Do or Do Not


Last week I was at a McDonald’s on an unseasonably hot day.  As I was about to get into my car, a woman came up to me and presented her story.  She was 6 months pregnant (seemed to be true), she was in the city because her Mom was dying of cancer in the hospital, , she was diabetic, her car broke down at that McDonalds, and she needed a ride to a different McDonalds where her friend worked.  She even suggested that she would walk to the McDonalds (1.5 miles away) if needed.

What would you do if you were a guy?

Do you consider the risks? Yes.

But before you decide, let me add one more fact.  Before she approached me, she approached a couple in the parking lot and asked them.  They said that they did not have a car and that they walked in.  This lead me to believe that she was legit, for if she was scamming, she would not have wanted another woman in the car.

So I gave her the ride.  It was more like three miles to the McDonalds that she wanted to go to.  Nothing happened.

Would I do it again?  Probably not.  After reflection, I probably should have suggested that she find a woman to take her.  These are the wages of the war on men.

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Posted in FarmBoy, Trainwreck
181 comments on “Do or Do Not
  1. Ame says:

    my husband had a similar situation about a month ago. he gave her a ride – about the same distance as your story. would he do it again? idk. probably not. but, still, it was a very odd thing all around. he happened to see her walking in a direction later that would indicate her story was not entirely true.

    as his wife … knowing what i know about how women screw innocent men out there, i wish he hadn’t. i just don’t trust women.

    Liked by 4 people

  2. Tarnished says:

    I have given rides to people of both sexes who are coworkers, friends, relatives, and even neighbors. Namely, men and women I either know well or am at least close acquaintances with.

    Regardless of my sex, I would not give a ride to a strange male or female. Too many crazies are out there to ever be truly safe doing so. However, I would absolutely offer to get them a bus ticket/help call them a cab and pay the fare if the destination was close by, or let them use my phone to ask a friend to be picked up.

    Liked by 4 people

  3. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I don’t think that I want to be a taxi driver.

    Her employer finally fired her.

    There was another incident that happened in Edmonton AB. Three girls left a club and refused to pay threatening to accuse the driver of sexual misconduct. He had in cab surveillance. Cops were called but no charges. Last word was that he was threatening to sue.

    With my first reading, I was thinking positively of helping. What has happened is that men have to be defensive now.
    Sorry ladies, you did it to yourselves.

    Liked by 4 people

  4. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    The blogger Bob Wallace, who used to drive a cab, says that drivers are avoiding picking up women from bars and clubs.

    Liked by 3 people

  5. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It used to be the other way around.

    Liked by 4 people

  6. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I am surprised that it is still on youtube.

    Liked by 3 people

  7. BuenaVista says:

    Yeah, midnight in a convenience store, deep winter, woman behind me in line starts weeping. I pay, and start walking out, and she’s just weeping. It’s about 10 below, usual 30 mph gale. She’s trying to get someone to tell her where she’s going is just a few blocks, and she can walk. Everyone is ignoring her or is too drunk to process the problem.

    Where she’s trying to go (the Walmart) is three miles away. There’s no sidewalk.

    To be honest, as a boy I was in that situation a couple of times. Once I spent my last $1.00 to take the subway home from 96th Street to my room on 16th, in NYC. And I didn’t have my keys when I arrived. So I walked 80 blocks back to my friends and borrowed money. Another time I was looking for my ex-; we were traveling in Europe and had a fight in Chamonix. She went off to Geneva, and I then followed her; I remember being alone in the quiet city, lost, asking for directions in my broken french. I remember the smile a well-dressed man gave me as he scurried away, and I blurted out “Je suis seul!”

    I drove her to the Walmart, where she said her sister worked. She wanted to talk but I was silent. I’m not sure who felt more alone.

    Liked by 3 people

  8. Ame says:

    BV – i hope you were serious about writing a book. your words … are powerful.

    ==========

    it’s sad we live in a world where we have to be extra cautious if/when/how we help people.

    when i find lost children in public places, i’m always very careful to make sure i comfort and direct them to a police station without looking like i’m trying to kidnap them or hurt them.

    an elderly lady was in front of me in the grocery store line, and she was quite frazzled. i tried to ignore her, but as she talked, i just couldn’t. turns out she thinks someone picked her wallet while she was shopping. the cashier didn’t say anything, so i stepped in, had the manager called, made sure the manager called the police, made sure they were going to look at the film, made sure she would call her son to help, and basically held her hand and hugged her till she could be calm enough to handle the rest on her own.

    i know there have been times i’ve helped people and been taken advantage of. but i really don’t want to loose my desire to help, i just want to be wise and careful about it. as a woman, it would be very unwise for me to give someone i don’t know a ride, but i have stayed with people till help could arrive.

    my aspie girl’s needs have been such that i’ve not been able to commit to regular volunteer things since she was born. since i haven’t been able to do much, i do what i can when it’s presented and is safe, or perceived safe, to do so.

    i think … a lot of times we just have to go with our gut.

    Liked by 3 people

  9. Tarnished says:

    One can be helpful, but cautiously so.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Ame,
    What a wonderful business model! I’ll bet they get very busy in Decembet.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Ame says:

    Fuzzie – have you not heard of build-a-bear before?!

    oh.my.word! I was so thankful when my girls outgrew build-a-bear. of course, then their technology got more expensive 😉

    it’s kinda cute, though … you go in and pick out an Unstuffed animal. then you can pick out a heart for them to put inside and watch them stuff it. I think there are other things you can put inside, too. THEN, they have all these clothes for the animals! from underwear to shoes to hats to bows to everything you can think of – they make a ton of moolah 🙂 . oh, and then each one has pets. it’s a very smart business. they have certainly made money off of us in the past 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  12. Ame says:

    Fuzzie – my MOST favorite cuddly teddy bears are made by Gund … esp the ones like this … when you cuddle them, they’re looking up at you with the sweetest-can’t-resist-you face! it broke my heart to give these away when my girls outgrew them 😦

    https://www.gund.com/product/snuffles+bear+black+-+4043801.do?sortby=ourPicksAscend&page=4&refType=&from=fn

    Liked by 1 person

  13. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It’s a little too easy for women to make false accusations. The Judge gets to the bottom of this one in the first six minutes.

    The accuser’s motive was to give her small claims lawsuit more spice.

    Liked by 3 people

  14. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Ame,
    That is something to put on the bucket list. I have never been to a Build a Bear store.
    I like Gund. Modestly priced so kids can love them without restraint.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Ame says:

    Fuzzie – that would be a VERY fun field trip! too bad we don’t all live close enough to go together. can you imagine us all walking into a build-a-bear together and picking out stuff-n-fluff?!!!

    which one would you pick (that’s available online right now)?

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Ame says:

    my aspie girl loved, LOVED stuff-n-fluff, as we called them. we lived close to a very nice thrift store when they were little. i’d give them each $1.00 each time we went. a lot of times their stuffed toys were on sale, and my girls learned the value of money … how much they could and could not get with $1.00 … if they saved it for the next time … etc. they also learned to haggle a little when they really wanted something that was priced more than they had. those were fun days.

    aspie girl would gather families … we had families of every kind of stuffed animal she could find. she’d line them all up in her bed every night. fun times 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  17. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Ame,
    I have all the stuffed animals that I need at home right now and, yes, I still have my bear.
    I used to work close to a closet of a store that had over three hundred handmade teddy bears. It was ll kinds of fun to make up stories about them. Who knows what they get up to when humans aren’t around?

    Liked by 3 people

  18. Ame says:

    ohhh, Fuzzie! that would be an awesome place to shop!

    Oldest’s kindergarten teacher would have a Teddy Bear Sleep Over every year. she’d have all the kids come back up to school in their pj’s with their fav stuffed animal. she’d read them a bed time story, and then they’d all tuck in their stuffed animal to spend the night in the classroom. man, was it tough for those littles to leave their fav stuffed animal in their classroom overnight!

    but, the next morning, when they’d get to school, they’d find their stuffed animals had been VERY naughty! they were flying from the ceiling, had empty pizza boxes and popcorn everywhere, got out all the books and toys and strewn them around the room! you should have seen those sweet children’s faces as they walked into that classroom! I have the sweetest pictures! there were notes left around the room, too. the kids had to find their animal and discover what they’d done all night … then they all had to clean up their stuffed animal’s mess. but it was one of the funnest school things we ever did. the teacher was sweet enough to let my youngest participate, too, with her sister. it was awesome 🙂

    Liked by 4 people

  19. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Ame,
    That is the first I have heard of anything like that.I LOVE IT!!!

    Liked by 1 person

  20. I am glad you gave the girl a ride and also that she wasn’t working a scam. I doubt I would have given her a ride, I think about three points in to the hard luck tale I would have begun to suspect it was a tall tale. I like Tarn’s midway suggestions, offer to call a cab or help in some way wo exposing oneself directly to risk or harm. It has a “Good Samaratian” feel to it, in fact!

    Liked by 4 people

  21. Liz says:

    “i think … a lot of times we just have to go with our gut.”

    Yes, I think you just have to be there to really sum up the situation and figure out if she is crazy, or has a scam, or is sincere. On the one side, the potential risks are high…she might be super evil and crazy and a grifter. As Fuzzie noted above, an uber driver might be in this position too. Mike would probably give her a lift, too…after talking to her for a little while to make an assessment.

    Society is overall better when people help each other and it’s also good for the person doing helping (assuming it’s legit). It sucks that the assholes of the world have poisoned things to the point good people have to live in fear of doing good things.

    Liked by 3 people

  22. Yoda says:

    Fuzzie off the hook he is

    A Campbell County man has pleaded guilty to lying about being attacked by a bear.

    http://www.wbir.com/mb/news/crime/man-admits-he-lied-about-bear-attack/160280729

    Liked by 2 people

  23. Yoda says:

    Hillay’s padawan,

    Huma Abedin is one truly devoted Hillary aide. Newsweek profiles Abedin’s role as the “body-woman” to Hillary Clinton.
    “She was a very, very religious person—she didn’t smoke, drink or swear, always very polite,” recalls one Clinton friend, who, like most people who spoke to Newsweek, asked not to be named. “A lot of times, Hillary would snap her fingers and go, ‘Gum.’ And Huma would fetch it.” Abedin took her duties so seriously, the source recalled, that when she learned that Clinton had once carried her own bag up a flight of stairs in her aide’s absence, Abedin nearly burst into tears.

    http://betsyspage.blogspot.com/2016/04/cruising-web_29.html?m=1

    Like

  24. Yoda says:

    America’s premier game-design program canceled an all-star industry panel last week for the sole reason that the lineup was all-male.

    http://heatst.com/culture-wars/usc-cancels-legends-of-the-games-industry-event-for-not-including-women/

    Like

  25. Yoda says:

    A mother leaves her son in the car while popping into a store at a strip mall. She is charged with contributing to the delinquency of a minor. A high school senior complains to her Facebook friends about a teacher and is suspended for “cyberbullying.” Students at Wellesley start a petition calling for the removal of a statue of a man in his underwear, claiming that the art piece caused them emotional trauma. So many residents of Santa Monica, California, claim to need emotional support animals that the local farmer’s market warns against service dog fraud

    How did American culture arrive at these moments? A new research paper by Nick Haslam, a professor of psychology at the University of Melbourne, Australia, offers as useful a framework for understanding what’s going on as any I’ve seen. In “Concept Creep: Psychology’s Expanding Concepts of Harm and Pathology,” Haslam argues that concepts like abuse, bullying, trauma, mental disorder, addiction, and prejudice, “now encompass a much broader range of phenomena than before,”expanded meanings that reflect “an ever-increasing sensitivity to harm.”

    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/04/concept-creep/477939/

    Liked by 3 people

  26. Yoda says:

    Glorious Patriarch missing he is

    Liked by 1 person

  27. Yoda says:

    It sucks that the assholes of the world have poisoned things to the point good people have to live in fear of doing good things.

    Wonder if intentional this is

    Liked by 2 people

  28. Yoda says:

    Regardless of my sex, I would not give a ride to a strange male or female

    If good sex you had,
    Give a ride you would not.
    If bad sex you had,
    give a ride you would not.
    Consistent you would be

    Liked by 1 person

  29. Yoda says:

    Here Liz being asked about Mike she is

    Liked by 5 people

  30. Liz says:

    I wish I could triple like that one, Yoda. 😀

    Liked by 1 person

  31. Liz says:

    “Abedin took her duties so seriously, the source recalled, that when she learned that Clinton had once carried her own bag up a flight of stairs in her aide’s absence, Abedin nearly burst into tears.”

    Here is a video of Hillary with one of her aides:

    Liked by 2 people

  32. Horseman says:

    Warning: Threadjack approaching.
    Need to ask this and looking for honesty not just to poke the bear. (not you Fuzzie)
    I work in health care with 5:1 female male ratio and have seen the I’m not happy play out over and over. As I access the benefits files I KNOW over 60% of the female staff claim no male on benefits or indicate single. Putting aside the EatPrayLove thing. and seeing virtually all of them still single years later.

    Here is my question.
    Realistically what value does a 40+ woman bring to any man?

    Looks …post Wall and at best a rearguard action
    Babies….. really? 1% with 30k of IVF
    Money….at forty the guy has his own or is used to do without.
    Companionship….the guys and dog are waaaay less trouble and do fun stuff.
    Fun Stuff…antiquing? gardening?….no baseball, hunting, beer drinking
    Sex….um see Looks plus a lower libedo and alternatives (porn)
    Die Alone….Google George Cloony Sell Me Marriage

    Also compare the golf swing speech in Tin Cup and the I believe speech in Bull Durham to the I dont feel that speech in Up In The Air. Basically that Soulmate feeling?? Can be found in a well hit golf shot, line drive or good scotch.

    So forget why they blow it up. What intrinsic value does a 40 year old woman have even if she is an 6 (as Dalrock says there are no 8s after 40 even Heidi Klum. 8 for her age but in SMP a 6 at best.)

    p.s. Mrs moved out for three months two years ago. Saw her options. Came back very red pill. What keeps us strong…my default setting is There is the door.

    Again looking for a real answer on value not just throwing mgtow gernades.

    Asked the same question at RPGs.

    Liked by 3 people

  33. Horseman says:

    p.s. I triggered the split once the kids went to school. Sick of the shit so said my obligations to my family are fulfilled so I am done unless she gives me an excellent reason not to be. She did and does daily (if ya know what i mean….yup beer and bratwurst)

    Liked by 3 people

  34. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    I just read your link. This man is a lot of trouble for falsely accusing a bear.

    http://www.wbir.com/mb/news/crime/man-admits-he-lied-about-bear-attack/160280729

    The legal mechanisms are there. False rape claims are expensive all the way around. It’s long past time.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Mrs. Horseman came back? Usually, modern women are too proud to admit they made a mistake. Maybe she was perceptive neough to see that the SMP is not very kind to women past forty. However, most of them think that they can pick up where they left off on the carousel.

    Liked by 3 people

  36. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    All thse cats gone bad. What a terribvle thought.
    The mice are clebrating! *happy face with mouse ears*

    Liked by 1 person

  37. Tarnished says:

    Realistically what value does a 40+ woman bring to any man?

    To any random man she decides to marry at 40, or to a man who she has shared a life of trials, happiness, and love with? Also, are we talking marriage any non-platonic relationship?

    Again looking for a real answer on value not just throwing mgtow gernades.

    That’s obvious, Horseman. A real MGTOW grenade wouldn’t need to specify the age of the woman… *wink*

    Liked by 2 people

  38. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Looking t that picture again made me think of cleaning the litter box. PU!!!

    Horseman,
    At about that age, marrige turns from being a compromise for women into a benefit.For some reason, feminists seem to overlook this.

    Liked by 1 person

  39. Tarnished says:

    I’ll go point by point for myself at 40, though I’m “only” 32 at the moment:

    Looks…No 40 year old is as attractive as they were (or could’ve been) in their mid-20s. This is fact for 99% of the population (including both me and my lover), so there’s little use in getting upset over it. However, if I keep to the lifestyle I have now, I anticipate looking younger than my actual age as I do now, or at least still have a body I (and my man) am pleased with.

    Babies…No. Not in a million years. If the guy wants kids, he shouldn’t go past date #1 with me because he’d absolutely be wasting his time and mine.

    Money…I have my own. He has his own. If we combine them (yes, as fairly as possible) we can afford more. Take longer trips. Cross things off our bucket lists together than we couldn’t manage apart. Or he may just enjoy being with a female who never expects him to spend money on them.

    Companionship & Fun Stuff…Why on earth would you be with someone who doesn’t share a majority of your interests in the first place? Your SO should be your best friend, the person you can and do share everything with. I wouldn’t ever (and currently do not) expect my man to have drastically different ideas of what is fun. We’re about 80% the same in that regard, so the companionship is just us naturally wanting to spend time together.

    Sex…I eagerly await the day when I’m no longer horny 24/7/365. Okay, that’s a lie, cause it’ll likely mean I’m dead or in a coma. But suffice to say I don’t think going from hyper-libido to something slightly more normal would necessarily be bad. Especially since at 40 my guy with be nearly 56, and I don’t want to strain his body *too* badly. He already has to catch his breath and deal with a racing heart when we’re done…I don’t need him to worry about heart attacks too.

    Die Alone…Being in a relationship is not a guarantee that you’ll have someone next to you when you take the big dirt nap. For all I know, I could die cold and alone after my car slips on black ice and tumbles down one of the numerous mountain roads in my area next winter. Who knows? Not me. Better to savor the moments I am sure about, and that includes having people in my life I care about.

    Liked by 4 people

  40. Tarnished says:

    At about that age, marrige turns from being a compromise for women into a benefit.

    How, Fuzzie?
    I’m not saying you are wrong. Just wondering what your reasons are.

    Like

  41. Spawny Get says:

    Horseman,
    I assume that you’ve seen the marriage rate analysis for never married women by age? Dalrock kicks arse, but so did Han Solo at JFG.

    The TL;DR is that if first marriage for a woman doesn’t happen by 35…it doesn’t happen (at a statistically significant rate).

    Probably worth a post as it’s been a while since this came up.

    Liked by 3 people

  42. Tarnished says:

    Of course, my comment at 7:33 is all about appealing to a dude who’s actually looking for a lover/friend. If he isn’t interested in relationships of any kind…as some MGTOW are not…I could have all the Best Qualities Ever, and it wouldn’t matter one bit to him. But I’d still have worth as a person just like anyone else.

    Liked by 4 people

  43. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    Karen Straughan explains it better in her “Why Men Aren’t Marrying Anymore” video but, I’ll try.
    It’s like a built in retirement plan. She has a home for the rest of her life, irrespective of her declining beauty or inability to bear children.
    While Dalrock points out that divorce rates go down as age goes up, he points out that they also go down as the ability to remarry goes down. What I bring up may be a part of it.

    Liked by 3 people

  44. Tarnished says:

    It’s like a built in retirement plan. She has a home for the rest of her life, irrespective of her declining beauty or inability to bear children.

    What stops her from having that as a 65 year old never married woman, so long as she was smart with her investments and retirement funds?

    Liked by 2 people

  45. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    I think you may have given me another reason for women not needing men. Yes, if she was smart and lucky. She could keep herself and her cats in comfort.

    Liked by 1 person

  46. Tarnished says:

    For what it’s worth, I think it’s just worth it to find someone who adds positive attributes to your life, makes it easier to deal with hardships, is willing to always be there for you without reservation, and who you look forward to being with everyday.

    Liked by 2 people

  47. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    Curious, it looks as if they are levelling off.

    Liked by 1 person

  48. Tarnished says:

    She could keep herself and her cats in comfort.

    Like Spawny does for his kitties? *wink*

    Mea culpa, O Glorious Patriarch. It was low hanging fruit.

    Liked by 2 people

  49. Ame says:

    Horseman –
    “Realistically what value does a 40+ woman bring to any man?

    Looks …post Wall and at best a rearguard action
    Babies….. really? 1% with 30k of IVF
    Money….at forty the guy has his own or is used to do without.
    Companionship….the guys and dog are waaaay less trouble and do fun stuff.
    Fun Stuff…antiquing? gardening?….no baseball, hunting, beer drinking
    Sex….um see Looks plus a lower libedo and alternatives (porn)
    Die Alone….Google George Cloony Sell Me Marriage”

    put that way, nothing.

    Liked by 1 person

  50. Sumo says:

    No 40 year old woman is as attractive as they were (or could’ve been) in their mid-20s.

    Fixed that for ya. 😉

    Liked by 3 people

  51. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    The last two charts are alarming. It is likely female driven and with it goes the nuclear family.

    Like

  52. Tarnished says:

    Well, if the Mighty Sumo has met men whom he finds better looking with an aged body/face, who am I to judge? *wink*

    Twas only speaking for myself…

    Like

  53. Tarnished says:

    Fuzzie,

    I think it may be female driven to an extent, but a lot of it is also economically based.

    In a recent Washington Post opinion piece, Catherine Rampell, a young columnist, argued marriage is desired but simply out of reach for many millennials.

    “Even as marriage rates have plummeted — particularly for the young and the less educated — Gallup survey data show that young singles very much hope to get hitched. Of Americans age 18 to 34, only about nine percent have both never been married and say they do not ever want to marry,” she wrote.

    “Although there is now a growing class divide in who gets and stays married in America, there is virtually no divide in the aspiration to marry,” she quoted from an interview with W. Bradford Wilcox, director of the National Marriage Project at the University of Virginia.

    “It doesn’t matter if you’re rich or poor, white, black or Hispanic. Most Americans are married or would like to marry. The challenge, then, facing the United States is bridging the gap between the nearly universal aspiration to marry and the growing inability of poor and working-class Americans to access marriage,” said Wilcox.

    Liked by 1 person

  54. Tarnished says:

    A new Pew Research survey finds that about half of all never-married adults (53%) say they would like to marry eventually. This share is down somewhat from 2010, when 61% of never-married adults said they would like to marry someday. Roughly one-third of today’s never-married adults (32%) say they are not sure if they would like to get married, while 13% say they do not want to marry.

    Among those who have never been married but say they may eventually like to wed, three-in-ten say the main reason they are not married is that they have not found someone who has what they are looking for in a spouse. Nearly as many (27%) say they are not financially prepared for marriage, and 22% say they are too young or not ready to settle down. There are no significant differences between never-married men and women in this regard.

    Like

  55. Tarnished says:

    This is an odd tidbit of information. One would think it’d be reversed:

    Previously married adults show less interest in marriage than do never-married adults. Only one-in-five previously married adults (21%) say they would like to marry again, while a plurality (45%) say they do not want to get married again. (An additional 31% are not sure.) There is a large gender gap on this question. Previously married women are much less likely than their male counterparts to say they would like to get married again someday (15% of women compared with 29% of men). Fully 54% of these women say they are not interested in getting remarried (30% of men say the same).

    Like

  56. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    I am scratching my head. If they all want to be married, there is nothi8ng stopping them. Could it be the 80/20 rule? Seems to me that there aren’t enough top twenty percentile men to goo around.

    Like

  57. Liz says:

    Yoda: “What happens when you grow catnip in your backyard…”

    Hey! Where did you get this picture?
    I was young, and I swear I never inhaled.

    Liked by 3 people

  58. Liz says:

    “Companionship & Fun Stuff…Why on earth would you be with someone who doesn’t share a majority of your interests in the first place?”
    LOL Interests change though Tarn. That paradigm is a little limiting for most people in the long haul.
    Mike wouldn’t be attracted to a woman who had the sorts of hobbies he likes most (other than the unmentionables…).
    They’d be pretty tough and unfeminine-looking women! I think the fact we have his and hers hobbies kind of makes things work better for us. We each have our own “thing” going. Of course we do some things together…take walks, talk, we share the same interest in music (now having different opinions on THAT would suck, I can’t imagine what life would be like if he was in to rap music). It’s kind of fun hearing his anecdotes too.

    Yesterday he was at the gun range taking an all-day rifle course. There were a lot of people in the class, including one guy who kind of looked like an inner city “Julio” type (hispanic-looking thug). He had an AK-47. So they were all lined up and shooting at the targets in front of them when this guy gets a shell down his back (I’ve had this happen to me…I think most people have if they shoot regularly at all, yeah it burns because the shells are hot but it’s not like someone is holding a lit match to your privates or something).
    He proceeds to start running straight forward screaming with his weapon right into the direction everyone is firing. They stop and he is still screaming for a good two minutes until the instructor awkwardly walked over and took the shell out of his shirt.

    So to work this into an answer to Horseman, I’d say it’s individual to the person. You could pretty much make a similar list about people in general. How valuable is any one person to another?
    If people are all fungible and it comes down to material resources the person with the fattest wallet “wins” and is the most valuable. If it comes down to just certain activities, I guess the person who performs those activities “best” is the most valuable.

    I think there is great value to things that can’t be bought…I actually think those things are the most valuable (loyalty, trust, mutual interdependence forged from a life spent together, shared memories, shared values, positive “energy” and so forth). The richest people don’t seem to have a lot of any of those things, for all their millions so their millions don’t bring them happiness so their millions aren’t worth much in my estimation. I guess it’s better to be rich and miserable than poor and miserable but that’s about it.

    Now, how many 40+ year old women bring those untangibles above? Not a whole hell of a lot of them. But I’m just sayin’ if we’re talking hypothetical value that’s my answer and you did mention “intrinsic value” and those things are all intrinsic. Even shared memories have value (if you think about it in a certain way all we are is memories…a happy life is a collection of happy moments)

    If it just comes down to sex and cleaning, well whores can be easily bought and so can cleaning ladies.
    Okay, maybe the above isn’t red pill? I don’t know, I’m just posting my observations/belief system.
    I think you talked about dogs in the RPG…well, hell, people get very attached to animals. Some people are attached to them because they are good at their job (say, a good hunting dog), but really for most people (who love animals anyway) it’s a combination of things. The dog makes them happy and shows them loyalty and love. Hypothetically, if I had a dog like White Fang, or Buck in Call of the Wild (rather than my little rat dogs I honestly won’t miss much) I wouldn’t trade that dog for any price. And it wouldn’t be because I could make money breeding them and I sure wouldn’t abandon them because they reached an age where they had less immediate and obvious utility…because, hey, their fighting days are over. I’d just sit next to the fire with them on a cold night and appreciate them for their years of service and loyalty.

    Liked by 5 people

  59. Sumo says:

    Well, if the Mighty Sumo has met men whom he finds better looking with an aged body/face, who am I to judge? *wink*

    Okay, I walked into that one. Well done.

    Twas only speaking for myself…

    As was I. The only visible differences between The Mighty Sumo at 25 and the The Mighty Sumo at (almost) 41 are that my hair is longer, and I lost about 30 lbs. I’m still a sexy biatch. 😉

    Liked by 5 people

  60. Liz says:

    Guess more succinctly I could say if someone makes you happy, how much is that happiness worth to you? I think happiness is worth a great deal to most people. It’s pretty key to quality of life.
    But if they make you miserable, they have negative value to you.

    Liked by 3 people

  61. Liz says:

    “As was I. The only visible differences between The Mighty Sumo at 25 and the The Mighty Sumo at (almost) 41 are that my hair is longer, and I lost about 30 lbs. I’m still a sexy biatch.😉

    That’s because you’re Asian, Sumo. 😛

    Liked by 2 people

  62. Liz says:

    GAH! That emoticon never ceases to unsettle me. Even when I know it’s coming.

    Liked by 1 person

  63. Sumo says:

    No, it’s because of my inherent awesomeness.

    Liked by 3 people

  64. Liz says:

    Heard this one today:

    It’s hard to explain puns to kleptomaniacs because they always take things literally.

    Liked by 4 people

  65. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    I have resorted to using *illy face*.

    Liked by 2 people

  66. Liz says:

    “I have resorted to using *illy face*.

    I like it!

    Liked by 1 person

  67. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Sorry, *silly face*

    Liked by 2 people

  68. Liz says:

    I mentioned about dogs above. I have another anecdote from just this morning (being blabesque moi). I just found out last night that friends in the neighborhood lost their dog recently. I hadn’t seen it and I asked, and it turns out it was hit by a car.
    I just told our oldest son this this morning. The conversation went something like this:
    Me: I just found out Remy was hit by a car! Isn’t that awful?
    Him: uh, huh.
    Me: That was a great dog, they used to take him hunting…imagine seeing your dog dead in the street after being hit by a car.
    Him: Uh, huh. (bites carrot and walks away)

    I swear that kid is so INTJ sometimes he reminds me of Doctor House. And he’s the one who takes care of the dogs and sleeps with them! He liked Remy, too.
    Honestly…that’s EXACTLY how I was at that age.
    Genetics are weird.

    Liked by 2 people

  69. Liz says:

    I liked illy too because the tongue emoticon looks ill now. @:-P

    Liked by 2 people

  70. BuenaVista says:

    What’s interesting about this “poll” is that it’s a push poll: it produces answers that reflect female bias, and simply outlines male failure to meet female expectations and entitlements.

    For what the poll suggests is that in fact, the only reasons to be together are those that women value more highly: conformity with her opinions (within the relationship, her ideas about family and faith), conformity with her appearance (race, education level), and conformity with her desire to be funded (blowout landslide differences on the importance of superior male income).

    What the poll asks, in other words, is do men conform with women on female marital requirements? The poll doesn’t even *ask* questions that do not reflect the female imperative. This means that male marital priorities are illegitimate, in the eyes of Pew.

    This checks out. Man UP! now, man-boys.

    Liked by 2 people

  71. BuenaVista says:

    “Companionship & Fun Stuff…Why on earth would you be with someone who doesn’t share a majority of your interests in the first place?”

    Oddly, men and women aren’t the same in the real world, and each bring unique virtues and disadvantages. Our androgynous utopia is not quite upon us, sadly.

    That’s probably too long and abstract an explanation. TL;DR: men are not defective girls.

    Liked by 2 people

  72. Tarnished says:

    Okay, I walked into that one. Well done.

    Thank you, thank you.

    As was I.

    Just to clarify, I didn’t mean that I am better looking now at 32 than I was at 25 (though people still think I’m a 4th year college student, so maybe I look the same? Idk.) I was saying that I’ve never seen anyone, either man or woman, who looks significantly better as they age. Some can age gracefully or well…but Sean Connery at 30 is not Sean Connery now, and neither is George Clooney or Harrison Ford. Even my love is not immune, as I’ve seen pictures of him when he was in his late 20s. Of course, my love for him colors my perception, so I still think he’s amazing and beautiful. *wink*

    The only visible differences between The Mighty Sumo at 25 and the The Mighty Sumo at (almost) 41 are that my hair is longer, and I lost about 30 lbs. I’m still a sexy biatch.

    I’ve no doubt that your claims of still being full of sexy awesomeness are true, Sumo. But how much better would you have looked with the 30 lbs missing at 25? Or would there have been literally 0 points of more sexiness surrounding your person?

    Like

  73. Liz says:

    “Hypothetically, if I had a dog like White Fang, or Buck in Call of the Wild…

    Just modifying my comment about dogs above, I probably should have used a girl dog example (but, few cool girl dogs came to mind at the time). Say, Lassie….or a different animal like er, Flipper.

    Liked by 1 person

  74. Tarnished says:

    What the poll asks, in other words, is do men conform with women on female marital requirements? The poll doesn’t even *ask* questions that do not reflect the female imperative. This means that male marital priorities are illegitimate, in the eyes of Pew.

    I noticed that, too. Couldn’t find a corresponding male priority graph at 3am, but am going to check sources other than Pew today.

    Liked by 1 person

  75. Tarnished says:

    It’s hard to explain puns to kleptomaniacs because they always take things literally.

    Ha! Love it, Liz.

    Guess more succinctly I could say if someone makes you happy, how much is that happiness worth to you? I think happiness is worth a great deal to most people. It’s pretty key to quality of life.
    But if they make you miserable, they have negative value to you.

    Agree wholeheartedly.

    Oddly, men and women aren’t the same in the real world, and each bring unique virtues and disadvantages.

    Truth.

    Our androgynous utopia is not quite upon us, sadly.

    Something like that would never be a utopia anyway.

    Liked by 3 people

  76. Horseman says:

    Wonderful conversation. wow!! Original question was the reality for these divorcees. What does a 40 bring to a new relationship to any man. i.e. life gonna smack them in tnhe chops.

    Liked by 3 people

  77. Horseman says:

    Its sad. I see it coming over and over. kids leave, she starts dressinhg up. hub gets kicked. fast forward a year i have a depressed miserable slacking nurse on my hands cause reality kicked her. I asked once in the lunchroom to a new 40+ divorcee “so why would a new guy want to date you let alone marry you?” My boss said go apologize. I said fire me for asking a question. She backed down. To this day I have never had a good answer. Seems its self evident. There isn’t one.

    Liked by 3 people

  78. Liz says:

    To tell you the truth, I’ll love to be compared to a good, loyal dog. LOL!
    (although, I would hope my son would be a little more choked up at my passing)

    Liked by 2 people

  79. Horseman says:

    Liz.

    My best female love is a 2000 Belgian mare. Even before the Mrs and my woods dog.

    Liked by 4 people

  80. BuenaVista says:

    I’ve always scratched my head at the “women over 40 are worthless” trope common to the ‘sphere. I think it’s because I don’t view the age number to be the dependent variable in the analysis; it’s usually predictive or at least informational, but it’s not determinative. I say this as a guy who, in the past three months, has dated women between 23 and 50. So I don’t think I’m just rationalizing the ravages of time and the SMP on a ‘mature man.’

    If I have a significant beef with older women, it’s that they don’t *realize* that they’re older, and should develop qualities and skills that younger women can skate on, owing to their bubbly bubblyness and low-mileage freshness. Most older women are surrounded by the forcibly retired (i.e., women whose looks, intellectual development, financial self-management are, uh, sub-optimal). These are the rote subscribers to feminist b.s. about all women being “amazing” and it’s just the man-boy men who don’t have the maturity to appreciate them in all their amazing entitled amazingness. And when an older woman is frustrated by something with a man, she runs to her girlfriends, and then we have a talking-point festival of anger, abuse and resentment. And … next.

    [This is why every divorced woman’s discussion of her divorce decision is the same. We know they’re lying because magically they were all abused, by a man with a substance abuse or personality disorder, who was shaky at work, lied about a porn addiction and scared the children with his remote, imperious airs. So, For a textbook summary of the form, read the crap “Sue” over at Bloom’s blog — and watch the females pour out their sympathy and respect for her “bravery.”]

    The easiest measurement, and most obvious, measure of female value, of course, is her sexual appeal and attractiveness. Well. I was married to a Vogue model in my 20’s. But I have never been rocked like I have been rocked by four women in their 40’s. Three of them were mothers, and the fourth has a front porch that 19 year-olds would die for (or pay big money for). None of them bothered with plastic surgery, but they do know how to care for and nurture a man in his differences. The common threads with each were a lifelong commitment to eating well, staying fit, and — mirabile dictu! — actually being interested in male sexuality and practices.

    So I think the over-40-means-used-up thing, often, is a reflection of PUA notch-counting: competitive scoring of pick-up acumen. YMMV. I have found it more useful to learn how not to score chicks than the reverse.

    Liked by 4 people

  81. Tarnished says:

    LOL Interests change though Tarn. That paradigm is a little limiting for most people in the long haul.

    I think this can be true for some people. But I can honestly say that my interests only change by being added onto. There’s nothing I have gotten rid of, only expanded upon. I’ll accept that this may be uncommon though.

    Mike wouldn’t be attracted to a woman who had the sorts of hobbies he likes most (other than the unmentionables…).
    They’d be pretty tough and unfeminine-looking women!

    Fair. Guess I was thinking about it from a more civilian perspective. Like how couples can share things like mountain climbing, going to the shooting range, camping, videogames, sword collecting, photography, working on cars, etc.

    I think the fact we have his and hers hobbies kind of makes things work better for us. We each have our own “thing” going.

    Yeah, you can’t do everything together. Honestly, even the most loving couple would go crazy without some time apart doing their own hobbies. Like how I enjoy volunteering at the SPCA which he’d get bored of after half an hour. Likewise, he enjoys going to local baseball, hockey, and women’s basketball games whereas I’m like “umm…yay, sportsball!”

    But we share more interests and hobbies than not, so that’s what I was thinking of. It’s cool that others have even more variation, like you and Mike. 🙂

    Of course we do some things together…take walks, talk, we share the same interest in music (now having different opinions on THAT would suck, I can’t imagine what life would be like if he was in to rap music).

    Maybe he’d be able to help you write Pimpin’ Ma Hoes. *wink*

    It’s kind of fun hearing his anecdotes too.

    Agree. Hearing about each others day and appreciating your differences is usually pretty fun. Gives you a look into something you’d normally never care about too.

    Liked by 2 people

  82. BuenaVista says:

    I would say the most popular delusions of the over-40 dreary drudge single woman, an example of which Horseman describes are:

    a. “My magical vagina is the key to your happiness. I just know you’ll do anything for a peek.”

    b. “Real men put a ring on it. A bigger ring, incidentally, than my sister or my girlfriends are sporting! Also, I need a new SUV.”

    c. “My journey of capricious self-indulgence deserves your thoughtful admiration, and if you were more evolved you would agree with me.”

    d. “Fat Liberation: a cause that any thoughtful man understands.”

    Madame Librarian — she who thinks it makes her more attractive to text me such witticisms as “You better be on your best behavior, big boy, I don’t want to wake up and realize you ravished me without my knowledge, hee-hee” recently invited me to dessert. (She doesn’t drink, we’re in the country, there aren’t a lot of venues or activities.) I was pumped up and replied, “Sure, what are you baking?” She replied, “What!??! No, I’m not baking anything, and you are not coming to my house!!!”

    So her idea of asking me out is to imply, passive-aggressively, that I take her out for a restaurant slice of pie, on her terms, at my expense. When I declined, she wrote,

    “Did I strike a nerve? Fly off the handle did you?” (This is the rote “men are such babies” talking point. Because it’s so strategic to shame men who don’t do what they’re told.)

    In mass media advertising, all men are helpless, horny doofuses. That’s because middle-aged women control household budgets, and that’s what they really think.

    Liked by 3 people

  83. Tarnished says:

    so why would a new guy want to date you let alone marry you?

    I wonder if the responses you’d get from the nurses would be different if she was a 40 yr old never married VS a 40 yr old divorcee? Has that ever happened? Were I a man she had her sights on, I’d consider the whole “getting divorced then immediately jumping into the dating pool” to be a huge red flag.

    To this day I have never had a good answer. Seems its self evident. There isn’t one.

    I think because it truly is just so individualistic. If you’re a man actively looking for a woman and you’re a woman actively looking for a man, then you meet each other and click…well. That’s the answer. You found someone that is your complement. Someone who adds to your life just like you add to theirs.

    Not everyone wants or needs a SO though, so that might make it difficult to understand on some level.

    Liked by 1 person

  84. Liz says:

    “Maybe he’d be able to help you write Pimpin’ Ma Hoes. *wink*

    Haha! Pimpin’ is mine all mine!

    Liked by 2 people

  85. Tarnished says:

    In mass media advertising, all men are helpless, horny doofuses. That’s because middle-aged women control household budgets, and that’s what they really think.

    Which should be seen as immediately untrue for the majority, if only they’d remove the blinders.

    invited me to dessert…So her idea of asking me out is to imply, passive-aggressively, that I take her out for a restaurant slice of pie, on her terms, at my expense.

    I thought the commonly agreed upon thing to do, when extending an invitation, is that the inviter pays for/offers to pay for the invitee. Or did that change “because vagina”?

    Liked by 2 people

  86. Tarnished says:

    That’s pretty damn amazing, Liz. I bet you’re really proud of Mike. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  87. Liz says:

    THat librarian sounds like a really stupid crack, BV.
    That sucks.
    😦

    Like

  88. Liz says:

    Thanks Tarn, squee wee yes! 😀

    Liked by 2 people

  89. Liz says:

    Guess I didn’t finish my thought there was a point to the above that I missed with my blab brag …I WISH that Mike would write a book about aviation. Because I (being a chick) like money, and it seems to sell well (see pogue) but there’s no way. Ah well. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  90. Tarnished says:

    That’s the way, Liz! 👍❤

    (Though obviously you’ve known that for a long time.)

    Liked by 2 people

  91. Liz says:

    Now that I think about it, Tarn…could you delete that whole thing above about the speaker? I’m thinking it wasn’t prudent (TMI)

    Liked by 1 person

  92. Liz says:

    The whole post I mean

    Liked by 1 person

  93. Tarnished says:

    Is that good, Liz?

    Liked by 1 person

  94. BuenaVista says:

    She’s a smart, tall, slender and lonely woman with a lovely daughter. But her behavior socially, with me, is mainstream. I used to pay attention to these prompts — almost all women practice a form of the “hey, call me and take me out” protocol. Five years ago I started to see the disconnect between women asserting their post-feminist agency, and their default position socially (“hey, why aren’t you calling me and taking me out?”).

    So, “really stupid crack” is, for me, unhelpful. Because maybe 1 out of 20 women give as well as they get, and the others just flip-flop between feminist “independence” and Victorian dependent/victim — depending on their self-interest in the moment. But you have to be red pill to see it.

    In a fascinating irony, one of the reasons she likes me is I remind her of her brother. She admires him very much, as she did/does her deceased father. He’s totally MGTOW: divorced, runs a 4,000 acre row-cropping operation, is stridently anti-marriage and outspoken about not letting any women into his life and balance sheet again. Not that either of them know what “red pill” is. Despite all of this, it’s inconceivable to her that she modify her behavior to reflect attributes that would make her more attractive to a man like her brother. She simultaneously loves and is loyal to her brother, while she in fact obeys precisely a predictable university woman feminist catechism.

    This is why all divorced women present themselves as victims, in almost identical fashion. This redeems them with the girls and white knights. Otherwise someone might say, “What you say is not what you do”. Personal responsibility, or even mutual relationship failure, does not fit the feminist narrative. A vulgar man might note, “Baby you can’t see the bush for the trees.”

    Liked by 3 people

  95. BuenaVista says:

    Agreed, Liz. I think I could dox you with a single google query based on that description.

    Liked by 2 people

  96. Liz says:

    YES! Thanks Tarn, you rock. 😀

    – Liz, il imbecile incorrigible, out
    🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  97. Tarnished says:

    I used to pay attention to these prompts — almost all women practice a form of the “hey, call me and take me out” protocol. Five years ago I started to see the disconnect between women asserting their post-feminist agency, and their default position socially (“hey, why aren’t you calling me and taking me out?”).

    One might even be tempted to say that type of behavior is hypocritical…

    Liked by 2 people

  98. BuenaVista says:

    Speaking of dogs, a farmer I hang out with has the best-tempered *and* intelligent dog I’ve ever met. Half-lab, half-border collie. I want to steal her. This is a dog I can picture in my truck, neck craned around the side of the cab, or wandering into the saloon with me at midnight for a quick pop on the way home. Usually dogs drive me nuts because they need so much attention. This one just walks up, rolls over on her back so I can scratch her tummy, and then sits quietly aside until it’s time to go someplace. Not terribly unlike how my ex-wife used to greet me after a long day.

    Liked by 4 people

  99. Tarnished says:

    I fostered 2 rescue greyhounds who had that temperament, BV. They were such loving, docile couch potatoes. We found them a very good family that agreed to keep them together.

    Heh. Speaking of creatures that have “outlived their usefulness”… *wink*

    Liked by 1 person

  100. Tarnished says:

    Now this is something else…Apparently it takes a very long time to find someone to connect with.

    https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/why-arent-you-married.jpeg?quality=75&strip=color&w=550

    Liked by 1 person

  101. Yoda says:


    Connecticut could soon become the fourth state to adopt an affirmative consent or “yes means yes” policy for sexual conduct at its colleges and universities.

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/connecticut-could-become-next-state-to-adopt-affirmative-consent/article/2589958

    Liked by 1 person

  102. Horseman says:

    Tarn. I see no difference regardless of never married, divorced, etc. Reason doesn’t matter. The women just don’t see what to bring. Well..because…vaigina.

    BV. Just picked 40 as a number. The idea is that besides sex appeal which lasts only as long as either youth or the rare older woman like the Librarian and babies what is there? So a woman single post babies or children in tow and lower sex appeal thru age, obesity or just bitchface there must be something more to attract a NEW man.

    Older relationships have the advantage of mate goggles, shared history, etc. that adds resistance to the loss of those other factors.

    I just wonder about looking at an older age. I mean a fifty year old has at least twenty more yeards to go. I can’t imagine the soul crush of realizing what you want (a mate) is virtually unobtainable (I bring only an old vagina to the mix). Even then they do not see maybe I need to self improve but instead fall into the miserasble martyr.

    We are entering a new era. First feminist raised Late 30s career girls finding no marriage and ten years after EPL finding no new life. A whole demographic are entering that last two decades with no real hope. Its gonna get ugly.

    Liked by 2 people

  103. Horseman says:

    Much of MGTOW and the sphere is about male self improvement. Monk mode. Introspection, self actualization. Basically find something worth while to expend your energy on either a mate or most often other things. Typical male. Look, solve, do. Bicycles turning into bad ass Harley choppers.

    All of feminism is wholely mating focused. Even the career girls are to find a better hunky millionaire. It tends to be martyr based, someone improve the world FOR me, not improve ME.
    Fish turning into…..other kinds of fish looking for the mythical bicycle fish.

    Men can (easily) go MGTOW. as in no need for women. ever.
    I dont think women can go WGTOW. they might have no acces to men but not NEED\WANT men? I give it one ovulation cycle.

    So question two
    Can women ever truly go WGTOW? (forget why. could they?)

    Liked by 2 people

  104. Tarnished says:

    Horseman,

    I see no difference regardless of never married, divorced, etc. Reason doesn’t matter. The women just don’t see what to bring. Well.
    ..because…vagina.

    The only difference I’d conceivably see is that a recently divorced older woman would probably have become so comfortable in the relative “safety” of her marriage that she has not seen any need to work on her personality or keep herself in decent/good shape. On the other hand, a woman who has never been married seems like she’d hypothetically be more likely to have taken care of herself precisely because she is out in the public/career sphere supporting herself and making impressions.

    Liked by 2 people

  105. BuenaVista says:

    Women don’t have any inkling of or desire to confront the legal, financial, and emotional conditions imposed on men since 1970. That’s why even “red pill” women prattle on about how “hey, I was victimized in marriage and divorce too” and recite the pull-string robot talking points about they terminated their families because … magically, for the same five reasons as every other woman.

    Or they emote nonstop about how the world should not be the way the world is. (That is, positing that rain should not be wet.)

    Or they applaud themselves for “studying” the red pill, while bravely defending Team Woman, lest the current regime be weakened. Real world examples from a “red pill blog”:

    a. The Woman Who Slyly Beats the MGTOWs at their own game:

    “It’s been hard at times to sit through some of their more harsh opinions, but instead of getting angry, I use it to my advantage. I don’t know if they realize how many women are keeping up with their mindset, but there’s definitely good use for women to at least read their stuff.”

    [I am the double agent to the clueless Red Pill angry haters. Hee-hee.]

    b. The Woman Who Studies That Which Should Be Reviled:

    “I’d also add that, some Red Pill guys will NEVER be on the same page with the vast majority of women (of any type), and that’s just the way it is. In my opinion, it’s fair (and probably wise) for most of us to distance ourselves from such men.”

    [Red Pill is ThoughtCrime.]

    Or their male enablers sympathize with the poor dears who just can’t help themselves:

    “More thought needs to be given to how a woman can be Red Pill, without either 1) pushing for some tradcon marriage or commitment that TRP opposes, or 2) simply becoming plates for red pill men.”

    [Newsflash: men, red pill or not, are not responsible for female behavior, the inability of women to own their own behavior, or the distaste women have for manifesting their proud empowerment when it comes to SMP behavior. They might, you know, like, ummm, stop pursuing casual relations. If women dislike their sex-positive ideology, and destroys their appeal as a LTR, which elicits cheers and hosannahs from their TheFrisky.com brethren, they might consider changing their ideology.]

    Red Pill is a reactive sympton, not a cause, IOW. It is entirely defensive in its origin.

    The qualities that would make a woman an attractive LTR are trivial to adopt and practice. They don’t wish to do either. They aren’t going to. Rain is wet and will be for the duration.

    I say this as a Sensitive, Evolved Man who is in touch with his feelings …

    … grateful to Gaia for returning us the longer, warmer days that make life delightful:

    Liked by 1 person

  106. Ame says:

    Horseman –

    i find all of this very interesting. there was a time before i married my now-husband that i thought of this stuff a little bit more b/c i was on the fringes of a group of women similar to what you describe. i never quite ‘got’ them. they were miserable, married to highly successful men, had every *thing* they could have wanted, and were bored out of their minds. drowning in their wine and misery and comparing, literally, boob jobs.

    it was an odd set of circumstances that i was even exposed to that group b/c most of my life since children has been buried in the bubble of caring for aspie girl without letting her sister get lost – truly a 24/7 job, one for which i’ve been extremely grateful – but it left me little to no free time.

    the only real ‘balance’ of info i have concerning my first marriage is my now-husband with whom i have tried to be brutally honest. he is not shy to tell me the truth, regardless of whether or not i want to hear it. and he’s of the mind that i can fly right in our marriage or fly out.

    why did he choose to take a chance on me, a 40 something woman with two kids, one with very dependent special needs, is beyond me … except that there was that something that clicked. that intrinsic something that made us both want more of it. i was attracted to his, “This is how it is, this is how i am, take it or leave it; idc.” he will tell you that while he is definitely attracted to my physical beauty, he is equally, if not more so, attracted to my heart and soul, my inner beauty. i’ve brought something, some intangible peace and beauty, that he finds desirable.

    Liked by 2 people

  107. Ame says:

    Horseman –
    “Men can (easily) go MGTOW. as in no need for women. ever.
    I dont think women can go WGTOW. they might have no acces to men but not NEED\WANT men? I give it one ovulation cycle.

    So question two
    Can women ever truly go WGTOW? (forget why. could they?)”
    =======

    no. i do not think women could ever truly go wgtow.

    Liked by 1 person

  108. BuenaVista says:

    I know one WGTOW woman — but she is what she is because she’s a very high-income earner who lost her home, money and children to a house-husband in their divorce. (That is, she was treated like a man.) She had a brief flirtation with an MGTOW, who is of similar SMP and MMP value, but now dates down (way down: he’s a felon on the lam) and at arms length (he lives out of state and she flies him in) because “I am not going to lose control of my life and money ever again, just because some man can play the victim card in court.”

    IOW, she got hammered like a man in divorce, and suddenly understands that the legal system will stripmine her financially, and drive a D-9 Cat over her heart, again if she permits it.

    It’s simply fatuous to think women will go WGTOW or even articulate a reasoned understanding of MGTOW when they are celebrated culturally and elevated legally and financially for destroying their families. What we see with so-called red pill women is an advanced, and extremely tedious, form of self-aggrandizing, morally narcissistic, virtue signalling.

    In the end, if you’re a woman, and you haven’t rebuilt your life in middle age for no reason, and you haven’t been threatened with jail, and you don’t sleep for more than a few hours at a time, for years on end, because you dream of your children, your red pill sympathizing is just so much unearned condescension.

    Liked by 2 people

  109. Tarnished says:

    Men can (easily) go MGTOW. As in no need for women. Ever.
    Can women ever truly go WGTOW?

    How extreme are we talking here?

    If you mean something like “no need for anyone…live alone in the wilderness …hermit/mountain dweller”, there are few men willing and able to do so, and even fewer women. So if this is the type of Going Your Own Way you are referring to I don’t think WGTOW is any more likely than winning 2 state lotteries.

    But if you mean a Level 1 or 2 version of WGTOW, I think it’s certainly possible.

    …there must be something more to attract a NEW man.

    Complementary personality. Connection. Love. Emotional and mental support. Intimacy (besides base sexual penetration of a vagina). Having someone there to smile and greet you at the end of the day with your favorite drink and a shoulder massage. Someone to share a morning in bed with, just touching each other and giving reassurance. Getting home and seeing that they had to go out, but took time to make dinner for you anyway. The ability to vent to someone about your day. Them surprising you at home with a wonderfully drawn, relaxing bath after a cold winter day. Being given a Honey-Did list (something I made up where I’ll write down all the things, big or small, that I know my cherished one accomplished that month, to help combat his depression). Being held by someone who doesn’t question your masculinity or tell you to “get over it” when you cry. Having sex with someone who knows all your favorite places to be touched. Waking up next to someone and watching the sun light their face and just experiencing the love chemicals flowing in your mind. Having a person who’s priority is you and your happiness/contentment.

    These are things that my FwB has told me he appreciates I do for him. We are never going to be married, and we don’t get to see each other more than 1-3 times a week, but we talk almost every day and I try very hard to make his life better for having me in it. It’s the least I can do after how he took the time to help me. Maybe it’s not a “real” relationship according to some people, but it still contains many aspects of one.

    So take from it what you wish. Tarn out for now.

    Liked by 3 people

  110. Ame says:

    Tarn – that’s beautiful 🙂

    esp love the “honey did list”

    Liked by 2 people

  111. BuenaVista says:

    And Tarn, in a part-time fuckbuddy (her term not mine) temporary relationship, proves my thesis that no woman will address the exogenous conditions of the post-1970 SMP/MMP. But instead will say, “Come back, I’ll be nice this time.” QED.

    We’ll set aside whether or not any discussion of male-female LTRs is informed by someone in a part-time fuckbuddy temporary relationship. I’ve never been in one, and, not being a utopian blowhard, will restrict my comments to things I actually understand.

    There’s a male withdrawal from traditional state marriage because of exogenous conditions (duh, the law and its enforcement) — not because men aren’t getting enough bubble baths and bon bons and cute honey did lists and an extra brownie in the lunchbox. There’s a male disavowal of marriage as enough men discover that they love someone who married them for money and security or because all their girlfriends were doing it — and the law will protect the woman in that scenario, not the man who receives a starfish-derived orgasm once a month.

    The internet is precipitating this collapse in male ignorance. Men don’t tell each other they don’t get laid and their wives’ are sullen remote creatures with a divorce court suicide vest and a dead-trigger in their hand. Online guys are figuring it out.

    Newsflash: any attractive man is buried in small favors until the woman decides it’s time to lock him up. Or he reveals his secrets and forfeits his strength. That’s irrelevant to the broad social rejection of State Marriage. But women love the current legal framework, and therefore it won’t be changed.

    Rain is wet, MGTOW is just a poncho.

    Liked by 1 person

  112. Horseman says:

    Tarn

    I just mean the female equivalent of several guys at work, some divorced, some never married. They work, manage staff, then play ball, watch tv, one pursueing a degree in philosophy for the hell of it, me playing with ponies. Washing, cooking, keeping immaculate houses that are a eight room man cave. Basically being poroductive, well adjusted citizens but with nary a female in sight. oh and a happier group is rare to see.

    So could women work, play, vote, study….just be…without thinking about men?

    p.s. interestingly just for shits and giggles I often ask if anyone is seeing anyone, or just feminism or females in general. I get a meh and the subject drifts immediately to sports, Trump, Trudeau or cars. These guys really dont think about women. Oh they look at ass walking in the room but then its back to sports.

    And these are xray techs, managers, inspectors. Most in great shape even into late fifties cause sports are their thing now and all making 60+. A single mom’s wet dream and a feminist nightmare. Natural alphas and classic providers who give shit not about females.

    Liked by 2 people

  113. Horseman says:

    BV

    Mgtow is more than a poncho. It is becoming a natural state.
    These guys are not actively avoiding women or acting out of fear. Women, other than occassional porn literally never cross their minds.

    When was the last time you thought of your furnace filter? oh once a year or in passing thru or doing a checkup but day to day not so much. Same thing.

    That this exists in well adjusted, well educated professionals….for society scare as hell.

    Liked by 2 people

  114. Horseman says:

    in reply to RPGs article on women in the sphere

    To answer the original post question for the average woman

    “What Sweetie?
    Yes, I see you have a vagina.

    I’m sure its very special.

    But so does literally half the planet.

    Now go over there and listen quietly, the men are talking.

    If you have something relevent to say of course I will listen to you.

    Now run along.”

    Like

  115. Horseman says:

    Tarn at 6:28

    Lyrics of Into The West

    “Lay down your sweet and weary head, night is falling you have come to journey’s end…

    Soon you will see all of your fears will pass away
    Safe in my arms you’re only sleeping….”

    For most of my life that is all I ever wanted. Just ONE single night of THAT to remember and draw strength from.

    For men IT DOES NOT EXIST.
    Never has.
    Never will.

    Realize it. internalize it. Use it.

    As Rollo once said.
    “Once you leave your mother’s breast no one will ever, truely, give a fuck about you just for you. Don’t let that cripple you, don’t let it make you a slave.”

    Forget feminism, mgtow, mra, the sphere.
    That quote ( from memory) is the truth of men. As much as the ladies want to or not, they are incapable of loving UNSELFISHLY the way they do their child, to love a man.

    Liked by 2 people

  116. Horseman says:

    Not to detract from Tarn, what she is doing is amazing but unicorn rare. It is the exception that proves Rollos rule.

    Liked by 2 people

  117. Tarnished says:

    in a part-time fuckbuddy (her term not mine)

    I will literally mail you $20 to an address of your choice if you can show me a comment where I referred to the man I cherish as crassly as a “part-time fuckbuddy”. He is not this. We are longtime friends who sometimes have sex. Not people who only stay the 30 minutes required for a booty call and don’t interact otherwise.

    temporary relationship

    It is only as temporary as he wishes it to be. So far it has been slightly over 10 years, and he has yet to tell me he no longer wants my company. *shrug* Maybe this will be the year he drops me? I certainly do not have the ability to tell the future.

    There’s a male withdrawal from traditional state marriage because of exogenous conditions (duh, the law and its enforcement)…There’s a male disavowal of marriage as enough men discover that they love someone who married them for money and security or because all their girlfriends were doing it — and the law will protect the woman in that scenario

    Exactly. Why do you think I’m anti-marriage and pro-MGTOW? For the exact reasons you state here. Marriage is not and cannot be good for men until the law changes. I don’t see that happening soon, unfortunately, so men should avoid placing their heads on the chopping block, hoping their wife/girlfriend won’t drop the axe.

    But women love the current legal framework, and therefore it won’t be changed.

    I guess that is why I give money to local groups that help men specifically, and try to get as many young men as I can to see MGTOW as a viable option.

    These guys really don’t think about women. Oh they look at ass walking in the room but then its back to sports.

    Ok. This is hardly weird. You check out the attractive person, then go back to what you were doing.

    So could women work, play, vote, study….just be…without thinking about men?

    Yeah. Why would I be thinking about random men while studying for a history exam, or taking a walk, or grocery shopping, or playing a videogame? Sure, sometimes I’ll see a food that I know my guy enjoys and I’ll put it in my basket or I will use some of my hiking time to plan a nice thing for one of my friends, but I’m also going to be thinking about anything from what I read in the newspaper that morning to reevaluating my religious beliefs. If the only thing you’re capable of thinking about is the opposite sex, I believe that’d be called obsession.

    Liked by 2 people

  118. BuenaVista says:

    “Mgtow is more than a poncho. It is becoming a natural state.
    These guys are not actively avoiding women or acting out of fear.”

    Thank you for the education. I feel much better now.

    My comment addressed, however, the idea that MGTOW was a response to an environmental constant. Not a response to women not supplying enough bon-bons and bubble baths.

    Like

  119. BuenaVista says:

    Thanks, Tarn. I light campfires and cigars with $20 bills. That’s because I’m retired. I used to use $100 bills. Carry on.

    Like

  120. Tarnished says:

    Not to detract from Tarn, what she is doing is amazing but unicorn rare. It is the exception that proves Rollos rule.

    Horseman,

    Please don’t think I’m saying this harshly, because I’m not:

    Please don’t say that what I’m doing or how I act and love is amazing. I don’t want a cookie for being a good person. Please.

    For most of my life that is all I ever wanted. Just ONE single night of THAT to remember and draw strength from.

    You have my truest sympathies, Horseman.
    If I were to know you as I know my own, I’d give this to you in a heartbeat.

    Tarn out again for a while.

    Liked by 2 people

  121. Tarnished says:

    You’re very welcome, BV.

    Liked by 1 person

  122. Horseman says:

    Tarn agreed. could you not think about men EVER. like how you think about your transmission fluid. Its there. it has a purpose but its just not a part of your life.
    These guys in specific and mgtow in general are this way.

    BV no insult intended. Just clarifying my thought of impacts. You ideas of causality are bang on.

    Liked by 2 people

  123. Ame says:

    Horseman –
    is there a part of you that wishes your wife would have stayed away and you could join this group of men? just curious.

    Like

  124. BuenaVista says:

    Wow. Which “group of men” is that?

    Like

  125. Spawny Get says:

    ” just so much unearned condescension.”

    I think that condescension is a little harsh, I generally agree with what you say. I’d see it as more a near impossibility for the vast majority of women to understand the male situation. Someone (male) on YouTube was talking to a passing transfemale who said that life as a female was more pleasant. People were nicer, took their time with her etc. To the average feminist sympathising woman who thinks women are hard done by, or owed something by men, this would probably trigger an outburst. Feminism plays on all the worst aspects of female nature, just as blm plays on that minority’s.

    Liked by 2 people

  126. BuenaVista says:

    And what are the attributes of “this group of men”?

    It sounds like you have discovered an anthropological oddity. Tell us more, please.

    Like

  127. Spawny Get says:

    Ame,
    I’d suspect that that’s a question not worth asking of oneself until given sufficient reason to do so. For me, if I got to seriously consider that issue, deep down, my subconscious has probably already started packing my bags (or hers)

    Liked by 3 people

  128. Spawny Get says:

    Probably the checked out group of guys that Horseman described knowing. Ame isn’t having a dig. It’s a reasonable question.

    Liked by 3 people

  129. Ame says:

    Ton – the one he described here. perhaps i misread or misinterpreted?

    Horseman says:
    1 May, 2016 at 7:19 pm
    Tarn

    I just mean the female equivalent of several guys at work, some divorced, some never married. They work, manage staff, then play ball, watch tv, one pursueing a degree in philosophy for the hell of it, me playing with ponies. Washing, cooking, keeping immaculate houses that are a eight room man cave. Basically being poroductive, well adjusted citizens but with nary a female in sight. oh and a happier group is rare to see.

    Liked by 2 people

  130. Ame says:

    oops – BV, not Ton.

    Like

  131. Ame says:

    Spawny Get says:
    1 May, 2016 at 8:45 pm
    “Ame,
    I’d suspect that that’s a question not worth asking of oneself until given sufficient reason to do so. For me, if I got to seriously consider that issue, deep down, my subconscious has probably already started packing my bags (or hers)”

    =======

    Spawny – this is interesting b/c i see women wondering ‘what if’ a lot. what i’m presuming from what you’ve written is that men do not generally entertain that question?

    Liked by 1 person

  132. Horseman says:

    We are comfortable together and after almost 30 years there is a knowing that could never be replicated. (no one can ever remember me at 16 again) But equally is the realization that “unconditional love you for you” is a disney illusion. We each do our own thing. We do some things together. We run the house together. We will likely put each other in the home.

    Unlike most The Door is right there. Don’t say it or even imply it. To paraphrase the short green one “Leave or Leave Not, There is no I Might.”

    She could have left. I could have said No when she returned. Cost benefit we are more comfortable and better off together than the alternative. We care for each other. We do for each other. But we are NOT In Wuv. She wont die for me nor I for her. It is what it is.

    in younger days I wanted to be Jack Coulton or Tom Cody. Then The Husband. For those magic years I was Bestest Daddy ever. Later I wanted to be Nero or Morpheous. Now I just want to quietly be Horseman. and he happens to share a farm with Mrs Horseman.

    Liked by 2 people

  133. BuenaVista says:

    Horseman’s point, as I understood it, was not that they were a special class of men, but that they were just men. But, sure, let’s label them as bizarre outliers who resist the F.I.

    In any event, a cursory reading of Horseman’s remarks reveals that he is as red pill as the mgtows he describes. I guess he’s an “other” because he is not supplicating for bubble baths and bon bons and honey did lists.

    This is another blog going down, I see.

    Like

  134. Horseman says:

    men rarely what if. more What now or what should I do. Men plan, women wonder.

    Ame I know exactly what you meant. reasonable question answered above. The day I want to I just will.

    Liked by 3 people

  135. Horseman says:

    I am the proud outlier the married MGTOW.

    Those guys are just guys. They would think MGTOW is something in Dinner B at Peking Buffet.

    The fact thst they just “are” is the scary part for society. Free range, non political, unplugged, F.I. free guys. Who will never marry, reproduce, over consume and likely retire at 50. So goes the future in small town back of beyond Ontario. If its here NYC and D.C. are doomed.

    Liked by 2 people

  136. Tarnished says:

    Could you not think about men EVER. like how you think about your transmission fluid. Its there. It has a purpose but its just not a part of your life.

    That depends. Is thinking about someone who happens to be male the same as thinking about men?

    If my brother calls and asks me to pick him up from the airport…am I now thinking about men because I’m talking to one?
    When I’m playing Shadowrun with my 6 male friends every Friday night…would you consider that thinking about men since we’re sitting together discussing game strategies?
    Tomorrow when I’m in the warehouse I work at and the dudes and I are pulling stock to ship…is that the same as thinking about men because I’m moving boxes around with ’em?

    There are a huge amount of men in my daily life, when I consider my job, my social group, my SO, and my family. That’s not even including the fact that most game store customers are demographically male. So if basic interactions with males counts as “thinking”…I really don’t see any way I can’t. With that definition, it be easier for me to say I don’t think of women because we rarely interact.

    But if you’re asking if I’ll be hiking in the woods or cooking lunch or in an empty grocery aisle and just begin thinking of random, nebulous “Men” for no good reason? No. I don’t do that. It’d be weird, even for me.

    These guys in specific and mgtow in general are this way.

    I disagree with this statement about MGTOW in general. If one frequents sites, such as goingyourownway.com or mgtow.com, to name two…the bulk of the conversation is about women. Same with the majority of MGTOW youtubers and bloggers. There was one poster, long since gone, who used to write a lot about single man concepts. Simple meals for one, ways to keep in shape, how to budget well, RV and travel experiences. That was what I’d always thought more MGTOW sites would focus on.

    If the men you speak of have mastered this, then I applaud them wholeheartedly. Sounds like they are very much living for themselves and that is to be congratulated.

    Like

  137. Ame says:

    Horseman –

    that is such a raw, honest answer.

    there is something to be said about being around someone who knew you when, someone with whom you grew up together. i’m not sure i even realized the full value of that until my first husband died (we’d been divorced 8 years when he died). but there’s a loss … no one else was there when …

    another curious question.

    do your children know how things are with your wife? i would think it would be interesting how they might respond differently. for example, i was driving with my step son a few months ago when i hung up the phone w/his dad and said, “Oh, he can make me so mad sometimes! But I love that man just the way he is!” to which my SS replied, “That’s what I hope for someday … a woman who knows me, and even when she gets angry, she still loves me/accepts me.”

    but i could definitely hear some women (maybe many) saying, “Well, you just need to ‘train’ him better!”

    my SS has watched us closely. he knows neither his dad nor i are perfect. he knows we irritate the crud out of each other sometimes. he is seeing this new normal. what he knows is not normal is how we deal w/it … how we let things go, forgive each other quickly, accept each other, how i adapt to his dad, etc. his mom is very toxic, so he has had a comparison of women/wives/moms for the last seven years.

    i would think sons would respond differently than daughters? i would guess men would be more content with what you have but that women would want more … that they would want the fairy tale … the happily ever after … the dying together holding hands when 90.

    Liked by 3 people

  138. Tarnished says:

    I also think of human beings as people first, and their sex second…if at all.

    If I’m helping “James” put restock on shelves, I don’t focus on the fact he’s male. Obviously he is, but it’s just background noise to the fact he’s a person, like his red hair or arm freckles or nose piercing. Everything together makes up the person I know as James.

    Does that make sense?

    Liked by 1 person

  139. Spawny Get says:

    “Spawny – this is interesting b/c i see women wondering ‘what if’ a lot. what i’m presuming from what you’ve written is that men do not generally entertain that question?”

    I’d have worked out long ago what the likely scenarios were in rough terms…I’d just leave making the call till I had sufficient reason to make it. Until that time? I’d likely not spend much effort thinking more on it.

    Might just be my personality at my age. I have the perfect cap, it says DILLIGAF on it. Maybe it was the precursor to MGTOW?

    Liked by 3 people

  140. Tarnished says:

    but i could definitely hear some women (maybe many) saying, “Well, you just need to ‘train’ him better!”

    Ew. 😠

    Liked by 2 people

  141. Spawny Get says:

    “This is another blog going down, I see.”

    The blog goes where the post writers and commentators take it. I don’t have a plan. Personally I like the masculine stuff, I just don’t want to go around angry when angry doesn’t do anything for me. Meaning that the current atmosphere works for me even when the tone wanders from fuck-it-all-let-it-burn.

    I’ve things in real life that concern me but more generally I’m waiting to see where the morons driving society are taking us. I don’t have the wheel or the pedals. When the debt tsunami takes down our current fembots paradise? I’ll take the best option available to me, or made by me.

    If anyone wants to write a post, let me know. Farm Boy is driving the scheduling, let him know.

    I have no problem about being pissed off working for you. I enjoy your insights. I enjoy stories from people with different realities to my own.

    Liked by 1 person

  142. Spawny Get says:

    I don’t mean this guy
    http://swfanon.wikia.com/wiki/Leinad_Dilligaf

    Shortly before 2,280 BBY, Leinad Dilligaf was elected Supreme Chancellor of the Galactic Republic. Before or during his term, the Volta declared themselves independent from the Republic. He witnessed General Roger Auga’s outburst at a budget meeting. At the meeting he realized that the Republic was doomed to bankrupt itself unless drastic measures were taken. Utilizing his hatred for the Volta, Dilligaf formed a coalition whose goal was to eliminate the Volta and take their major export, Krayt dragon pearls.[3]

    Like

  143. BuenaVista says:

    lol. and Spawny goes peak “you’re so angry” while two women total 50% of content. have fun.

    Like

  144. Spawny Get says:

    That wasn’t the intended message.

    Liked by 1 person

  145. Sumo says:

    I’ve no doubt that your claims of still being full of sexy awesomeness are true, Sumo. But how much better would you have looked with the 30 lbs missing at 25?

    I probably would have looked much the same as I do now.

    Except with shorter hair.

    Liked by 1 person

  146. Spawny Get says:

    30 pounds of hair? Some kind of yeti, are you?

    Liked by 3 people

  147. Sumo says:

    What can I say? I’m inspired by Moe’s hirsute example.

    Liked by 3 people

  148. Farm Boy says:

    There is a new post

    Liked by 1 person

  149. Horseman says:

    Cheers.

    Liked by 1 person

  150. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    Already been an unwitting drug mule. The most I would do in extenuating circumstances is give her a twenty for her booze and cigs. Or a taxi, I suppose.

    Liked by 1 person

  151. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    This may be the last word in this thread about the forty year old woman. When I was on OkCupid, that was close to my demographic. I donm’t think that they are doing well because most of them are frivorcees. On top of that, you can’t tell the divorcees apart from the rivorcees because they will tell you all kinds of stories. Women wouldn’t divorce if there were no chance of remarriage. To this end, they have cut their own throats.

    Liked by 4 people

  152. Ame says:

    Fuzzie – “RIvorce?”

    Liked by 2 people

  153. CalloftheMGTOW says:

    I think that since people feel that we are embroiled in a battle with feminism and the SJW crowd, we have to push against them. I think the lynch pin in this negative thinking is simply us (Non SJW, non feminists) being the unpopular individualistic minority to a collectivist idiotic shit spewing majority.
    I will note that I am getting better at ignoring my base desires to please women and I have denied sex that was freely offered to me (They were freaking nuts). I’ve even gotten to the point that I do treat waitresses and female servers exactly the same as the males and tip simply based on service. I eat my food, speak when I need something, and move on with my day. However, myself being more of a loner than most men (I can count all of my closest friends on one hand, the rest are acquaintances), it’s easier for me to refuse the plantation and all of it’s “perks”. I’m still having issues fighting my want to please and that is the toughest battle that I have been having.
    It’s a long road tarn, especially when you leave the comfort of societal norms (we’re social creatures) and curbing a raging sexual appetite (something that evolution has given us) it’s no wonder that women is all that MGTOW sites talk about. Add in the infighting and the growing rift between the sexes and you have some deep problems with society.

    Liked by 5 people

  154. Yoda says:

    Fuzzie – “RIvorce?”

    Probably like Astro the dog he is.
    “Frivorce” probably the intended word it was

    Liked by 2 people

  155. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Ame,
    Frivorce. I need to start proofing my comments better. Again.
    If the word is new, it is a mash up of frivolous and divorce yielding the word frivorce.

    Liked by 2 people

  156. Ame says:

    no worries! just wondering if there was another term i’m not familiar with 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  157. Liz says:

    Horseman, I think there are plenty of women who “do not think about men EVER”
    “like how they think about their transmission fluid. Its there. It has a purpose but its just not a part of their life”

    I don’t personally think that’s a good attribute for a woman to have, but I think that’s actually pretty common.

    Liked by 3 people

  158. Liz says:

    Most women I know know so little about men it’s obvious they think of them more like transmission fluid.

    Also, the “selfish” love thing always puzzles me. I’m sure I’ve never been loved unselfishly but that doesn’t bother me, and I’m pretty sure I don’t love unselfishly (no, not even my sons…though I do love them deeply and certainly their survival takes precedence to mind…to that is NOT unselfish). These unconditional and unselfish love discussions tend to perplex me.

    Liked by 5 people

  159. Liz says:

    Just reading through some of the posts above kind of brings to mind an anecdote.

    When I was in Asia, I went through a bit of culture shock and most of the “culture shock” was simply human communication differences. My social conditioning told me that certain behaviors were proper and correct, but in Asia those behaviors might be considered rude…or even very rude. And vice versa. Just one small example, one day I had a rather large zit on my face (Korea did not agree with me) and a teacher pointed to it and asked me what was wrong with my face (in front of a lot of people). Here it is polite to ignore a facial blemish (unless one is being catty…a chick at the makeup counter did once point to a blemish on my face but the motivation and intent were very different), but there it is actually polite to ask about something different.

    I found out (much later) when I began to understand the culture more…noting a difference on another person sent the message that you care about the person. So for example the teacher/friend who noted the zit on my face was very very pleased when people asked her about a wart that made an appearance over her eye one day.

    So, I think communication variences kind of cause problems in internet communication too. Language can be very subjective and words can convey different meanings to people. Even though we are all (in theory) from essentially the same culture, people do communicate differently…in the real world most communication isn’t even verbal so it’s something to consider.

    Everyone has their idiocyncrasies in language. I am kind of obsessed with specifics. That’s why when I read a media report that is one-sided or very partial, I try to never make a judgement until there is enough information to base a judgement. I do this in real life as well. Details are important to me. Mike was telling a story just last night about one of our sons, and I corrected him at one point because he said our son was riding his bike, when he had actually been walking the dog. The friend across the table pounded the table and said, “we must be accurate” or some such, laughing good-naturedly at me…but it’s true, that’s how I am.

    So…Here it goes.
    When I read “these groups of men” it kind of conveys the same idea to me as it did to BV. But I’m also going by intent, not just what is said and so when I grasp the intent it changes my interpretation. But, I’ve honestly always wondered the following.
    I don’t want to anger anyone and I like Tarn very much, but the whole “friends with benefits” idea…
    When I hear (or read) “friend with benefits” (again, coming from my perspective which is obviously different from yours) I hear “fuck buddy”. The reason I interpret it that way is:
    the word friend means “buddy” and the word fuck is just a more direct word for the euphemism “with benefits”. I dont’ understand the difference between the two statements.

    Liked by 2 people

  160. Liz says:

    I love you Tarn, please don’t be mad…I’ve honestly wondered this for a while.

    Liked by 2 people

  161. Spawny Get says:

    Perhaps we should regard Tarn’s relationship status as ‘complicated’? Which is presumably accurate…

    Liked by 3 people

  162. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    I respect Tarn’s relationship as being deeper than she states. She must have her reasons.

    Liked by 3 people

  163. Liz says:

    LOL Fair enough Swithy.

    Liked by 2 people

  164. BuenaVista says:

    It doesn’t matter if BV and Tarn agree on jack.

    It does matter if 25 years of building a family and legacy are equated with non-residential, once-a-week, child-free, do-me-do-me-do-me zipless fucking. In fact, the notion that they are somehow related, or even remotely informative (here’s what my zipless fuck lifestyle can tell you about living in the SMP), except to illustrate the post-modern nihilism of the current SMP, is pretty silly.

    People who use terminology like “group of men” are referring to men, in their individuality, as curious breeds of dogs or feral gangmembers or 9/11 hijackers or something. Since a majority of men now abjure marriage, “othering” men in this fashion is to willfully ignore mainstream behavior while impugning male motive and integrity. It’s easy enough to encounter these attitudes at church or the PTA, Jezebel.com, or NationalReview.com. If we’re going to implement them here, fine, just say so, instead of posting 50x. The “group of men” can migrate easily, elsewhere.

    Like

  165. Spawny Get says:

    I read Horseman’s comment where he described a group of men who saw no relevance of women to their lives. I then read Ame asking Horseman, in my mind, what differentiated still-living-with-wife Horseman from that group. An interesting question. I simply don’t see the reason for anger. Now it was late, I’d had a few beers, maybe I wasn’t sharp enough???

    (To be clear, the next part is not about Ame. It’s about words generally)

    Also, maybe it’s just me, but I don’t invest much emotion in what words people use to describe me. I’ll not hand that weapon to contentious cnuts like feminists. It’s more effective to laugh at them…much more effective. Women love to get men angry, love to see their control over men. Ignore the cnuts.

    They use words to attack. I hear them. They’re now my enemy. Now what’s the best method to fuck them up? With SJW and feminist alike, it’s to laugh at them, ridicule their stupidity and ignore their fucked in the head ramblings.

    Liked by 2 people

  166. Spawny Get says:

    Tarn isn’t equating anything. She’s describing the best option that she has. Not her perfect life. She has no desire to have kids with her partner, I understand that to be mutual. I have never seen an attempt to belittle you or your life. I have only seen sympathy. It’s fine that you don’t want that.

    Liked by 2 people

  167. Ame says:

    BV –

    it was an innocent question and i apologize for wording it in such a way to upset anyone. i thought i explained it (copied below), but i guess not. i kinda feel like this has all gone over my head, so i’ll just stop now.

    ===

    “Ame says:
    1 May, 2016 at 8:49 pm
    the one he described here. perhaps i misread or misinterpreted?

    Horseman says:
    1 May, 2016 at 7:19 pm
    Tarn

    I just mean the female equivalent of several guys at work, some divorced, some never married. They work, manage staff, then play ball, watch tv, one pursueing a degree in philosophy for the hell of it, me playing with ponies. Washing, cooking, keeping immaculate houses that are a eight room man cave. Basically being poroductive, well adjusted citizens but with nary a female in sight. oh and a happier group is rare to see.”

    Liked by 1 person

  168. Tarnished says:

    I don’t want to anger anyone and I like Tarn very much, but the whole “friends with benefits” idea…

    You’re asking an honest question, Liz. I could never hate you…or even mildly dislike you…for that. 🙂

    So, the reason I make a big distinction between Friends with Benefits VS fuckbuddy is due to the drastically different meaning for it in my area. If you recall, I live within 20 miles of 5 colleges plus 2 vocational schools…lots of non-married sex going on.

    In the usage I’m familiar with, a fuckbuddy is just a booty call. Someone you met, maybe at a club or party, and had sex with. Then you decide “hey, she/he was pretty good, I’ll call they next time I’m horny”. They’re essentially prostitutes (you spend time fucking then you go home), except nobody gets paid.

    FwB, on the other hand, is exactly what it says. They are people you are real friends with, but you agree there’s mutual attraction so you have sex sometimes and aren’t exclusive lIke a boy/girlfriend would be. But you also go to movies together, play games, hang out, go to dinner, take vacations, wake up at 2am to go get them from the airport. Y’know…what people who care about you as a person do.
    So in my area, they mean two totally different things.

    And if I ever…EVER…made it seem like I was trying to equate my relationship to a marriage with children and all the legality that comes with it?

    I apologize.
    A lot.

    I’m in this relationship type precisely *because* neither of us want that. I fully respect those that do, and can do it successfully together.

    Liked by 2 people

  169. Liz says:

    “You’re asking an honest question, Liz. I could never hate you…or even mildly dislike you…for that.”

    Oh squee! Thanks for the language clarification, Tarn.
    Now I kind of wish I’d asked this sooner…

    Liked by 1 person

  170. Tarnished says:

    It’s ok. No harm done.

    Liked by 1 person

  171. thedeti says:

    Much respect to Horseman. Tip of the curved-brimmed baseball cap to you, sir.

    I must say, if Mrs. deti ever moved out for three months, there would be no taking her back. That kind of action would be the end of our marriage. A married woman does not act like this.

    Liked by 2 people

  172. SFC Ton says:

    to the OP
    Got done with breakfast with a friend of mine. Good dude, decent shape etc, not a pussy but not rude
    87 approaches; 0 positive response. Told me when trying online dating not only did he get 0 replies but normally was blocked.

    So no I do not help the general population of women. There life is already to easy and nothing will change until they suffer

    Liked by 1 person

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