The Difficulty of Being Pleasant

Recently Dalrock brought up the issue of pleasantness in women.  The main assertion of the post is that women know that being of pleasant disposition is appealing to men; and because of this, they are not willing to do it.  Assuming that this is correct, why would this be?

First, let us consider effort.  Is it more difficult to be pleasant than unpleasant?  Speaking for myself, I find it easier to be pleasant.  Sometimes there is a compelling need to be unpleasant, and I find that more effort is required to be this way.  But then, other people seem to be naturally unpleasant; and apparently do so effortlessly.  Perhaps this all depends on the style of person that you were raised to be.  And perhaps modern women are raised to have their inner bitch never far from the surface. Maybe commenters can chime in on this.

Secondly, there is the what I want to project aspect.  Women might believe that being unpleasant equates with power; and in some situation this might the case.  But for women time immemorial, the effective use of pleasantness typically equates more to power.  But perhaps it is the trappings of power that women desire from their unpleasant projections.  Maybe an element of the bad-ass attitude of bad-boy types.  In this case, it is all very unbecoming; and as a famous writer once sort of said, “She doth protests to much”.  Short answer — women look silly doing this (as do lots of bad-boys).

Thirdly, there is probably an element of convince myself that I am a SIW happening.  Well, if posturing is what you need to convince yourself, then perhaps you could use some introspection.

Lastly, they want to stick it to the man.  Oddly enough, this is often their man.  Here is a clip that captures the essence of this thinking,

So why would a woman marry a man if the goal was to stick it to him?  It would almost be as if they do not understand marriage.

To summarize, unpleasant women are not really doing themselves, their husband (if they have one), or society any favors by being this way.  And perhaps if they try, unpleasant women can mend their ways, expend less effort, and be more content.

Posted in FarmBoy, Feminism, HowTo
116 comments on “The Difficulty of Being Pleasant
  1. Cill says:

    I guess the unpleasant women you are talking about are Americans. I met an American bitch, as I said in the last post, but she wasn’t really deliberately unpleasant. “Bitch” and “unpleasant” are not synonyms.

    I’ve visited the USA many times and at some point I probably encountered unpleasantness but not enough to stick in my memory and I can’t remember any unpleasantness directed at me because of my gender. I’m not talking about the hostility of the legal system and the universities etc etc toward men. I’m talking about everyday one on one interaction.

    Mine is just one visitor’s experience of your huge country. You blokes who live there, is the unpleasantness as widespread and deliberate as the post would indicate?


  2. Cill says:

    Wee Meddy the medicine ball is running around the place now. He follows me and doesn’t stop moving unless I pick him up. He goes to sleep on the floor and Dog flops down with him as protection. Dog accepts him because he’s used to seeing me carry him around. Wee Meddy is the best.

    Liked by 4 people

  3. Sumo says:

    I can empathize. I find it quite difficult to be pleasant, too.

    Liked by 1 person

  4. Tarnished says:

    Is it more difficult to be pleasant than unpleasant?
    No. At least for me, it’s actually quite difficult to be unpleasant. Unfortunately, like many INTJs I have the “glare”, and actually have to remind myself to look pleasant instead of like I want to murder people. So, I constantly play Weird Al songs and Monty Python skits in my head whilst out in public. 😛

    Secondly, there is the what I want to project aspect.
    This is an issue sometimes. When you look and act pleasant, people are prone to taking advantage of you. Also, I don’t know if this happens to anyone else here, but random strangers in grocery stores or malls seem more likely to walk up and talk to you when you’re looking up pleasantly.

    I’ve heard from women that they’ll purposefully wear a frown or bitchy face when using public transportation in an attempt to avoid male attention, too.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Tarnished says:

    You blokes who live there, is the unpleasantness as widespread and deliberate as the post would indicate?

    Some of the guys over at Black Pill’s blog have horror stories of dealing with bitchy women that just make me want to cry.

    Liked by 2 people

  6. Cill says:

    If people are unpleasant with me I find it very easy to be unpleasant back. I frighten people at such times, actually.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Tarnished says:

    Cill, if you’re around someone who’s unpleasant, do you find that you can tell by their taste-feel? Like before they even speak or act?

    Liked by 1 person

  8. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Could Dog and Wee Meddy be watching youtube videos wheen you’re not looking?

    Liked by 2 people

  9. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Farm Boy,
    I think the unpleasantness schtick is about setting oneself up as a SIW. However, this backfires socially. Who wants to be around unpleasant people?

    Liked by 2 people

  10. SFC Ton says:

    Women tend to have a zero sum gain mentality. In this case other people can only be happy, powerful etc at their expense and if others are happy it some robs them of their happiness

    Really you find that attitude in all of yhe various professional victim classes

    Unpleasantness in the usa; meet very few pleasant yankees, even fewer sewer…… I mean city dwellers who are pleasant Think it all depends on the local. If I never meet any one from New York, New Jersey or Massachusetts again I’ll consider my life blessed beyond all good fortune

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Cill says:

    Tarn, “you can tell by their taste-feel”
    Yes, and it’s never wrong. You’re the only other person I’ve come across who can do the same.

    People use facial expressions, tone of voice, body language, and of course words to disguise their true feelings or intent. In a social setting we might smell a woman’s intense interest in a man, but see and hear her trying hard to hide it. People who can smell emotions have a big advantage. It’s never wrong. We are easier to fool remotely (e.g. online or over the phone) than in person.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Someone brought up “bitchy resting face” and there is something to it. Recently, Jessica Valenti wrote about how she is given lwss attention when she goes out. It may not be that she is ove 35, it may be the bitchy resting face.
    And , yes, maintatining that unpleasantness does form the basis for the proverbial “bitchshield”.


  13. Tarnished says:

    Cill, that is part of the reason for my social awkwardness. When someone’s taste-feel is saying one thing…but their body language is saying another…and yet more dissonance is evident in their words, it is highly confusing. How is one to know which is okay to respond to?

    This is why basic communication with nonhumans is far easier at times…

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Cill says:

    Words and body language can lie. Smell can’t. It’s like someone farting and then saying “no I didn’t”


  15. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Animals are pretty straightforward.


  16. Cill says:

    Horse is fairly straightforward. Dog is a bit mixed up because he had a hard life before I met him. He’s a bit too much of a one man dog and he’d be dangerous with newcomers or strangers.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Yoda says:

    Who wants to be around unpleasant people?

    Good question this is.
    Just visited my oldest sister I did.
    An unpleasant SIW she would be.
    Done the visit is.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Yoda says:

    Married to dog you are?


  19. Yoda says:

    Not just about facial expression it is.
    About tone, topic and word selection it also would be.


  20. Yoda says:

    Recently, Jessica Valenti wrote about how she is given lwss attention when she goes out. It may not be that she is ove 35, it may be the bitchy resting face.

    After that age bitch shield morphs into cloaking device it does.

    Liked by 2 people

  21. Yoda says:

    Animals are pretty straightforward

    Bears like to eat they do.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I am sorry about your older sister. ou woud think that being over 900 years old would lend itself to learning a better way.

    Bears do like to eat. Everybody likes to eat.

    If Dog loves Molly and Wee Meddy, that is a good sign.


  23. Yoda says:

    So being pleasant — more work it is?


  24. Yoda says:

    Bears like to eat more than most other animals they do

    Liked by 1 person

  25. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It’s not that bears like to eat more, it’s that bears eat more. We have to eat extra to carry us through hibernation.
    But, we do like to eat. Cue Molly and her dancing sanwiches.


  26. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Animal video for Tarn ans other guine pig fans.

    Liked by 2 people

  27. molly says:

    Ooops sorry I’m late!

    Liked by 1 person

  28. molly says:


    Wee Meddy and Dog

    Liked by 2 people

  29. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    The dancing sandwiches appeal to my tummy.
    Wee Meddy and Dog tug at my heart.
    🌯 :burroto: 🌯 🐻 🙄


  30. molly says:

    IRL Dog is big and ugly, yet he’s sad and adorable! 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  31. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It doesn’t matter if Dog is ugly. He loves you and you love him just as much.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. molly says:

    Good night Fuzzie W.
    Sleep tight. 🙂


  33. fuzziewuzziebear says:


    Liked by 1 person

  34. JDG says:

    It all comes back to sammiches. When a woman won’t make sammiches, you know she’s being unpleasant.

    The question is, is she unpleasant because she won’t make sammiches, or is lack of sammich making what makes her unpleasant?

    Liked by 2 people

  35. JDG says:

    What do you do when the unpleasant behavior of two women is hilariously directed at a woman who is even more unpleasant (at least IMO)?


  36. Cill says:

    Yo I have to watch that one, but when my time is my own.


  37. BuenaVista says:

    I find women to be pleasant or unpleasant based on the degree to which they’re infatuated. So they’re pleasant if you’re in column a (“I’ll marry him”) or column b (“I’ll fuck him”), but it’s nearly a sport for them if you are column c (“fuck off and die, loser”). It’s a good way to calibrate your utility to a woman; unless she’s just nuts, or grossly overconfident of your devotions, she’ll make an effort.

    Where it gets interesting is if you’re with a woman who practices this Bitch Modal Delivery (BMD(tm)), at random intervals. There will be days when she lapses into Bitch Mode and a guy is just supposed to understand. The ratio of good days to bad days, with one of my woman friends, is about 3-1. She’s not getting what she wants from me because when she goes on a Bitch Bender I just shut her down. Evidently I am the first person who has ever said to her, “Look, if you can’t be pleasant, leave me alone. Seriously. Just go away.” She wails and pleads, but doesn’t seem able to change.

    I agree with others that Bitch Mode is the new normal for the SIW. I imagine there’s social reinforcement with the other SIW in her social cohort.

    I never paid much attention to this because I was married and didn’t care if other women liked me or not; I was reserved and kept to myself when traveling alone or working. Red pill thinking caused me to open up a bit and now I talk to most every woman I casually interact with. Observations: the older or hefty ones are all pleasant. The younger, more attractive ones have eyes that spin like the symbols on a slot machine, and I learn immediately if I am column a or b, or c.

    There’s a cutie at the liquor store I frequent. She’s cute (not beautiful) in the sense that she’ll hit the wall like a freight train t-boning a stalled pickup, at about age 30, and earlier if she gets pregnant. She’s got some pre-emptive frosty sullenness going, so our transactions now involve my handing her money, and grunting. It’s my impression that my reciprocal sullenness pisses her off further. The whole schtick makes me laugh. We’re talking about a tattooed chick running a cash register in a liquor store in a strip mall. I give her money. She gives me rye. This is called “customer service,” but “Good morning” is burdensome. I could understand her being annoyed all the time if, instead of saying “Good Morning” to her I said, “Aren’t you ever going to take off your shirt and show me your ta-tas?” All men are potential rapists, I guess, and she’s just keeping my small talk under control.

    Popular and feminist culture celebrates female rudeness so I gather rudeness is aspirational for a lot of women.

    Liked by 4 people

  38. BuenaVista says:

    Tinder Nation!

    I’m rarely surprised by how lurid and sexualized the culture has become, but this survey surprised me. 1/3 sext daily, 6/10 enjoy sending nude selfies. I’d better get with the program. I thought I was getting sexts and nudes because I was charming and desirable, but it appears to be a more common phone function — more common, say, than ordering pizza.

    More seriously, I wonder if — given that these sexualized interactions are standard operating procedure — it helps explain the decline in civility.

    A) it might be harder than I realize to cycle between demure expressions of kindness and respect on the one hand, and telegraphic demands on the phone to the effect of “when ARE you going to tap my virgin ass???”.

    B) maybe the liquor store chick is rude because, in her world, if she’s nice to a guy the next thing she knows he’s sending a dick pick.

    Here’s the story:

    Liked by 2 people

  39. Cill says:

    Rosencrantz and Guildenstern


  40. Tarnished says:

    Interesting story re: Pleasantness.

    Four years ago, I was in NYC to undergo an egg donation consultation. Before catching my training back upstate, I stopped in a deli to grab some bagels, rolls, and donut sticks for my friends. I was my normal self to the cashier (an older man in his 50s). As we made small talk, he kept cocking his ear when I spoke, almost like he was really concentrating on listening to my replies. He rings me up, and says “Hope you don’t think I’m prying, but where exactly are you from? You have no accent or drawl, but you talk polite like a Southerner.”

    I laughed and told him I’m a born New Yorker, just like him. He thought it was pretty funny, too.

    Liked by 2 people

  41. Tarnished says:

    So being pleasant — more work it is?

    Probably depends on the person. I have many customers who are quite friendly, easygoing, and enjoy a bit of conversation, but there’s others who simply toss their money on the counter and either ignore everything I say or just grunt like a boar. You learn that’s just their personality though, since they aren’t ever different from one purchase to the next.

    Obviously in customer service it is still important that *you* remain pleasant…but not so pleasant that male customers think you’re hitting on them or flirting.

    Pehaps a rundown of what constitutes Flirting vs Pleasantness could be given?

    Liked by 1 person

  42. BuenaVista says:

    I’ve always been confused by the rage spirals that emerge from feminists, because the disproportionate anger and number of “fucks” in a given sentence are supposed to signify Something Meaningful. This is true whether the context is Jezebel, Lena Dunham responding to a question about her weekly display of nudity, or, my favorite, Shanley Kane.

    Shanley Kane is a self-dramatizing screamer (“feminist propagandist. technology anti-hero. cultural critic and embattled publisher”)in Silicon Valley who does SJW type stuff through her magazine, Model View Culture. She’s simultaneously a brutalized “survivor” of abuse and assault, a drug addict, a patient, and a genius. She tweets out such lovely comments for all to read:

    customer service— Shanley (@shanley) August 17, 2015


    .@rabite you're part of a long lineage of pathetic talentless broke ass hacks i fucked to resolve my daddy issues you're not special MOVE ON— Shanley (@shanley) August 16, 2015

    She’s perhaps the apex female for rude-rage. Just so you know she’s cool, she also posts selfies of her made-up face and, say, underwear.

    Now, I’m sure 95% of women would say “NAWALT” — and of course, they’re not. But Lindy West, Lena Dunham, and Shanley Kane (Amy Schumer, Sarah Silverman, Cameron Diaz …) are cultural icons. They may be avatars. So the vulgarity, startling rudeness, conflation of sluttiness with charming sexiness, hair-trigger rage, and entitled attention-whoring must have a market. Women being unpleasant, then, may be expressing an aspirational identification with their raging celebrity examples.

    When there was still a culture that frowned on sitting congressmen sexting dicpics to chubby, tattooed porn actresses (while their wives worked for the likely next president), a cultural icon might have been Katherine Hepburn. She archly made mincemeat of Jimmie Stewart in the opening of The Philadelphia Story, but she did so with wit, class, and without using the word “fuck” 14 times per paragraph. Stewart, of course, dismissed her as nuts (also without saying “go fuck yourself”), and the romantic comedy was underway. Hepburn was a true strong, independent woman. If you want to hear the very epitome of kindness and respect, from a loving woman’s mouth, listen to this letter she wrote her lover Spencer Tracy 18 years after his death. (They were lovers for 26 years; he remained married throughout.)


  43. BuenaVista says:

    I’d say “pleasantness” in customer service is friendly chatter, maybe with a smile (weather, other mundane things), and is not different between men, and men and women.

    If a woman has stronger interests she might comment on a man’s appearance, make a joke, prolong the interaction, and then reveal her intentions with body language. In a restaurant or bar, obviously, an interested woman will touch a man and linger at his table.

    It’s my experience that women flirt more than they realize or would admit. When I was married I just ignored it and never thought about it, particularly when the woman was married or in a relationship. (I didn’t even know the meaning of, let alone the social prevalence, of female hypergamy.) I’ve found that women just act on their feelings, not always with any strategic aforethought. While a red pill cliche, I see it every day. They signal interest and want the guy to then take the lead, so it becomes an “I don’t know, it just happened” deal.

    Of course, gamers might not interpret simple pleasantness correctly, and then a woman will need to parry (politely and kindly, one would hope) the gamer’s blurted overture. Or, I guess, she could nuke him. Shanley Kane provides many great examples of the latter.

    Liked by 1 person

  44. BuenaVista says:

    Flirting: also includes, perhaps, gentle teasing and an extra serving of lingering eye contact.

    I worked out at 5 a.m. a couple of weeks ago and stopped at a convenience store to pick-up some milk and beer at 7. The girl at the counter looked at me and said, “Starting early, are we?” I replied, “Care to join me?” and she grinned. So I would regard that as low-level flirting.

    Liked by 1 person

  45. Liz says:

    “Tarn, “you can tell by their taste-feel”
    Yes, and it’s never wrong. You’re the only other person I’ve come across who can do the same.

    People use facial expressions, tone of voice, body language, and of course words to disguise their true feelings or intent. In a social setting we might smell a woman’s intense interest in a man, but see and hear her trying hard to hide it.”

    That’s interesting. I can read micro-expressions very very well, and have a really good sense of smell (better than anyone I know, by far), but I can’t “smell” emotions. Do you literally smell them, or is it more of a feeling? Are you sure you aren’t reading and reacting to micro expressions? Just curious.

    I think Ton’s “zero sum gain mentality” analysis has some merit…some folks do live with a scarcity mentality in mind and have some sort of subliminal belief that there is only a certain amount of happiness in the world and if someone else is getting it they aren’t getting theirs. But I think that’s comparatively rare.
    In my experience, there’s a kind of karma with unhappy people who get joy out of others misery…they’re always miserable. Most people are happy and pleasant when they are around happy, pleasant people, and most people start to become unhappy and unpleasant when they are around miserable people. For that reason, people tend to want to be around pleasant happy people and avoid unpleasant ones (unless they secretly want to be unhappy, and many folks do). Sometimes unhappiness becomes habit, in fact I think it’s that way for most unhappy people…it can happen at any time, but especially during the foundational years when one is most impressionable (childhood, for example).

    People mimick what they see and experience, that’s generally how social conditioning works. That’s why, for instance, we laugh when we see seventies and eighties fashion now but at the time most people just accepted it as “style” and it didn’t seem so funny. Social courtesies, consideration, pleasantness and so forth work in a similar way. You really see this on the highway in particular. The differences between places are pretty pronounced (from city to country, and especially in other countries…I hate driving in cities in general, but it’s actually a real adrenaline rush to drive in South Korea, I had to actually learn to drive like an American again after that, and it’s the same with social behaviors).

    Liked by 3 people

  46. Liz says:

    “More seriously, I wonder if — given that these sexualized interactions are standard operating procedure — it helps explain the decline in civility.”

    Yes. Neighborhoods employ zoning to keep red light districts in red light districts for a reason. Bangkok ain’t a “pleasant” or “happy” place. Neither is Tijuana. Even with all the virtually free and ubiquitous access to “happy endings”. Trash tends to stink up an environment.

    Liked by 1 person

  47. Liz says:

    I think for women it’s also a bit of a “dick measuring contest”. And they don’t have dicks. Men don’t feel competitive with women but women often feel very competitive with men.

    Liked by 1 person

  48. Liz says:

    Just checking out that guinea pig video. Ever since Shadowed Knight mentioned the efficiencies of using guinea pigs as a food source in survival situations over at Ton’s place, I’ve looked at guinea pigs differently.

    I actually threw that bit of trivia out the other night when a few “survivor” type dudes were eating dinner at our house. They were impressed and didn’t know that! That led to some funny conversations…and we have a smoker, though we’ve only used it for fish. 😛 Our sons have been talking about killing and eating an iguana (seriously), they’re everywhere around here. I’m not sure I could actually cook that up and eat it myself unless I was really and truly famished. But we’ll see.

    Liked by 1 person

  49. Liz says:

    I was at a dinner last weekend (just women) and someone mentioned Tinder and I almost blurted out that the gyns say 9 out of 10 cases of STDs these days are from women who use Tinder. Very very glad I didn’t say that because, after a beat, one of them pulled out her ipad and said, “Look at the guys on my Tinder profile!”
    That was a very very close social faux pas from moi.

    Liked by 4 people

  50. Liz says:

    “As I sat there watching them eat in such a normal manner and the kids help clear the dishes off the table after, it made me think some more. I’ve heard of something called “anatomical memory” but I had to wonder if our personalities have a sort of memory too? Like, when I’m driving my hands and legs kind of do the work automatically and don’t really think about it. And when I worked at the café, I’d do most of that on a sort of autopilot too, once everything was a habit pattern. I’d take bunch of orders and know the price of everything together. Eventually I didn’t even have to add any of it up…three drinks and three sandwiches plus one ice cream cone came to ten dollars and fifteen cents after taxes, and so forth.

    What if our personalities had the same sort of thing? Maybe everything was a habit pattern and that’s why a grumpy old person gets so angry over nothing…when a ball lands on his lawn, for example. It’s not like a ball is really going to hurt the grass, and once upon a time that old guy was a kid running around just like the one he’s yelling at. Maybe that old guy has just been angry so much his personality memory automatically goes where it’s conditioned to be. And maybe it’s like that for crazy people too. Their personality memory has been set on Nutter. That Nutter setting just waiting for one thing or another to trigger it, and that’s all there is to it. Could come out at any time, for any reason. No point in asking why, really. Sarah was just a Nutter.”

    Liked by 1 person

  51. BuenaVista says:

    “Sometimes unhappiness becomes habit, in fact I think it’s that way for most unhappy people…it can happen at any time, but especially during the foundational years when one is most impressionable (childhood, for example).”

    I think this is quite profound, and in regard to me and my children, pretty disturbing.

    David Mamet once wrote that under stress, we revert without thought to the mental and emotional state we knew as 10 year-olds. Adults might be less selfish in their behavior if they thought more about the habits they were delivering to their children to shoulder — forever.


    If the 9/10 stat is true for Tinder, it truly is a randomized, nihilistic hook-up platform.

    Liked by 2 people

  52. Liz says:

    “I think this is quite profound, and in regard to me and my children, pretty disturbing.”

    Sorry, BV. 😦
    I didn’t have the awful childhood you did, but I grew up in a very unhappy home. I don’t have a single happy childhood memory as far as I can recall. I think things like that can be “reset” too. I’m a very happy person now. I do try to make the home environment very happy for our children, for that reason though.

    Liked by 3 people

  53. Tarnished says:

    Liz @ 1:20

    For Cill it’s closer to a scent/smell, for me it’s more like tasting except with my skin. Hence why I call it “taste-feel”. I do also have a great sense of smell, and can tell when someone I’m close to is upset/angry/depressed because they do have a different scent…but the taste-feel “works” all the time, regardless of if I know the person or not.

    For all I know, it could very well be a slightly synesthetic way of reading microexpressions but they get translated as smells or tastes. It’s not anything New Agey like my mom thinks…of that I’m certain. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  54. Farm Boy says:

    If Tarn has a post to publish, why not at 12:01 AM Tuesday Patriarch Time?

    Liked by 1 person

  55. Farm Boy says:

    Is it easy to be pleasant to one’s own family?

    Liked by 1 person

  56. Liz says:

    “Is it easy to be pleasant to one’s own family?”

    I’m sure it depends on the family.

    Liked by 1 person

  57. Tarnished says:



    Friends? Absolutely.
    I’d crawl through acres of broken glass for them.

    Liked by 2 people

  58. SFC Ton says:

    I stayed in this bed and breakfast type of place when I was in Scottland, Northern Ireland and Northern England( touring around hitting locally famous lifting stones….. ) & the difference in americans was noticed in each place, funny enough in Ireland all of the South was considered Texas.

    Any rate it was mildly amusing the 1st time in Scotland when the couple was telling me about the difference between us, and a belly laugh in England.

    iguana; chicken of the tree and ain’t half bad…. though it ain’t good either. Maybe deep fried? Any rate y’all should be horsewhipped for not using that smoker more often

    Smell…taste,feel… No idea what to call it but my sixth sense is spot on. I know when chicks are pregnant before they are showing,/ telling anybody, I know who to trust, which door is safe, which one has 50 hajjis behind it, predict human action fair enough in advance to avoid most trouble and never really think about any of it. I reckon it is years of high risk living tuning me into all that animalistic survival from generations of successful breeding and not anything particularly special about me.

    Liked by 2 people

  59. Cill says:

    I actually drafted a post on the subject but it stays unpublished. When I broach the subject with people irl I smell their scepticism straight away. Some things to do with my sense of smell and my skin – the whole body image thing – are altogether too weird to talk about.

    In my case it *is* smell. I can smell peoples emotions. But my personal weirdness goes way beyond that, I’m afraid.


  60. Cill says:

    It’s nothing to do with new age. By the age of 6 I had already realized other people don’t smell emotions, or they would not talk and behave as they do. I reckon I could smell emotions pretty much from the time an embryo or baby starts to get a sense of smell.


  61. Tarnished says:

    Precisely, Cill.
    Whatever it is that we sense, it has nothing to do with “supernatural” causes. Perhaps the underlying causes aren’t known right now but I’m confident that there is some scientific reason behind it.

    Liked by 1 person

  62. Tarnished says:

    I don’t think you’re weird, btw. Or at least no more an oddity than myself. 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  63. Cill says:

    Tarn your draft post has not been scheduled for publication. Do you want me to schedule it for 12:01 a.m. Tuesday Spawny time?

    Liked by 1 person

  64. I default to pleasant most of the time. I am pretty easy going. If I get upset and act unpleasant, someone’s pushed my buttons hard to get me there because its just too much effort to be in that energy space for no good reason. I am very cautious w my body language when around men in public, especially in places where pickups might be expected bc more than once my being pleasant has been misinterpreted as a “go” signal uninterntionally. I guess that would be a bitch shield? I just try to be nice to everyone, ESP after opening my biz, I take time to chit chat with tellers, cashiers, waitresses, and such.

    Liked by 2 people

  65. Tarnished says:

    That would be great, Cill. Thank you in advance.

    Liked by 2 people

  66. And maybe I get that all wrong, maybe I should be flirty! Its partly a habit from being married and of course not looking back then, and also It’s just I have found (not bragging here) that men are already overly approaching in my case. i dont want to egg that on. I am afraid what might happen were I to flirt indiscriminately! Plus it’s akward if I do not feel the same. So I err on the cautious side. With age this is becoming less necessary and I actually welcome it. But then again I am seeking a mate so perhaps I am getting this altogether wrong!

    Liked by 1 person

  67. Tarnished says:

    Maybe you already do without realizing it, Bloom. BV’s example with the milk/beer cashier above sounds like something I’d say…except I just enjoy joking around with people, and have very little idea of how to flirt. The fact that at least *some* would see such a conversation as a deliberate flirt is very telling!


  68. Maybe Liz or tarn could elaborate although they may not be looking, it’s a fine line between being pleasant enough but not too much….

    Liked by 2 people

  69. Cill says:

    Pleasantness = flirt?

    Are you the type of person that looks straight back into the eyes?

    Don’t do what I do, which is grin at people while looking them in the eye. I do it without thinking, and it does send out the wrong signals. Be pleasant without looking at them in the eye, maybe?

    Liked by 2 people

  70. Tarnished says:

    There is indeed a fine line. So fine, in fact, that I’ve no idea how to see it. There have been numerous (seriously, a LOT) of times I’ve been told I’m/accused of flirting verbally or via my body language. (Obviously, this doesn’t include touching others at all.) Every time I think about what could constitute as flirting, I come up empty-handed. My body language is identical to my male coworkers and friends. They certainly aren’t flirting with other men, lol! 😛

    Hopefully Liz knows more?

    Liked by 2 people

  71. Tarnished says:

    Are you the type of person that looks straight back into the eyes?
    Yes, indeed. Obviously I’ll break contact if it seems to be inadvertently challenging them, but otherwise always.

    Be pleasant without looking at them in the eye, maybe?
    Where should one look, then?


  72. molly says:

    You attract attention as ur good looking. You can’t help it. I have tired stuff to attract less attention. I wore engineers overalls once and it was naive as it attracted like *galactic* attention. 😐 You can’t help it, except stay inside! lol

    Liked by 3 people

  73. Cill says:

    “Where should one look, then?”
    Um, down a bit? 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  74. Cill says:

    Seriously, you could look at the mouth.

    Liked by 1 person

  75. Liz says:

    “Hopefully Liz knows more?”

    I doubt it. I’m really not used to going anywhere alone. Women generally have only a couple of types of “eye meeting”. One is the “interested” look….woman holds the man’s eyes with interest. One is the pleasant look, where one smiles but quickly looks away rather than carrying on the stare, that is friendly but not “flirty”, but I suppose a person could misinterpret it. The most common one is a dropping of the eyes…men don’t do this, but women kind of instinctively do. It’s a reflexive submissive posture.

    Liked by 3 people

  76. Liz says:

    “dropping of the eyes”= dropping one’s gaze, iow.

    Liked by 3 people

  77. Maybe I do subconsciously do the drop eye thing. If I happen to notice a man giving me IOI, I usually get flustered, blush, drop my gaze, not trying to escalate anything but perhaps it does unintentionally. I tend to approach the world very openly, can be chatty and bubbly, I like people and find them fascinating so I naturally engage. But maybe it comes across wrong? Or maybe as Molly says it would happen no matter what. It’s embarrassing. But hey, it’s not often you meet the coolest chick ever! Lol. I am not just better than average looking (although not imho stunning 9+) I am interesting, have lots of neat stuff happening, kind, etc. any guy would be lucky to get me I think, as lucky as I would be to find him! May it be sooner than later…

    Liked by 3 people

  78. Liz says:

    The eye drop gaze thing is instinctive and not a sign of attraction (necessarily), Bloom. It shouldnt’ be interpreted as flirting…virtually all women do it. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  79. Tarnished says:

    I used to do the eye drop thing when I was younger, mostly because I was pretty shy around new people and unsure of myself. But that ended at around age 17-18, when I started needing to pay for all my own stuff/buy a car/apply for loans in person, etc. Nowadays I’ll only drop my gaze if someone seems put off by keeping eye contact (either because *they* want to drop their eyes or they seem to take it as a challenge).

    I’ll have to try looking at the mouth, or maybe just to the side of their head. That’s good advice, and won’t unintentionally make me look submissive to the customer/distributor. Thanks!

    Liked by 1 person

  80. Tarnished says:

    I have tired stuff to attract less attention. I wore engineers overalls once and it was naive as it attracted like *galactic* attention.

    When I was in my last year of college, I got asked out by a random guy who looked like a male underwear model. I was wearing a dark blue hoodie with a dragon on it, scuffed up sneakers, relaxed fit jeans, and just a regular ponytail. It was so weird! 😕

    I think pleasantness shines through, no matter what you’re wearing, and people are attracted to that just as Liz pointed out.

    Liked by 2 people

  81. Liz says:

    “I’ll have to try looking at the mouth, or maybe just to the side of their head. That’s good advice, and won’t unintentionally make me look submissive to the customer/distributor.”

    It’s a little different why you are addressing a distributor or customer, I think.
    No one wants a nurse to look “shifty” or insecure either…and they surely would if I couldn’t look them in the eye. 🙂


  82. Sumo says:

    I rarely look people in the eye; leftover habit from my LE days, I guess. LEO-types are trained to watch the hands and shoulders in order to determine if an attack is about to take place. Couple that with martial arts training advocating that one should watch the entire body for signs of impending violence, and you end up looking distracted all the time, even if you’re completely aware of everything that going on around you.

    Of course, some people think it’s rude that I don’t make eye contact with them. Or they think I’m trying to hide something, which is kind of funny, since I will absolutely look people in the eye if I’m lying to them. 😀

    Liked by 2 people

  83. Liz says:

    ” I will absolutely look people in the eye if I’m lying to them.”

    You must have some Italian in you somewhere, Sumo. 😛

    Liked by 1 person

  84. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    At a guess, all of the women here must have the balance between being friendly and not flirting down to the point where it does not require conscious thought.


  85. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It is tangential to the post.

    The last time I ought a corsage was for the Prom in high school.


  86. Cill says:

    Tarn’s post is published.


  87. SFC Ton says:

    If a man cannot look a man in the eyes and track the others hands etc he needs more training.

    The human sensory system and brain is a huge data collection device and super computer rolled into one. Get out of the way and let it do its job

    Liked by 2 people

  88. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I heard a story about Queen Cleopatra. While hosting, she took a pearl, more valuable then, and dropped it into a cup of vinegar. Being calcium carbonate, it broke down chemically and dissolved. She then drank it. That had to be the ultimate demonstration of wealth at that time.
    Modern day women may be doing the same in giving nuclear rejections. While Cleaopatra would not run out of pearls, modern day women…


  89. Fuzzie women don’t hold all the power. That’s red pill 101. Being afraid of women gives up your power. I say this not to be quarrelsome but to provide insight. Men hold the power, those who realize that despite the smokescreen do well…


  90. The first woman in a man’s life, his mom, does hold all the power. Once he is weaned, the rest are subjugate. Not a popular thought but one a man would be well to internalize. In adulthood, A man chooses his woman. Women hope to be choosen.

    Liked by 1 person

  91. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I think to be a “good man” means to concede all that. This is so convoluted.


  92. Admittedly, too many women (and men) have forgotten this basic premise…. But it is what it is.


  93. Fuzzie one can cling to the idea the earth is flat along with the herd or see that the wod is round and possibly die upon that sword. Either is a choice but none are powerless.


  94. Fuzzie I can’t change that or fix that. But I do know it still exists because I have seen it. The idea that there was some golden age where it wasn’t like this is an illusion. Shakespeare is proof of that, as is the Good Book. People have always been this…

    Liked by 1 person

  95. Or in short form: what has always worked always will. What has never worked never will. It is only stubbornness of spirit that leads one to believe otherwise. The path is narrow but true….

    Liked by 1 person

  96. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    The point about Marriage 2.0 is that it is unworkable. Of course you can’t change it.

    Liked by 1 person

  97. Fuzzie not everyone believes in marriage 2.0 as the be all, end all. Clearly it is severely lacking. People can be in the world but not of it. My babysitter is a happy example of that.

    Liked by 1 person

  98. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Did they accept your brother? God knows, he’s due for a break.
    I keep looking for reasons to hope.


  99. Fuzzie my brother could have been accepted but instead he choose to flaunt all the reasons he should be rejected – drunkenness, cursing, laziness, being of the world via online stuff including porn. My brother, as much as I love him, is not marriage material. He’s getting it together now but back then he was a hot mess. They were wise to pass, I hate to say!

    Liked by 2 people

  100. I did not share all this then put of respect for him but my brother was more hinderance than help. He was a hot mess. I tried to help, realized I was only enabling that, and he moved in w our mom. He got sober, and now has a job. He had his reasons for being a hot mess and I don’t hold it against him, but I also had too much troubles of my own to hold him together. And it would have not helped him anyway. I was glad to be stop one but he’s on the path he needed to be.


  101. And when I say drunkeness I mean he was drinking so much and for so long before he came to my place that when he moved in w my mom and did not have alcohol he hallucinated and had delirium tremors for five days straight. Scary shit! I am proud of him for getting sober and I hope he stays do for his sake.


  102. Life ain’t a bowl of cherries, for anyone.


  103. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I didn’t know and you were right to hold back. It does make it hard to draw good conclusions though.


  104. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    You’re not normally this chatty. What’s different?


  105. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Now, you’re quiet. What is going on?


  106. Sorry fuzzie, I fell asleep. My brother is a good guy, he was in a bad space. He’s doing much better now. That’s what’s important. I was mad at him at the time, but know it wasn’t about me. Peace!


  107. SFC Ton says:

    Women fuck the men who ask; men bang the bitches that say yes.

    Being a good man is worthless unless you also happen to be good at being a man. If you can only be one, be good at being a man.

    Liked by 2 people

  108. BuenaVista says:

    Not understanding, for 20 years, the difference between trying to be a Good Man, and being good at being a man, I would be more extreme. I don’t think A Good Man (drafthorse provider, selfless and sacrificing) is ever Good. He’s just teaching everyone in his world (wives, children, staff, community) that the object of life should be the locating, and exploitation, of a willing Y-chromosome carrier.

    We generally react with contempt to people who say that the sole value of a woman is her utility, though I hear this approach is working pretty well for the Islamists.

    Being good at being a man, otoh, requires one to retain one’s integrity and strength (which may appear selfish to even children and wives, i.e., the antithesis of being A Good Man). In the end this is better for everybody. Bitter, hard truth.

    It’s the choice between the life of Judah, suborned by Tamar, and the rule of Proverbs 31 (“Give not thy strength unto women, nor thy ways to that which destroyeth kings.”)

    Liked by 3 people

  109. BuenaVista says:

    Speaking of strength, and my humorous search for more of it: eccentric squats. Wow. Shit be getting real.

    Liked by 1 person

  110. BuenaVista says:

    We did singles (MRs) last week, and I’ll beat my 12 month targets in 6-9, I think, absent injury.

    I have a chiropractor who is in your class as a powerlifter, though, and he just laughs uproariously when I ask him if I’ll get my shoulder back. Gee, I wonder what that means.

    Liked by 1 person

  111. SFC Ton says:


    have you tried holding a kettlebell over your head and walking around like that? Got that from Simmions and sure as shit seems to help more then anything, and help everyone I have recommended it to

    When I committed to becoming as strong as I could possibly be, I committed to injuries and pain. Including life long injuries and pain. It’s the way of men and things. When I wake up and don’t hurt I get pissed for not training hard enough though right now I am dropping weight. I want to be back down to 200 pounds. A nod to being short and getting old.


  112. BuenaVista says:

    Well, after 40 fractures and 9 surgeries, I don’t expect to feel ‘normal’ but functional strength is its own reward. I’m getting smaller around the middle but gaining weight. Will stay at 185; I’m not buying new clothes.

    On the kettle bell move: Yes, actually the doc suggested the same drill. I walk around as best I can in that position when warming up. One issue with it though: I cannot straighten my arm and raise it fully upright. So doing a lot with elastic bands, MB slams, and dumbbell push presses. It’s funny when my shoulders go full Rice Krispies (snap, crackle, pop) but we both know that’s just more scar tissue tearing, which is good. The coach says it’s getting better, but I’m getting my kicks from the dead lifts, squats, and bench pressing at the moment. I think I have a really good coach. Hitting PRs weekly, no plateau in sight. Two more this morning. Easily, these training sessions are the most enjoyable part of my day.

    You know you have a good chiropractor when his office has a kettle bells, a barbell and a squat rack and he laughs and says, “Did I give you that bruise last week?”

    He found out his wife is my dentist. I said, “Yes, Trevor, your wife’s hands have been inside my mouth.”

    Liked by 2 people

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