Consent Forms — Workable Solutions Are Not Desired


So exactly what problem are consent forms ostensibly meant to solve?  Some background on consent forms can be found here, here, and here.  Universities already have many rules on the books dealing with sexual misconduct.  Yet it would appear that from their perspective, that they can’t make them work.  For if they could, there would not be the new consent form laws coming on the books.

The long standing standard with respect to these issues has been that the party who is the target of the misconduct has always been expected to assertively show their lack of consent; even to the point of calling for assistance from bystanders.  It would seem that this standard is longer enough.  This is seemingly odd, the present standard would appear to be still be very workable.  On University campuses, there is typically many people around upon which one could call for assistance.  Even in situations where this is not precisely true (e.g. outside at night), there is often bright lighting and surveillance cameras.  Often there are emergency phones from where the authorities can be called.  And of course, most everybody these days has a cell phone.  And when that is not considered to be enough, there is the old standby of being escorted by a trusted person.

Clearly the risks are readily avoidable; and if problems do occur, help is readily available.  So why are new rules required when the old rules would appear to be sufficient?

Advertisements
Posted in FarmBoy, Feminism, Lies
121 comments on “Consent Forms — Workable Solutions Are Not Desired
  1. Farm Boy says:

    This Dalrock passage applies here also,

    I think there is another side to the same coin. These women don’t just want to build a better beta, they want to tame the alpha. In fact, I think the former is just another way they are trying to approach the latter. They want to take an inherently unsafe activity and make it safe. They want to submit to a man without having to submit; they want a man who can tame their feral self. They want him to trip their danger signals. Even better if he is a stranger from a strange land.

    They want this all to happen without giving up their freedom; they want to play this out in the context of serial monogamy, so they can feel loved while also claiming their promiscuity is moral. They want to lose control to a string of strangers who have all of the hallmarks of very dangerous men, and they want a promise that this will always end well.

    They want to know that this will be safe, without it losing the excitement of it feeling unsafe. They are telling men to build a sort of serial monogamy amusement park where they can ride the roller coaster and experience the fear of falling or crashing, while knowing that just behind the scenes grown ups are actually in charge and are responsible for them safely feeling unsafe.

    One more thing. As I mentioned above they don’t want to be hemmed in. So instead of building an actual amusement park, they want roller coasters to spring up randomly in the same exact circumstances where the real danger they mimic would appear. They want to be driving their car on the freeway one instant, and the next experience the fear of careening out of control. They want to impulsively jump off the edge of the Grand Canyon and have a parachute appear and deploy at the last minute. And all they ask is your guarantee that all of this will be safe.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Farm Boy,
    All of this is fuelled by hysteria from “rape culture””. Campuses have become completely and deliberately hostile to men.
    I wonder if there are any enterprising attorneies out there that can take contingency class action suits citing civil rights, Title IX, et al..

    Liked by 2 people

  3. May its bc people (women) are bringing total strangers into their rooms (where there is no help if things take an ugly turn or simply get misunderstood) in the promise of a hook up so often that there is this thought consent forms are needed? But even so, the solution is not the form, it’s in not bringing strangers into your room for a hook up! :/ but that would be blaming the victim to say that, right? “I want to free fall but not splat!” It just doesn’t work that way. The law of gravity applies universally, desired or not. Women should be taught to guard themselves, take responsibility for their own safety, not put themselves in dangerous situations. Or that’s what I would advise. You gotta look out for yourself sister, and it’s a often cold cruel world. Act accordingly.

    Liked by 4 people

  4. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    In the Code of Moses, women are under legal requirement to alert the household if anything untoward happens. The code also grants exception to this if the incident happens in a fiels, out of earshot.
    So, there you go. Over thity two hundred years ago, women were expected to have agency.

    Liked by 1 person

  5. Tarnished says:

    The entire idea is ridiculous, precisely for the reasons Liz and Bloom mentioned previously. Namely, an actual rapist wouldn’t give a single damn about a piece of paper, the same way an actual abuser isn’t really dissuaded by a restraining order. Instead, this is going to create more paperwork…more idiotic accusations…and destroy at least some sexual spontaneity between partners.

    In the end, these contracts will be just as legally binding as the one spoken of in the first book of 50 Shades between Christian and Anastasia. Which is to say, not at all.

    Liked by 1 person

  6. JDG says:

    fuzziewuzziebear – yep! men AND women were held accountable, and marriage vows were taken very seriously. What most folks have since forgotten is that God still takes those vows very seriously. It should be noted that once you were betrothed, you were in the 1st stage of marriage.

    From the Torah as recorded in the Bible, Deut 22:23 – 27:

    23 “If there is a betrothed virgin, and a man meets her in the city and lies with her, 24 then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbor’s wife. So you shall purge the evil from your midst.

    25 “But if in the open country a man meets a young woman who is betrothed, and the man seizes her and lies with her, then only the man who lay with her shall die. 26 But you shall do nothing to the young woman; she has committed no offense punishable by death. For this case is like that of a man attacking and murdering his neighbor, 27 because he met her in the open country, and though the betrothed young woman cried for help there was no one to rescue her.

    If any one is interested what marriage back then (and there) was comprised of, below is a short rundown:

    Stage 1: signing the “ketubbah” contract (Creating the marriage bond)
    i. The bride and / or her parents would chose her husband and her father would sign a legal contract with him called a “ketubbah”.
    ii. Once this is signed the couple is 100% married but do not have sex yet.
    iii. Young children were often married, (arraigned marriage) but did not consummate until of age.
    Stage 2: The “chuppah”: sexual consummation.
    i. Up to 7 years later, the groom is able to raise the money as set out in the ketubbah contract and notifies the father of the bride, who then sets a date to consummate the marriage at the bride’s home.
    ii. The bride waits with her maidens, for the arrival of the groom and his companions.
    iii. The couple enters the chuppah room and consummates the marriage while the companions of the bride and groom wait and celebrate outside or in the next room.
    iv. The groom hands the bloodied “proof of virginity cloth” to the witnesses chosen by the bride’s parents, who then give it to the bride for safekeeping.
    Stage 3: The wedding feast
    i. After consummation, the entire wedding party walks to the house of the groom in a procession for a wedding feast.
    ii. At the conclusion of the wedding feast, the couple has completed the ancient ritual of marriage.

    Liked by 2 people

  7. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    JDG,
    Moses did leave out one thing-making sandwiches. Otherwise, simple and workable.

    Liked by 2 people

  8. Tarnished says:

    The groom hands the bloodied “proof of virginity cloth” to the witnesses chosen by the bride’s parents, who then give it to the bride for safekeeping.

    In countries where this is still done, women have been known to put tiny packets of chicken blood in…select places, to ensure the cloth is actually bloodied. Much trouble and punishment can come to virgins who don’t bleed. :/

    Like

  9. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    There is something different about that particular fraud. All the interested parties are involved.

    Like

  10. theasdgamer says:

    Tame the alpha…create fried ice.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    The first time that I saw “fried ice” in print, I laughed.
    It’s not so funny now.

    Liked by 3 people

  12. molly says:

    “Fried ice” is cool.
    We say “Hens’ Teeth”
    (You call a hen a chicken)
    “chickens teeth” doesn’t sound as good as “hens teeth”, eh.

    Liked by 3 people

  13. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Molly,
    I just remembered that link to the Training Montage in Rocky IV. What if something similar was done for you and Big Red? Naturally, it would be you in your Rainbow Furby persona.
    I am already laughing.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. molly says:

    I’ve forgotten the Training Montage in Rocky IV. I believe u tho Fuzzie! 🙂

    Like

  15. I dunno. Liz, how’s that fried ice?

    Ok to put it another way, and remember I am an infp so basically already a freak by most standards, but get this – I have found by setting a goal and not wavering until it is achieved makes it happen. Impossible, and I mean impossible, things have not only happened but actually even more so than my wildest dreams, just by putting the desire out there and then not wavering until it is so.

    Luck is made not born. I know that probably sounds like voodoo but I believe it so because I have seen it time and again – faith can move mountains!!!

    Watch and see is all I can say at the moment, watch and see.. If I try and yet fail at least I tried. I can not control it all but I can stack the deck in my favor, the universe will have to do the rest! It’s bigger than me!!!

    Liked by 2 people

  16. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I need to feel something positive. How about a bear video?

    Liked by 1 person

  17. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Happy Bear News.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. 🐱Momma cat report: she’s moved from the barn to the house and is settling in quite nicely. She prefers the Bloomettes, and follows them around happily all day. We have a cat and a dog already but both favor me, she’s the first pet that is “theirs.” She’s definetly preggo and getting bigger by the day. Yesterday the three of us were walking down to the barn and despite her big belly momma cat came scampering playfully along after us. I know some say animals don’t have feelings but there is no other way to describe that cat’s body language than pure joy! Meow! 🙂 meant to be, all around.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. missattempts says:

    It’s not always true that someone would come to a rape victim’s defense.
    Some men have no means of distinguishing “rape” from consentual sex.
    For example, there was a murder case where a security guard witnessed a woman
    being raped, but he thought it was volentary sex, so he didn’t come to the woman’s
    aid. She was later found murdered.
    If a man rarely gets sex and fantasizes abut it quite a lot, how would he know if the
    woman was a victim of rape or a willing partisipant?

    Like

  20. theasdgamer says:

    What is sad is when Feminists (both men and women) create bolluxed policy based on gross misunderstandings of men and women and sexuality. You’d think it was deliberate, but actually it’s just gross incompetence. I don’t doubt that some malfeasance is deliberate, but likely the worst effects are not.

    Liked by 3 people

  21. Yoda says:

    Some men have no means of distinguishing “rape” from consentual sex.

    Yell “No” and “Stop” very loudly they should.

    Liked by 3 people

  22. theasdgamer says:

    Bloom, “taming the alpha” means “turning the alpha into a beta”. You can’t create a “better alpha”. God knew what He was doing. An alpha is a man operating off of his basic programming–which programming was done by God. Sin is operating in alphas, too, of course. You aren’t going to eliminate sin and you aren’t going to create a “better alpha”. The best that you can do is to have the Patriarchy. When the penalty for adultery is death, men will police men and women who commit adultery.

    It would be easier to restore the Patriarchy than to change the basic programming of men.

    Liked by 2 people

  23. Spawny Get says:

    Seeing as Tarn linked to Monty Python on YouTube last night, here’s an ode to the BBC whose funding and spin is a current topic in the UK. Failure to pay the telly-tax can get you fined and sent to prison. To the tune of “I’m a lumberjack and I’m all right”
    (h/t guido – http://order-order.com/2015/07/16/bbc-accidentally-reveal-hand-in-lobbying-letter )

    We’re the BBC and we’re OK
    We spin all night and we smarm all day
    We eat our lunch, we eat our tea
    And we bribe a celebritee.

    We smear and spin
    We leave news out
    We suck up to the left
    We don’t like our own country
    and accrue our funds by theft

    On Wednesdays we have muffins
    And Guido Fawkes for tea.
    We do a load of cocaine
    And go to the lavatree.

    We are the BBC folks,
    We’ve got you by the balls,
    We can steal all your money,
    And you can do fuck all!

    ( for you cultural knuckledraggers out there

    )

    Liked by 2 people

  24. Liz says:

    Well, i’m going to disagree that alphas are ipso facto going to commit adultery. That’s like saying someone who works at a bakery has to get fat.
    I’m big on trust. I’ve mentioned this before.
    Trust is the key to improving the human condition. Together, we can do much to improve the human condition, but working together, living together, i.e. “together” requires trust. So, anything that works to build and maintain trust works to improve the human condition. And anything that doesn’t, works against it.

    What’s true for functioning societies and communities is 100 times as true for a marriage.

    Liked by 2 people

  25. Tarnished says:

    Sorry, which fraud Fuzzie?

    Like

  26. Tarnished says:

    Yell “No” and “Stop” very loudly they should.

    Or scream, spit in their eyes, bite, gouge, scratch, kick, punch, struggle. The only time I wouldn’t put my all into fighting back is if a gun is to my head or a knife to my throat. Rape is terrible, but in all but thr most extreme circumstances, death is worse. You can recuperate from a rape…can’t from being dead.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. Yoda says:

    I’ve forgotten the Training Montage in Rocky IV

    Good montage this is,

    Liked by 1 person

  28. theasdgamer says:

    Well, i’m going to disagree that alphas are ipso facto going to commit adultery. That’s like saying someone who works at a bakery has to get fat.
    I’m big on trust. I’ve mentioned this before.
    Trust is the key to improving the human condition.

    Alphas will tend to commit adultery because of sin. I don’t see trust fixing this.

    Trust. Just post a sign on your building that guns are prohibited and trust people to follow it. Sure, law-abiding people will, but criminals/crazed freaks won’t. So you get preventable massacres.

    Trust, but verify. If you’re going to prohibit weapons, verify that people aren’t bringing them into your building. A much better solution if you want to prevent massacres. You might have issues with traffic flow and crowd control, however.

    Don’t trust and carry concealed. Laws against concealed carry be damned when there is no weapons check. The best solution.

    What’s true for functioning societies and communities

    To what degree is our current society functioning? The Feminine Imperative has sold most men a bridge that they should trust women. How is trust working out?

    Like

  29. Yoda says:

    Do that would be.

    Like

  30. Yoda says:

    SJW primer this is,

    Liked by 1 person

  31. Liz says:

    “Alphas will tend to commit adultery because of sin. I don’t see trust fixing this.”

    You’re right trust doesn’t “fix” that. Integrity and personal moral character fixes that…the type of thing that builds and cultivates trust.

    “Trust. Just post a sign on your building that guns are prohibited and trust people to follow it. Sure, law-abiding people will, but criminals/crazed freaks won’t. So you get preventable massacres.”

    I’ve neither stated nor implied that trust cannot be breached. I’ve said the opposite. That would be the “works against improving the human condition” portion of my statement.

    I’ve stated this elsewhere, recently: Typically, since human behavior is incentive-based, communities have to find ways to muster enough force (“rule of law”) to prevent predatory practices. But short of tyranny (typically seen under governments that ban religious freedom, unsurprisingly) there can never be enough force to maintain a civil society if the vast majority of people don’t share and adhere to certain values about right conduct. It is a community’s value system that keeps it civilized.

    I can tell you it’s a very nice thing to live in a safe community where I can keep the doors unlocked and not have to worry as much about my kids running around. It’s a very bad thing to live in a predatorial environment where you can’t go out to get your groceries from the car without locking your door and turning on the alarm AND packing heat. I’m lived in both sorts of environments so I can say with great deal of confidence the former is better.

    “Trust, but verify.”
    I don’t disagree. But we interact daily with far too many people, both directly (especially) indirectly, for society to work on a “trust earned” basis. Instead we go the other way, basically summed up as “I’ll trust you until you give me a reason not to.” The level of trust we demand in our interractions depends in part on our assessment of risk. Some people are very poor at evaluating risk assessment.

    After trust is lost, then it has to be earned back, and if the risk is high enough, then more than the “basic level” of trust will be demanded. WIth the exception of those who go pure hermit we all have to extend a tremendous amount of trust to others, just on the day to day.

    “To what degree is our current society functioning? The Feminine Imperative has sold most men a bridge that they should trust women. How is trust working out?”

    Yet another example of trust being squandered, hence, “working against the human condition”. Or does that sort of thing improve the human condition? Are you arguing or agreeing with me?
    ————————-

    Per marriage, there are numerous ways trust can be squadered. A wife is squandering trust when she stops having sex with her husband. A wife is squandering trust when she does anything to breach trust as well. At the end of the day, if the extent of a spouse’s fidelity were so inadequate it required a death sentence to persuade him/her against adultery, trust is already such a meager commodity in that marriage the adultery itself isn’t really the problem.

    Liked by 2 people

  32. theasdgamer says:

    Liz, given the current state of society, lots of things militate against trust.

    Men are told to trust women.

    Women promise sex in marriage. Men trust them and marry. Women withhold sex from husbands, increasing as time passes.

    Women promise ’til death us do part’. Men trust them and marry. Husbands pay off their wives’ educational loans. Women institute 70% of divorces. Women take cash&prizes as part of the divorce.

    Trust may work in a few ideal situations, such as a marriage where the wife is chasing the husband and the husband keeps his vows. However, as a general policy, trust doesn’t work without verification.

    Wisdom says:

    1. “Carry a concealed weapon where there are no weapons checks, laws to the contrary notwithstanding.”

    2. “Do a thorough background check before entering any prospective LTR.”

    3. “If you’re a married man, make sure you have options at all times.”

    4. “If you’re in a LTR, protect your assets.”

    Notice that several of these statements are defensive measures which involve backup plans in case trust is violated.

    Liked by 2 people

  33. Liz says:

    I won’t argue that a great deal of trust isn’t squandered in marriage relationships, Gamer. But I don’t see how anyone can raise a family and build a life together without it.

    That doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be disincentives for squandering trust (aside from what’s inherent already…a toxic relationship). Part of the way I build trust, for example, is maintain myself. If I did a bait-and-switch and morphed into a fat henpecking sow, I would be violating trust. I’m not arguing that having options or checking a partner’s history is a violation of trust. Per above, the level of trust we demand in our interractions depends in part on our assessment of risk”…there’s an INCREDIBLE amount of risk to marriage (and having children together exponentially increases that risk).

    Liked by 3 people

  34. @ Liz, integrity and character are big I my list for just that reason – trust. It may not be popular w the masses but good character is what a stable life is built upon, not tingles. Tingles plus good character? Even better!

    I guess I just disagree w the idea that alphas have to be jerks or that women are turned off by being treated decent. I hear Liz complain much less about her marriage (never, actually) than some others. Maybe something is going right there?

    Liked by 2 people

  35. theasdgamer says:

    I guess I just disagree w the idea that alphas have to be jerks

    It’s partly an issue of perception. Until he dumps a woman, he can flake on her, ignore her somewhat, require her to bring beer, see other women, and she likely won’t see him as a jerk. However, once he dumps a woman, she will see all his “flaws”. Love covers a multitude of sins. Before the dumping, the alpha will be seen as a “nice guy”.

    If a man pedestalizes a woman and acts beta, he can treat her nice 100% of the time and be seen as a creep.

    If an alpha is nice 50% of the time and selfish (pursuing his interests) 50% of the time, he will be seen as a nice guy before the breakup.

    A man who holds his boundaries will often be seen as a jerk and coincidentally, will generate tingles. Alphas have to hold their boundaries–i.e., they have to be seen as jerks.

    Alphas tend to flake on women because they have options. Flaking signals that a man has options. Being a jerk signals that a man has options. Women train men to act like jerks because women see them as more attractive.

    If a man is unselfish a lot, he is signaling that he doesn’t have options–at least, that is how women will read the “message”.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. I could name quite a few guys from here and j4g who have, from what I can tell not knowing them personally, excellent character and integrity. I think it makes them more attractive, not less. It’s a shame they are mtgtow and/or far away bc seriously I have thought many times how any one of them would make a great husband! And have wished to meet someone locally of that caliber. So I would not say I don’t see good men, or appreciate them. If anything what I see is the good men aren’t approaching women while the cads, cons, and fast talkers will and do. And based on my real life experiences the cads, cons, and fast talkers are unfortunately much more likely to approach first. They run interference for the good guys. I am not sure what the solution is except to control what I can which is to bounce off the cads, cons, and fast talkers so they don’t jam up the cue.

    Liked by 3 people

  37. @ gamer I have read once there is a break up, the idea that the relationship may not be forever is introduced and then the dynamic becomes one of “when’s that shoe going to drop.” I have seen couples works thru it but its not easy.

    Like

  38. SFC Ton says:

    Always fight back against rape gun or no gun. The women who do recover faster. The progressive answer is to always comply(no matter the topic) but progressives are never correct on anything ( well sometimes they will stumble into an accidental correct action/ thought/ response but it is purely accidental or based on some shred of non progressive thought which has not been eradicated by propaganda)

    Betas don’t cheat
    #1) utter lack of opportunity
    #2) risk aversion which is pretty much why they have no opportunity

    Alphas
    #1) are not risk averse( which is why they have options)
    #2) have a metric shit ton of opportunity.

    So if each will be unfaithful every 11th opportunity for no commitment short notice sex;
    For a beta, he doesn’t get 11 opportunities in a life time. He is faithful be default
    For an alpha, every 11th opportunity could be a regular Monday

    When I was fighting professionally,after fights, women would make it known they were DTF while I was holding one of my babies and standing next to my wife. MMA was virtually unknown then and I was one step above a no body.

    Bloom, what you say about character being a turn on and your self reported information about the men in your life do not match up. Which makes you an average girl and demonstrates whey men should ignore what women say and follow what they do.

    Liked by 1 person

  39. theasdgamer says:

    @ Liz

    But I don’t see how anyone can raise a family and build a life together without it.

    As long as a woman is feeling good about her mate, trust won’t be an issue. Hugs, love-bombs, cuddling and talking, and other acts of comfort building will substitute for actual trustworthiness. Con artists do this all the time to build trust in their victims. Neurolinguistic programming.

    My post about relationship maintenance touches on this indirectly.

    Like

  40. Yoda says:

    Always fight back against rape gun or no gun. The women who do recover faster. The progressive answer is to always comply

    Perhaps a greater victim it does make.
    A desired goal this might be.

    Like

  41. Liz says:

    I will only say one more thing about trust (at least for today. Truly. Really. I promise)

    I agree that alphas have ample opportunity to screw around. There wouldn’t be a whole lot of need for trust if they didn’t.
    But without trust, one becomes an insecure sniveling codependent. That is neither my style, nor Mike’s. He has to trust me and I have to trust him. Our relationship would be much different if we didn’t trust and value each other (and in our case those are pretty closely related things). I’ve seen many, many, many cases of people screwing around and I’ve never been surprised.

    Liked by 2 people

  42. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn at 3:30pm,
    You asked about my reference to fraud. That refers to my comment of 3:32am which answers your comment immediately preceding.
    The “fraud” of the proof of virginity is one that both bride and groom participate in. I think, in most cases, the bride and groom don’t wait for the wedding.

    Liked by 2 people

  43. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Bloom,
    It may be that you haven’t considered that Liz, as a military wife, had to deal with absences of her husband for moths at a time. This would require trust between them and Liz would have to shoulder more responsibility.

    As for what you said at 5:50pm, I have to agree. The bad guys are in there well ahead of of us.

    Liked by 2 people

  44. Sumo says:

    Always fight back against rape gun or no gun.

    Yes. Hell yes. A thousand times yes. As a wise man once said, it’s better to be brave and die on your feet that to be a coward and live on your knees.

    Liked by 2 people

  45. Why the assumption that character and integrity = beta?

    Liked by 2 people

  46. theasdgamer says:

    Liz, women have as much opportunity to screw around as alphas. Lots of them do. Per one survey, 82% of single women from 18-63 have had casual sex.

    http://www.popsugar.com/love/TresSugarSELF-Magazine-Casual-Sex-Survey-Results-16742092#photo-16742092

    Not sure this helps your trust argument. I’m trying to understand how trust is anything but a blood level of comfort hormones which can be induced by comforting behavior in a mate.

    Like

  47. Liz says:

    I’m not sure what single women (or men) having casual sex has to do with married people?

    Liked by 2 people

  48. I am not saying that game couldn’t help the guys w integrity and character get past the not approaching, or am I saying alphas are “bad.” But I disagree that alpha has to equal bad boy/cad/jerk, or that all alphas are going to cheat. Take Liz’s mike, it probably wasn’t intentional but when he tells or shows Liz the box from the bakery that the counter girls have scribbled love notes on, he’s demonstrating he has options. That he and Liz can just laugh at the absurdity of that (then likely rush off to the bedroom) is great. I disagree only men wo options can have integrity or character.

    Liked by 1 person

  49. I am also not saying that the bad boy/jerk/cad thing doesn’t work w some gals. My former neighbor, for example, she’s dating (hooking up w?) a guy like that right now. He’s a total loser IMHO, nowhere close to an alpha much less a man. But ooooh the drama!!! She’s drawn to it, to her own doom and that of her children, unfortunately. meanwhile a really great guy who would be an awesome catch, doesn’t do it for her. Funny thing is the cad guy is terrified of the good guy, scared he will kick his a**. Lame. But yes, she’s a perfect example of some girls do…

    Like

  50. Liz says:

    Thanks Bloom, yes. The dynamic would be completely different if he were disloyal and had poor personal character. It wouldn’t be fun and hot, it would just be sad and disturbing.

    ” I’m trying to understand how trust is anything but a blood level of comfort hormones which can be induced by comforting behavior in a mate.

    Here is an illustration. It isn’t a perfect analogy, but pretty similar. Passengers board a plane and it takes off. They encounter bad weather.

    First scenario: The pilot gets on the intercom but he has a high pitched voice and sounds very unsure of himself. The passengers start to worry. (the voice doesn’t induce comfort hormones)

    Second scenario: The pilot gets on the intercom and sounds very reassuring and calm. The passengers are more comfortable. (this voice induces comfort hormones)

    Third scenario: The passengers find out that this pilot has been in numerous accidents before, and they were the result of pilot “sin” *cough* excuse me, error. At that point, there’s only so much a nice voice is going to do. Yet, it helps but no one is really going to feel comfortable with that pilot and they wouldn’t have stepped on that plane to begin with if they’d known this about him.

    Liked by 1 person

  51. Cill says:

    asd, Liz, Bloom..

    It’s possible that all women have a deep underlying attraction towards bad boys. I don’t think anyone can answer this question definitively. The facts of life are infinitely various, as are men and women.

    On subjects such as this, we speak from the standpoint of our self-knowledge, which is limited. I freely admit to the limitations of my own self-knowledge. Comments on this blog (by asd and others) have brought it home to me very clearly, and have made me face the truth that I am by nature a bad boy. I was born a bad boy, but a long time ago I consciously and deliberately made the decision not to behave like one.

    A woman could have an intrinsic attraction to bad boys but decide not to be dominated by it. She could live a life riddled with tingles for a good guy such as Mike. It happens, like I live the life of a good guy – an imperfect one for sure, but basically good.

    I remember with vivid clarity the day I decided not to be a bad guy. I was very young. But that’s a story in itself, the topic for a post perhaps. Speaking of which, Bloom will you be publishing a post here soon? Farm boy, what does the queue look like at the moment?

    Liked by 2 people

  52. theasdgamer says:

    Liz, you were only considering married alphas? I thought that we were also considering potential mates.

    Fourth scenario: Pilot gets on the intercom and builds his value as a pilot, discussing his many trips without an accident to various exotic locales. Flight attendants console/comfort hysterical women passengers with hugs, convo, sweet talk, etc. Passengers are reassured.

    Like

  53. Liz says:

    “Liz, you were only considering married alphas? I thought that we were also considering potential mates.”

    The term “screwing around” would indicate to me that the person isn’t single.

    Liked by 1 person

  54. @ cill I do intend to post but I won’t get a chance until after this weekend. So if you have something in mind to post by all means! I would love to hear Cill’s bad boy gone good story, as I am sure others would as well.

    Speaking of youth, a very wise friend of mine once said, “we all make mistakes when we are young. The wise ones correct them, the unwise just keep on going…”

    Like

  55. theasdgamer says:

    I disagree only men wo options can have integrity or character.

    I don’t know with whom you’re disagreeing. I don’t recall anyone saying what you said. The integrity and character of a man are irrelevant to his sexual attractiveness to women. I think that’s the only thing that anyone has said that is similar.

    Dark Triad men are attractive to many women. Dark Triad is an alpha trait.

    Women may sex up men with whom they would eschew having a relationship.

    Like

  56. theasdgamer says:

    The term “screwing around” would indicate to me that the person isn’t single.

    What about LTR’s? Also, what about men spinning several FB and FWB plates? The latter aren’t necessarily STRs. Trust of some sort would still be involved.

    Like

  57. And yes, what woman doesn’t want a man who makes her hot, a man other women want *but can’t have.* a man she’s proud to stand next to and be “his” woman. Character and integrity are part of that (for me) as is physical attractiveness, intelligence, philosophy, worldview, scent, body language, etc. it’s a very multi faceted combo. Two different men can have “it” with a completely different mix of factors.

    For me, loyalty, integrity, character, reliability are all big. He can be hot as hell but if he doesn’t *also* have the above, he’s a no.

    I could list several examples but let’s just say it’s a package. And I know it is out there. I have seen men like that. I know they exist. They are rare true, but all the more reason to hold on and never let them go!

    I don’t like drama or a broken heart. I much prefer the dynamic Liz describes to walking on eggshells.

    Liked by 1 person

  58. Liz says:

    Fifth scenario: Passengers know that pilot has been in a lot of crashes due to his own error, but they get on the plane anyway because he verbally “builds his value as a pilot, discussing his many trips without an accident to various exotic locales”. The plane encounters bad weather and they all expire after running into a mountain on the way to one of those exotic locations. All receive Darwin awards posthumously.

    “What about LTR’s? Also, what about men spinning several FB and FWB plates? The latter aren’t necessarily STRs. Trust of some sort would still be involved.”

    The LTR is a good screen. Part of that risk assessment equation mentioned before. If the guy is disloyal he is likely to continue to be disloyal. Same for any length of time when a commitment is promised. But that isn’t marriage. If the man owns up to spinning plates he isn’t being disloyal. He is disloyal when he claims to be exclusive but is not.

    Liked by 1 person

  59. Spawny Get says:

    “but a long time ago I consciously and deliberately made the decision not to behave like one.”

    Bullshit. What about your (proxy) crimes against poetry?

    Liked by 4 people

  60. Cill says:

    How do you know when you’ve never read it? 😉

    Liked by 2 people

  61. Spawny Get says:

    It smells bad…ebul

    Liked by 1 person

  62. Cill says:

    The bastard who wrote it is ebul. That’s what you smell. The rhyme itself is pure as a maiden’s fart.

    Liked by 2 people

  63. Spawny Get says:

    Gamer, that’s not a very nice question.

    Liked by 2 people

  64. theasdgamer says:

    All receive Darwin awards posthumously.

    At least they got to join the Mile High Club on the way down.

    Liked by 1 person

  65. Liz says:

    Ebulness does NOT smell bad, Swithy! 😛

    Like

  66. Spawny Get says:

    Not always. With you it’s springtime, is it not?

    Liked by 1 person

  67. Cill says:

    Blast! I’ve broken my own rule to shun words such as “ebul”, “hawt”, “teh” blah blah blah.
    I HATE those words. You’ll never see me use them.. except here damn it.

    Liked by 1 person

  68. Liz says:

    I wish you hadn’t said that, Cill.
    It’s going to be like a nervous tick to me now…
    ebul ebul ebul ebul ebul ebul
    (mittens! where are those mittens?)

    Liked by 3 people

  69. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I don’t know about anyone else but, if flight attendents offered me hugs, I’d really start worrying.
    About high piutched voices, there is a story about George S. Patton Jr.. Everybody had to take lunch and someone was always left behind to cover the phones. Sometimes, it was Patton himself. It must have been a shock on the other end to call in and have him pick up. He did have a high voice.

    Like

  70. Moehau Man says:

    Well Liz, on the rugged Coromandel those words would be bery bad form. We have to speak plain or our heads will leave numerous dents on other blokes’ Kauri Clubs. As Mrs Moehau Man (my frank old mum) once observed, “If you want to shoot honest crap, why paint the dice?”

    Liked by 1 person

  71. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    “Who stole the strawberries?” Humphrey Bogart from The Caine Mutiny.

    Bloom,
    I may have this confused with someone sle’s story. I t may be common. Divorcee has tingles for deadbeat while kids just love Billy Bets. Sucks all the way around.

    Liked by 1 person

  72. Tarnished says:

    Fuzzie @ 6:48,
    The “fraud” of the proof of virginity is one that both bride and groom participate in.

    I think that you’re assuming the groom knows about the chicken blood. From the memoirs I’ve read of women growing up in these areas, it was not. Rather, it was a form of protection given to her by handmaiden/midwife types who knew that blood was not a guarantee despite her virgin status.

    We now return to the regularly scheduled programing… 😛

    Like

  73. Tarnished says:

    If the man owns up to spinning plates he isn’t being disloyal. He is disloyal when he claims to be exclusive but is not.

    DING DING DING!🔔🔔🔔
    We have a winner!🏆🏁

    Like

  74. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    Are you telling me that the blushing bride pulled the wool over her new hubby’s eyes in this matter?

    Liz,
    It has been a while since I found an aviation video for you and yours. This lecture I found on thunderfOOt’s channel. It”s outstanding!

    Liked by 1 person

  75. Tarnished says:

    Fuzzie,

    In a way, I suppose.
    It wasn’t that these young women (it was 3 different memoirs) weren’t virgins…they absolutely were. But superstitions die hard in some areas, especially when mixed with traditions such as marriage. Not all virgins bleed the first time they have sex, so to prevent any issues they used a tiny packet of chicken blood as a guarantee that *something* would show up on the cloth. It’s easier than trying to explain current medical knowledge to angry in-laws.

    Liked by 1 person

  76. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    There is one thing to be said for the old school ways, you knew what the rules were.
    To throw something in that shows how upside down things have gotten, I understand very few couples have sex on their wedding nights. The reason being is that the day was so stressful, they just want it to be over.

    Liked by 1 person

  77. Tarnished says:

    I can certainly appreciate that. Weddings are frantic just for those helping…I can only imagine how it is for the actual bride and groom!

    Like

  78. Cill says:

    I’m catching up on comments here. Moe at 10:44 pm made it seem that “teh” words are a form of dishonesty. Strewth, that was not his intention. See, just thinking of those words was enough to throw his comment completely out of kilter. It’s not in the nature of a Moehau Man to apologize for anything, so, on his behalf I apologize for his loose lingo.

    Like

  79. Moehau Man says:

    Yes well, it’s true that I can’t apologize, but I can express my regret on behalf of Mrs Moehau Man (my rueful old mum). After all, it was her who made the comment in question.

    Like

  80. Moehau Man says:

    Mrs Moehau Man (my contrite old mum) has just called out, “I was having one of my ‘senior’ moments at the time.”

    Like

  81. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Cill,
    Sometimes, music videos help. Maybe Moe needs to see something with a lot of percussion in it.

    Like

  82. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Maybe this will help Moehau Man and his Mum.

    Liked by 1 person

  83. Spawny Get says:

    I enjoyed my wedding day. Got face ache from smiling so much. Consummated before the reception. Before as in ‘ in advance of’ not ‘ in front of’.

    Oh and trigger warning.

    Like

  84. Cill says:

    Anything to take my mind off “teh” words, Fuzzy.

    Hmm. Jon Bonham was a rowdy rock drummer. So was Moon the Loon. Which would you recommend, Led Zeppelin or The Who?

    Like

  85. Cill says:

    Oh, I see you’ve already given us Buddy Rich. Thanks Bear bro.

    Like

  86. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Oh wait! There’s more.

    Liked by 1 person

  87. SFC Ton says:

    Betas don’t have their fidelity tested so how do you know they have it in them?

    Same for any trait. Courage being the easy example

    Reproduction and sex is about survival and each has a morality all of its own. What is jamming up.the ladies is confusing the two

    Like

  88. molly says:

    Yo! Hawt is for “Having A Wonderful Time” in 1950s. Lol

    If a man is hot he why call him hawt? It’s not like “hot” is a swear word or something. I don’t think anyone uses those made up words Down Under. Hot is “hot”, or people wouldn’t understand what you mean.

    Liked by 1 person

  89. molly says:

    Hawt also means “Huge Ass With Tits”.

    So! Hawt means –
    “Having A Wonderful Time”
    “Huge Ass With Tits”
    “Hot”

    Hawt is ambiguous. If he’s hot, call him “hot” !! *Please*

    Liked by 1 person

  90. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Molly,
    I don’t know. It does all seem silly sometimes. Maybe it’s because they don’t et enough berries when they come into season.

    Liked by 1 person

  91. molly says:

    In season we have wild Blackberries, Black Currants, Rose hip, Sambucus. Black Currants are my fav. 🙂

    I think “hawt” is what old ladies call an “affectation”.

    Liked by 1 person

  92. molly says:

    My mum remembers wild Gooseberries as well.

    Liked by 1 person

  93. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Molly,
    Did greedy visiting bears gobble up all the wild gooseberries?

    Liked by 1 person

  94. molly says:

    There are no wild bears in NZ Fuzzie! 😀

    No snakes or venomous critters apart from the Katipo spiders, which are an endangered species. We can run around in bare feet anywhere we like!

    The only dangerous critters are wild Boar in the forests and stags in the rutting season and wild cattle. The boar are very clever. I’ve been stalked by one! (shiver) Cill said it was toying with me. They can tear you to bits for kicks..

    Huge wild cats have been spotted, tho they don’t attack.

    Liked by 1 person

  95. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Molly,
    If there are no bears in New Zealand, it would be a bad idea to introduce them. However, somenone needs to prey on the wild boars. Are 12 ga. rifled slugs a good idea?

    Like

  96. molly says:

    Yes Fuzzie (are u still awake?) Cill makes his own solid slugs which he fires from a shotgun.

    Liked by 1 person

  97. molly says:

    Tho he prefers to kill the Boars up close, with a knife! (Yikes)

    Liked by 1 person

  98. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I have heard about boars getting up to 600 lbs.. Black bear males get up yo 500 lbs.. That’s big! “Yikes!” is right.
    Bedtime for me. Sweet dreams to you in your turn.

    Liked by 1 person

  99. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Legends are starting here in the US about how domestic pigs are escaping to breed with wild pigs. Together, they are amking Superpigs. More yi9kes!!!

    Like

  100. Spawny Get says:

    Moron baiting

    Like

  101. Spawny Get says:

    Explains much

    Liked by 1 person

  102. SFC Ton says:

    Dog goes in and grabs pig by the ear, you step in and slit its throat….. hard to beat a good pig dog. 40 pound pitbull vs 400 pound sow, put your money on the pit.

    Had ridgebacks for spell but wasn’t happy with them. Not for hunting, though I enjoyed them as companions and protectors.

    Next up will be Plot Hounds or Black Mouth Cur’s…. leaning toward the Cur

    Like

  103. theasdgamer says:

    Gonna take my leave from Spawny’s site. See you all later.

    Like

  104. […] thinking of Liz’s comment “WIth the exception of those who go pure hermit we all have to extend a tremendous amount of […]

    Like

  105. Cill says:

    I’ve published a new post

    Liked by 2 people

  106. Liz says:

    “Betas don’t have their fidelity tested so how do you know they have it in them?

    Same for any trait. Courage being the easy example”

    I agree. Another easy example, the old cougar who “decides” the immoral life isn’t for her, after a couple of decades of living immorally. She isn’t more moral, she has just become short of options.

    “Reproduction and sex is about survival and each has a morality all of its own. What is jamming up.the ladies is confusing the two”

    Most things related to morality are also related in some way to survival.

    Like

  107. Liz says:

    OT just reading Rollo’s this morning.
    Cliff notes of TheRationalMale commentary section (no female trolls now, all dudes):

    “racist! bigot! hater! cunt! asshole! pussy begger! prick! cock!”

    (a couple of worthwhile comments)

    “racist! bigot! cunt! asshole! pussy begger! prick! cock!”

    (a couple of other worthwhile comments)

    [replacing scroll wheel]

    Liked by 1 person

  108. Liz says:

    I enjoyed this link though:

    😀
    What’s funny is how close she came to the right answer in that really discombobulated way.
    😛 Very blonde. Very very blonde.

    Like

  109. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    Maybe I am single for a reason. I couldn’t get halfway through that video. It was too painful.
    Could that be why I don’t read comments at Rollo’s ?

    Liked by 1 person

  110. Liz says:

    NABALT, Fuzzie. 😛

    Liked by 2 people

  111. Liz says:

    I think you do have to have some tolerance for stuff like that though, if you’re going to spend time with women. Maybe not to THAT degree of stupidity, but I know I’ve kept Mike in stitches on a regular basis doing some pretty dopey shit.
    Wish I had a dime for every time he bursted out laughing and said, “Oh, Fry” or “Poor Fry”
    (he calls me Fry…kind of like a combination of Frau/Small fry)

    Like

  112. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    I do remember watching an episode of Sherlock Holmes with Jeremy Brett. Holms was chided for seeing the simple once he explained it. That is genius. to make the impenetrable seem simple.
    I think that your husband may see you as having qualities that offset silliness. Maybe it’s those sandwiches?
    NABALT, I concur.

    Liked by 1 person

  113. Liz says:

    Yes, I think he likes my “other qualities”.

    Though he generally finds my dopiness endearing…but he definitely wouldn’t find it endearing if that was the main thing I brought to the table. 😛

    Liked by 1 person

  114. Liz says:

    That guy actually seems pretty pleased with his wife. The laughing is good natured and not the eye-rolled contemptuous sort, so I’m guessing she must bring something else to the table, too. I hope so!
    🙂

    Like

  115. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    Maybe it’s her sandwiches too. Just the right amount of mustard?
    However, how dopey cn you be? You’re a nurse.

    Liked by 1 person

  116. Liz says:

    “However, how dopey cn you be? You’re a nurse.”

    Pretty darn! 😉
    In nursing school, our comprehensive final exam was a practice board exam. I scored so high on it by comparison to the rest of the class that with the curve I got 130 percent. I think the actual grade was a 95 or something before the curve and the next highest grade was about a 65. And most of that class went on to pass their boards. With that in mind….

    I can tell you whenever I encounter a nurse who takes herself too seriously and claims she has never made an error, I don’t trust that nurse.

    Like

  117. SFC Ton says:

    I trust neither doctor or nurses.

    I’ve seen my share of injuries and what not and have to especially fucked up to go completely under. Rather deal with the pain then trust them not to cut out the wrong part or get all their gear out of me

    LOL @ Liz, I am one of those normally getting called racist. Reality is frequently unpleasant but various charges of non sins like racism don’t change the reality on the ground

    Liked by 1 person

  118. Sumo says:

    Hey Ton, how far are you from a place called Ayden? I was just watching a show on the Food Network (it’s work-related research, you judgmental bastards!!!) that claimed some joint called the Skyline Inn is one of the 5 Best BBQ restaurants in the U.S. Just looking for some first person intel, so to speak.

    Like

  119. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    I would be deeply suspicious of anyone who claimed to have never errored>

    Like

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: