clothes on the front porch of the cabin we rented and actually washed them first in a self-serve car wash, before going to the laundromat.

    So he’s making up for lost freedoms, or reacting to his lost childhood with some self-destructive risk-taking, or something. I’ll be pleased when he gets to age 30 in one piece, if he does.

    Liked by 2 people

  40. Wow, that is eye opening. Spawny do you know any guys that age? Is it truly that widespread?

    In general today’s hover parenting style is not good for raising independant free thinking adults. Trouble is even if you wanted to raise kids the way we were, you’d likely get reported for abuse or neglect. Not good.

    Liked by 3 people

  41. BuenaVista says:

    Another rite of passage for a young man marinated in SJW lies: pick successive fights while drunk, gets shit kicked out of him, claim a hate crime:

    http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/zorn/ct-fake-racial-attack-lessons-perspec-0522-20160520-column.html

    Of course, faculty and student activists were thrilled to have an opportunity to go Peak Outrage at the latest example of toxic white male masculinity.

    While this sordid episode will follow him around for the rest of his life, via Google, it would have been better to file charges against him, the better to prevent his spinning it in five years as another case of a gentle black young man being railroaded into withdrawing his claims by a racist Iowa police force.

    Liked by 2 people

  42. BuenaVista says:

    I do think there is an unwitting reaction to efforts to feminize everything. The new Ghostbusters, with its four SJW females replacing the men because they’re so awesome and body positive and funny (not), has the worst negative reviews of a movie trailer in Youtube history.

    So young men may not know what masculinity is, but they still know that gender is not a social construct, and that unfunny fat girls impersonating male icons are just … unfunny fat girls.

    Liked by 4 people

  43. I am a non-violent person but even so, I would like to punch that guy!

    Liked by 1 person

  44. BuenaVista says:

    2016: Gender is a spectrum2023: Gender is a roundabout2050: Gender is a strawberry poptart 2100: humans are extinct cuz stupid— Blaire White (@MsBlaireWhite) May 23, 2016

    //platform.twitter.com/widgets.js

    Liked by 4 people

  45. Yoda says:

    Volunteer firefighters banded together to help a distraught mother duck after her ducklings fell down a drain.

    Footage captures the adorable moment the ducklings are winched from the drain in front of their mother.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3603875/Lucky-ducks-heartwarming-moment-ducklings-fell-storm-drain-rescued-firefighters-concerned-mother-looks-on.html

    Three members of the Titirangi Volunteer Fire Brigade, in New Zealand, formed a production queue to pull the ducklings out while one filmed the heroic rescue

    Liked by 2 people

  46. Yoda says:

    Always postal votes an issue they are.
    Wonder why this is…

    Liked by 2 people

  47. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    A few people have brought up the point that kids rarely have any unsupervised time. That has to make a big contribution. My neighbor told me something today that floored me. One quarter of the local kids are in special ed. . That is more than a little high. Do you think the two could be linked?

    Liked by 3 people

  48. Yoda says:

    gender is not a social construct

    Wonder how many SJWs believe that a construct it is.
    Deep down, know different they do?

    Like

  49. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    I liked the duck story. That is an example of masculinity.
    “Postal votes?” Voter fraud has always been a problem. Difficult to commit the resources to prosecute it is.

    Like

  50. Yoda says:

    Special Ed not what it was it is.
    Now the definition more encompassing it is.

    Liked by 2 people

  51. Yoda says:

    Totally the same the genders are,

    The Harvard faculty of arts and science just last week passed a motion expressing a lack of confidence in the leadership of President Lawrence Summers. Such censure is unprecedented in Harvard’s near 400-year-history. Summers unwittingly stepped on the third rail of university politics when he speculated that innate differences between the sexes might be one reason there are fewer women than men at the highest echelons of math and science.

    To understand the hornets’ nest Summers has stirred up, one needs to have a close look at the main hornets. To an outsider, the controversy must look very strange. Nothing Summers said was a threat to the advancement of a single competent woman in any of the sciences. The statistical fact that more men tend to score in the top-five percent of math-aptitude tests makes no predictions whatsoever about the abilities of any particular man or woman. Far from being outrageous or sexist, Summers’s comments were completely respectable and altogether mainstream.

    But not in the academy. As one outraged Harvard feminist professor of ethics, Mahzarin Banaji, told the Harvard Crimson, “In this day and age to believe that men and women differ in their basic competence for math and science is as insidious as believing that some people are better suited to be slaves than masters.” The January 14 conference where Summers spoke was organized by the National Bureau of Economic Research. While many members of the audience found his remarks measured and thought-provoking, a few were deeply offended that he entertained the idea that natural differences between men and women played a role in career paths. The press has widely reported on the overreaction Nancy Hopkins, a Massachusetts Institute of Technology biologist and feminist activist who says she almost became physically ill.

    Perhaps had the vapors she did

    http://www.nationalreview.com/article/213961/who-stole-harvard-christina-hoff-sommers

    Liked by 2 people

  52. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    Has Special Ed become another feminist make work project? It is tought to find employemnt for all these feminists.
    Larry Summers did not deserve what he got from Harvard feminists. They have done damage to the institution that they claim to serve. This is like an old adage about not defecating where you eat.

    Like

  53. Spawny Get says:

    My guess is that a school gets more cash for a special ed kid than a normal one. Schools have an incentive to classify more kids as special.

    Liked by 1 person

  54. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Spawny Get,
    It is one thing to generate another bureaucracy. It is quite another to label one quarter of all the kids as useless. A lot of damage is being done here.

    Liked by 1 person

  55. Spawny Get says:

    I remember the joy in The Sopranos when the son, Fester Soprano (iirc), was diagnosed with ADHD and put on drugs and given advantages in exams.

    Yep, here he is, Fester Soprano

    And with a wig on

    Oops! This is Tony Addams Jr from the Addams Family. My bad.

    Liked by 3 people

  56. BuenaVista says:

    The Marlboro Man Didn’t Want To Talk about Men in the Ladies Room.

    On the social history of American tobacco, and the postmodern contempt for sex, gender and above all, masculinity:

    “The Marlboro cigarette-smoking cowboy was depicted as a tough workman with the pioneer spirit of the Wild West and seductive charm. The enormous success of the campaign set a lasting example for tobacco advertising in the U.S., and in effect, it made the product synonymous with an aspirational brand of American masculinity – the kind that the postmodern left despises.

    The white American patriarch has been traditionally understood as an independent man who provides for his family and contributes in meaningful ways to his community without any desire for intervention from the state. Consequently, such a figure frustrates the leftist project to create a population of isolated, confused, fragile, and dependent subjects who would willingly submit to an all-powerful government. Because he refuses to embrace the “psychopathic brilliance” (as Norman Mailer put it) of moral nihilism, gender relativism, sexual perversion and promiscuity, and general irresponsibility encouraged by the left, the Great White Male and his insignia – here, the electronic twin of the cigarette – are vilified at every turn in mainstream culture.

    “Therefore, don’t be fooled when the left bemoans the ills that could ensue should the e-cigarettes entice teenagers and pregnant women to take up tobacco smoking. These are crocodile tears. Indeed, the left’s contention on the basis of alleged heath concerns is entirely inconsistent with its support of marijuana legalization and serving alcohol to pregnant women in public places. Moreover, Democrats like California senator Barbara Boxer who denounce the e-cigarette as a delivery system for nicotine paradoxically also support the provision of clean hypodermic needles to heroin and other intravenous drug abusers as a form of harm reduction.

    “Plainly, leftists are not concerned with scientific studies on the benefits of e-cigarettes. Rather, they are obsessed with undermining the historic symbolism and narratives surrounding traditional American masculinity. This is why the surging popularity of e-cigarettes makes them crazy.”

    http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2016/05/surgeon_generals_warning_ecigarettes_make_leftists_crazy.html

    Basically, feminism’s call in the 1990’s to make everything that is personal, political has succeeded. This is what boys now get from age 0. The problem for everybody is that they have run out of targets: this crap about transgender dysphoria affecting a protected class is just facially stupid: we’re arguing in public about fucked-up grotesque human beings who need mental health interventions, totaling maybe 0.03% of society, requiring Federal protection.

    The only place they have to go, next, to create a new class of victims is to protect man-boy, woman-girl, woman-boy, etc. pederasts. You wait.

    Liked by 4 people

  57. Spawny Get says:

    Rumour is that e-cigs are the most succesful route out of smoking. So big-pharma dislikes them. No gum, no patches…neither of which have much of a track record of success.

    They’re also far less inconveniencing for non-smokers. I don’t see any real reasons for hating them (and I have never smoked anything, ever).

    Maybe some people take them up when they’d never have taken up cigarettes? Going to need to see some proof on that. If it exists at all, I don’t believe it’ll be a large effect. So on balance, I think that they’re a great step forward for everyone.

    Liked by 1 person

  58. SFC Ton says:

    Special ed status gets the kid and the kids mommy more money for the govt. Huge incentive

    Liked by 2 people

  59. BuenaVista says:

    One of the smarter trends in substance abuse treatment these days is “harm reduction.” That is, to mitigate harm, rather than approach everything as a problem under prohibition.

    I do cigars, rarely cigs (but when I do, I prefer Lucky regulars!), but the research all suggests that vaping reduces cigarette addiction, at no inconvenience (smell, smoke) to others. Where I live one is allowed to vape in taverns and restaurants, but the Dems and other busybodies are very concerned about this and want to proscribe the activity.

    Liked by 3 people

  60. Spawny Get says:

    This is what happens when you elect a bell-end
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/23/whoever-loves-austria-sht-president-elect-beat-nationalist-hofer-used-anti-patriotic-slogans/

    They called it an “election gimmick” and a “campaign gag”, but the new president-elect of Austria once presided over his party’s campaign that declared: “Anyone who loves Austria must be shit”.
    Alexander Van der Bellen – who appears to have defeated the Freedom Party’s Norbert Hofer by around just 30,000 of nearly five million votes – has a track record of opposing the nation state as a concept, and his own as a reality.

    In 2007, while he was leader of the Austrian Greens, the party published a picture of a dog with the Austrian flag in its mouth. The poster read: “Take your flag for your gag”, followed by the declaration that anyone who loves the country “must be sh*t”.

    Liked by 2 people

  61. Liz says:

    “Maybe some people take them up when they’d never have taken up cigarettes? Going to need to see some proof on that.”

    Here they are much the rage in the high schools, and I’m as sure as can be these students didn’t take up real tobacco (much like I’m sure they’ve always worn seatbelts). But just about all of them smoke weed. You can put THC in them.

    Liked by 2 people

  62. Liz says:

    I’m going to start using that term, “bell-end”. I like it. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  63. Spawny Get says:

    Liz,

    Big Ben

    Yeah, I went there

    Liked by 2 people

  64. Liz says:

    OT side note:
    What is happening in Rollo’s comment section right now is quite interesting. The all-PUA-all-the-time people (who I think use Rollo’s place as a free advertisement service) verses…well, Rollo and anyone else who is tired of replacing their scroll wheels.

    Like

  65. Spawny Get says:

    bell-end isn’t exactly hardcore, despite the thing thing

    Like

  66. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    If you use an expression that people aren’t familiar with, won’t you have to explain its meaning?
    I;ll check out Rollo’s.

    Liked by 1 person

  67. BuenaVista says:

    Generally speaking, Rollo’s comment threads give a guy a headache. Way too much repetition and newbie doctrinaire table pounding.

    Like

  68. copperfox3c says:

    Sadly, none of this is surprising. Men of the previous generation (i.e. Baby Boomers) should have firmly said “No”, when instead they simply caved. This is what they wrought.

    Also, new post: http://www.illiberal-liberal.com/2016/05/the-politics-of-fragility/

    Liked by 2 people

  69. Liz says:

    The argument goes back several days to get the full context Fuzzie. Might take a great deal of your time (if so, it’s not really THAT interesting).

    “If you use an expression that people aren’t familiar with, won’t you have to explain its meaning?”

    Them not knowing is part of the fun, Fuzzie.
    😉

    Liked by 1 person

  70. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    Rollo is pretty deep. I shouldn’t try to read his posts more than one at a time. It seems as if his commenters are trying to emulate his depth, and verbosity. Could it be a whole lot of “Look at me!” going on? Not everyone can be profound.

    Liked by 1 person

  71. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    So they look it up later and the steam shoots out their ears?
    I am not going to go through a bunch of Rollo’s threads. I like you but, I’m sorry.
    You have given me a desire to take in the profound. I’ll look for Shelby Foote on youtube.

    Liked by 1 person

  72. Yoda says:

    The iconic picture above has been widely shared on social media over the last few days and reported on by BBC Trending and a host of other news outlets around the world. Many who saw it were charmed by Ms Belkhiri’s stunt which seemed to use humour to defuse a potentially awkward confrontation outside a Muslim lifestyle exhibition in Belgium. Photos of the event showed that even some of the placard-carrying demonstrators from the far right Vlaams Belang group seemed to find it funny.
    “This wasn’t a protest at all, this was just to share joy and peace,” Ms Belkhiri told Trending in an email at the time explaining her actions. The 22-year-old added that she wanted “to show that things can be different. And that we can live together, not next to each other but with each other”.

    However, since then a series of deeply disturbing anti-Semitic statements made by Ms Belkhiri on social media have come to light.

    In one tweet dating from November 2012, she wrote: “Hitler didn’t kill all the Jews, he left some. So we know why he was killing them.

    And in another Facebook post from March 2014, she used an expletive to describe Jews before adding: “I hate them so much.”

    http://www.bbc.com/news/blogs-trending-36353650

    Liked by 1 person

  73. Yoda says:

    Believe this I could,

    Alarming figures uncovered in a Daily Star Sunday investigation reveal offences by females have rocketed in five years.
    Greater Manchester Police has seen a 270% rise.

    The figures from the Metropolitan Police have also more than doubled.

    The Met revealed that 235 sexual offences were committed by females in 2011 to 2012, soaring to 473 by 2015 to 2016.

    Greater Manchester Police saw the number of crimes rise from 45 to 174 over the same period

    The crimes mentioned were mostly women assaulting other women. When women sexually assault or abuse men and boys, no one cares.

    https://pjmedia.com/drhelen/2016/05/22/uk-paper-sex-crimes-by-women-on-the-rise/

    Liked by 3 people

  74. Spawny Get says:

    #ProjectFear overdoing it? Scrappy McDooDoo says so

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/nicola-sturgeon-warns-overblown-treasury-brexit-report-could-bac/

    Nicola Sturgeon has undermined the Prime Minister’s attempts to keep Britain in Europe by delivering an extraordinary attack on an “overblown” new Treasury report that warned Brexit could create a deep recession and mass job losses.

    The First Minister launched a ferocious assault on the document, which was unveiled only hours earlier by David Cameron and George Osborne, saying the public are too “savvy” to believe its more extreme claims and warning that insulting people’s intelligence could backfire.

    Although she insisted she was on the same side as Mr Cameron in wanting a Remain vote, Ms Sturgeon said he should spend the final month before polling day delivering an upbeat message about the EU rather than relying on a “miserable, scaremongering, fear-based campaign.”

    Her intervention was warmly welcomed by the Scottish wing of the Vote Leave campaign, which said the SNP leader was correct that “the Treasury claims are overblown and are an attempt to scare the voters.”

    Liked by 1 person

  75. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    I saw that. Is it that more offenses are being committed or, more reports are being made? If it is the first, The topic we are discussing has more relevance.

    You would be the one to ask on this. Have the Nervous Nellies tried to ban Star Wars lightsabres as violent? After all, kids don’t get to play dodgeball anymore.

    Liked by 1 person

  76. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    When any grade school child can see that Project Fear’s claims are overblown, it will backfire. Telling people that they are stupid is not endearing.

    Liked by 1 person

  77. Yoda says:

    The Atlantic noticed it did

    The Ghostbusters trailer is currently the most “disliked” movie preview on YouTube; some 800,000 fans have clicked the thumbs-down button, indicating an organized campaign against the film (for comparison, the Captain America: Civil War trailer has only 12,000 dislikes). Its comments thread is filled with fans defending their down-votes as being “on merit alone,” as if a major Hollywood studio film has never had shaky advertising before. Rolfe’s justification for skipping the movie focuses mostly on the arrogance of remaking a classic. “This isn’t just any franchise, this is Ghostbusters,” he intones, invoking the memory of the original film’s deceased star Harold Ramis

    http://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2016/05/the-sexist-outcry-against-the-ghostbusters-remake-gets-louder/483270/

    Liked by 2 people

  78. Liz says:

    Next remake: Steel Magnolias, all male cast.

    Liked by 3 people

  79. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    It is impossible to predict the tipping point of change, and this backlash against the Ghostbusters video may not be it,but, there has to be a response to feminism.
    Once again, who could have seen this coming in this form? Somebody with a crystal ball?

    Liked by 1 person

  80. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    Bear is on his back, rolling around on the floor, completely helpless. What ever you do, don’t name a cast!

    Liked by 2 people

  81. Yoda says:

    Perhaps “Fried Green Tomatoes” remake with fellas one should create

    Liked by 2 people

  82. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    As Mr. Bill would say, “Oooooooohhhhhhh, Noooooooooooooooooo!!!”

    Like

  83. Liz says:

    Sex in the City!

    Liked by 2 people

  84. Yoda says:

    Pajama Boy star in one of the remakes he should

    Liked by 2 people

  85. Yoda says:

    Jar-Jar also star he could

    Liked by 1 person

  86. Yoda says:

    A remake of “Misery” with TrigglyPuff as the star worth watching it would be

    Liked by 2 people

  87. Yoda says:

    Jar-Jar the victim in “Misery” remake a good idea it is

    Liked by 1 person

  88. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Don’t forget Woody Allen!

    I just got through watching a documentary on the An Francisco earthquake. In 1906, they recovered pretty quick. The next one is well past due and there is nows way that the city will recover at that pace set then. Most of it belongs to bashing men for decades.

    Like

  89. Yoda says:

    Han Solo a swashbuckling man he was.
    His son Darth Emo much less he would be.
    A bad force afflicting the galaxy it is

    Liked by 1 person

  90. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    You really have it in for Jar Jar, don’t you? I don’;t like bear hunters but, I wouldn’t wish them that. Better they hunt Trigglypuff.

    Liked by 1 person

  91. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Han Solo a scoundrel he was.
    Leia like.

    Like

  92. Yoda says:

    Inspired she was,

    The Montgomery County Police Department said Hopesy Henriquez, 18, of Clarksburg, was still on the scene about 3:30 a.m. May 10 when police and firefighters responded to a report of a car on fire in Germantown.

    The 24-year-old owner of the $29,000 car said he had ended his relationship with Henriquez earlier in the night and left her home when she became physical.

    Henriquez was taken to the fifth district police station, where she told officers she purchased lighter fluid and a lighter from a 7-Eleven store before catching an Uber ride to the victim’s house and burning the car.

    “I put it all over. Front, side, back… I just wanted to do something crazy, a lot of things have been happening to me,” Henriquez allegedly told officers.

    Henriquez allegedly said her inspiration to commit arson came from an unusual source: “I watched this music video and that’s when I thought about lighting his car on fire… I hope he never forgets it.”

    http://www.upi.com/Odd_News/2016/05/20/Woman-says-music-video-inspired-her-to-torch-cheating-exs-new-car/4871463755357/

    Liked by 2 people

  93. Tarnished says:

    Crazy as fuck that bitch is. Stuck his member in her he should not have.

    Liked by 4 people

  94. Tarnished says:

    I liked the duck story. That is an example of masculinity.

    Been pondering this comment since morning I have. Curious I am.

    Actions considered masculine or feminine depending on sex of action-taker, they are? Or actions make their takers temporarily masculine or feminine they do?

    Female duck rescuers masculine they are? Male daycare workers in danger of becoming feminine they may be?

    Liked by 1 person

  95. Sumo says:

    Toy weapons boys must have not

    I wholeheartedly concur. Live weapons only.

     photo IMG_0565.jpg

    Liked by 4 people

  96. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    I hadn’t written that to get you mad. It’s just that I don’t see women rescuing ducks. Note the story that Yoda linked a couple of days ago. The goose approached a male cop taking his lunch yo soliciy the rescue of her gosling.

    Liked by 2 people

  97. Yoda says:

    “Extraordinary: 72% of working-class voters in Austria voted for Hofer, the far-right candidate, and only 5% of them voted for Van der Bellen, the green. This is the real story of the Austrian election: the left in Europe, and the European Union, now have no connection whatsoever with working-class people. The left is celebrating Hofer’s defeat, seemingly unaware that the more profound defeat is theirs. The rupture between the left and the working class in Europe is now complete.”

    As in the United States, the Left is the party of the apparatchiks, not the workers.

    http://pjmedia.com/instapundit/234492/

    Liked by 3 people

  98. Yoda says:

    Yoda virus spreading it is
    An outbreak imminent it would be

    Liked by 2 people

  99. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It is a shame that we may never know how the court ends up dealing with crazy ex-gf arsonist. She wouldn’t have done it if she knew the courts would come down on het as they would if her boyfriend had done as much to her.

    Tarn mirrors Tara Palmatier’s advice of not “sticking your dick in crazy”. There is only one problem crazy is good at concealing her true personality.

    This story made me wonder if insurance companies will get tired of paying claims on the misdeed’s of crazy ex-gfs only to see them get treated lightly by the courts.

    Liked by 4 people

  100. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    Co-ed bear rescue. Smart humans.

    Forgive?

    Liked by 1 person

  101. Tarnished says:

    Mad I was not.
    Never once angry with ursine have I been. Too honest and pure like cinnamon rolls they are.

    Truly curious I was (and am). Think of actions in such ways I do not…wondering how others see such things I was. But then again, think in weird ways my forte it is. Natural gift I have. 😉

    Apologies I offer for miscommunications, I do.

    Liked by 1 person

  102. Farm Boy says:

    Yoda virus strong it is.
    Even caught it I did

    Liked by 3 people

  103. Tarnished says:

    Think of actions on scales of Good ➡ Neutral ➡ Bad, or Well Thought Out ➡ Utterly Stupid, I do.

    Never really thought to equate with masculinity or femininity, I have. Interested in hearing more on this viewpoint…hmm?

    Liked by 2 people

  104. Tarnished says:

    Bear videos I am lacking, but baby guinea pigs “popcorning” around the room silly and fun to watch it is.

    Liked by 2 people

  105. horseman says:

    18-24 is when the most testosterone is pumping and guys are first on their own away from the folks to do truly stupid stuff. I had most of my bone breaks and scars before I was married at 24. And not to impress giurls just guys doing stupid shit like freehand rock climbing, bar scuffles, dirt biking.

    If these guys don’t feel manly in their prime god help em in their thirties.

    Maybe this will accelerate the collapse

    1. I dont feel manly so why man up (mgtow)
    2. I’m not manly enough to get a girl long term (mgtow)
    3. None of these boys are real men so I wont sleep with them (mgtow fodder)
    4. Where are the good men for a strong successful woman (all gone mgtow)
    5. Im frustrated at no men so I will feminize and berate all men in my power (creating 1.)

    a self sustaining cycle. Result…fewer LTRs of any kind (beyond marriage cause its dead) let alone one long enough to sustain child rearing and no male incentive to produce. Only manly men feel driven to achieve.

    No fertility
    1 in 4 over 65
    climate change effecting large centres (miami under two feet of water)
    brilliant engineering and science needed for all these but no one in them
    critical building skills literally unmanned to execute few brilliant ideas
    2020-2025 gonna be spectacular to watch.

    Liked by 2 people

  106. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Bear like!
    Party they are having.
    All else needed would be beverage and veggie treats to complete.
    Popcorn, maybe?
    Guinea pigs fun to watch they are.

    Like

  107. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Captain Capitalism mad at his governor he is. Brief and worth following.
    http://captaincapitalism.blogspot.com/2016/05/fuck-you-minnesota-and-fuck-you-mark.html

    Liked by 1 person

  108. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Horseman,
    It would be a disaster of society ig all those kids resolved to live out their lives in caves.
    However, who can blame them?

    Like

  109. @ fuzzie I have rescued baby ducks, baby blue jays, baby chickens, and other miscellaneous baby animals. It’s always spontaneous, one should always rise to such an occasion, masculine or no. 🙂

    Liked by 3 people

  110. My new garden project is nearing completion just in time to debut for high season! Yay! But not much time for posting at my place as a result… Sorry! Soon….like Sept. only kidding… I hope! Seriously from me it will be non stop from this weekend until Sept.

    Liked by 2 people

  111. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Bloom,
    You saved baby animals too? Then, the impulse to compassion is not restricted by sex.
    I hope that you have a very successful year but, you are missed.

    Liked by 1 person

  112. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It wasn’t me.

    Liked by 1 person

  113. Spawny Get says:

    The guy responsible for ensuring that CallMeDave was a policy marshmallow (relax, he was already) sticks a hoof up Dave’s arse.
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/23/britain-must-leave-eu-says-strategy-guru-made-david-cameron/

    The EU is “arrogant and unaccountable”; EU membership makes Britain “literally ungovernable”; the EU is “anti-market” and “stifles competition with its statism, corporatism and bureaucracy”; it’s “perfectly obvious to everyone” that the EU is incapable of reform; Britain will be much better off out of the EU.
    Even from a known Brexiteer such as Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson or Michael Gove, these words would be pretty strong stuff. But coming from Steve Hilton, they are absolute dynamite: a devastating blow to the Remain campaign and – given that it was starting to look both unassailable and rather cocky – a perfectly timed one too.

    It matters because Hilton, perhaps more than anyone, can lay claim to having “made” David Cameron, transforming him from an obscure backbench MP into Prime Minister material. Hilton has advised the Prime Minister on and off throughout his period in office and is still one of Dave’s closest friends. Well at least he was till the publication of this blistering broadside in the Daily Mail.

    “transforming him from an obscure backbench MP into Prime Minister material”
    Shirley shome mishtake? He is PM, but he’s not made of PM material. The Tories made him leader because he was another Tony Bliar, just as the public (ten years too late) worked out that Bliar was a principle free, morality free scum bag…allegedly

    Liked by 1 person

  114. Spawny Get says:

    The Chilcot Inquiry’s (investigating the scumbags responsible (in the UK) for the Iraq warcatastrophuck) publication has been further delayed till after the referendum.

    The inquiry into the war was launched in 2009 by Gordon Brown with former Whitehall mandarin Sir John Chilcot as its head.

    But seven years later the report appears to be no nearer to being published.

    The Daily Express has now learnt that MPs have been briefed that the latest delay is the EU referendum and the inquiry is to wait until after 23 June to publish its report.

    Why the delay? I reckon it’s because it demolishes the credibility of the establishment and also figures in the Remaniac camp. We’re all supposed to listen and believe the words of wisdom being spouted by such people. Now is not the time to reveal what a set of incompetent and deceptive scumbags that they are.

    I’m not so sure that it would make much of a difference. We in the UK share your tragic tendancy to elect known incompetent and deceptive scumbags.

    Liked by 3 people

  115. Spawny Get says:

    Listening while I work, haven’t finished it yet

    Like

  116. Tarnished says:

    the impulse to compassion is not restricted by sex.

    No, it’s not. However, I do recall a Sandman video in which he talks about his visit to the hospital for his heart issues, and the (female) nurses there did not treat him with compassion. Instead, he says that the overwhelming pity was nearly palatable, and he was sure (and unfortunately likely to be right) that they saw him as less of a man because he was necessarily laid up/pretty damn ill.

    That being sick is seen as an unmasculine state, especially by workers in the medical field, is a cause for concern and righteous indignation. Having compassion and empathy toward those in need isn’t sex-exclusive, but I do wonder if pity is something BP women have instead?

    Liked by 1 person

  117. Liz says:

    Hospitals suck for everyone. Only about one in five nurses (I’m being charitable) are even boarderline competent.

    Liked by 1 person

  118. Liz says:

    Speaking of awful medical treatment, I’ve heard that Puerto Rico is really hurting now. One doctor a day leaving, so deep in debt they couldn’t pay the electric bills and even the hospitals lost their power. That sucks.
    But then, everything I know about the situation I learned second hand from one of my sons, who learned it from watching John Oliver.

    Liked by 1 person

  119. Liz says:

    I think the duck rescue was manly. 🙂
    I’ve told the Mike duck story when he bolted out of the car and caught that cat and made her give up the duck. That was REALLY impressive.
    I guess a girl could’ve done it, but even I was never THAT fast, and I was faster than most any other guy I’d ever met back then.
    (seriously, I’ve never seen a person sprint that fast)
    I’d rescue those ducks too if I could. I’ve rescued injured birds (or tried, some expired), dogs, and a cat once.
    Just rambling…..carry on. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  120. Liz says:

    Rambling more about hospitals:
    Anyone who has ever had a hospital experience (outside of the maternity ward, those are hit or miss…sometimes the experience is good) knows hospitals are bad. You’re going to feel vulnerable, and the staff typically is overworked (though the ICU and peds units usually are better because the nurse to patient ratio is better). Those nurses suck in general too. Anyone who is a free thinking, independent person is going to hate this situation.

    Liked by 2 people

  121. Liz says:

    One regular contributor sums it up at Rollo’s (for those interested…I’m probably alone here):

    “I see the Fonze approaching the comment section on water skis.
    Enough of this dumb shit already.”

    Enough of this dumb shit already. That deserved a mic drop.

    Liked by 1 person

  122. Spawny Get says:

    I’d never actually seen the shark jumping scene till I seen it on that thread. Dear oh dear

    Liked by 2 people

  123. Liz says:

    Ton added a good post.
    But Ton has life experience.
    I’ll just post this here to vent (because I’m never going to post at Rollo’s again…this is my last post on the subject, but I think it does tangentially related to the topic):

    I look for motivations when I watch what seems to be inexplicable behavior.
    In this case, the PUA poster(s) seem to have a very very vested interest in proving that one can be a fat, ugly, impoverished, jobless, weak fuck and still pull as much ass as a person who is a handsome, athletic, rich person with a powerful position in life.

    When confronted with any arguments to the contrary they maintain either, “Them’s lies!” or something to the effect of “your argument causes men to commit suicide!” (IOW, shut up)
    There are also claims of: Working out is time missed that could be spent in the field picking up pussy.
    And
    “If you get really ripped you might start picking fights, yo!”

    Now, from my perspective (and keep in mind I am one self-admitted lazy bitch and even I can manage to exercise and always have, regardless of how busy I’ve been). If you can’t be bothered to go to the gym or just maintain some level of decent shape, even for your own sake, that says a lot about you.
    Plus, the comments are LONG. Like, if they’d spent that time in the gym instead of posting online they’d be in pretty decent shape.

    And the truth is (TRP is ostensibly about truth) accomplishment brings confidence. From their perspective (I’ve gathered this from their own words) confidence that comes from an outside source is losing frame, the only thing that matters is some sort of internal “sub-coms”. I have to call rubbish on this as a lifestyle plan.

    If one is simply a fat keyboard jockey with no useful life skills that’s really not much different from the feminist argument that “he should love me for my awesome personality!” while she sits like a cow and eats like a sow. So at the end of the day, if they can “slay that pussy” go for it (I am a skeptic about some of these claims). But at some point they too aren’t living reality if they think this makes for a useful future. And look at what the most successful PUAs of all time are up to now. Doesn’t seem a very useful lifetime plan for them either.

    They can slice this “internal subcom” stuff as thin as they like and debate minutia. But the result is, when people work on making themselves better in practical reality things usually work out better for them in the long run.

    So drawing from that last bit, at the end of the day it doesn’t so much matter the reality of one’s world view, what matters is the result. The two often meet but from time to time one can even get good results from inaccurate world views. To quote Scott Adams: “Some famous philosophers, some scientists, and at least one cartoonist would speculate that inaccurate world views are the only kind there is.”

    Liked by 2 people

  124. Liz I’d guess if those guys are getting tail, it’s with the fuglies who would go home w anyone for some attention. Or they are pathalogical liars who pretend they aren’t who they really are.

    Liked by 1 person

  125. I even know two guys who are naturals who cleaned up w the ladies in their youth but who are now struggling @ 45ish to attract gals bc they both never developed much else beyond “hey baby…” No hobbies, no personal growth, no self awareness, no real accomplishments. And these guys are naturals, not keyboard jockeys speculating how it “should” work!

    Liked by 2 people

  126. Liz says:

    I’m not going to speculate on that Bloom. 😉

    Just sayin’….no accomplishments + “internal sub com whatever” doesn’t equal good lifestyle plan.
    But Rollo (and others) already took issue with it. Again. And again…and again. It’s like two different tribes.

    Liked by 2 people

  127. Yoda says:

    What precisely “internal subcom” it is?

    Liked by 1 person

  128. Liz says:

    “What precisely “internal subcom” it is?”

    I think it’s supposed to be something akin to confidence/game. Which Rollo is an advocate of. BUT
    …in this case (the arguing PUA case), it’s in the context of a logorrheic circumlocutory excluded middle fallacy land. They’ve actually argued against accomplishment, but then dressed it up with a bunch of cap locks and repetitive speech.

    Liked by 2 people

  129. Liz says:

    One person said best a while back…they’re essentially arguing over how many angels are dancing on the head of a pin, agreeing on the number, and then arguing over it again.
    At any rate, I’ll drop it now.

    Liked by 2 people

  130. Wait, before we drop it, I would add that of it weren’t for the current attitudes toward sex, guys who were just slaying poon but not contributing otherwise w some necessary skill set would likely have been driven off by other men (fathers, brothers, etc) rather than invited to hang out.

    Liked by 4 people

  131. Yoda says:

    Lindy West released a book last week, Shrill: Notes from a Loud Woman, in which she writes about feminism, fat-shaming and online trolls.

    The book, whose front cover carries a quote by Lena Dunham calling West “an essential (and hilarious) voice for women,” is purportedly a stand against a culture that silences women it deems to be too opinionated or too “antagonistic.”

    But when conservatives and libertarians—some of whom contend they’ve never even weighed in on feminist issues—went on Twitter went to check out West’s profile, they found that they’d been blocked. En masse.

    http://heatst.com/culture-wars/feminist-author-lindy-west-pre-emptively-blocks-conservatives-on-twitter/

    Liked by 1 person

  132. Yoda says:

    Hillary Clinton stopped referring to herself as the potential “youngest woman president” during campaign stump speeches after polling showed that it was not helping with voters and donors.

    http://dailycaller.com/2016/05/23/report-hillary-dropped-gender-talk-after-negative-internal-polling/

    Liked by 3 people

  133. Yoda says:

    I found that via the NYT, which reports that Sony Pictures is unhappy that Hillary is horning in on their long-scheduled publicity for a movie that it really needs men not to hate

    In the best of circumstances, film studios are reluctant to let a big-budget film — “Ghostbusters” cost more than $150 million to make — become identified with a political candidate. Mr. Trump, who must overcome major weaknesses among female voters, has also shown a willingness to fuel the unwanted “Ghostbusters” gender debate

    don’t think too many men watch Ellen DeGeneres, so what’s the real problem for Sony? The NYT is trying to weave this into the usual gender politics, but I think the real problem for Sony is that it wants to sell the movie to women — that’s the point of going on Ellen DeGeneres — and putting Hillary on the same show saps the fun out of something that absolutely needs to be very, very fun.

    http://althouse.blogspot.com/2016/05/fan-reaction-to-news-that-hillary.html?m=1

    Liked by 2 people

  134. Yoda says:

    In an article for the New York Post, Kyle Smith argues that it’s time to start treating hate-crime hoaxers as criminals. He used the example of the recent Whole Foods cake hoaxer Rev. Jordan Brown, a gay man who claimed he ordered a cake that said “Love Wins” but when he got home, he claimed, he noticed that someone at the grocery bakery had added the word “fag” to the cake.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/hate-crime-hoaxers-should-be-prosecuted/article/2592039

    Liked by 1 person

  135. Yoda says:

    How to Fight Fat Shaming, Internet Trolls, and Rape Culture

    Lindy West gives us her best advice.

    http://m.motherjones.com/media/2016/05/lindy-west-talks-abortion-fat-shaming-trolls-and-rape-culture

    Like

  136. thedeti says:

    Rollo’s posts are consistently good, but extremely dense and verbose. Most of the time they have to be, as Rollo is able to get to the heart of what’s going on with men and women from a social dynamics perspective. He’s a good writer, but not nearly as good as the original Roissy, who is still the gold standard for manosphere writing.

    I don’t see a need anymore to argue about or discuss much about Game, or theory of Game. The PUAs have codified it and the rest of the ‘sphere has run with it, adapted it, and incorporated it into much of their own writings. Game is now taken as a given by everyone from Dalrock to Moose Norseman to Heartiste to PrivateMan to Rollo to Matt Forney to Donalgraeme to Vox Day and everyone in between.

    Of course, self improvement is the key. Every man needs to improve himself from his physical appearance to his diet to nutrition to hobbies to vocation. I think most men need to jettison the idea of marriage and fatherhood altogether, and concentrate on themselves. I don’t see the point of endless back and forth about whether this Game or that Game works, or analyzing “subcomms” (which, from skimming the Tribes thread, is either neurolinguistic analysis, kino, and/or subliminal messaging).

    Most men are not going to attract one woman long term. Marriage is a bad deal for most men. Most men are not attractive enough to keep a woman with them for decades. Most women are not going to pick one man and stay with him for decades — not when they have their own money, they don’t have to stay, they can always get sex if they want it, and all of society will make it as easy for them as possible to leave their marriages. Most men are not going to get married; and of the ones that do, most of them will not stay married.

    So most men are going to have to play the game – get fit, get sexually attractive, earn his own money, invest as little of it as possible in any woman, couple when they can, and end it when she finally leaves. most men are going to have to invest less in the women who flit in and out of their lives. Most men will have to presume that every relationship they have with any woman will have an expiration date during their lifetimes, and that the relationship will end because she just doesn’t want to be with him anymore, or found someone new. Most men aren’t going to do “pickup” either — it’ll be catch as catch can, get what you can when you can, and accept it when it finally ends a month, a year or five years down the road. That’s going to be the reality, the new normal, for boys and men coming up after me.

    Liked by 5 people

  137. thedeti says:

    The men of the future, the next 10 to 50 years, will have no choice but to elevate themselves and their own self interests above all else. Certainly, there is no point to most men investing anything in women or in society. Marriage will be out of the question for most of them, unless they are in the to 10 to 20% of earners. Those men, men who have resources and money, will still marry and will still have durable marriages.

    Marriage will return to its old, original purpose: forming a legal and economic partnership for the good of children of the marriage. Marrying for love and sexual attraction will fall by the wayside as fewer and fewer middle class and lower class men marry. And most men below the upper middle class will not marry because they cannot — they’re unable to attract a woman and get her to stay with him long term.

    Liked by 3 people

  138. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    While I am just guessing, because I won’t read the comments at Rollo’s, could it be that these guys are trying to garner social acceptance? While it doesn’t do much good to preach to the choir, it is nice to not have a hostile audience. It’s just basic human nature to crave acceptance.

    Yoda,
    I had hoped that we were done with Lindy West when Jezebel let her go. She is like a bad penny.

    Maybe it would be good to prosecute hate crime hoaxers. In the example cited, how much damage would they have done to Whole Foods? These people could have quite a racket going.

    Like

  139. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Dr. Helen on the point of the original post.
    https://pjmedia.com/drhelen/2016/05/24/the-decline-of-the-manly-man/

    Liked by 2 people

  140. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Deti,
    That is a valid prediction if things continue as they are. It is bleak too. The one thing that occurred to me as I read it, this is what women want. Men only react to the marketplace.

    Liked by 2 people

  141. BuenaVista says:

    “While I am just guessing, because I won’t read the comments at Rollo’s, could it be that these guys are trying to garner social acceptance?”

    Good move. You don’t want to have a meltdown reading internet commentary on a subject that interests you. Have a girl do it for you and report back in a public forum. Very sage.

    Liked by 1 person

  142. thedeti says:

    Much of the commentary about Game and pickup at Rollo’s isn’t helpful or illuminating at all. PUAs are the only ones now currently talking about and explicating about Game. Self improvement and GTOW, getting women when they can, is going to be the wave of the future for most men. Traditional marriage and fatherhood and patriarchy just aren’t going to happen for our lifetimes. Or, if men really want marriage, they’ll be waiting until theyre around 40, or until women are done with carouseling it when they themselves are around 40.

    Fuzzie, I thought I told you to get off the internets for a while. Perhaps a bit of a decompressing break is in order.

    Liked by 2 people

  143. Dragonfly says:

    Completely agree with what you said on Rollo’s, Liz. :/

    It kind of boggles my mind that people can spend so much time arguing online or trying to control what others write about like those men (as if that’s productive?). Maybe you can influence some… but at what expense to you? And how much time are you willing to sacrifice if time is money?

    The females do this, too… which really doesn’t make sense to me because most have children. I’m lucky I have just one at home right now during the day, and he naps a lot, and both sons have an early bedtime… so if I want to waste time commenting, I try to plan it so that it doesn’t affect them or their schedules with me.

    But the women that act like the guys arguing at Rollo’s over “internal subcomm”… um… they have like 4-6 children! Supposedly, a lot of them “homeschool” … I guess one of their classes is “let’s watch mommy make comments all over the blogosphere and spend her mental energy trying to control what others write about!” The men at Rollo’s don’t often have young children, and those PUA ones are single – they can waste their time without doing harm to their families I think.

    At least it shows me what I don’t want to become. I don’t want to be a woman with 6 children who spends too much time commenting online being catty and controlling when I’m in my 40’s.

    To me, that would be a massive failure.

    I like how you’ve stepped away from that place, Liz, and aren’t right in there trying to set everyone straight. You don’t seem concerned with setting *anyone* straight, even IB lol. It would be a waste of your time, even if you don’t have 4+ kids depending on your mental energy at this moment, it’d still be unproductive and foolish. hm…. **life applications**

    Liked by 2 people

  144. Spawny Get says:

    Death of even the pretence of democracy in the EU
    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/05/24/pamela-geller-european-union-vows-block-pro-freedom-anti-islamization-parties/

    It was reported Tuesday that the European Commission is moving to make sure that their hegemonic hold on European politics isn’t broken by populist parties that want to save Europe from the Muslim migrant invasion.
    “Norbert Hofer failed in his bid for Austria’s presidency, but he would have been cut out of EU decision-making,” reported the Times of London.

    “The EU will isolate and use sanctions against any far-right or populist governments that are swept to power or presidential office on the wave of popular anger against migration.”

    The Times quoted Jean-Claude Juncker, president of the European Commission, saying flatly: “There is no debate or dialogue with the far-right.”

    This is the modern face of fascism: the “anti-fascists.”

    Liked by 2 people

  145. Spawny Get says:

    Ghostbusters 2016 needs Hillary like the true Ghostbusters needed a remake.

    Liked by 2 people

  146. BuenaVista says:

    Spawny, do you think the Austrian election was properly handled? It looks like a classic, Chicago-style theft to me. If the rightists feel the same way, whoa. Blowback is going to be super hot.

    If the election results are accurate, it means that the 900,000 mailed votes trended Green/Socialist, because supposedly it was 50/50 before the mailed votes were counted.

    But. Older people vote via mail. Older people in Austria lean anti-immigrant. I’m curious what happens next in Austria.

    ***

    I used to travel a lot for work. I would just shove my foreign currency in an envelope, when I returned home, and seal it, then use it on the next trip.

    I was on a visit to Koln to see my brother (expat exec) and I whipped out my Deutsche marks. The boy and girl at the hotel said, “We wish we could take those but they’ve expired.”

    I don’t think Germany will go native, but I have hopes for Britain and France.

    Liked by 4 people

  147. BuenaVista says:

    DF, one reason men argue online is that … it’s fun. Arguing is not even allowed now in elite schools without all manner of supplicating, up-talking equivocations — and then, only if you let the girls win.

    When the internet was invented the first major forum was The Well. Threads were savage but intellectually invigorating. These days women and male sycophants suggest that aggressive thought is mean, hostile, dangerous, abusive, whatever. So another medium for challenging thought is corrupted by the feminists and their adoring incels.

    Liked by 2 people

  148. Ame says:

    BV –
    “one reason men argue online is that … it’s fun. ”

    I’ve not been following along but caught this line in my inbox.

    my Oldest LOVES to argue … she thinks it is FUN! she loves to argue things just to get people riled up, just to see their reactions, just to ‘get’ them! she’s been doing this since she could talk. she could even out-argue her dad, which was unobjectively hard to do. (that she was his daughter might have had something to do with it, but she could run circles around him, and he was good.)

    me … I HATE to argue. my 3 kids know this … i’ll stop ‘discussions/arguments’ right off the bat. they can take them where I can’t hear them. that doesn’t mean arguing is wrong … it means I, personally, don’t like it. years ago I read the book, Now Discover Your Strengths by Marcus Buckingham and Donald Clifton. it gives you a code to go online and take a little personality test to discover your strengths as they’ve defined them. my top five strengths are: Empathy, Harmony, Developer, Maximizer, and Positivity. well … empathy and harmony do not exist well with dissension and arguing. it’s my personality.

    also, I do accept (though am not a man so cannot fully understand) that men argue and banter and spar differently than women. and men can do this and walk away and have a beer together. if women were to spar like men, (in general), they wouldn’t speak to each other for days and would talk bad about each other behind their backs. we’re just different. and that’s a good thing.

    anyway … don’t know if any of this fits what’s already been said … but it hit a button that’s pushed all the time in our home 🙂 . my Oldest LOVES when she’s around people who love to argue. I just have to leave and plug my ears 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  149. Liz says:

    “Hillary Clinton stopped referring to herself as the potential “youngest woman president” during campaign stump speeches after polling showed that it was not helping with voters and donors.”

    The “youngest” woman president?
    That. Is. Damn. Funny. 😀
    She might as well go for “hottest” too! And more…
    Hillary: “If I’m elected, I will be the youngest, hottest, most likeable female president in history!”
    Oh, go for it Hillary. I triple dog dare you.

    Per debate, at my old forum (about 3 thousand members total, maybe around a hundred active when it was most hopping), it was about a ratio of about one active female contributor to maybe twenty or more active male contributors. The only person I ever had to ban from my inbox was a woman. Pretty sure she was psychotic.

    Deti’s future doesn’t sound very good to me. But then, 2022 was supposed to be the Soylent Green days. And think of the fun in the meantime!

    Liked by 3 people

  150. Spawny Get says:

    BV, I share your views regarding the results.

    The police here are asking for extensions of investigation time limits over election fraud (the expenses are very tightly limited). No objections from the politicians to these requests, until today. Nigel Farage’s intended seat. The cops turned up to make their request but we’re met by lawyers from the Tories opposing the extension for that seat alone. This stinks to high heaven.

    Liked by 3 people

  151. horseman says:

    So for a manly man at 52. Yesterday was the Canuck celebration of the Queens Grandmum, Victoria Day Monday closest to May 24. a.k.a. the May 2-4 (a 24 is a case of beer) the start of our summer.

    To honour the day built the new fire pit in 25 degree heat. Using just a wheelbarrow to luge stone from the fieldstone pile. Several hundred pounds then the puzzle to fit them.
    Bring on the pig, the maple logs and the apple wood for flavour.

    Liked by 1 person

  152. horseman says:

    Deti’s analysis is right but also there will be a collapse of the 5% ers who are flashy suits. After you take 15-20% of the consumers out of the marketplace (millenials, mgtows, retired boomers) aint gonna be money for the financial types and real estate moguls.

    I have been thru mergers in the 80s. A stroke of the pen and your “career” is gone and your status (Mortimer!!!!). So as we say around here, what is your useful zombie skill??

    I can back and train any large animal for work, my son is an elactrical apprentic.

    Liked by 4 people

  153. Spawny Get says:

    Horseman, once again your links look okay but fail to render for me. The thumbnail link works though.

    Anybody else see the issue with the 10:56 pix?

    Like

  154. Spawny Get says:

    Deti, the original Roissy was a magical discovery for me. He was my introduction to the manosphere. Back then even the comment threads were well worth reading(!!!).

    Liked by 2 people

  155. Spawny Get says:

    Don’t know if this link will work, am interested to know
    http://www.channel4.com/news/conservative-party-opposes-election-expenses-extension
    This is the attempted blocking of the investigation into the corruption of the failed Farage election.

    Liked by 3 people

  156. Yoda says:

    Actually Victoria the Queens Great Grand Mum she was.
    Also Prince Philip’s she was

    Liked by 1 person

  157. Spawny Get says:

    I meant one facet of the Farage failure to be elected and the rumours surrounding it.

    Like

  158. Yoda says:

    Suggest that the 10:56 pic from New Zealand it was.
    But from Canada actually it is.
    Confused I am

    Liked by 2 people

  159. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Spawny Get,
    The linki worked here in the US. It sounds as if the Conservatives are dirty and they know it.

    Liked by 2 people

  160. Spawny Get says:

    Thanks for the confirmation, Fuzzie. Channel 4 news is to the left of the beeb, but on this issue they seem good afaiaw

    Liked by 1 person

  161. Farm Boy says:

    There is a new post

    Liked by 1 person

  162. SFC Ton says:

    regarding Rollo”s place; one of the most annoying things about the comment section is the never ending field reports.
    Is anything ore boring or annoying then a long ass explanation on why you didn’t get laid?

    Liked by 3 people

  163. Liz says:

    “Good news: Venezuelans now so rich, they’re paying $170 for a hamburger”

    and

    Liked by 2 people

  164. Yoda says:

    Labour MPs who signed a motion praising Venezuela as a “social development model” included Emily Thornberry, now the Shadow Defence Secretary.

    And Labour shadow international development secretary Diane Abbott accepted £3,000 of hospitality from the Chavez regime, which she later praised as a a model which shows that “another way is possible.”

    https://heatst.com/politics/why-wont-the-left-apologize-for-backing-venezuela/

    Liked by 3 people

  165. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    They really made a mess of things. didn’t they?

    Like

  166. Spawny Get says:

    BV

    http://investmentwatchblog.com/austrian-election-was-rigged-a-village-with-nearly-150-voter-turnout-this-fraud-is-very-blatant-and-they-dont-even-care/

    I don’t know the source, but I don’t find the story to be very surprising

    Austrian election was rigged, a village with nearly 150% voter turnout… This fraud is very blatant, and they don’t even care.
    Submitted by IWB, on May 24th, 2016

    inShare

    These numbers on an official governmental site: 9026 eligible to vote and 12599 valid votes. All 300 extra “votws” go to the pro immigration leftist. Un-be-lievable.

    Liked by 1 person

  167. Liz says:

    These Irish brothers are now sisters.
    http://nypost.com/2016/05/24/these-irish-sisters-used-to-be-brothers/

    Odds there’s no father around? Pretty high I’d say.

    ““So I came out to Chloe and our mum last summer, and by November I had come out to all my friends and colleagues.”

    Liked by 1 person

  168. BuenaVista says:

    Ame, by “argument” I mean the assertion and defense of ideas — an Aristotelian definition of dialectic. You’re describing a lot of yelling and emoting as argument, which is uninteresting to me, and accomplishes nothing. (This is described by Aristotle as “rhetoric.”)

    I found that in healthy companies disagreement is healthy, provided everyone is committed first to deriving the one best answer. In 20 years I never had a dispute with my business partner, because we approached disagreement as an opportunity to find the best answer. I think the longest that we were ever in disagreement was three hours. We just went into a room and went to the white board and we always came out with a plan.

    Most people on the internet just lose their shit if their ideas are shown to be weak or false. Which is why most people on the internet are a waste of time.

    Similarly, I’ve found that discussing politics is largely pointless with most people, but I enjoy policy, and oddly, my lefty friends seem to understand when I say, “I won’t talk politics, but happy to discuss policy.”

    Liked by 2 people

  169. BuenaVista says:

    Spawny, the clerisy throughout the West appears to be very correctly concerned that we live in a populist moment. Since it’s probably The End for anyone not prepared to bow before the diversity/multi-cultural/socialist model, there are disruptive populist and nativist movements. If they continue to gain power, they’ll have to be outlawed, I guess.

    And after that, armed civil conflict?

    I’m curious to see what happens in Austria when this fraud is exposed. My suspicion is that the populace is so familiar with their place in a paternalistic, infantalizing socialist-paradise culture that they’ll wave their arms and scream a lot, but do nothing.

    Liked by 3 people

  170. Spawny Get says:

    Apparently the post that was stolen is more figurehead than powerful, but I reckon they’ve just sealed the fate of the next election. The clerisy just sent a huge, technicolor, 3D fuck you to the public. Also note that the ‘main stream’ candidates didn’t make it to the final stage of the election, so the public technically sent the first ‘fuck you’. The clerisy had to get behind the only alternative to the ‘far-right’ (ie doesn’t agree with the clerisy) candidate. ‘Far right’ is dying as an SJW shaming tactic. It’s like femeroids screeching ‘misogyny’. Or, SJWs screaming ‘racist’. Everyone’s a far-right, racist misogynist according to them…so who cares anymore? They shot their bolt.

    The peasants are revolting, I tell you.

    Isn’t there a theory that there’s a critical mass for a movement? Once reached the sheeple come into line with it very quickly. There was some kind of academic research done on it. 49+% in this election is way over that threshold. I do wonder what is next.

    In the UK the pollsters are reporting that the Remainiacs are winning, but then they screwed up at the general election. All the MSM polls online show (iirc) ~73% for GTFO #BREXIT

    Liked by 3 people

  171. Liz says:

    Obviously I enjoy debate, and always have.
    I’ve mentioned before why. (but, I’m probably kidding myself…and just find it fun, kind of like solving riddles/puzzles/ strategy games and other types of fun mental exercise) I also enjoy just watching from a human psych perspective (example, olloRay’s last topic’s commentary section with the UPAys)

    Debate is how decisions get made and executed the majority of the time in the real world. In business, politics, community groups, and so forth. One can do all the cost-benefit analysis and PowerPoint presentations he or she wants, but until the decision makers have been persuaded and have discussed it among themselves and with other interested parties no decision will be made. If the person coming to the table with the idea is not effectively persuasive and cannot cite supporting evidence or address points of clarification and criticism without taking them personally (turning debate into an all-out argument), the decision will not go his/her way.

    I think that if (a person) cannot explain why he or she believes what they do, then most likely don’t truly believe it. So I think it’s important to hone one’s belief system to determine whether one’s ideas live up to scrutiny. I like to test my views against those of others and see how they stand up. If they don’t, they evolve. So, I challenge ideas and ask questions.
    I’ve been testing my general ideas and views, holding them up to scrutiny, for many years now. The sphere is another stepping stone for me.

    Liked by 1 person

  172. Liz says:

    I employeth the pig latin above because I said I’d drop it.
    But…it has been quite interesting to reflect on.
    Not the discussion itself so much as the way certain posters responded.
    :::zip:::

    Liked by 1 person

  173. Spawny Get says:

    Good channel

    also

    Liked by 1 person

  174. Dragonfly says:

    Debate is good – and yes, challenging your beliefs is very beneficial to learning. I was more talking about the insane, nonsensical kinds of “arguments” that often do use destructive tactics to get their point across.

    The Hebrew men would argue extremely passionately about the texts and their meanings until they came to some kind of agreement – that’s how they discussed religious texts and their applications! But women didn’t (or couldn’t?) take part in that. Not to say that women’s minds can’t debate passionately and intellectually… of course they can. But I was talking about nonsensical arguments and mothers of large families wasting their time in these things because they’re bored or idle.

    Liked by 1 person

  175. Dragonfly says:

    “I think that if (a person) cannot explain why he or she believes what they do, then most likely don’t truly believe it. So I think it’s important to hone one’s belief system to determine whether one’s ideas live up to scrutiny. I like to test my views against those of others and see how they stand up. If they don’t, they evolve. So, I challenge ideas and ask questions.
    I’ve been testing my general ideas and views, holding them up to scrutiny, for many years now.”

    This is so good!

    But on the other hand… don’t you think that sometimes explaining yourself (entering an argument) is just a waste of time? Like what happened on Rollo’s… or like when that Emily woman was posting there, or IB for that matter…. To me, a lot of people online have something seriously wrong with them.

    Why argue with crazy?

    Liked by 2 people

  176. Liz says:

    “But on the other hand… don’t you think that sometimes explaining yourself (entering an argument) is just a waste of time?”

    Most definitely.
    Without a doubt.
    Certamente

    We did have a topic once that was probably more fun and challenging than all the rest (after posters became very well acquainted with each other and the community was pretty tight for a while…this included people with a diverse array of beliefs, but it went south around the election years). We had to pick an idea we disagreed with and defend it (earnestly). This was elective, and it was a topic of one’s choice. But it was quite fun. 🙂

    Like

  177. Liz says:

    “But on the other hand… don’t you think that sometimes explaining yourself (entering an argument) is just a waste of time?”

    Should’ve added:
    More often than not, on the internetz.

    Like

  178. That one female commenter is nutty for sure. I love how Rollo just explains she secretly loves him, lol! Likely so, too! Attention seeking– even negative attention is attention to attention whores!

    Liked by 1 person

  179. In other news…

    “”I’ve heard people say: I don’t know who to choose: Trump or Hillary. Even Bill Clinton chose other women. So you should, too,” Chavez said to laughter and applause.”

    Wow, zing!

    Liked by 2 people

  180. Liz says:

    “That one female commenter is nutty for sure. I love how Rollo just explains she secretly loves him, lol!”

    It’s no secret, it’s pretty obvious. She’s tried and retried to post for a couple of months now, begging, but he keeps deleting her messages. Then she posts at other sites how everyone there is “sad” and too stupid to dox her even though she has give out all sorts of information on herself. AFTER posting how “afraid” she is of them (and then proceeding to share selfies after saying she’s “afraid”, then…”I’m not afraid anymore..” then “I’ll be nice! This time!” then….”Wait!?! Call me!”
    Then back to “they’re so sad….” (and the begging starts again)
    It’s. In a word. Odd.
    But illuminating.

    Liked by 1 person

  181. Liz says:

    I think she might be less stable than PJ (and definitely less entertaining).

    Liked by 2 people

  182. horseman says:

    Our Prime Minister took today off from the G7 conference…to spend his anniversary with his wife. Fuck, talk about setting high national expectations.

    No honey, my boss isnt as progressive as sir Justin, I gotta go to work

    Liked by 1 person

  183. Liz says:

    Hey, lets’ start a random OT debate here.
    Who was most responsible for the Germans losing WWII?
    I vote the Italians!!!

    Liked by 1 person

  184. Yoda says:

    Venezuela is an example of The Curse of Natural Resources.

    The idea that resources might be more of an economic curse than a blessing began to emerge in debates in the 1950s and 1960s about the economic problems of low and middle-income countries.[3] The term resource curse was first used by Richard Auty in 1993 to describe how countries rich in mineral resources were unable to use that wealth to boost their economies and how, counter-intuitively, these countries had lower economic growth than countries without an abundance of natural resources. An influential study by Jeffrey Sachs and Andrew Warner found a strong correlation between natural resource abundance and poor economic growth.

    http://chicagoboyz.net/archives/52747.html

    Like

  185. Yoda says:

    Copeland recounted a story about how he was investigated for violating Title IX because he once hurt the feelings of a female student. Copeland was coordinating rehearsals for a play, and “spoke sharply,” according to Heller, to a female student, who ran out of the room. Copeland wanted to make things right and meet with the student and the department chair. The student requested he leave the room so she could speak to the department chair.

    Copeland was later called to meet with the school’s dean of arts and sciences. Copeland had allegedly created “a hostile and unsafe learning environment” because he “verbally berated” that student. He was told he couldn’t be told which students complained or the specifics of the complaints. He was asked to sign a document acknowledging the complaints.

    “I’m thinking, Oh, God! I’m cast in one of my least favorite plays of all time, The Crucible, by Arthur Miller!” Copeland told Heller.

    Copeland gave the dean a list of students that could confirm he never “berated” anyone. The dean brushed it off, apparently telling Copeland: “What matters is that the student felt unsafe.”

    Get that? It didn’t matter what the facts were, what matters is that someone’s feelings were hurt.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/when-feels-matter-more-than-facts/article/2592131

    Liked by 1 person

  186. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    To borrow from George Pickett, I think the Germans had something to do with it.

    Liked by 1 person

  187. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    “It didn’t matter what the facts were>”
    I think that we have problem with this.

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