Validation — A Personal Journey


Let start off by stating that I am an INT. I have always been this, even as a three year old.  And I own a killer INT Death Stare.  At times I have been known to deliver an evaluation of what I truly think about a situation, often causing much unhappiness at my assessment of the reality.

I say this because this because being a While Male INT with a Death Stare put me on a path where validation from the outside was not something to be expected.  As a child, I perhaps received some validation from my excellent school grades.  And my Mom liked me.  That was pretty much it.

As an adult; it is pretty much the same thing.  There were a few periods where I did dabble with a desire for validation, but those quickly passed.  Mostly, I dealt with an internal validation, where I was gratified with completing a task well, or doing a good deed.  Basically, I can live just fine without any validation.  This allows for a clear mind, and also allows for a clear purpose.

Now contrast that to many (especially modern) people.  They live for validation, for every moment of their lives.  A large number of these people are girls and young women.  I have a difficulty seeing how people could live like this, for with me, contentment comes from doing not being, and furthermore  it comes from the inside.   So many young females expect validation for just being; if this does not lead to an entitlement mentality, I am not sure what would.

Perhaps I have not enjoyed the gratification of validation as other people have, but I believe that I in many ways am better for it.  What say you?

 

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Posted in FarmBoy, INTJ
107 comments on “Validation — A Personal Journey
  1. Spawny Get says:

    Knucklebump brother. Me too. Well said

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Spawny Get says:

    Hah!

    BBC’s This Week (political show) mentioned a new poll on Brexit. 45% want out. 36% are fucking idiots suckers. 9% are having trouble knowing how daft they are.

    Rumours that Dave’s dodgy deal, seen as laughable here, is seen as too generous by other countries wanting to continue picking our pockets. The final deal that is offered may not be as ‘generous’ as what Dave is waving around.

    Good night

    Liked by 3 people

  3. Tarnished says:

    Farm Boy, you may as well have been describing me.

    The constant INTJ Death Stare that I always have to stay aware of while in public, and consciously school my face into a smile.

    The ability to see the harsh truth of most situations and dislike received when I point it out, even when done politely or tactfully.

    The lack of outside validation from nearly all adults except for a random teacher or my mother. If I got a 98% on a test, the response by 3 of my 4 parents wasn’t “good job” but rather “who got the other 2 points” or “hopefully you’ll do better next time”. This led to me striving harder and harder in school; staying after for clubs, tutoring other students, taking every AP or Honors class I could fit into my schedule, getting awards in art class. But no. Never good enough. So in 10th grade I decided I would excel for me.

    Best decision of my life, honestly. If you allow your sense of worth…of esteem…of self to be defined by others? You’re in for a world of hurt. People are rarely pleased for long periods of time, and I’ve noticed that even basic contentment seems to be fleeting for most. Rather than be disappointed, realize that you have intrinsic value as a decent human being instead of letting society judge you based on the utility you provide.

    This is true confidence, my friends.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Farm Boy,
    As well as thje respect of all that are present, there is one invidual who lives on a swampy planet who is small and green who has your respect. His wife would love to make you sandwiches.

    Liked by 3 people

  5. Yoda says:

    Hmmmm? Yesss?
    Sammiches for all.
    Good it would be

    Liked by 3 people

  6. Yoda says:

    Watch exercise videos they did.
    Butt hurt they did become

    A look at the paper itself reveals that The Team analyzed 10 fitness DVDs they got from either the library (4), off the internet (2), or brought with them to school from the house (4).

    They analyzed the potential psychological effects of a quarter-billion-dollar industry using 10 DVDs, 40% of which they already owned. Then they analyzed the physical characteristics and attire of the instructors and models featured in the DVDs, the sex and race of the models and instructors (which was “assumed”), and the motivational content of the instruction.

    They did all kinds of interesting statistical analysis on their analysis, and they decided that about 25% of the verbal statements made in the 10 DVDs were motivational — but that also 1 in 7 of these statements was negative, and therefore “demotivating.”

    In other words, for every 1000 words spoken in the DVDs, 35 of those words might possibly hurt someone’s feelings

    https://pjmedia.com/lifestyle/2016/02/04/progressive-exercise-science-community-embarrasses-itself/

    Liked by 1 person

  7. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    More work here for Anita Sarkesian. It would be amusing to see her take on that industry.
    Such a cruel but happy thought.
    A mean bear I am.

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Yoda says:

    Roosh

    Of course, this is exactly the problem for some, who are calling on their governments to ban Valizadeh from even entering the country, to ban his fans from meeting up, and to criminalize all anti-woman “hate speech”—an impossibly broad category that seems to include everything from common insults to political expression at odds with feminism.

    As of February 3, more than 55,000 people had signed a petition calling for the Scottish government to prevent Valizadeh from entering the country. “Promoting rape is hate speech, and should be treated as such,” the petition read.

    http://reason.com/blog/2016/02/03/pickup-artist-roosh-v-causes-moral-panic

    Liked by 1 person

  9. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    That was a well reasoned and dispassionate post from reason.com. Good for them!
    If Lena is complaining about harrassment, she should wait until Roosh goes public.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. Cill says:

    I’ve never thought of myself and validation. I don’t like being taken for granted. Is that the same as I don’t like being unvalidated?

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Choicy says:

    Farm Boy, how are you mate? If I wanted validation I’d wait a bloody long time to get it, except for wombats and salties and the roos I hit with my truck. I live in the boonies with no human contact for weeks on end. You just gave me a thought, no validation might be a reason sheilas can’t live in the sticks mate.

    Liked by 3 people

  12. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    But Choicy, she wouldn’t be alone. She would have you for company.
    Good to see you!
    Molly says that she has all the George Thorogood songs ready.

    Like

  13. Choicy says:

    How are you going there, Fuzzie? I reckon I’ll just have to get used to validating them all the time. It’s a bit difficult to do when you’re out on a horse all day, mate.

    Like

  14. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Choicy,
    Get the horse to help. A heigh here ofr there would be most welcome.
    I am frustrated. I don’t there are any more George Thorogood songs to hear. 😦

    Like

  15. Choicy says:

    Fuzzie with music I’m a glutton for the oldies. I don’t know about you, I reckon One Bourbon One Scotch One Beer would go down pretty well mate

    Liked by 2 people

  16. Cill says:

    I concur with Choicy there, Fuzzy mate 😉

    Liked by 2 people

  17. Choicy says:

    Cillo mate I’m used to you taking the mickey out of me.

    Like

  18. Cill says:

    Can’t help it Choicy. I have a character flaw.

    Like

  19. Cill says:

    That Fosters I accidentally drank. Damn.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. Cill says:

    Anyway Choicy, what are we doing corresponding with each other through keyboards when we’re sitting 3 feet apart IRL? That’s fairly unusual behaviour from a couple of blokes from the wopwops.

    Liked by 3 people

  21. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Can do!

    Ask Molly to play “Gearjammer” when she gets there. That will make her happy.

    Liked by 4 people

  22. Choicy says:

    I don’t know about you mate. I’m over here living it up to the Thorogood song.

    Liked by 1 person

  23. Choicy says:

    One Bourbon One Scotch One Beer is good balm for an outback digger’s sunbaked head. Thanks for the music Fuzzie.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Cill says:

    I’ve got a good supply of all 3 of them here, Bourbon, Scotch and beer. What is your fancy, Choicy me mate?

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Choicy says:

    I think why am I sitting here in front of a screen when I could be out on a deck 80 feet above the sea glugging Fosters, mate.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. Cill says:

    ‘Nuff said.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Choicy,
    You are brand loyl. Foster’s has you for life.

    Liked by 1 person

  28. Yoda says:

    If mutual consent there was,
    Then How Roosh rape he did?

    Liked by 1 person

  29. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    The fembots will always find a way to discount the woman’s consent.
    They are pretty awful. Can you imagine sitting down to a holiday dinner with them?

    The whole crime revolves around the notion of consent. Mena aren’t mind readers.

    Liked by 3 people

  30. SFC Ton says:

    Validation is another righteous concept the left has fucked up

    When you accomplish things and build your sense of worth from tangible things, like grades or making a sports team you build a healthy sense of self

    When you are wonderful just because you get the women of today

    Liked by 3 people

  31. Liz says:

    Cill: “I’ve never thought of myself and validation. I don’t like being taken for granted. Is that the same as I don’t like being unvalidated?”

    I was thinking something similar.
    This is the sort of topic that gets my mind spinning. I’d like to agree with (Pink Floyd tune comin’) “I don’t need no….validation”. But in reality my actions ARE influenced on the opinions of others. Social courtesies, and so forth. I think I mentioned this at Bloom’s a while back. It’s easy to reflexively agree that seeking validation is bad…but is it? I’d say seeking validation from people of poor character is bad. Seeking validation (“well done, you”) from someone you admire and respect….well, that’s just a way of earning respect isn’t it? So, there are a lot of people whose opinion I couldn’t care less about (and if I get an attagirl from those, I’ll start to reflect on whether or not my action/decision/opinion is correct), and there are folks whose opinion I do respect and value, and those people do influence my life decisions/actions/opinions.

    Then we get into the grey area. For example, social courtesies. When a person is needlessly rude to others, is that sign they “don’t need no validation”? Obviously they are violating social courtesies and being and arrogant (insert gender appropriate pejorative), and this is less likely to get them validation. But those types typically suck up to the “right people” then simultaneously take pride in being a turd the rest of the time.
    Here is a good example: http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/mohadesa-najumi/ban-bossy-women-who-do-not-need-validation-are-feared_b_4971919.html

    The title paraphrases a quote from a famous feminist:
    “Woman Who Does Not Require Validation from Anyone Is the Most Feared Individual On the Planet”

    Of course the article itself (paradoxically) is ipso facto validation seeking. Interesting stuff.
    At the end of the day, to summarize….I seek validation/approval from people I admire, and kind of gauge whether my actions are correct or not (socially) by the way I am received. I don’t like making people uncomfortable or unhappy on purpose, if I can help it. On the flip side, I do what I believe is right, even if that is very unpopular.

    Liked by 3 people

  32. Spawny Get says:

    Related to validation, I’ve had arguments over the word ‘respect’ before.

    Am I required to ‘respect’ everyone just for being able to breath?

    Only if you mean something very basic by the word ‘respect’.

    If you mean agree with everything they say, celebrate their every action, accept that due to my ‘privilege’ their opinions are more worthy than mine…nope. That way lie insanity and inanity. Bon voyage feckwits, I am not going on that journey with you.

    Liked by 3 people

  33. Liz says:

    The word “respect” has kind of gone the way of the word “tolerance”.
    Social conditioning via changing the language is one weapon in the SJW’s arsenal.

    Liked by 3 people

  34. Liz says:

    Interesting to reflect on how the mind works, too. Here is an example (this is tangentially related, although it might not seem like it at first):
    I volunteer and a Museum in the local area. It has become obvious to me that people are willing to pay a much higher price for “gifts” in the gift shop area at the museum than they would in a regular store. Of course, it works this way in a lot of different places. It seems everything is relative and folks will spend a lot in a spendy place, and think little of it whereas they would be hesitant to spend that much on the same items elsewhere. I think that “relativity” works in social situations as well.

    People act differently in the city, and so forth. Is that related to validation? Probably indirectly, I would say. Of course women are more prone to herd tendencies because their brains are wired more to adher to whatever the social standard behavior of their crowd. Which is why rudeness itself (the anti-validation) has become a type of validation. But don’t disagree with the SJW memes and for goodness sake stick to talking points and safe words.

    Liked by 2 people

  35. Tarnished says:

    If mutual consent there was,
    Then How Roosh rape he did?

    He did admit, in one of his books, to having sex with a woman so drunk she had to lean on him to walk, lest she faceplant into the sidewalk. In most western countries that means she was unable to make accurate decisions/give consent, which I agree with (and so does Roosh, as he actually takes time to literally say “this is considered rape in a lot of countries”. Paraphrasing here.) Whether this story is true or not…well, that’s another question. I really do not believe he is half the “success” he makes himself out to be.

    Edited to add:
    I think that having sex with anyone at that level of drunkenness is rape if *you* are sober. This goes for either sex and any sexual interactions, hetero or otherwise. I don’t believe that crap where, if a drunk man and drunk woman had sex, she was raped and he was not. Either they were raped by each other, or they had stupid drunk sex. Fems need to decide which it is and stick to it.

    Liked by 3 people

  36. Tarnished says:

    Spawny @ 11:09

    I think I know who that argument was had with. 😉
    And yes, my grandmothers raised me to “respect” everyone. Male, female. Younger or older than I. Disabled or no. Homo or hetero. Taller or shorter. Every skin color and ethnicity.
    But they were indeed using it in the most basic of terms. Not to submit or grovel to others, but to just treat everyone as a human being.

    They never said anything about accepting or even tolerating everything a person says or does, though. Far from it. In fact, much like Liz, they said standing up for yourself is necessary even if everyone disagrees with you. Hence why I can live in an ultra-liberal hippie/fembot area and still care about men’s rights.

    Liked by 3 people

  37. Tarnished says:

    For example, social courtesies. When a person is needlessly rude to others, is that sign they “don’t need no validation”?

    No. It’s a sign they are a douche.
    You can require no validation from a pharmacy cashier, or your plumber, or a next door neighbor but that doesn’t mean it is acceptable to go out of one’s way to make their day worse. That gets out of the realm of “I don’t need people to validate my decisions” and into “I don’t care how my actions affect those around me”.

    Liked by 2 people

  38. Liz says:

    “No. It’s a sign they are a douche.”

    True and point taken, Tarn.
    But…how do we learn not to be a “douche”?
    The usual way is via watching the approval/disapproval of that behavior in others. Starts WAY back before we’re even capable of speech.

    Liked by 1 person

  39. Liz says:

    Just to add: And it continues. You learn social nuances largely via observation (“approval”). Works when one is traveling also…one should always read up on the basic customs/courtesies in the foreign place, but I’ve learned the most just from observation (often micro-expression or expressions rather than outright disapproval). Eventually, it’s innate and at that point you’re a native. 🙂
    (as I mentioned in the first post, this is the sort of subject I can think on for a long long while)

    Liked by 2 people

  40. Tarnished says:

    The usual way is via watching the approval/disapproval of that behavior in others.

    An even better question would be “how do we decide which approval/disapproval we care about”?

    I think of the 2 older daughters of the main WBC family, who ended up leaving, or one of my college classmates who cut ties with a lot of his family upon finding a new place to live because they were KKK members. Then again, I had a female neighbor in high school who was loudly pro-life, and she came from one of the most liberal families I’d ever met.

    What makes us shun or uphold the beliefs of our family/society/education? Does one give us more approval and that’s what we flock to? Or is that the difference between needs for internal vs external validation?

    Liked by 1 person

  41. Liz says:

    “What makes us shun or uphold the beliefs of our family/society/education? Does one give us more approval and that’s what we flock to? Or is that the difference between needs for internal vs external validation?”

    That’s an interesting question Tarn. Now, I’ll be thinking about THAT ONE all morning too.
    😛

    My guess would be it’s the last bit (internal validation beats external), but then I consider Mike is a SERIOUS extrovert but this is one respect we are the same.

    On that note, it’s weird this morning I was doing laundry and I noticed he left his Friday shirt in the drawer. He’d forgotten to wear it. I went upstairs and texted him that he had forgotten to wear his Friday shirt and he responded, “It’s funny you mention that, I was just thinking that two minutes ago. Seriously.” That was when I’d been looking in his drawer. This actually happens to us quite often, but it’s always weird when it does. I might be looking at brownies in a coffee shop and thinking how much Mike would like one, and a couple of minutes later he’ll text me and say, “I’m having a brownie at the airport right now. It’s the first time I’ve had one in two years…”

    Liked by 3 people

  42. Tarnished says:

    Now, I’ll be thinking about THAT ONE all morning too.

    Preferable to thinking about the Kardashians or similar though, yes? 😉

    Ha! I did that the other day to my guy as well, but with drinks. We both love flavored seltzer water, and he usually asks me to pick up a vanilla or berry one. But this last time I bought an orange flavored one for him, almost without thinking. When he saw what I picked out,  he was surprised…”How did you know I wanted citrus this time?” Just a case of temporarily being on the same wavelength, I think.

    The actual mechanisms behind these coincidences, or when you complete each others sentences/supply words for the other I’ll leave to scientists to figure out.

    Liked by 2 people

  43. Yoda says:

    But…how do we learn not to be a “douche”?

    The usual way is via watching the approval/disapproval of that behavior in others.

    Lean from “disapprovals” one can.
    “Approvals” not always needed they are

    Liked by 2 people

  44. Yoda says:

    Wonder if Kardashians survive a day without validation they could

    Liked by 2 people

  45. Liz says:

    “The actual mechanisms behind these coincidences, or when you complete each others sentences/supply words for the other I’ll leave to scientists to figure out.”

    Yeah. I’ve read about explanations of the “short wave” ones that make sense. People often are able to calibrate and form conclusions based on microexpressions, or shared memories that work on the subconscious rather than conscious mind. For example, if we are in a new place that reminds us of another similar place we both shared, it might trigger a common memory which seems to come out of the blue but was really triggered by something else. The long distance ones aren’t really explainable that way though (when he is miles away). Your orange flavored water is another example that is hard to explain.

    It’s too bad this isn’t predictable enough for a parlor trick. 😛
    It does make it virtually impossible to have secrets between us, though.
    I texted him:
    “My psychic link with you makes it very hard for you to be tricksy. So b good u.” 😉
    He texted back:
    “Likewise. I am very good.”
    I texted back:
    “I am angel.”

    Time to run on the mill!

    Liked by 1 person

  46. Yoda says:

    Lena opens her mouth much she does,

    The more Lena Dunham talks, the more she raises the question: Is her entire career and persona an ingenious undercover scheme dreamed up by a GOP operative specifically to discredit Millennials, feminists, and progressives? Is she the Manchurian Girl?

    Dunham’s latest faux pas, or perhaps her latest strategically planned attack on lefty follies, occurred at the Sundance Film Festival, where at a panel discussion on an unrelated topic she offered this directive: “The way that Hillary Clinton’s been talked about in the media is so gendered and rabidly sexist in every single portrayal,” she said. “Whether it’s the attacks on her personal life or the adjectives that are used to describe her clothing, we have to do a full reexamination. Like, I literally want to make a list that we hand to media outlets that says, like, ‘these are the words you can’t use when describing a female candidate: shrill, inaccessible, difficult, frumpy, plastic. I mean there’s just a list of words that—if we were allowed to talk about male candidates like that, I’d have a f—king field day. I’d enjoy my life so much.”

    http://acculturated.com/lena-dunham-manchurian-girl/

    Go to the above website you should.
    Look at Ms. Dunham”s picture you might.
    Assess as to whether 55 years old appears she does.

    Liked by 1 person

  47. Yoda says:

    More on Lena fro article above this is,

    She even publicly spatted with the feminist website Jezebel in a kind of John Woo tableau of crazed trigger fingers. (The logic of the dispute, pitched at a dog-whistle frequency perceived only by feminists, was this: Jezebel assumed Dunham’s photo shoot for Vogue was retouched, as virtually all glamour-puss magazine photo shoots are, and issued a demand to see the real pictures on grounds that showing Dunham in a less flattering light would be reassuring to ugly people who feel threatened by “unattainable beauty ideals.” Dunham’s view was that it was hurtful to be thought of as that ugly and said the site and its corporate relative Gawker were much like wife-beaters. Jezebel fans in turn proclaimed that remark was hurtful to domestic violence victims, etc., etc., etc.)

    Liked by 1 person

  48. Yoda says:

    Different from EU Russia would be


    A group of 51 refugees were brutally assaulted outside a night club in Murmansk, Russia, after they groped and molested women at a night club Saturday.

    http://dailycaller.com/2016/02/04/refugees-go-clubbing-in-russia-harass-girls-wake-up-in-hospital-the-next-morning/

    Liked by 1 person

  49. Tarnished says:

    The long distance ones aren’t really explainable that way though (when he is miles away).

    I wonder if it isn’t the same explanation, just on an expanded level. Perhaps after spending so much time with another person, and learning all their little preferences, you subconsciously know when those preferences change simply because you’re now used to thinking of them as though they’re present. He’s done the same for me too, like a few weeks ago when he gave back my copy of Skyrim after borrowing it for 3 months…on the same day I randomly thought of how I’d like to play it again.

    Of course, we could also just be experiencing a type of memory bias. Did you ever think on *other* shopping days about how Mike would enjoy a brownie and he *wasn’t* eating one miles away? Did I think about wanting to play Skyrim on different days when my guy *didn’t* give it back? Some of these could just be a case of serendipity brought on by subconscious/memory driven selection bias.

    Too bad there’s probably nobody studying this. It’s really interesting.

    Like

  50. Tarnished says:

    Off topic (when are we not though):

    Who here thinks that the results of this poll

    …is a direct cause of women like this and the female guests above?

    Liked by 1 person

  51. Tarnished says:

    Spawny Space male commenters…

    Which would you prefer on a first date (including in a hypothetical where you would go on one, for those who don’t date)?

    1. You pay 100%
    2. You split 50/50
    3. Split according to choices
    4. She pays 100%

    I’ve heard a lot of women and a few men say that option 4 is always bad, because it completely emasculates the guy. True or false, in your opinion?

    Like

  52. Spawny Get says:

    If I were still interested…2 or 3 would be okay. Just as they are when I’m going out for a night with friends.

    But I’m not.

    Like

  53. Spawny Get says:

    4 wouldn’t come up in a scenario I can foresee.

    Like

  54. Liz says:

    Anyone interested in knowing what the current state of “justice” is for our (male) soldiers should read this. It’s unbelieveable.

    http://www.jqpublicblog.com/broken-wings-the-cautionary-tale-of-ip7/

    ““IP7” was a Captain in the USAF and an Instructor Pilot (IP) at Laughlin Air Force Base in Texas. What follows is the story of how he went from being successful and well-regarded officer with a brilliant future to being criminalized, ruined, and forcibly ejected from the service, all without ever having committed a wrong.”

    Liked by 1 person

  55. Yoda says:

    Feminists for Hillary,

    This has led certain feminists to the verge of a nervous breakdown. Why, the chorus goes, is Bernie cast as the future, while Hillary gets painted as “the establishment”? Hillary Clinton is a woman, didn’t you notice? She is by her very nature oppressed; by definition, she cannot be the establishment. Never mind her questionable treatment of the many women who accused her husband of sexual assault; never mind her current classified e-mail quagmire, in which she may have put national security at risk. She is a woman, America. Everything else is chump change.

    On Tuesday, Wendy Davis, another national “feminist icon,” sent out a completely crazed pro-Hillary/post-Iowa tweet. You might remember Davis as the Democratic media darling who got creamed in the last Texas gubernatorial race, and who now serves as a slightly unhinged full-time abortion enthusiast, because today’s feminists don’t seem to choose their icons very well. I won’t quote Davis’s tweet because it contains the f-bomb, but please know it was written in all capital letters, as most rational thoughts are. It also praises a now-viral feminist Internet rant, which includes the following quote:

    “I’M NOT SAYING THERE AREN’T REASONS SOMEONE SHOULD DISLIKE HILLARY OR PREFER BERNIE. THAT IS FINE. THAT IS YOUR JOURNEY. BUT LET’S NOT PRETEND FOR A SECOND THAT THERE WOULD BE *THIS MANY* ISSUES WITH HILLARY IF SHE WAS A [SWEAR WORD] MAN….AND THE THING IS–I LIKE BERNIE! EVERYONE LIKES BERNIE! BECAUSE CRAZY GRANDPA IS TOTALLY ELECTABLE BUT CRAZY GRANDMA NEVER COULD BE. BUT WHY DO WE HAVE TO HATE HER TO SHOW HOW MUCH WE LOVE HIM? SOCIALIST JESUS TAKE THE [F-WORD] WHEEL.”

    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/02/04/feminists_melt_down_over_unlikable_hillary_clinton_129550.html

    Liked by 1 person

  56. Liz says:

    There wouldn’t be this many issues if Hillary was a man.
    Because no man who was anything like Hillary, in any way, would have ever gone anywhere near half as far as she has.

    Liked by 3 people

  57. Yoda says:

    Because no man who was anything like Hillary, in any way, would have ever gone anywhere near half as far as she has.

    If white male you are,
    then better you must be

    Liked by 1 person

  58. Liz says:

    BWAHAHAHAA! Yoda. 😀

    Liked by 1 person

  59. Yoda says:

    BERLIN (Reuters) – Islamic State militants have slipped into Europe disguised as refugees, the head of Germany’s domestic intelligence agency (BfV) said on Friday, a day after security forces thwarted a potential IS attack in Berlin.

    http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0VE0XL

    Like

  60. Yoda says:

    Facebook,

    It was only a few weeks ago that Facebook was forced to back down when caught permitting anti-Israel postings, but censoring equivalent anti-Palestinian postings.

    Now one of the most sinister stories of the past year was hardly even reported. In September, German Chancellor Angela Merkel met Mark Zuckerberg of Facebook at a UN development summit in New York. As they sat down, Chancellor Merkel’s microphone, still on, recorded Merkel asking Zuckerberg what could be done to stop anti-immigration postings being written on Facebook. She asked if it was something he was working on, and he assured her it was.

    At the time, perhaps the most revealing aspect of this exchange was that the German Chancellor – at the very moment that her country was going through one of the most significant events in its post-war history – should have been spending any time worrying about how to stop public dislike of her policies being vented on social media. But now it appears that the discussion yielded consequential results.

    Last month, Facebook launched what it called an “Initiative for civil courage online,” the aim of which, it claims, is to remove “hate speech” from Facebook – specifically by removing comments that “promote xenophobia.” Facebook is working with a unit of the publisher Bertelsmann, which aims to identify and then erase “racist” posts from the site. The work is intended particularly to focus on Facebook users in Germany. At the launch of the new initiative, Facebook’s chief operating officer, Sheryl Sandberg, explained that, “Hate speech has no place in our society – not even on the internet.” She went to say that, “Facebook is not a place for the dissemination of hate speech or incitement to violence.” Of course, Facebook can do what it likes on its own website. What is troubling is what this organization of effort and muddled thinking reveals about what is going on in Europe.

    http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/02/05/facebooks-war-on-freedom-of-speech/

    Liked by 1 person

  61. Liz says:

    I recently watched a movie with Charles Bronson, filmed in the 1970s, but the story was depression-era genre.
    What struck me (and Mike, he was the one who brought it up) was the difference between any expectation of anonymity then and now. A person could truly just disappear and start over then, if he (or she) was smart enough and industrious enough. You can’t do that now. There are videos everywhere. The population itself is videotaping…interesting stuff. Facebook might “ban” what it perceives as “xenophobia” but I don’t believe for a minute that they aren’t keeping track of whomever made that commentary. Maybe I sound paranoid, but just because you’re paranoid…doesn’t mean they aren’t watching you.

    Liked by 3 people

  62. SFC Ton says:

    the 1st few “dates” should be coffee, milkshakes etc. Things that don’t cost much. Figure she puts out before you spend $30. One of the advantages of having a bike when dating is cost reduction. Ridding three towns over for coffee and to walk down main street is fun, meeting for coffee in the same town you live in is lame. Also while you are gassing up the bike, ask her to run inside and buy you guys a bottle of tea or what have you. its a good, quick and easy to implement test of her intentions.

    She earns having dinner etc paid for by being a good lay. Otherwise you are her beta provider.

    Interacting with women to any degree is always some sort of contest. Its how they are made and view the world

    Like

  63. Tarnished says:

    Ton,

    Figure she puts out before you spend $30.

    Wow. Even with the dates just being cheap things like milkshakes or tea, that seems a quick time to have sex. How common is it that this will happen…50%, 65%, 80% of dates?

    …ask her to run inside and buy you guys a bottle of tea or what have you. its a good, quick and easy to implement test of her intentions.

    What exactly is this testing?  😕

    She earns having dinner etc paid for by being a good lay. Otherwise you are her beta provider.

    Sounds a lot like prostitution, just with a different label. If she asks you out and pays for the dinner/lunch/whatever, does this work for you?

    Also, how many dates of going dutch/her footing the bill are you willing to go on without sex (but still with things like kissing, hand holding, shoulder massages)? I know you’re not like all guys (Not All Men Are Like Ton, lol) but if I am going to start dating I’d like to see what at least some guys think of this.

    Like

  64. SFC Ton says:

    women dont go dutch. or split the bill. Well they dont do so and go on a second date.

    i have a ridiculously high close rate, or did, so yea near the 80% plus mark but women seem to be either hyper attracted to me or hate me ( which is likely another version of hyper attraction). within the last few years I don’t recall two many cups of coffee that didn’t lead to sex that day, or within 3 days.

    Most guys are fucking pussies Tarn and will keep handing out cash rewards like dinners etc for as long as the girl keeps texting him semi regularly.

    No woman has asked me out; so none have asked me out and offered to pay. I generally date much younger women so the expectation I would pay is likely higher then normal, but I will also say younger women are much more willing/ much happier spending a day on your bike, walking down some river walk 100 miles away etc and doing cheap dates then middle age chicks.

    Younger women are in it for the experience(generally) older women are in it for the draft horse.

    the most honest male/ female relationship there is, is the hooker john relationship. and yes dating, marriage etc is a version of prostitution

    How many would I go out on with her paying but not putting out? 3 tops. She is an easily replaceable commodity. As I said most dudes are pussies and would continue like that for months

    it is testing if she will do small things on your behalf, like run into the store, spend a small amount of money, you’ll learn to she if she does small thoughtful things like ask about your favorite brand

    It upside down land we expect women to test men and men to jump through hops like toy dogs when it should be the other way around

    did I answer everything for you?

    Liked by 1 person

  65. poseidon740 says:

    Some men of the manosphere speak as if they have no real experience with women; they just sling toxic, non-real bologna thinking the silly image they portray of themselves will yield some sort of psuedo respect.

    I prefer reality, as ugly as it is at times.

    Liked by 2 people

  66. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    I couldn’t read all the way through that. It just got worse and worse. Someone should tell them that loyalty goes both ways and they are deserving of none.

    Yes, before widespread fingerprinting, a man could start over.

    Liked by 2 people

  67. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    I don’t mind paying. What every guy minds is paying for women that aren’t in the least bit interested. They just want to be wined and dined.

    Every two years, thete is a story like that out of New York. A women who goes out on a lot of first dates and derives the benefit of thousands of dollars spent on her.
    They do like to tell us that we are chumps. I guess that makse them smarter by comparison.

    Liked by 2 people

  68. Tarnished says:

    They do like to tell us that we are chumps. I guess that makse them smarter worse by comparison.

    Fixed it for you.

    Liked by 1 person

  69. Tarnished says:

    did I answer everything for you?

    Yes, though I must admit I’m still confused on a bit of it.

    women dont go dutch. or split the bill. Well they dont do so and go on a second date.

    The 3rd part of this makes me think I’m missing something subtle here. Are women more likely to pay if they don’t like the way the 1st date is heading? I would think I’d be taking advantage of the guy if I didn’t go dutch, at least.

    within the last few years I don’t recall two many cups of coffee that didn’t lead to sex that day, or within 3 days.

    These women had enough of a connection with you within 1-3 dates to share such an intimate experience? Geez, sounds like BV and deti all over again. Unless it was 3 really long…like maybe 8 or 9 hour?…dates, I don’t think I could do that. Even then, 27 hours of getting to know someone doesn’t seem enough.

    Like

  70. Tarnished says:

    it is testing if she will do small things on your behalf, like run into the store, spend a small amount of money, you’ll learn to she if she does small thoughtful things like ask about your favorite brand

    Makes sense. I just never thought about needing to test for that. Assumed that if I’m into someone and they are into me, we’ll simply learn these things as time goes on.

    How many would I go out on with her paying but not putting out? 3 tops.

    Dates or months?

    Like

  71. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I need to feel mor cheerful. What will help?

    Liked by 1 person

  72. Tarnished says:

    Don’t know, Fuzzie.
    I’m not in a good mood myself. :/

    Liked by 1 person

  73. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    If that doesn’t work, there is always this.

    Liked by 1 person

  74. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    Maybe this?

    Liked by 1 person

  75. Liz says:

    “These women had enough of a connection with you within 1-3 dates to share such an intimate experience?”

    I’d probably be a spinster in today’s dating world, if I hadn’t met Mike. But, maybe not. I think the key (for someone like me, and maybe like you Tarn) is to get to know someone outside of the “dating” experience. I’ve mentioned I knew Mike very very well before that first date, and I don’t think he’d ever spent a penny on me. He might have bought me a soda before studying.
    I always went dutch back then, and I think I went dutch on our first date, too. After that he paid. And I moved in that night so I guess officially you could say I put out on our first date. But we’d known each other for three months…and I mean REALLY knew each other (we’d talked about everything, for hours and hours).

    Liked by 3 people

  76. SFC Ton says:

    LOL Tarn you are a loony critter but the world would be better for more of ya. Sadly… thats not the world we live in

    Yes Tarn you would learn those things over time but time is a resource. Why not have patterns of behavior which speed up the learning curve vs wasting our most limited resource?

    3 dates not 3 months. The 3 date rule is sort of the implied rule, if she is putting that off the logical conclusion is she is milking you for dates/ meals. She only needs to do that twice a week to really off set her cost of living/ socializing. Notice how I am note including her paying thing? Well I don’t do fiction. Women don’t pay unless there isn’t going to be a second or third etc date. Maybe on the 4th-ish date she will make diner or something like that. Which I am fine with.

    Odds are, when a woman pays or goes dutch on early dates she is paying to remove the expectation she will have to put out. Yes… much like prostitution but yes most likely so she doesn’t feel like she is taking advantage of a man. Way I see things, most women have already decide to put out by the time you get a date, from there its only a matter of time… time most guys usually fuck up.

    Girls putting out early… I am not saying they are hard core sluts but most women want to be caught up in a moment and swept off their feet; its a man’s job to do the sweeping and they love the bad boys/ respond to overt positive masculinity. And there I am. Unapologeticlly masculine; bike, scars, tattoos and swagger. Ranked by legitimate athletic authorities as one of the strongest guys around; ranked by the Army as one of the toughest guys around. World traveler. Jobs they make movies about, I rescue dogs, I’m funny they feel both secure and on edge around me… We don’t go for coffee and ice cream we go on an adventure because its on a bike.I already talked about how bikes display positive masculine qualities…and I am a very well trained and experienced rider so girls who have been on bikes before can tell the difference in expertise. It’s pretty easy for their imagination ie vagina to take over. Sadly it takes an astoundingly high level of accomplishments to decent with women. Luckily for me the things I am drawn to/ excel at flip a lot of ladies triggers. Literally my two short comings in the SMP is I am short; I am uneducated. Only the lack of height is a major obstacle.

    BV, Deti, a guy from JustFourGuys name Batista and myself are all sides of the same coin/ dice. Are stories are very similar at the most rudimentary level

    Things are as they are, not as I want them to be. I am…. whatever word you want to use to describe me because I learn from experiences. mine and others.

    If you start dating Tarn, I think you’ll run into a lot of problems. Mostly because guys are not use to honest agents in the SMP and likely to misinterpret your actions. Which puts the pressure on you to navigate things carefully/ offset what might be strange etc

    Liz I would purpose you were dating for three months but are part of the generation that called dating hanging out.

    Liked by 3 people

  77. Liz says:

    “Liz I would purpose you were dating for three months but are part of the generation that called dating hanging out.”

    Perhaps so….but if that’s the case he was “two timing”. There was no physical contact whatsoever during that time.
    He was still dating his ex. But he didn’t tell me he had a girlfriend and I never asked.

    Liked by 2 people

  78. Liz says:

    I should add, that’s the ONE thing we didn’t talk about. Probably for a reason. 😛

    Liked by 3 people

  79. Yoda says:

    Sum up Ton I will,
    “Men assume women date in good faith not”
    A legacy of feminism this would be

    Liked by 3 people

  80. Tarnished says:

    He was still dating his ex. But he didn’t tell me he had a girlfriend and I never asked.

    No offense intended to you or Mike, but it does sound as though he was weighing his “time to get out” options. Especially if said ex you’re referring to is that ex. You know the one. 😛

    I agree with Ton. I would consider what you two did as dating, or at least highly indicative that you thought of each other as high potential for More Than Friends status.

    I had 1 very good friend that I’d known throughout middle and high school that was average in looks (remember, I like “dadbod” type guys over muscular ones, so this opinion is subjective) but had an absolutely sparkling personality. If I’d been able to, I’d have dated him in a heartbeat. He’s been married for 9 years now to a fellow nerd-girl who hung out with our group sometimes and adores him, and they have 2 healthy sons. I’m glad he has a good life. He truly deserves it.

    Liked by 2 people

  81. Yoda says:

    Brazen she is,

    “Well, look, I’ve got to just jump in here because, honestly, Sen. Sanders is the only person who I think would characterize me, a woman running to be the first woman president, as exemplifying the establishment,” Clinton said, to applause. “And I’ve got to tell you that it is … it is really quite amusing to me.”

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/yes-hillary-clinton-you-are-part-of-the-establishment/article/2582530

    Liked by 1 person

  82. Liz says:

    “No offense intended to you or Mike, but it does sound as though he was weighing his “time to get out” options. Especially if said ex you’re referring to is that ex. You know the one.”
    Yep, definitely. I’m sure I was the impetus, though he’d been unhappy for a while.
    Lots of capers there that I won’t go into. But, no touching at all (nor sexual innuendo, seriously…I was VERY innocent there) until our first official date.

    Liked by 2 people

  83. Yoda says:


    it is testing if she will do small things on your behalf, like run into the store, spend a small amount of money, you’ll learn to she if she does small thoughtful things like ask about your favorite brand

    An example here it is

    Liked by 3 people

  84. Tarnished says:

    Tarn you are a loony critter but the world would be better for more of ya.

    Never claimed to be anything else. 😉
    Thank you, Ton.

    Why not have patterns of behavior which speed up the learning curve vs wasting our most limited resource?

    When put that way, it is an excellent point. Seems I need to change some of my ways of approaching this.

    The 3 date rule is sort of the implied rule, if she is putting that off the logical conclusion is she is milking you for dates/ meals. She only needs to do that twice a week to really off set her cost of living/ socializing. Notice how I am not including her paying thing? Well I don’t do fiction.

    Argh. And here I’d foolishly thought the 3 Date Rule was a thing from the 90s. Apparently it is still alive and well.
    I did notice that, yes. I’m sorry that in your, frankly vast, dating experience that the only gals who paid were the ones not interested in continuing to see you. It is what it is, but reality is very bitchy, I’m finding.

    Odds are, when a woman pays or goes dutch on early dates she is paying to remove the expectation she will have to put out.

    That would be a part of it, yes, but I also am “allergic” to owing people anything, even when they see it differently. Not to sound paranoid, but I learned early on that even basic things like food or shelter can be used against you, to claim that X or Y is “owed” because reasons. This is fairly ingrained by now, unfortunately. I prefer to be the one “owed”, because I know I’m nice and wouldn’t force a type of collection that the person can’t pay (if I ask for one at all…I like making people happy).

    I am not saying they are hard core sluts but most women want to be caught up in a moment and swept off their feet

    Ah! See, that’s the difference. My step-grandpa always said “If you get swept off your feet, you’re not paying attention to gravity.” He utterly despised the chick flick/romcoms my mom watched, because he said they were not a good basis for anything other than a month-long fling. I’m beginning to think it’s a very good thing I had so many grandparents, lol.

    I *do* like bikes. One of my uncles had a Harley, the other had a Kawasaki. I have very nice memories of riding with both of them. Mom didn’t like it because she thought it was dangerous, but I loved the feeling of wind on my face and the leaning around curves. If I had enough money (ha!) I’d get a bike. Bit envious of you, Ton. 😉

    Literally my two short comings in the SMP is I am short; I am uneducated. Only the lack of height is a major obstacle.
    *shrug* Unless you are literally a midget, I don’t care about height. My love is 6’2″, I’m 5’7″, and I constantly wish he was shorter. I’d like a guy who is between 5’5″ and 5’9″…something closer to my height so we can look each other in the eye, and so I don’t have to do tiptoes to smooch. 😙
    “Uneducated” to me means “willfully ignorant”. There’s lots of guys I game with who are super knowledgeable about their jobs or hobbies but are college dropouts. I truly enjoyed my time in university getting my Business/Philosophy degree, and would absolutely do it again, but it doesn’t mean I’m necessarily smarter than them.

    Liked by 2 people

  85. Yoda says:

    Educational credentials important to many people they are.
    But universities no longer teach students how to think they do.
    And an idiot still an idiot he would be

    Liked by 3 people

  86. Tarnished says:

    But universities no longer teach students how to think they do.

    It probably depends on the professor, Yoda. I found that the fresh faced, usually-but-not-always female ones pushed their own agendas/biases far, far more than the ones who had been there for 25+ years. My statistics, microeconomics, small business management, and ancient philosophy professors were all frickin amazing and strove to teach us to reconsider our stances or find new solutions. Some of my other ones were most assuredly…not looking to have us do anything other than standard memorization.

    Like

  87. Farm Boy says:

    I am familiar with modern universities. Yes, there are some good professors that try to get students to think. But this is more work for both profs and students. So maybe this doesn’t happen. By mutual consent

    Liked by 1 person

  88. @ Liz, I have to ask, so was the ex speechless when she found out you had moved in? Wow!!! But alls well that ends well!

    Liked by 2 people

  89. Liz says:

    “@ Liz, I have to ask, so was the ex speechless when she found out you had moved in? Wow!!! But alls well that ends well!”

    Yeah, considering they’d been dating for three years and she never got a drawer she was pretty surprised. That goes under the category of “capers”.

    Liked by 2 people

  90. Liz says:

    Mike’s psycho sister liked her, too. It was pretty ugly for a while.

    Like

  91. Tarnished says:

    So maybe this doesn’t happen. By mutual consent.

    Truth. Saw it happen many a time, as unfortunate as that is. I remember in my English class, we were discussing some Frost poems, and one of the guys had a brilliant analysis of one. You could tell that I and a handful of others were really impressed with it. But the prof said (I shit you not), “That’s not one of the accepted ideas for this work.”

    To say we were gobsmacked is putting it mildly. Wtf. 😕

    Liked by 2 people

  92. SFC Ton says:

    Right before i dropped out of high school, I took a test on the book Scarlet Letter

    One of the questions was something like ” What does the sunlight shining on Pearl while she plays in the forest signify?”

    My reply was “The sun is out/ Its day time”. Clearly, right? The sun doesn’t shine on anyone one unless its day time and there is no cloud cover. I was wrong and it meant a shit ton of shit not listed/ mentioned or written in the book. So I got the question wrong and failed the test.

    Right then and there I knew everything I needed to know about school, college, education, college education etc. As in its a load of fucking bullshit

    College to me is an unintellgent test. As in, your aren’t very bright if you have to go into debt and go to college to make a decent living

    But chicks eat that shit up because it’s a status symbol and indicates fiscal resources… which as an status symbol its completely fucked up/ wrong 80% of the time. But women cannot tell the difference between reality and illusion so the image of some trait is as effective in pulling ass, and often more effective then actually possessing said trait. Driving a high end foreign sports car works better then having enough money in the bank to buy two of them in cash and driving an older sedan.

    One of the many reasons why men “held women down”. Like children they are easily lead astray

    Remember Tarn, what I wrote isn’t about me but about prepping you for a possible foray into the SMP. Short dad-bod guys are not use to attention from attractive woman and will be skittish. If you set your sights on such a fella, you’ll have to deal with any skittishness. Most of what other people do is not in reaction to you us but what they have learned through a life time of experiences.

    Liked by 1 person

  93. SFC Ton says:

    PS I was married in the 90’s and busy with army shit so I have no idea when that rule came around but its still pretty much enforce. Or is for men who don’t have their head up their ass

    Few people date this way by logical conclusion but all seem to understand its an economic equation of sorts with time and money being the major commodities. Money with men more so then women and women have less time then men because of the wall

    Liked by 3 people

  94. Farm Boy says:

    Mike’s psycho sister liked her,

    Why are there so many psycho chicks out there?

    Is it because there is no Patriarchy to keep them in line?

    Liked by 2 people

  95. Liz says:

    Strangely, Mike’s family is intact and his father pretty patriarchal. I don’t know why she turned out the way she did. But it started very early. She dated a drug dealer in high school. Had every STD known to man (and couple of abortions) other than HIV by age 21. Tried every drug, was an alcoholic (she’d had her stomach pumped a bunch of times) and so forth.

    Liked by 1 person

  96. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    I am so glad that you found Mike for both of you.

    Tarn,
    I don’t know. I think that you have something special with your FwB. He is your all time one and only. That counts for a lot.
    About the three date rule. There are a lot of girls out there who like to be taken out. Setting a limit prevents wasting time and money. It may not have to involve sex but, intentions should be clear by then.

    Liked by 2 people

  97. Tarnished says:

    Wow, Liz. She sounds like a catch.
    …the kind you throw back.

    Liked by 2 people

  98. Tarnished says:

    As in, your aren’t very bright if you have to go into debt and go to college to make a decent living.

    I don’t understand that either.
    A decent living and increased learning can definitely be had without a formal higher education like university or college. Those that say otherwise are ignorant and have swallowed the typical BS hook, line, and sinker. Or they possibly plan on working in one of the few fields that legitimately require a degree.

    If you put yourself into debt that ruins you or destroys your credit ratio…you probably did it wrong. I paid off my Associate’s before graduation, and my Bachelor’s within 3 years of getting it. Going further and getting an MBA is not remotely cost effective, so unless I win the lottery, that certainly won’t be happening. I wish more people understood what they were getting into, and took time to consider all their options before just automatically enrolling in college upon finishing high school.

    Sorry about that test.
    You weren’t wrong, just being literal. That should’ve counted for something.

    I do appreciate your input re: the current dating world. Hope I don’t sound too childish, but it seems like a whole lot to take in. Definitely more than I would’ve assumed initially.

    Like

  99. Tarnished says:

    I don’t know. I think that you have something special with your FwB. He is your all time one and only. That counts for a lot.

    I know, and he knows.
    We are…still discussing it. He’s of mind that getting some dating experience, even without sex involved, would be good for me. Stretch boundaries and all that. I am not so sure. I do not want to waste anyone’s time, even if it’s just to share a half-paid meal with me.
    Maybe I would’ve thought differently 6 or 7 years ago, but after learning so much in the ‘sphere, I’m very cautious about this.

    Setting a limit prevents wasting time and money. It may not have to involve sex but, intentions should be clear by then.

    Yes, agreed.

    Liked by 1 person

  100. SFC Ton says:

    Yea it doesnt have to be sex; a blow job works same / same

    Liked by 1 person

  101. Tarnished says:

    Lol, Ton.

    I generally define “sex” as “mutually orgasmic/pleasure inducing activities”. So oral counts in my book, especially as I’d normally expect it returned.

    Liked by 1 person

  102. Tarnished says:

    And since I see my previous comment got a ‘Like’ from Cill, I’ll clarify that this definition would likely also include scalp/back/neck…um, “scritchings”?

    Whatever. Some of us know what I’m talking about. 😛

    Liked by 1 person

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