How “WGTOWs” are different from MGTOWs


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Over the course of this year, we’ve spoken much about the concepts of herd mentality, hypergamy, frivorce, and manbashing amongst women and how these traits work together to create the misandric but gynocentric system currently in place in North America and much of Europe. Indeed, Blurkel had this to say in his recent post;

It is thus with most young men. They have no idea that the sexy hottie buttering him up and fawning over his SMV is intending to take all he has – his name, his game, his fame (if any), his cash, his stash, his freedom, his hobbies, his control, and all of his choices. It all becomes hers as part of the promise she extracts from him to provide for her and “his” children. His role is then to reliably plod after that dangling carrot and bring home all it delivers in trade for the honor of being the “head of the household” (No title has ever been more of an oxymoron!), at least until he drops from the exertion. Then the life insurance payout had better be hefty! How else will she live in the style to which she has become accustomed?

There is little doubt held by the readers and commenters of our space that this is the life that awaits the Average Joe, courtesy of the wiles of Average Jane. But what if it wasn’t? What if enough women were “WGTOWs” that the War of the Sexes could reach a ceasefire agreement?

What is MGTOW?
For better or for worse, it is remarkably difficult to find a definition of Men Going Their Own Way. Not even MGTOW themselves have reached a consensus, much less the rest of the manosphere as a whole. But, we must try (if only so it can be referred back to for ease of discussion), so for the purposes of this post, I’ll be using a combination of the 3 responses from my MGTOW Survey from 2014.

Question 1: What does MGTOW mean to you?
Of 22 respondents, they said it’s:
-5 Adapting to social changes (23%)
-7 A necessary protective stance (32%)
-10 Living according to own standards (45%)

Making use of this information, we can craft a basic definition for MGTOW that encompasses all of the above qualities.
MGTOW is a lifestyle choice made by men who seek to reject, avoid, or reduce exposure to gynocentrism in Western culture. It is a way for a male to protect himself from the sexism that 2nd and 3rd wave Feminism and “social justice” acceptance have created towards men which create a male-hostile environment. Simultaneously, it involves throwing off the social expectations of marriage and receiving “value” based on opposite-sex praise that would impede his legal, financial, and personal freedoms.

So then what would a “WGTOW” be?
Obviously, it cannot simply be a mirror of MGTOW as females do not typically encounter the same legal dangers as males do, and never in equal measures. But I postulate that it can have similar goals to the MGTOW philosophy, which would aid in eliminating many of the issues brought to light within previous posts. Let us see how such a definition might look;
WGTOW is a lifestyle choice made by women who seek to reject, avoid, or reduce exposure to gynocentrism in Western culture. It is a way for a female to fight back against the sexism that 2nd and 3rd wave Feminism and “social justice” acceptance have created which create a female-victimhood environment. Simultaneously, it involves throwing off the social expectations of necessitating marriage and receiving “value” based on same-sex praise that would impede her personal freedoms and ability to think for herself.

Why is this important?
It is important to differentiate “WGTOWs” from other women based on two important factors. Like MGTOW, many had some sort of event occur in their life that made it possible to stop and think about our culture and how it seeks to victimize women whilst condemning men, and usually at once. Having sons and knowing they will have to be very cautious around women, knowing a woman who made a false rape/DV claim for some profit, realizing they received a lesser punishment for a wrongdoing than their male peers, noticing that they weren’t forced to register for Draft but all their male friends had to…these are but a few examples.

Now, you’re likely saying that many women go through these same experiences but do not change. Either they see no real issue with misandry, are so brainwashed that they don’t believe our system can be sexist against males, or actually revel in the fact that they…as a female…may use their biology to gain an upper hand. This is the second factor. “WGTOWs” both see and revolt against the concepts of female superiority and victimization inherent in Western culture. Despite what feminists would have you believe, this does not mean said women are weak, uneducated doormats content to be barefoot, pregnant servants to the men in their lives. Some do have a Captain/First Mate relationship and are Red Pill followwrs, but others are Purple Pill or egalitarian women that act as equals…and neither are unhappy in their roles or think they are “oppressed”.

Instead, they care about the mental, physical, emotional, and sexual health of their lovers, husbands, and boyfriends. They want to see their sons, nephews and grandsons succeed in life and love. They appreciate the good male role models from childhood, whether those men were fathers, uncles, grandfathers, or a teacher/neighbor. In other words, “WGTOWs” buck the current trend of fearing, bashing, or demonizing males simply because they are male.

What can be done to create more WGTOW?
This is where I turn to you. Obviously there are not many “WGTOWs” around. Whereas the general concept of Men Going Their Own Way can be found in both old and recent literature, it is rare (though not impossible) to find anything about Women Going Their Own Way. This is mostly due to the fact that the female of our species is typically more concerned about how the herd/her social group thinks of her than a male counterpart would. Yet as it stands, some do not. These are the true WGTOWs…women who use their intelligence and morals to make personal decisions regardless of what the herd believes…not the feminist version of “independent hear-me-roar womyn” that we all have seen.

So how do we create more women who are capable of thinking for themselves? Is it a matter of Nature, Nurture, or something in between?

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Posted in MGTOW, NAWALT, Tarn
177 comments on “How “WGTOWs” are different from MGTOWs
  1. Tarnished says:

    The original MGTOW survey, as referenced above, for anyone who wants to read it:

    https://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/2014/04/24/mgtow-survey/

    Liked by 2 people

  2. SFC Ton says:

    Creating more wgtow would require women to give a shit about men. Soooo I reckon if would take a miracle, act of God sort of thing or some gigantic jump in evolution or some other not going to happen series of events.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Farm Boy is brilliant at two line comments that make people think. It would take a lot of these.

    Like

  4. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    If going their own way would mean a celibate lifestyle for women, this would be a detriment to men. The sexual marketplace is distorted by more demand coming from men.

    Like

  5. Tarnished says:

    Scfton,
    Yet some women do care for men. Deeply, in fact. What of your own partners? Surely they “give a shit” about you, yes?

    Like

  6. Tarnished says:

    Not necessarily, Fuzzie.
    Remember, a woman who is “going her own way” isn’t declining male companionship. Instead, she is declining companionship with those that would tell her that AMALT, and those that seek to create unnecessary strife between the sexes. A lifestyle of celibacy doesn’t have to do with simply refusing to follow feminist doctrine…

    Like

  7. Tarnished says:

    I you mean FB and Yoda… 😉

    Like

  8. Any woman who approaches a man as a mere tool and draft horse is a fool. End of. Her loss.

    Liked by 2 people

  9. Men are the be all and end all of women. Women work hard to deny this, to their own doom. Better for a woman to be hopelessly smitten for a good man than alone and a SIW. . My 2 cents.

    Liked by 3 people

  10. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Bloom,
    Maybe I should do as Yoda does and watch a movie with lots of horses.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. JDG says:

    Does the proper pronunciation for WGTOW sound like WIGTOE?

    Any woman who approaches a man as a mere tool and draft horse is a fool. End of. Her loss.

    They also want a walking wallet and someone to take out their frustrations on. And don’t forget the fitness tests. These girls want to fitness test like I want to eat sammiches. They need a man for that.

    Liked by 2 people

  12. Yoda says:

    WGTOWs make sammiches they do?
    If so, make them for whom?

    Like

  13. JDG says:

    WGTOWs make sammiches they do?
    If so, make them for whom?

    For men I would hope. Otherwise whats the point?

    Like

  14. “They also want a walking wallet and someone to take out their frustrations on. And don’t forget the fitness tests. These girls want to fitness test like I want to eat sammiches. They need a man for that.”

    Sadly all too often true 😦

    Like

  15. BuenaVista says:

    It’s an interesting concept but one I have never seen developed in a live human. And reflecting, I’ve never seen ‘wgtow’ represented in any piece of popular or high art — which means (if I’m correct) that no one else has, either.

    (Perhaps Katherine Hepburn was one, in real life: she lived independently, her hetero LTR was with an alcoholic married to another woman, she was bisexual, made business decisions in her career others would not or could not. But I tend to think that women like that are able to live those lives because of extraordinary wealth. Thus the material concerns that corrupt the law and the cultures of the smp/mmp are moot, in their cases. The one woman I know who offered some wgtow attributes was capitalized by her divorce from a Hollywood guy, i.e., she was loaded because she got half in the divorce.)

    I’m skeptical we will ever see a wgtow, because we’re over the tipping point of legal/financial/parenting rule-making that provides too much control, cash and prizes to … one sex only. There’s no movement by even the most sympathetic female MRAs to roll back these laws and privileges; they just argue some mush about being nicer to the guys. No one gives up free options, and the State and the culture assign relationship optionality to … one sex only.

    Obviously there are women in search of men to be their one and only, and obviously some of them are loving and supportive of those men. As long as the men stay on their game. And as long as the men offer the promise of a better tomorrow than today.

    This blindness is true even with the mothers of boys who are entering adulthood. How many have even contemplated what their boys are facing? I talked to a friend yesterday, who is delivering an 18 year-old to his first year of college. She is a devoted, highly educated (Ph.D/MBA) and independent person, and she does like men. She’s clueless about the affirmative consent/false rape minefield her son is walking into. When I mentioned a few cases and the hows and whys of the current situation, she became annoyed. Women like the current situation and further their privileges within it.

    Anyway, it’s an interesting concept and such a unicorn would be appealing to me. My thought-game today will be trying to identify an example of such a wgtow-woman in literature or cinema or history.

    Liked by 2 people

  16. SFC Ton says:

    Who knows for sure Tarn? How long will they care if I am injured or turn even slightly beta?

    My girls are submissive and reject a large amount of feminism, for the now but their submission started off as a part time kink that later turned into a lifestyle but I reckon if I leave the picture in any part or am any less then I am, the FI will take over.

    My daughter has always stood by myself, her brother, uncles etc and is anti feminism but statistical anomalies are just that and of very little value at large

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  17. BuenaVista says:

    Meanwhile, our literature is rife with MGTOW-ish men. One of my favorite examples, and apropos Tarn’s epigraph, is Huck Finn. Huck concludes:

    “But I reckon I got to light out for the Territory ahead of therest, because Aunt Sally she’s going to adopt me and sivilize me, and I can’t stand it. I been there before.”

    If there, in fact, is an idealized male archetype in American literature and pop culture it is that of the MGTOW — the man alone on horseback, the wizened private eye, the spy who doesn’t come in from the cold, the drunken, willful poet or painter, Hank Williams singing “… don’t fence me in”, Clint Eastwood snarling “Get off my lawn.” It’s a speculation only, but perhaps one reason the feminist State is so hostile to men and masculinity today is that these are men who, unlike Judah, cannot be suborned and exploited. Their very model of living (“Shane …!!”) collapses the Temple of Gender Equality. So this historical notion — again, I refer to just about every heroic male figure in art, cinema, and literature — of male hegemony, of masculine leadership and autonomy, is profoundly dangerous to our brave new world.

    I’m probably a pretty extreme version of MGTOW; my life today is incomprehensible to the people I lived with and worked with three years ago. This life is very threatening to most everyone: they either think I’ve lost my marbles, or they are furious at my quiet demonstration that “No, I’m not going to be that guy any longer.” I think I hang with some pretty independent females, but all relationships proceed to points of conflict, where a man’s unwillingness to be locked down and re-installed in the harness generates tears, fears, and flashes of loathing.

    Liked by 2 people

  18. Liz says:

    “It’s an interesting concept but one I have never seen developed in a live human. And reflecting, I’ve never seen ‘wgtow’ represented in any piece of popular or high art — which means (if I’m correct) that no one else has, either.”

    There are numerous examples of women who remain single and childless throughout their lifetimes in literature, but they are not usually portrayed as the example for other women to emulate. A woman out alone on the prairie would be unlikely to fair as well as a man. But there have been examples of women who successfully ran ranches (just as there are examples of “successful” female pirates). Steinbeck’s East of Eden described a great-aunt spinster who set up a very successful business as a seamstress (at least initially, the business eventually failed with the end of the haute couture era and beginning of the age of the manufactured dresses). But really, couldn’t Cathy Ames be described as a WGHOW? She sure went her own way.

    Best (most respected) real life example I can think of is Florence Nightingale. But really, how is WGHOW any different from…say Mrs Smith? Isn’t she a WGHOW too, essentially?

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Tarnished says:

    Any woman who approaches a man as a mere tool and draft horse is a fool.
    Agreed. People are more than the utilities they provide (or don’t).

    Men are the be all and end all of women.
    Can you go into this more, Bloom?

    My daughter has always stood by myself, her brother, uncles etc and is anti feminism but statistical anomalies are just that and of very little value at large.
    Yes, but how could we go about making a statistical anomaly into a statistical majority?

    How long will they care if I am injured or turn even slightly beta?
    One would hope for a long time, especially after all the time you’ve spent living with and loving each other. This may be wishful thinking though, given the founding basis of the relationship (submissive kink turned lifestyle). Do they love you…or the display of you they’ve come to expect?

    WGTOWs make sammiches they do?
    If so, make them for whom?

    Lol. I always forget if our use of the word sammiches actually means “being a supportive partner” or “sex”.

    They also want a walking wallet and someone to take out their frustrations on. And don’t forget the fitness tests.
    A woman who is a WGTOW does not want this. She is an adult and may talk about her frustrations to her partner but will handle it herself. Fitness tests/shit tests are unnecessary since there is open communication on both sides and each person knows where they stand. She has no need of a walking wallet and, more importantly, never sees a man as one.

    Does the proper pronunciation for WGTOW sound like WIGTOE?
    Most likely. 🙂

    And reflecting, I’ve never seen ‘wgtow’ represented in any piece of popular or high art — which means (if I’m correct) that no one else has, either.
    I have many examples from books I’ve read, much like your example of Huck Finn. I can provide a list, if anyone would like…it has both regular novels and young adult novels.

    There’s no movement by even the most sympathetic female MRAs to roll back these laws and privileges; they just argue some mush about being nicer to the guys. No one gives up free options, and the State and the culture assign relationship optionality to … one sex only.
    This is perhaps the most disappointing trait of feMRAs. They speak not of overthrowing the status quo, but of keeping it and simply paying more lip service and/or pussy to men. They don’t fight for equality any more than feminists (Karen S is an exception, from what I’ve heard). Same as the Women Against Feminism…their goal is to keep men working on the plantation just in better conditions. A draft horse with a golden bridle is still a draft horse. It is unacceptable and I so very want there to be a group in my area that fights for REAL equality. 😦

    Liked by 1 person

  20. Tarnished says:

    But really, how is WGHOW any different from…say Mrs Smith? Isn’t she a WGHOW too, essentially?
    Forgive me if this is a typical pop culture reference, but who is Mrs Smith?

    But really, couldn’t Cathy Ames be described as a WGHOW? She sure went her own way.
    Goodness, no! She was a horrid, manipulative misandrist! She didn’t care about men as equals…in fact she used every male she came across. Ames is the opposite of a WGTOW; She didn’t buck the sexist system, she milked it for all it was worth.

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  21. Liz says:

    I remember telling my hairdresser back in college that I was getting married. She strongly admonished me and said marriage was a trap of the patriarchy and so forth. She lived as a lesbian, with another woman and her daughter. If I had followed her advice (or my mother’s) I would have never married (ie “sponged off a man”), had a great career (in a “man’s” occupation, most likely engineering), and lived as a WGHOW. I don’t think that would have made me happy, nor would I ipso facto like or understand men more because of that (if anything it’s the opposite case), nor would our sons have been born.

    Liked by 3 people

  22. Liz says:

    “Forgive me if this is a typical pop culture reference, but who is Mrs Smith?”

    SHe is one of BV’s “plates”.

    “But really, couldn’t Cathy Ames be described as a WGHOW? She sure went her own way.”
    Goodness, no! She was a horrid, manipulative misandrist! She didn’t care about men as equals…in fact she used every male she came across. Ames is the opposite of a WGTOW; She didn’t buck the sexist system, she milked it for all it was worth.

    She didn’t frivorce her husband, merely left him and her sons entirely alone and started and ran her own business. I dont’ see why her personal feelings about men matter. Aren’t the results the same? Her business catered to men and made them “happy”.

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  23. Tarnished says:

    My definition of WGTOW, again (may need some improvement):

    WGTOW is a lifestyle choice made by women who seek to reject, avoid, or reduce exposure to gynocentrism in Western culture. It is a way for a female to fight back against the sexism that 2nd and 3rd wave Feminism and “social justice” acceptance have created which create a female-victimhood environment. Simultaneously, it involves throwing off the social expectations of necessitating marriage and receiving “value” based on same-sex praise that would impede her personal freedoms and ability to think for herself.

    Nowhere does it say she must live alone on a prairie or mountaintop, remain childless her whole life, never marry or have a relationship with a man, etc. It’s not about being physically GTOW (many MGTOW don’t/can’t do this either). It’s about being of this world but not giving in to the temptations of herd-thinking, the role of victimization, or gynocentrism.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. BuenaVista says:

    Liz, I think your WGHOW examples reflect the traditional spinster model, in which a woman explicitly had to choose between a career and a romantic relationship. (Two of my forebears were these: one was the first psychiatric social worker west of the Mississippi; the other started the first women’s college in China. Neither married.)

    My understanding of the WGTOW model Tarn presents is that choice is not required. I’m unfamiliar with any iconic figure from American literature or culture who “had it all” while simultaneously remaining independent of the mainstream.

    No, Mrs. Smith is a feminist SIW, living fully within the governmental hive. She’s not WGTOW. And she wants to get married and have a child and work less, just like everyone else.

    Liked by 2 people

  25. Liz says:

    “It’s about being of this world but not giving in to the temptations of herd-thinking, the role of victimization, or gynocentrism.”

    That’s just being a free thinking individual, Tarn.

    Like

  26. SFC Ton says:

    Do women love without the “burden of performance” being meet? Isn’t a slam on women. Way I reckon things these are features not bugs and are evolutionary valuable. The flaw per say is not in the way women are made but the blue pill way of dealing with women, setting up a society, culture etc.

    The various version of the blue pill and blue pill conditioning keeps men from accurately planning out their lives and dealing with women and kids. A goodly measure of my life is set up to demonstrate performance. Working from home, training at home, killing a goodly portion of what we eat, built in overt dread game, intermittent outbursts of casual social violence, being more involved in other things then them. Most of that is a natural aspect of my life but somewhat modified. I’d rather not work on bikes here, or do the bar stuff here because distractions are easy to come by, yet I do because otherwise my performance in that area would be abstract. Same for training.

    I imagine as I age the burden of performance will continue to shift but it will always be there.

    In other words, women do not love the man as is otherwise the be yourself advice would work great for betas.

    I reckon the women like my daughter are a rare combination of genetic factors and life experiences. I am a nature over nurture minded man. Given that, the answer is you cannot create anymore such women then there is

    Liked by 1 person

  27. Tarnished says:

    I’m unfamiliar with any iconic figure from American literature or culture who “had it all” while simultaneously remaining independent of the mainstream.

    Iconic? I can’t think of any either. Most of the examples I have from literature aren’t on standard book lists.

    “Had it all” might be different per person though. If you’re looking for the typical definition of “having it all” aka a strapping provider husband + well behaved children + a career others drool over + whatever else is on the menu today…None come to mind. If you’re talking about literature with women who follow their dreams, fight for survival, or go against the grain of what society says they should be satisfied with/want, there’s numerous examples.

    Anne McCaffrey was exceptionally good at writing such female characters. Her books are geared towards young adults, so make for easy reading, but I highly recommend her as an author.

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  28. Liz says:

    Tarn, could you explain to me what a family would look like under the WGTOW model?

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  29. Tarnished says:

    That’s just being a free thinking individual, Tarn.
    Yes. But obviously it’s so rare nowadays that numerous men truly believe AWALT. Saying “I’m a free thinker” doesn’t make a direct statement against gynocentrism or misandry, either. Like I said…the term may need improvement. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  30. Tarnished says:

    I reckon the women like my daughter are a rare combination of genetic factors and life experiences. I am a nature over nurture minded man. Given that, the answer is you cannot create anymore such women then there is.
    There may be something to that, scfton. :/

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  31. Tarnished says:

    Tarn, could you explain to me what a family would look like under the WGTOW model?

    Perhaps. I can try, at least. 🙂

    A family under a WGTOW model would be a true partnership. Rather than a C/FM ship relationship, it’d be much like a 2-person business where 50% stock is held by each owner. Each person plays to their strengths and depends on the other to help with their weaknesses, but not necessarily what traditional gender roles say that should be. The male is not necessarily the provider…he may be a househusband IF that is what his strengths are. The female is not necessarily the domestic keeper…she may be the breadwinner IF this is where her strength is.

    There is no “wait till father gets home” because both parents make sure that the children understand they are children, and are to behave regardless of who is currently home. This also eliminates the male partner as a non-nurturing/solely disciplinary parent, and should help children to view fathers in a better light and a more well rounded role model.

    Sex would be had because the flame of desire is not allowed to dwindle into mere embers or go out. Lust for one another as a lover, partner, and sexual being is a part of the foundation of the relationship. Likewise, caring for the other’s mental and emotional state is stressed. While emotions aren’t denied, they also aren’t given free reign or allowed to influence major decision making.

    In relation to the manosphere, it is essentially a relationship in which the male partner doesn’t have to worry about false DV accusations, frivorce, losing contact with his children (either through divorce or due to working very long hours), or upholding notions of Game 24/7 to remain respected and loved by his female partner. Sex is not used as a tool…he is able to have moments of weakness without being seen as a weak person…he is under no obligation to be stereotypically masculine *unless* that is the real him.

    Sorry if this is a ramble, it’s very off the cuff and I know it doesn’t cover everything. I have to get ready for work now. If anyone has more input…

    Liked by 1 person

  32. SFC Ton says:

    Why the face? It is what it is

    I also reckon certain things like Patriarchy and tight social controls can impart a workable version of it. Which is why Patriarchy worked. It plugged women into the “team her man” role and did not allow them to step out of that role without paying a heavy price. Well one of the reasons why I worked.

    Look women bring a lot of important traits to the family, however those traits are not good when applied outside of the family. For men, it’s sort of th opposite

    And here I am talking about the run of the mill average Joe and Jane. The folks that make up the vast majority of any population, society, culture etc.

    Liked by 2 people

  33. Tarnished says:

    Also, and this is very important, I want to stress that this is NOT how every family/relationship absolutely should be. There are some men and women who would still be tradcons even if laws were 100% equal, and that is fine. I simply think that it should also be an option for men to find a woman who happily and willingly provides a shoulder to lean on just as much as he does.

    Liked by 1 person

  34. SFC Ton says:

    Tarn what you described is what feminism and other progressive programs promised to deliver and failed

    They failed like all utopian ideals because it is counter to human nature. For anything to succeed it must work with human nature, warts and all. And human nature has a shit ton of warts.

    Your utopianism makes it difficult to take you serious most of the time

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  35. Liz says:

    “Tarn what you described is what feminism and other progressive programs promised to deliver and failed”<—–this. Sorry, Tarn. What you describe is basically EXACTLY what the "progressive" model is supposed to be.
    Insert biological realities and it fails catastrophically.
    BIological realities aren't restricted to hypergamy and "-isms". Entire books have been written on why this model fails.

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  36. Tarnished says:

    That may be, scfton. For what it’s worth, I don’t think what I describe is feminism…as you say, look at what it has wrought. It is wrapped in a shiny veneer of “equality”, yet has only served to create a model of culturally supported sexism against boys and men.

    I realize that my beliefs make it difficult to take me serious. I encounter this on a near-daily basis, from men and women alike. But I can’t change who I am. I truly believe this *can* work, but lack the ability to figure out how.

    Humanity does have, as you put it, a shit ton of warts. Nobody can deny this. Yet there is great beauty, too. We are a species that has created the polio vaccine AND the iron maiden. We are responsible for the Holocaust AND rescuing the victims of 9/11. We have both bloodthirsty dictators AND unselfish saints among our ranks.

    It cannot…should not..be out of our grasp, these relationships I speak of.

    Have a good day, all.

    Liked by 2 people

  37. Liz says:

    Let’s just take your hypothetical house husband, living with provider wife and raising the kids at home. She decides she is no longer attracted to him and wants to get it on with a guy she is attracted to at work, and move in with him. What happens to the stay at home dad? Does he get alimony?

    Liked by 1 person

  38. Liz says:

    He has no work skills anymore because he was home with the kids. Now what is he supposed to do?

    Liked by 1 person

  39. JDG says:

    I also reckon certain things like Patriarchy and tight social controls can impart a workable version of it. Which is why Patriarchy worked. It plugged women into the “team her man” role and did not allow them to step out of that role without paying a heavy price. Well one of the reasons why I worked.

    Yep! Patriarchy is the most successful model I’ve seen that best utilizes the strengths and weaknesses of men and women. Patriarchy and sammiches.

    Liked by 2 people

  40. Liz says:

    “I truly believe this *can* work, but lack the ability to figure out how.”
    Tarn, respectfully, you also lack life experience. You don’t intend to be a parent and you’ve never experienced any of the difficulties associated with juggling work and family as either a single or married parent. I have. I’ve been a stay at home mom, a working mom, AND even a sole provider for a short time as a “single mom” (that year truly sucked ass…Mike was away on different training and education things so it was off and on with his salary and mine was the sole source of income for a few months).

    Liked by 1 person

  41. Liz says:

    Just to add, you also see the real-life results in your children from such life choices. That year I was the “single parent” was the worst year for being a parent. All sorts of disciplinary problems we’d never had before. I just didn’t have time to effectively deal with them, and Mike was never around.

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  42. Liz says:

    The great oppressor in all of this, as has been stated is: (drumroll) biology.

    Take a female PhD level chemist who does experiments on the bench. Say she’s awesome and even when she runs her own lab, she is still the most productive bench researcher in the group. But in that profession, as soon as you learn you are pregnant, you step back from the bench – the reagents, the radiation, etc. – and you shuffle papers. Two kids would be 2 lost years of work, and that lost production would probably cost a grant renewal. That’s just a normal pregnancy, not a high-risk one. Wash rinse repeat with all sorts of “cool” careers.
    Say they both work…well, SOMEONE’S career is going to take precedence. Either there’s one person who has to refuse to work extra hours and go on work trips, and can pick up the sick kid from the daycare, or no one can.

    Children change everything. And humanity dies without them.

    Liked by 2 people

  43. Liz says:

    Stepping off soapbox now.
    Have a good day, Tarn. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  44. BuenaVista says:

    “A family under a WGTOW model would be a true partnership. Rather than a C/FM ship relationship, it’d be much like a 2-person business where 50% stock is held by each owner. Each person plays to their strengths and depends on the other to help with their weaknesses, but not necessarily what traditional gender roles say that should be. The male is not necessarily the provider…he may be a househusband IF that is what his strengths are. The female is not necessarily the domestic keeper…she may be the breadwinner IF this is where her strength is.”

    This is what we were sold with feminism 1.0. It resulted in the present social chaos. I know, I thought I inhabited such a marriage.

    There are no WGTOWs in popular or high art that serve iconic roles in the culture for the same reason that the Fem 1.0 marriage is a myth. There aren’t any women like that, in marriages like that. Because they don’t want to be, and live, and love, like that.

    Liked by 1 person

  45. Tarnished says:

    There aren’t any women like that, in marriages like that. Because they don’t want to be, and live, and love, like that.

    Then perhaps I should reconsider my stance on singlehood, so that at least 1 man in this world has a marriage like that.

    Like

  46. Liz says:

    Without kids, you could probably have a marriage like that. If he doesn’t want kids, there shouldn’t be a problem.

    Liked by 1 person

  47. Liz says:

    Did your FWB ask you?

    Like

  48. Yoda says:

    say Mrs Smith? Isn’t she a WGHOW too, essentially?

    Spend her life making great pies she does?
    Good vocation this would be.

    Liked by 3 people

  49. Tarnished says:

    No, Liz. He wouldn’t do that…I’d have to start dating to find such a guy.

    Like

  50. BuenaVista says:

    She’d like to, I guess, Yoda. But she’s busy at the moment working in a world that rhymes with “pies.” And being erratic in her personal life.

    Liked by 1 person

  51. Liz says:

    Fries?
    So, she’s a fry chef? 🙂

    Liked by 3 people

  52. Liz says:

    I think there are a lot of men who would be up for a childless partnership to a truly “equalitarian” woman. Not Mike though.

    Liked by 1 person

  53. Liz says:

    I wanted him, so the terms I agreed to were: follow, and have kids.

    Liked by 2 people

  54. Tarnished says:

    That *was* quite a bit to digest, Liz!

    One thing I’d like to point out though, is that I was very instrumental in the raising of my younger siblings. In high school, my schedule M-F was to wake up at 5:45am, get myself ready for school, get them ready for school, bring them to and pick them up from the bus stop, make and pack their lunches, help with their homework, drive them to tutoring or after school activities. I was the one who held them in the bathroom during stomach flus, who signed their field trip requests, made sure their reports/projects were done on time, that they took their medicine and didn’t fight with each other…I realize this is not *all* there is to parenting, but as a friend of mine puts it, “I can see why you don’t want kids. You already were a mom.”

    Re: Single parenthood/alimony
    Of course the former househusband would get alimony. I think it would be preferable if both housewives and househusbands had work-from-home jobs or at least kept up as much as possible with their prior field though. True, some fields, you’re out for 2 years? Might as well be 2 decades. But not every job is like this, and it would be beneficial to the family as a whole for both parents to be capable of working…not even just cases of divorce, but ones where the main breadwinner loses their job, or ends up needing life-changing surgery, or (Gods forbid) suddenly dies. It isn’t always easy to be prepared for what life throws at you…but one can still be thinking of the future.

    And yeah, as I said before, not every relationship can be or should be like this. But if we can get more women to give a damn about their husbands, sons, lovers, etc…isn’t that by itself worth fighting for?

    Liked by 2 people

  55. Tarnished says:

    And if that works for you and yours (which it clearly does!) then that is spectacular, Liz. All I know is there are a decent number of good men who are strictly MGTOW because they don’t necessarily want to be a constant leader…then want someone to lean on, too. I can identify more with their way of thinking, hence my support for them over traditionalists or red pill marriages.

    Doesn’t mean a happy C/FM marriage with kiddies is not worth aspiring to. 🙂
    It definitely is.

    Liked by 2 people

  56. Choicy says:

    WGTOW is a lifestyle choice made by women who seek to reject, avoid, or reduce exposure to gynocentrism in Western culture. It is a way for a female to fight back against the sexism that 2nd and 3rd wave Feminism and “social justice” acceptance have created which create a female-victimhood environment. Simultaneously, it involves throwing off the social expectations of necessitating marriage and receiving “value” based on same-sex praise that would impede her personal freedoms and ability to think for herself.

    I know sheilas who fit your description of WGTOW apart from (a) they reject F1 as well (b) they do seek marriage and that might be where they part from your definition of WGTOW. I think they would prefer the Patriarchy if it still existed which it doesn’t.

    Liked by 1 person

  57. Tarnished says:

    Choicy,
    I really only included F1 due to the fact it helped (though was not solely responsible for) the creation of the 19th Amendment in the US, which made it unconstitutional to deny the right to vote based on sex. Of course, women had always been able to vote in certain states and counties of the US since it was a nation…so again, not entirely due to feminism. Take that, mainstream history books! 😛

    As I said to Fuzzie and others, WGTOWs of my definition wouldn’t be against marriage, only the idea that she *requires* marriage (aka lock down a walking wallet man) to have value as a woman.

    Do any of the women of whom you speak comment here perhaps?

    Like

  58. JDG says:

    I think they would prefer the Patriarchy if it still existed which it doesn’t.

    And we’re all worse off for it, but at least we still have sammiches. I just had a terrible thought. What if feminists outlaw sammiches?

    Like

  59. Liz says:

    Completely OT political joke I wanted to share:

    “Hillary Clinton finally turned over her home computer server to the FBI. She said the reason she took so long is because she accidentally deleted the subpoena.” – Jodi Miller

    Liked by 2 people

  60. BuenaVista says:

    Yeah, Liz. The only thing I like more than “fries” is something else.

    You’re the best, that’s really funny.

    Liked by 1 person

  61. BuenaVista says:

    Since the server was installed in a residential condo bathroom while containing “Top Secret” documents, at least it was wiped clean.

    Everybody flinches at skid marks.

    Liked by 1 person

  62. Yoda says:

    But she’s busy at the moment working in a world that rhymes with “pies.”

    Work in that world also I did.
    Screening for craziness a must it is.
    Very poor results we did have when this we did not do.

    Liked by 2 people

  63. Yoda says:

    Since the server was installed in a residential condo bathroom while containing “Top Secret” documents, at least it was wiped clean.

    Similar to here she was.
    Store data and make plans in the Water Closet we do.

    Liked by 1 person

  64. blurkel says:

    Men are the be all and end all of women.

    Still waiting for redpillgirlnotes to answer our requests to explain this thought in detail. I’d love to bounce her ideas off the women I know to see how they react!

    Then perhaps I should reconsider my stance on singlehood, so that at least 1 man in this world has a marriage like that.

    This would be a mistake, Tarn! A big one. You risk finding yourself resenting him if he doesn’t appreciate the sacrifice you made on his behalf.

    I’m not a huge believer in karma, as it has disappointed me far more than it has satisfied. But if you happen to encounter a man for whom you would end your singlehood, then you are making the change you propose for YOUR reasons. You cannot satisfy his needs if your own aren’t being met, and you can’t satisfy the needs of another if you don’t completely understand each other (children excepted – it’s part of the gig).

    Liked by 2 people

  65. Yoda says:

    Farm Boy is brilliant at two line comments that make people think.

    Taught him how to do this wonder you do?
    Hmmmm?

    Liked by 2 people

  66. Yoda says:

    Men are the be all and end all of women

    Perhaps explained by a society of all women degenerate into Lord of the Flies it would.
    Though much worse it would be.

    Liked by 2 people

  67. Tarnished says:

    You risk finding yourself resenting him if he doesn’t appreciate the sacrifice you made on his behalf.

    No worries, Blurkel.
    I wasn’t being serious…it’d take a lot more than a single post’s comments to turn me away from singlehood. 🙂

    And yes, that is one of the things that (if I’m being completely honest) makes me extremely cautious about being in a committed relationship. I give of myself too freely…my money, my time, my empathy. It would be far too easy for a manipulative man to take total advantage of this personality trait. Since I find joy in making others happy, it would probably take a while for me to realize I’m being used, too.

    Singlehood is safer, in many ways.

    Liked by 1 person

  68. blurkel says:

    Lord of the Flies would prove a picnic in the park compared to a society exclusively populated by women, Lord Yoda. A flock of hens would appear more civilized!

    Liked by 5 people

  69. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    JDG,
    “What if feminists outlawed sandwiches?”
    I think that they are more subtle. They would outlaw women making sandwiches for men and punish the men for violating. This would create a problem at Subway for female staff.

    I would like Bloom to come back too. I don’t think that she took my link to Marriage 2.0 too well. I have to admit that I am afraid. Once a man commits, the girl does have a lock.

    Tarn,
    You said it almost as a throwaway statement but, it should be responded to. At present, women do not respect men. They will only start to respect them when they realize they may have have to do without them. To se men as disposible when there is gender population parity is nuts. Lose a man and a woman will have to do without.

    Liked by 1 person

  70. Tarnished says:

    Fuzzie,

    Perhaps more people should read the graphic novel Y: The Last Man.

    Like

  71. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    I am still recovering from “A Boy and His Dog”.

    Like

  72. Tarnished says:

    Wait…the graphic novel, with Vic and Blood? Who the heck recommended that to you??? For crying out loud…did they tell you to read Plague Dogs and We 3, too?

    I hope you’re talking about something else, Fuzzie.

    Like

  73. Tarnished says:

    Blurkel,

    Neither sex can live without the other as a whole. As Liz said above, humanity would die out.

    And though I’m a bit of a misanthrope at times, I still have some desire to see us further evolve and succeed as a species.

    Like

  74. JDG says:

    JDG,
    “What if feminists outlawed sandwiches?”
    I think that they are more subtle. They would outlaw women making sandwiches for men and punish the men for violating. This would create a problem at Subway for female staff.

    fuzziewuzziebear – Perhaps they’ll prohibit males from eating at subways, but more likely they’ll want to abolish women making sammiches everywhere, including subways, no?

    Like

  75. Yoda says:

    Lord of the Flies would prove a picnic in the park compared to a society exclusively populated by women, Lord Yoda

    Master Yoda I would be.
    “Lord” reserved for villains it is

    Liked by 2 people

  76. Yoda says:

    They would outlaw women making sandwiches for men and punish the men for violating. This would create a problem at Subway for female staff.

    Look like this Jared of Subway would,

    Liked by 1 person

  77. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    This is what I was referring to.
    https://www.youtube.com/embed/wSPxGZadF2k?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent
    Since it’s a feature length movie, I’ll give a thumbnail spoiler. Boy and Dog can communicate telepathically. Dog finds food and boy gets it for both of them. Boy meets girl. Dog gets hurt and it’s either/or for Boy. In the last scene, Boy and Dog are walking and talking. No sign of Girl.

    Liked by 1 person

  78. Tarnished says:

    Spoiler From Novel!

    That’s because Vic (the boy) killed her and fed her to Blood (the dog). 😈

    Liked by 1 person

  79. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    JDG,
    I am not sure what the feminists would propose for relief of the female staff at Subway. One thing for certain, it would be clculatd to generate the maximum inconvenience to men.
    Take it that far, men might go home and make their own sandwich.

    Like

  80. Tarnished says:

    Didn’t know it was a movie…Seriously though, who recommended that for you to watch?

    Read Midnight Nation instead. It’s a beautifully written and illustrated book, filled with questions about the condition of the human soul…what it means to have one…and what’s worth giving yours up for. Very thought provoking and has a wonderful but unexpected ending.

    Like

  81. Tarnished says:

    Take it that far, men might go home and make their own sandwich.

    Many Japanese men do this already.

    Liked by 1 person

  82. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    Just so I am clear on this point, when I talk about sandwiches, I am talking about sandwiches. As Sigmund Freud said, “Sometimes a cigr is just a cigar.”
    I thought the whole point of discussing sandwiches was to equate them with acts of charity.

    Like

  83. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Completely off topic but, worthy of note.

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/christian-man-stabbed-on-busy-street-after-sharing-beliefs-on-homosexuality#./christian-man-stabbed-on-busy-street-after-sharing-beliefs-on-homosexuality?&_suid=143994459468705164175661581103

    It is curious that radicals are targeting Christians with violence. Two years ago, I was able to link a youtube video of a radical woman in Tennesee pushing a Christian preacher off a six foot retaining wall onto concrete. She prefaced this with a false sexual assault scenario. Her collegues carried her off like a football player who scored the winning touchdown in the big game. I heard she did get arrested and no further word.

    Like

  84. Tarnished says:

    I wish there was more info on this crime. When I googled it, the only news for recent stabbings in Ottawa were a woman who was killed and a father who fatally knifed his son. I keep tabs on religiously-oriented hate crimes, so it’s sad that only 1 site has anything about it thusfar. :/

    Regardless, people should be able to hold their convictions, even if others don’t agree with them. One doesn’t just go around harming those that disagree with you. It’s very easy to just not engage street preachers…just walk away!

    Liked by 1 person

  85. SFC Ton says:

    We no longer evolve; we change the environment to suit us

    Liked by 2 people

  86. Tarnished says:

    Yes, though this is probably a detriment. Eventually our environment will change without our input, and I wonder where we’ll be then.

    Like

  87. SFC Ton says:

    Thinking of ways to engineer things to our profit

    Liked by 1 person

  88. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    The only time that I entertains such fantasies was in the 70s. The Hare Krishnas in the airports were everywhere.

    A way was found.

    Liked by 1 person

  89. Tarnished says:

    Lol. Touché.

    Like

  90. SFC Ton says:

    Money(power) and ass (power is how men get ass) drives the world

    Like

  91. Tarnished says:

    Mostly, yes. You are correct.

    Like

  92. JDG says:

    Take it that far, men might go home and make their own sandwich.

    Some already are, and the women are missing out on great opportunities. Feminist women have a pain but don’t know its name. With out sammich making, what kind of protection will these women have against their hamsters?

    Like

  93. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    SFC Ton,
    I saw that movie too. It didn’t work too well inh Scarface and, as for thye real world, Pablo Escobar went down in hail of lead twenty years ago.

    Like

  94. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    JDG,
    There are no restrictions on their hamsters. When scandals like Rotherham come out and they don’t protest. When msnspreading, street harrassment, and protests over beach bodies are the norm. They have started to lose it.
    Someone once descibed feminism as a society wide shit test. He is being made more correct with each passing day.

    Liked by 1 person

  95. JDG says:

    fuzziewuzziebear – With all the pooping going on with these tests it’s no wonder western societies are turning into sewers. What kind of sammiches do they have in sewers?

    Like

  96. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    JDG,
    I don’t want to think about it. Yeeeeccchhh!
    On a serious note, what would the fembots do if we publicized their antics so that the world would laugh at them?

    Like

  97. JDG says:

    I’m not sure how much of the western world would laugh. They’re mostly feminists. Most of the non-western world is already laughing. Little do they realize that feminism is being exported to them through strings attached to US foreign aid.

    Can someone tell me why else a country would borrow millions of dollars from one country while at the same time give millions of dollars away to other countries? Putting a stop to world wide sammich making is expensive.

    Liked by 2 people

  98. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    JDG,
    You just told me something that scares me. Not only US aid but UN< EU, and all the NGOs come with feminist strings. If it doesn't collapse soon under the weight of its own absurdity, we will be stuck with it.
    India is a good example.

    Like

  99. SFC Ton says:

    LOL you think that only applies to the criminal world fuzzie?

    What’s the joke? Men would live in cardboard boxes if they could do it and get laid

    Pablo had a lot and I mean a lot of kids (iirc) so it did work for him; scar face is fiction an pointless

    Like

  100. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    SFC Ton,
    I have spent most of my life accomodating women. It doesn’t work. Should you fulfil one criteria, they, collectively, come up with a new one.
    I just got through watching this video.

    She mentions a “Munk Debate” wherein the premise that “Men Are Obsolete” was carried by an all woman panel. Only Camille Paglia spoke in opposition.
    This deserves a two word response.

    Like

  101. Yoda says:

    “Men Are Obsolete”

    Who do STEM jobs they will?

    Like

  102. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    I don’t think that all female city being built in Saudi Arabia will ever be completed. It goes well beyond STEM jobs, There is infrastycure maintenece. Who will take away the trash? It’s time to feed their vanity with reality.

    A couple of years ago, Rollo predicted the death of feminism on SSM’s blog with a one liner. It would happen when women realized that it stood in conflict to the Feminie Imperative. I am impressed with his ability to see ahead. Posted today, he calls it.

    http://therationalmale.com/2015/08/19/peak-hypergamy/

    The marketplace can’t be irrational forever.

    Liked by 1 person

  103. blurkel says:

    @tarnishedsophia

    Neither sex can live without the other as a whole. As Liz said above, humanity would die out.

    Biologically correct. However, this is a worry only in “advanced” nations. In lands where economic conditions are much more survivalist, breeding continues unhindered by the extremist feminism which has tainted the wealthier nations. Too worried about finding sammich fixin’s to care about radical feminism!

    And though I’m a bit of a misanthrope at times, I still have some desire to see us further evolve and succeed as a species.

    This won’t happen until greed is seen as a mental illness and treatments are derived to limit the harm done to the rest of us.

    Liked by 2 people

  104. JDG says:

    Without men, civilization would cease to exist. Even if women could reproduce on their own, they would perish without men. Those women who think men are obsolete are seriously delusional. Here you see what a life time of not making sammiches can do to a woman.

    Liked by 4 people

  105. Yoda says:

    I don’t think that all female city being built in Saudi Arabia will ever be completed.

    Toilet seats glued down they are.

    Liked by 2 people

  106. SFC Ton says:

    LOL like eliminating greed worked out well in the ussr etc. Human nature is human nature.

    Like

  107. Liz says:

    “Who do STEM jobs they will?”

    With that much unrestrained estrogen in the world, this would be the last of our problems. We’d be better off getting hit by a world-wide EMP.

    Like

  108. Tarnished says:

    It’s not even just a matter of that. If we as a species want to keep growing/adapting *at all*, we need both sexes.
    There was a woman, Maureen Dowd I think her name was, who wrote a book called Are Men Necessary? that was absolutely drivel. I was offended by it just as much as some of the ancient philosophies stating that women are nothing more than defective males. At least the texts from bygone eras had yet to discover the intricacies of reproduction…Dowd and her literary accomplices were just being feminazis.

    Anyway, there was a chapter dedicated to discussing the Y chromosome, and how it was “dying out”. Balderdash. It is not. Yes, the Y has less information than the X and is thus more likely to carry sex linked disorders…but it’s also necessary for changes. The X provides health and stability, the Y ensures we do not become a stagnant species. The idea that we could get by on any long term span without either chromosome is folly, the wishful thinking of idiots.

    Liked by 2 people

  109. Liz says:

    This is pretty funny. McDonalds “goddess” in Thailand:

    Imagine the squawking if they tried to get women to wear high heels and shortish skirts at the McDonalds here.
    The slut marchers would leave their protest in front of Chick-fil-a and put on some dungarees to protest in front of the McDonalds over “sexual harassment”.

    Liked by 2 people

  110. Liz says:

    Whoa…I had no idea that link would result in a document that large. Could someone fix that? Is it fixable?

    Like

  111. Yoda says:

    unrestrained estrogen

    Make note of this term I will.
    Short and descriptive it is.

    Liked by 3 people

  112. Yoda says:

    None of the women I know who don’t approach their man this way are happy. Nor are their men.

    Odd that people seemingly desire to be happy not.

    Liked by 4 people

  113. Tarnished says:

    Women should be spoiling the heck out of their men!

    How does one ensure they will be “spoiled” in return, and not simply taken from? As wise Blurkel cautioned me above, this can lead to resentment in a relationship. I know how it works for the little bit of relationship I have (my FwB is kind enough to reign my giving side in/remind me I’m never obligated to do the things I do for him but still thanks me). How does it work in a marriage setting where you’ve agreed to a committed lifetime together?

    Like

  114. Well tarn I suppose it’s about picking the “right kind” of guy. I have found the ones who don’t return good treatment do not make good partners. Beware the self absorbed narccisists wo just take, take, take.

    Liked by 3 people

  115. Tarnished says:

    It would seem that it comes down to being aware at all times, not letting down ones guard til trust/unselfishness is proven by actions instead of repeated with mere words, then. Hence why skilled manipulators are so dangerous…

    Liked by 2 people

  116. BuenaVista says:

    Well, don’t spend time with those who do not consistently treat you with reciprocal kindness and respect.

    But there’s no way to “ensure” they’ll stay the same.

    Liked by 5 people

  117. Tarnished says:

    Heh. Very true. “Lost” a lot of family members that way, BV.

    Liked by 2 people

  118. Liz says:

    “Interesting girl and of course adorably cute, literally busting out of her clothes! Ah to be young again…”

    Lol Bloom. I’ve never been a very “bouncy” chick. But we have a friend whose son (18) is dating a girl I just met the other day (also 18).
    Very bouncy. It was impossible to look at this girl and not think of sex. I mean, I was thinking of sex looking at this girl. She was like a fertility goddess. Mike and I agreed it’s good not to have daughters (sorry Bloom :-P). I mean, every single man this girl is ever in the room with (priests, school teachers, anyone and everyone) is surely thinking about having sex with her. It can’t be unseen/unthought…it’s just there! Like Kate Upton. 😛

    Liked by 4 people

  119. Tarnished says:

    The Curse of Bounciness, this is. Prevents most men and lesbians from looking one in the eyes, it does. 😓

    Liked by 3 people

  120. Tarnished says:

    Overly large shirts a blessing, they are. But make one look “frumpy” they do. Dilemma this is. 😛

    Liked by 1 person

  121. Tarnished says:

    One of my coworkers is not happy about his 13 year old daughter’s new “developments”…She’s very much a tomboy and usually dresses as such, but wore a more fashionable sundress on a field trip recently. He saw her pictures on Facebook and was “lamenting” how his little girl is growing up so fast.

    It does seem daughters have their own set of parental issues.

    Liked by 2 people

  122. BuenaVista says:

    On bouncy, there are two high school girls who train at my gym. They are both elite (for their small-town environs), so fit, strong, move like lanky goddesses. They are both Nordic, 5’11” – 6’0″, 15, with legs that go up to their chests, and they wear skin tight briefs (those volleyball ‘shorts’ that basically are just granny pants-briefs that stop at the bottom of their butts, so you can see all 38″ of leg). They’re dripping youthful fecundity: Kate Upton without the huge knockers and soft waist. I mean, I keep my eyes on the floor. They seem utterly un-self-aware.

    I asked my coach, “Jeez, do all the girls dress like that now? This is some dangerous shit.”

    Yep, they do, he said.

    Liked by 3 people

  123. Tarnished says:

    This is some dangerous shit.
    How? 😕

    Like

  124. It’s true Liz and BV. Girls that age remind me of colts, all legs. She’s adorable. But why. She doesn’t have a lot of confidence, which is sad. She mentioned her mom was not nice… I am sure I will learn more.

    Tarn my mom schooled me not to “spoil” a man or “you’ll create a monster.” I see what folly that is now. Especially after seeing via my babysitter’s culture how well it works. I plan to spoil my man thoroughly from here on. When I have one, that is. And I’ll choose carefully. I am looking forward to it! Also it’s not about getting spoiled in return, but I plan to be so dang awesome to him, how could he not? 😀 win win!

    Liked by 4 people

  125. “This is some dangerous shit” I believe BV means these young girls are unaware (or maybe completely aware) of their power. It’s probably a good thing if they don’t know. It’s like kryptonite. The gloriousness. I can see it in my oldest now. I need to get that tower built ASAP! She’s going to be a stunner…

    Liked by 2 people

  126. * but shy, not but why

    Like

  127. Liz says:

    “Tarn my mom schooled me not to “spoil” a man or “you’ll create a monster.”

    My mom schooled me not to marry a man I’m attracted to or desire to have sex with.
    “You stop having sex anyway…”
    I assume she wanted me to marry a person who could never get laid so I’d have total power over him and he would not have any over me (all while of course working on that great career…easy to do without children and money is everything, apparently).

    Liked by 2 people

  128. Choicy says:

    We could ask a couple of the sweetie sheilas on this blog how they cope with it all mate. Molly and Cillhouette and any of that mob could tell us a thing or two about when they go for a swim in public. There are traffic jams and people stop walking or whatever they are doing and they gawk as if they are looking at Jesus walking on water. It pisses this digger off something terrible, mate.

    Liked by 3 people

  129. Yeah tarn I’d say our mom were getting it entirely wrong! That generation…not sure what went wrong there.

    With a good man you can allow yourself to let go, get lost in him, make him beautiful sammiches, eagerly wait for him to get home, snuggle up to him all night, be liberal w the lovin’, take joy in putting his clean fluffy socks all lined up in the drawer. Women should be lovesick for their guy! It’s as easy to be in this mindset as it is to be a frugal lover, and far more enjoyable and fun. I mean that’s the good stuff! 😀 why would you not revel in your man? Yum!

    Liked by 4 people

  130. Cill says:

    “his clean fluffy socks all lined up in the drawer”

    Sheer bliss…

    Liked by 3 people

  131. I may be ovulating. I should probably be quiet now. Lol. Shhhhh

    Choicy I am still a looker but at 19, holy smokes! I was busting out all over the place in a most distracting way. I was embarrassed by the attention. I get it. I didn’t dare wear a bikini, always a one piece, and usually w a t-shirt over that, and I was still stopping traffic! I wish I had taken photos now, darn it. Lol. I still get plenty of guys checking me out, which still takes me by surprise, but luckily not to that overwhelming degree like when I was 19. Too much!

    Liked by 3 people

  132. Oops I mean Liz, not tarn!

    Like

  133. Choicy says:

    I remember one time in the shaky isles I saw a beautiful sheila crying while she ironed her man’s shirt. I melted like a chocolate firescreen, my mates. I’m fairly sure I’m not talking out of turn when I say she would get her love back with interest, mate.

    Liked by 6 people

  134. Tarnished says:

    I do enjoy a good revel… 😉

    Liked by 3 people

  135. Cill says:

    … in what?

    Liked by 1 person

  136. Liz says:

    I think Tarn meant rebel?

    Like

  137. Liz says:

    I’m not sure if I’m the rebel, but really all I did was fall in love. Mike sorted out the rest.
    😛

    Liked by 4 people

  138. Tarnished says:

    In everything! You know how it is…you want to please him, and he wants to please you, and it just keeps going in a glorious cycle from there.
    It’s easy to give to one who gives back. There’s no reason to keep score when you’re obviously both winning. 💙

    Liked by 3 people

  139. Tarnished says:

    Nah, revel. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  140. Tarnished says:

    Re: Bloom’s comment 32 min ago

    Like

  141. Choicy says:

    You lovely sheilas keep talking like this and I will linger here although it’s not far away from 2 in the morning in the great southern land. Keep talking my pretty mates…

    Liked by 3 people

  142. Cill says:

    I agree with you 100% Choicy mate, you and your silky Aus tongue.

    Liked by 2 people

  143. Cill says:

    Heh heh. I knew that, Tarn. I just wanted to hear you say it. 😉

    Liked by 2 people

  144. Cill says:

    Choicy you might have killed the thread, mate.

    Like

  145. Choicy says:

    One more sweet nothing is all I wish before I retire for the night..

    Liked by 1 person

  146. Cill says:

    Sorry Choicy, looks like you’ve blown it, mate. You’ll just have to make do with the house Wombat.

    Liked by 1 person

  147. Tarnished says:

    I know it, Cill. 😉
    It is true, though. I don’t mind (in fact, I enjoy) buying little gifts for my love, simply *because* he says thank you…and means it. Even though he doesn’t buy me things nearly as often, it’s offset by his genuine appreciation for what I do. 🙂

    So different from the family members and fair-weather friends of years past, who are only kind/have time for you so long as you’re *actively* doing stuff for them!

    What is something that people here found their SO truly appreciated?

    Liked by 1 person

  148. Tarnished says:

    Or, lacking an SO, what is something that you’d like a future partner to do for you just because?

    Like

  149. Tarnished says:

    Lol. House wombats give free toe nibbles, I hear. Much like how Vader gives free throat hugs…

    Liked by 1 person

  150. Sorry I was taking a shower and making lunch. Sweet nothing’s choicy! May you find a Sheila who cries with joy while ironing your lovely shirt! May we all find it!

    And yes tarn, revel. With abandon. That’s the good stuff!

    Where are the shaky isles?

    Liked by 1 person

  151. Tarnished says:

    What are you making for lunch? Got any homemade preserves?

    Like

  152. One should not hold back in love. A mistake I have made myself. It’s like bringing a teaspoon to a waterfall instead of a 10 gallon bucket. Why? But people do. I think they feel its safer, somehow. But it’s not. It does the opposite – attracts what one fears to most in love, loss. Stingy love kills love. Abundant love grows love.

    Liked by 4 people

  153. Choicy says:

    The “shaky isles” is Godzone, the Land of the Long White Cloud, a.k.a. home of Cillo and other outlandish things mate.

    Liked by 1 person

  154. Actually it was more like brunch, leftover steak fried up with potatoes and eggs. I do have homemade preserves but didn’t have toast. Maybe later today…. I know, I should bake my killer no knead bread!

    Liked by 2 people

  155. Choicy says:

    Goodnight my sweet mates. You too Cillo.

    Liked by 2 people

  156. Cill says:

    “What is something that people here found their SO truly appreciated?”
    Why, when I ravished her of course 😈

    Liked by 5 people

  157. Liz says:

    Night night Choicy. 🙂

    Tarn: “What is something that people here found their SO truly appreciated?”

    Trying to think on this one…Mike likes surprises (like, a treat or candybar or something…depends on the diet though, sometimes he doesn’t eat sweets). Sometimes I leave little notes on the car/fridge/ his computer and so forth. I’m pretty good at anticipating his needs…like, when things start to run low I buy them (things he uses, I check). When he worked closer to the house, I would sometimes bring in a “surprise” (lunch or treat or something). Most of the things I do that he likes, though, are kind of related to my appearance and nooky. 😛 I always wear things he likes around the house, when he is home…if I’m wearing sweats or shorts he doesn’t like, for example, I’ll run and change into something he likes more, before he gets home.

    Liked by 4 people

  158. Cill says:

    “search his pockets”
    A woman takes a b-i-i-g risk when she does that with me. She stands close and puts both her hands in my pockets at the same time. To do this she must press against me somewhat and I look down on her nice hair as she inquisitively looks to see what I’ve got…

    Liked by 3 people

  159. Liz says:

    Lol. 🙂

    Do they find their precious in your pocketses, Cill?
    I’m totally going to do this when Mike gets home. Where is my precious?….oh! It’s in his pocketses. There it is!
    (we watch a great deal of Lord of the Rings at our house, as you can probably guess). 😉

    Liked by 2 people

  160. Cill says:

    Liz you will get

    Look out babe I’m comin to get you one more time…

    GOIN HOME
    MA BAYBAY!!
    GOIN HOME
    MA BAYBAY!!
    GOIN HOME! HOME! HOME! HOME! HOME!

    Liked by 2 people

  161. Cill says:

    Check out the Ten Years After video at 6:50 ff. Do it NOW
    … and wait for the words
    Look out babe I’m comin to get you one more time…

    Liked by 3 people

  162. SFC Ton says:

    It is an epicly bad idea to spoil women. Reckon most of the firovrced men tried that route…..yea yea yea nawalt…. and I have some.scrap metal in Paris to sell you

    Liked by 4 people

  163. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    SFC Ton,
    About the scrap metal in Paris, there is a guy who tried that twice.

    Like

  164. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz and Bloom,
    It hasn’t happened here but it does on Christian sites, someone has sons and another has daughters. Hmmmmm….. While Liz’s sons may be too old for the Bloomettes, it is a good thought.

    Bloom,
    You really want a companion! That is a good thing!

    Tarn,
    About Maureen Dowd, feminism in her era was blatantly hateful to men. I don’t think it has gone away. It’s just gone underground and understated. How else can an all women panel see men as obsolete?
    I think the man hate had to be glossed over to appeal to the mainstream. Now that feminism is losing mainstream appeal, it will come to the fore.
    I woke up today realizing that and I didn’t hurt as much.

    Liked by 3 people

  165. Cill says:

    Onya Fuzzy

    Liked by 1 person

  166. Tarnished says:

    Cill asked this a while back, and I don’t think anyone other than myself (kind of) responded;

    Have any of our male commenters had experience with direct/blatant misandry via an American/UK woman?
    Not just someone being a regular bitchy or rude person…those types are everywhere and in both sexes. I mean an actual misandrist who used your maleness as an excuse to act against you.

    Like

  167. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    Not directly nor blatantly. It’s there but not fully exposed. The culture is soaked in it. That’s why miners die in accidents and not men.

    Liked by 2 people

  168. Cill says:

    Strewth I hate to interrupt such a great post here, but FWIW my sister and cuz have published a new post Narcissism – can Women Love without it?

    Liked by 1 person

  169. Cill says:

    Catching up on comments. Liz, the Thai “goddess” at 19 August, 2015 at 2:27 pm is not my idea of sexy. She’d be sexy to paedophiles, I guess. If I had a choice between an older woman and a child, I’d choose the older woman every time.

    Liked by 3 people

  170. SFC Ton says:

    I sooooo want to pull off a classic con like that Fuzzie

    Liked by 1 person

  171. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    SFC Ton,
    Sell the salvage rights to the Eiffel Tower? That was possible then as it was only expected to be a temporary structure. It’s fun to think about but, I can’t even play poker.

    Liz,
    The Taipei “Goddess” is cute but not my cup of tea either. She reminds me of an anime character made real with those large eyes.
    I never thought of Chinese as being attractive until I saw Michelle Yeo.

    Since you were the one who broke the news, here’s a follow up article about Ashley Madison. I guess the company wouldn’t cave in to extortion, so the hackers released the data. I wonder if the FBI is after the bad guys? That business was worth $100 million.

    http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/the-mind-bending-messiness-of-the-ashley-madison-data-dump/ar-BBlSTRQ?ocid=iehp

    Like

  172. Re Ashley Madison, well if one plays w fire they might get burned. This is not a new lesson…

    Like

  173. Liz says:

    Cill: “Liz, the Thai “goddess” at 19 August, 2015 at 2:27 pm is not my idea of sexy. She’d be sexy to paedophiles, I guess.”

    She’s definitely NOT the “fertility goddess” prototype. 🙂

    Like

  174. SFC Ton says:

    That girl would probably be very pretty for an Asian if she wasn’t going out of her way to cultivate that weird doll look. 1st time I saw that was in Japan and I thought it was a sales gimmick/kind of funny. Then I found out it was a lifestyle……not sure what I think about that one

    Like

  175. SFC Ton says:

    Also been tempted to from the start to say….

    The difference between WGTOW & MGTOW is…. women have vaginas and men have penises.

    When you think about it, that is the fundamental difference.

    Liked by 1 person

  176. SFC Ton says:

    To answer Tarn’s question, my wife, mother etc and a goodly number of women I dated in the immediate post divorce period.

    Then it was the vast majority of women being ok with me as a man but not men in general. Probably makes up 80% of the women out there. 19% are the .ore hateful kind. Reckon less then 1% actually like men as men all the way around vs liking men as the tingle generator

    Women do not like men much. This also seems to be the historical norm

    Like

  177. BuenaVista says:

    Marriage counseling, family law, family courts, CPS, schoolteachers and school administrators, child psychologists: these are a few of the domains where a man will find himself the subject of hateful, contemptuous, and triumphalist misandry. These people, further, have power and make their own rules. Maleness per se is disqualifying. Many of them view children as requiring protection and separation from their fathers, while making policy (e.g., in a school) that expressly overrules parental authority.

    Like

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