Red Pill Classroom – The SMP

SMP is an acronym for Sexual Marketplace.  And like any marketplace, it  is about the mutually agreed to (and beneficial?) trading of of goods and services.  In this case, the goods are different based on the gender. But in any case, the trading is done with a very short term time horizon. In the man’s case, he is typically trading trading some combination of,

1. Money (for restaurants, transportation, etc.)

2. Tingles generating capability

3.  “Fun”  factor

For some combination of

1.  Prettiness,

2.  Sex

This is pretty darn simple.  There really is not so much too it.  In fact, teens learn about and execute in this marketplace rather well (depending on one’s perspective).

But the simplicity is seductive.  Many learn about the mechanisms of this marketplace and never about the more important and complex marketplace, the Marriage Market Place (MMP), which will be the next post.

So, in honor of the seemingly uncomplicated nature of the SMP, I will leave this post short.

Posted in FarmBoy, RedPillClassroom
247 comments on “Red Pill Classroom – The SMP
  1. Farm Boy says:

    Of course, there is the morality issue of the SMP. And how it affects people later in life who engage in exchange in this market. In terms of negative mental affects, it does seem to affect women more. And men also value women who are veteran to the marketplace less with respect to the MMP


  2. Yoda says:

    Deceiving the complexity it would be.
    To avoid pifalls early training required it is.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. Yoda says:

    Wonder if bears have SMP pitfalls that humans do possess.


  4. Yoda says:

    SMP exhibit #1


  5. Yoda says:

    SMP exhibit #2


  6. I think many women are confused about smp vs mmp and the differences between them. I saw many gals in their 20s who fell into the thinking that the smp is the first leg toward mmp. (I was already engaged/married at that time so was out of the market.) too many would get physical too fast or with guys who had no interest in something “more” and would be hurt after physical intimacy didn’t lead to “more.” As if they believed the path was casual that would eventually get serious. Mostly it didnt. In a “go guuurl” world it takes self control to resist every market “opportunity” that presents as a gal in her 20s, but recognizing the short term vs long term opportunities seemed to be missing/confused. Then it just became “the way it worked” but often it rarely worked unless the commitment/bond and such was well established before the physical. Putting the horse before the cart but not putting that error together seemed to be a big part of it.

    Liked by 2 people

  7. Tarnished says:

    In this case, the goods are different based on the gender.
    Is this a necessity, or simply the way things work out 99% of the time?

    There really is not so much too it.  In fact, teens learn about and execute in this marketplace rather well (depending on one’s perspective).
    Glad you added that part regarding perspective…The SMP actually seems really disheartening and confusing the more I learn about it. :/ 😕

    Liked by 1 person

  8. Yoda says:

    Exhibit #3

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Padawan says:

    Teddy Bears Picnic Antidote #1 for Fuzzy (by Padawan, Blog Laureate 2014 – ?)

    When Fuzzy goes down to the woods today
    She’ll get a big surprise
    When she bends over to look at the bees
    She wont believe her eyes
    For every bee that ever there was
    Will sting her all over because because
    He gave her a subtle bump with his knee
    Which toppled her into the hole in the tree
    Because because…
    Tomorrow’s the day she’ll be starting to get her t-i-i-i-ngles!

    Liked by 2 people

  10. Yoda says:

    The SMP actually seems really disheartening and confusing the more I learn about it.

    For many confusing it is not.
    “Turned on I am – go for it I will”
    The disheartening later it does come.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Padawan says:

    Teddy Bears Picnic Antidote #2 for Fuzzy (by Padawan, Blog Laureate 2014 – ?)

    If you go down to the woods today
    You’ll get a big surprise
    If you go down to the woods today
    You won’t believe your eyes!
    For the she-Bear who yesterday was just a good friend
    Is all overcome with sensations no end
    Recalling when yesterday, shocked by his growl
    Into a hole in the tree she fell
    And erupted howling and swelling with stings
    And confused as well by his growling and things
    She’s simply unable to resist making Fuzzy a S-A-A-A-N-D-W-I-C-H

    Liked by 3 people

  12. Farm Boy says:

    I think many women are confused about smp vs mmp and the differences between them.

    This will be at the heart of tomorrow’s post


  13. Farm Boy says:

    “In this case, the goods are different based on the gender.”

    Is this a necessity, or simply the way things work out 99% of the time?

    Well, A fits into B.

    Liked by 3 people

  14. Tarnished says:

    True, FB, but the SMP is typically spoken of in the terms you yourself have defined above. But why the distinctions?

    Is it untrue that “tingles” are to women what “prettiness” is to men?

    Is it generally considered impossible for men to not give money on their side?

    Can’t “sex” be put on both sides of the equation?

    Shouldn’t “fun” definitely be a trait of both partners?

    Where are the other parts of attraction, like scent or personality or growing to find someone more “hot” as you get to know them?


  15. Farm Boy says:

    Well Tarn, there is much asymmetry between the genders.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Tarnished says:

    Not denying that at all, FB. 😉

    It’s just some of the things that I see talked about and they don’t necessarily equate to my experiences. It’s no big deal, and over the years I’ve gotten used to having discussions at other blogs where I sit, listen, and accept that most people in the manosphere have VERY different romantic encounters. But afterwards I just shake my head in wonderment and remain baffled.

    Not trying to redirect the thread, just still honestly confused about certain issues.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. Tarnished says:

    Also, there’s a number of Facebook MGTOWs who have reached similar conclusions (aka a woman should pay her own way like he does, enjoy sex for sex sake as he does, be happily childless like he is, etc) in order to be considered a part of his life. If she can’t do these things, or seeks to use/change him…she gets the boot.

    This is a very good way to approach the changes in the SMP/MMP. Yet another reason why MGTOW is full of win. 👍

    Liked by 1 person

  18. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    FArm Boy,
    You beat me to it. When I saw the “unmentionable one” in the comments, I went to youtube automatically.

    Now, I will read the post and comments.


  19. Farm Boy says:

    Shouldn’t “fun” definitely be a trait of both partners?

    I think that these days, that “fun” is just an additional surrogate for “spend resources on me”.

    NAWALT applies

    Liked by 2 people

  20. Tarnished says:

    Oh…well, crap.
    Didn’t know that. Thought it meant not wanting one’s partner to have an extremely different sense of humor (sardonic vs slapstick) or to be a stick-in-the-mud. :/


  21. Yoda says:

    “Woman Spread” Black Widow does.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Yoda says:

    Tarn NAWALT she would be

    Liked by 2 people

  23. Yoda says:

    Cynical of females many modern male humans and male bears have become.
    Females on this thread are exceptions that prove the rule they do.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Padawan says:

    Observant He is, mmmm? (by Padawan, Blog Laureate 2014 – ?)
    Yoda an absolute clot being not
    Knows that Tarn like most females is not


  25. Yoda says:

    Which aspects make SMP more complicated that it appears wonder I do…


  26. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I wish the SMP were dollar denominated, that way financial news netwrks would cover it.
    Now, to vent.
    Men have gone through a terrible deflation in the past decades. That would go to explainn hypergamy. Given the Pareto Principle,or 80/20 rule, while twenty percent of the men are getting eighty percent of the action, that leaves eighty percent of the men with twenty percent of the action.
    This goes out to the eighty,


  27. Yoda says:

    Tarn a woman she would be
    Operates different from Yoda when she does pee


  28. Tarnished says:

    Lol. Thank you for the wonderful poem, Padawan. Have a donut. 🍩

    Yoda, males *should* be cynical of females nowadays (no offense to our lovely ladies here!). The strangeness and entitlement that infects the SMP just about dictates that they be, lest they become eunuchs.

    Liked by 1 person

  29. Tarnished says:


    Only indoors.
    When camping, very much alike we are in this respect.


  30. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    There is another thing. Women progress. First, the guy has to qualify to date. Next, he has to qualify as boyfriend. Marriage is tob considered only if all the rungs of the ladder have been climbed.
    There is a problem with this, it is far easier to qualify to a man for short term than long term.
    Women hoping to apply this method are in trouble.

    NAWALT applies. Bloom, this means you.

    Liked by 2 people

  31. Yoda says:

    In olden days SMP and MMP partially unified they were.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. Tarnished says:

    Besides, my guy sits to pee sometimes… especially if he’s tired or it’s very late…so it’s hardly an “all or nothing” stance. 😉


  33. Tarnished says:

    First, the guy has to qualify to date. Next, he has to qualify as boyfriend.

    Ah, but will we see this changing as more men get out of the pool? How many have to leave before women find that they need to buy the drinks, risk rejection, plan the dates?


  34. Padawan says:

    Awareness of Own Body He Has (by Padawan, Blog Laureate 2014 – ?)

    For Number Two, Yoda does stand up not,
    For Number One, Yoda would rather not squat.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. Tarnished says:

    Fuzzie and Bloom share some Toblerone they should… 🍫🍫🍫🍫


  36. Tarnished says:

    I don’t think *anyone* prefers to squat, Padawan. 😛

    Liked by 1 person

  37. Yoda says:

    Ah, but will we see this changing as more men get out of the pool?

    Getting out they are,
    because women peed in the pool they did?

    Liked by 1 person

  38. Padawan says:

    An Appreciator of Beauty Tarn is, mmm? (by Padawan, Blog Laureate 2014 – ?)

    Tarn is more than just being gallant
    She truly is a spotter of talent


  39. Yoda says:

    Much great banter here there is,
    But because of this talk I must take a wiz

    Liked by 1 person

  40. theasdgamer says:

    Because of pedestalization, women generally don’t think that they have to do much besides apply makeup, buy a few stylish rags and accessories to wear, and show up, because they have a vaj.

    Men have to be playful, entertaining, conversational, have their financial 5h1t in order, show leadership, etc.

    The reality is that women have to be sweet, loyal, etc. for an alpha to consider not dumping a woman after pumping her. And emotionally stable.

    Now Ton’s gonna say that wanting an emotionally stable woman is like wanting fried ice. Oh, well, let’s talk degrees of emotional stability.

    A friend of Mrs. Gamer lost her husband. Mrs. Gamer soaked up the drama for an hour on the phone. I spent a few minutes listening to Mrs. Gamer talk (as I wrote a comment and made sympathetic noises) about her friend, then I did “There, there” and hugged her for a couple of minutes. Mrs. Gamer laughed about my Sheldon Cooper impersonation as I also offered to make her some tea.

    Maybe I’ll change my handle to “TheASDbeta.” heh

    Liked by 1 person

  41. Padawan says:

    Tarn 😀 (by Padawan, Blog Laureate 2014 – ?)
    HA ha ha HA ha HA ha HA,
    HA ha ha HA ha HA ha HA,
    Padawan pens The Perfect Rhyme
    All except for these last 2 lines, he does

    Liked by 1 person

  42. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I think that women will be the last to figure out that men are bailing. Because of the low response rate for internet dating, the men who are doing it are casting a very wide net. These men are working harder than they should contacting far too many women. From the woman’s perspective, it looks like she is gettting more than enough attention.

    I have to womder what would happen if the bottom eighty percent took a break?


  43. Tarnished says:


    Cats and dogs living together. Mass hysteria.


  44. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Thank you for the “Fuzzie” poems.

    Years ago, Athol Kay had a post to that effect. It takes both alpha and beta qualities. The beta came from when his wife was sick and he brought her soup.


  45. Tarnished says:

    Padawan, I love it!

    Gamer, why did you need to comfort your wife about her *friend’s* husband? Were they also close or friends/good acquaintances? 😕


  46. theasdgamer says:

    TMMPI warning (Too Much Male Pee Info)

    Tarn (pronounced “tahn” with a southern accent), the downside of men sitting to pee is that our balls can sometimes dip into the water. And sometimes pee will run down our balls. Yuk!

    Otoh, when we sit we don’t have a problem with pee splashing on our pants or the stream splitting and hitting the floor.

    I expect my title didn’t deter someone else from reading…she likely ate it up, er, devoured it, er, lapped it up, er, read it thoughtfully with interest (sometime idioms just won’t let you avoid a 2x entendre–not sure why I’d want to, cum to think of it).


  47. theasdgamer says:


    The beta came from when his wife was sick and he brought her soup.

    Sure, that’s providing comfort. Alphas have to provide comfort as well as tingles. I was joking about being beta. Betas only provide comfort, typically.


    Gamer, why did you need to comfort your wife about her *friend’s* husband? Were they also close or friends/good acquaintances?

    Mrs. Gamer was sad because a long-time girlfriend had lost her husband to cancer.

    Liked by 1 person

  48. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I am thinking that if the bottome eighty percent took a break, most women wouldn’t even notice. It would take a while for the howling to start.

    Liked by 3 people

  49. Tarnished says:

    *sigh* You’re probably correct. 😦

    Truth. But when one is tired or can’t aim, wiping one’s pleasure orbs is a small price. 😉

    I didn’t realize it was a long time friend. Makes sense now.

    Liked by 1 person

  50. Padawan says:

    Bear Sets Good Example, he does (by Padawan, Blog Laureate 2014 – ?)

    Fuzzy he bravely stays on the topic,
    Bears they are grave to the rave of chaotic

    Liked by 3 people

  51. Tarnished says:

    Although it was nice of your wife to be strong for her friend during such a difficult time. Hopefully she has done the same for you in the past.

    Liked by 1 person

  52. Yoda says:

    In the woods bears what they do?
    They do use the woods as a loo.


  53. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I can understand the popularity of the the old rhetorical question but, we LIVE in the woods. Would it not follow that all acts associated with life would also be perforormed in the woods?


  54. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    What I took into account in my last staements were women’s first hand experiences. I completely overlooked the efect of second hand infomation being considered. What if it starts getting around that brothers, cousins, freinds, etc. are leaving the SMP?


  55. I am not sure if this will make sense, but follow me here a bit… So a man having casual relationships does not diminish his SMP, to my knowledge. Women seem less concerned with a man’s past experiences than what he is doing with her at the moment (Maybe he “sowed his wild oats” but is ready to settle down now, for example.) Not that his past behavior shouldn’t factor in but I think it factors in less. A woman having casual and many partners clearly seems to lower her SMP, and for sure MMP, in many men’s minds. Feminists and sex pozzies deny this. But the reality is, it’s true. This ties into ancient cuckhold fears and such. So for a woman, engaging in casual sex just because she can (and let’s face it, it’s easier for women to find willing sex partners than it is for men) is not in her best self interest. I am not sure that makes sense, typing this thought rather quickly as it sprung to mind. But I would see this when my friend’s dated. If they allowed things to move too fast, they seemed to become plates rather than serious contenders. Maybe guys figure if it wasn’t that hard for him, or she seems too comfortable with it all, she’s too “easy” which in his eyes diminishes her smp and mmp? To put is more crass, a guy wants “his” woman to be *HIS* slut, not *A* slut. This was the old reasoning given to women, commitment first, sex second, not the reverse.

    Liked by 3 people

  56. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    While it may be a call for blatant market manipulation, how are we going to reflate the value of men in the SMP?

    Liked by 1 person

  57. Cill says:

    “I can understand the popularity of the the old rhetorical question but, we LIVE in the woods. Would it not follow that all acts associated with life would also be perforormed in the woods?”

    That’s a perfectly reasonable statement by you there, Fuzzy, followed by a pregnant silence from Yoda.

    Liked by 1 person

  58. Tarnished says:

    Scarcity would work.
    Failing that, teaching boys/men they have inherent value just like women do and having them act like it. No more chivalry until they either 1. Meet a woman who is deserving of it, or 2. Meets a woman who doesn’t want it regardless.

    Casual sex is a tricky thing. Whether one is male or female, there is always the danger of getting an STD if your current partner wasn’t careful or worse, didn’t care. I’d recommend both sexes to exercise caution and keep their numbers low to help avoid such issues.

    Liked by 2 people

  59. Tarnished says:


    But remember…if you don’t have sex by date 3, you’re obviously too prudish! Lol 😛


  60. Yoda says:

    That’s a perfectly reasonable statement by you there, Fuzzy, followed by a pregnant silence from Yoda.

    Communication lag from Degoba there is.
    Live in the woods also I do.


  61. Or, going further back in time… a man cannot be pregnant. He either has a woman (who may be pregnant) or he is single. A woman however, can be pregnant for several months before it is physically apparent. So following this reasoning, he wants to be sure she has not been with any other man within that window and preferably ever to ensure she’s not already pregnant. I know it’s a limb, I am not sure how well the cause and effect was understood originally but that’s why virginity in a female is so valued, and why her men folk and her woman folk would insist it be so they did not end up with a female family member who was the ancient day version of a baby momma — draining resources with no man to provide them back in return to the group? All speculation but…

    Liked by 1 person

  62. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    If we only knew who we would be spending the rest of our lives with?
    In dating, I never got close enough to ask about N count but, I did get marriage histories. The last three women I asked, all had five husbands.
    Good grief!


  63. Cill says:

    Bloom I think the original reasons for man’s dislike of high N in a woman was his reluctance to unwittingly protect and provide for another man’s biological child. Male Lions will go so far as to kill the cubs of other Lions.

    [Cill self edit: Heh. You already got there yourself at 5:20 am]


  64. @ Tarn, it depends re the 3 date rule. It’s a game you can only win if you don’t play. If he bails, he was short term anyway or not interested enough… next!

    Liked by 1 person

  65. This was btw my strategy with Mr. Smith, and why there are not hard feelings today. It just didn’t go there. And if it had, it would not have gone anywhere anyway. So I saved myself the trouble is how I see it!


  66. theasdgamer says:

    So for a woman, engaging in casual sex just because she can (and let’s face it, it’s easier for women to find willing sex partners than it is for men) is not in her best self interest.

    What is her best self-interest? What is a man’s best self-interest?


  67. Also, Mr. Smith had figured out some “tells” like having a well read bible prominently in his living room and other “good guy” type signs. But his actions, words, choices in movies and such even, told a different story…not a choir boy! It takes time to suss that out, another good reason not to go too fast…


  68. Cill says:

    “It’s a game you can only win if you don’t play”
    Good point.
    Tarn might have been thinking in terms of peer pressure when she made her “date 3” comment.

    Liked by 1 person

  69. SFC Ton says:

    I don’t understand how any of this is confusing expect for the special snow flake syndrome

    By and large it takes 0 beta skills to keep a woman around. Sound good, I reckon but that mix of alpha and beta idea is purple pill not truth.

    How many men need to leave the smp for women to step up? Only the top 20% or so. The bottom tiered guys pretty much don’t exist on that level unless a gal is in the desperation stage

    For a man to pull off a ltr, he generally needs to be worthy of a ons. Otherwise he is her beta orbiter/ option of last resort


  70. Gamer, BV, Sumo, and Ton all called it right away, too, Mr. Smith! I have learned to trust their impressions of things… handy to have their insight. Much appreciated! Women can easily be mislead (I hate to say it!) Other men can see it easily in other men. And actually I think women can see untrue in other women just as easy. Maybe each gender knows their own “tells” way better than the opposite gender does?

    Liked by 2 people

  71. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    There is another factor to think about when talking about sexual fidelity. STDs have always been a problem and only recently have cures been available.

    It’s not so much that the girl would be a prude by date three. It ‘s that she likes going out to dinner and seeing movies more than she likes guy paying for it.
    Every two years there is a story out of NYC about some girl that mooche lots of meals by dating.

    Liked by 1 person

  72. SFC Ton says:

    Any dude who waits more then three dates is a dumbfuck. (Unless she is in fact a virgin. Otherwise the man is paying full price for used goods. Odds are ty longer he waits, the less she will desire him, ensuring his subordinate position in the relationship and women generally loathe subordinates

    Any dude who doesn’t close on the 1st date is a rookie. What’s the pua line? Always be closing? A woman you have never fucked cannot give you any less ass so you might as well crash and burn vs playing into her frame. If she values the dude, she’ll put out quickly. If she isn’t dying to take your babybatter in her biz box she is unlikely to want it later on

    Otherwise you are playing by her rules, giving her more to to DQ for stupid bullshit and well that doesn’t work out so well fod men


  73. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Ok Ton, I’ll concede. The only men that matter are the top twenty percent. Women cn’t even see the bottom eighty. They simply don’t exist.

    Liked by 2 people

  74. molly says:

    “It’s a game you can only win if you don’t play”
    I think so too! It’s not the reason I “didn’t play” tho. 😉
    The news spreads fast when an attractive girl plays first time! When she doesn’t play, the goss is like ” *when* will she play first time – what would it take”?

    Liked by 2 people

  75. @ ton respectfully, if she puts out on date one… Is she really a good bet? What if she just always puts out on day one? How does a guy know its actually different for him vs just her usual go-to?

    Liked by 1 person

  76. Yes Molly true, word gets around when a gal is easy and when she’s not. In a culture w less connection, more possibility to move around, ok cupid and such, it is maybe more difficult to suss out than in a small town/community.

    Liked by 1 person

  77. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I would thing that playing would be a greater concern for women. They seem to keep close tabs on this stuff. If I were your classmate and heard you had found a BF, I’d be a little jealous and happy for you at the same time.

    Liked by 1 person

  78. Sumo says:

    When she doesn’t play, the goss is like ” *when* will she play first time – what would it take”?

    For me, it’s more like “Ok, her choice. No worries, Let’s go find some sluts!”


  79. SFC Ton says:

    Are any really a good bet? A man wins or he loses and he always loses long term playing into her frame, and losing at the long term cost men the most.

    One serious misconception is a girl who puts out early for dude A will always do so for dude B. Most chicks are not hard core cock samplers ( & the hardcore cock samplers are hardcore alpha seekers). Most men cannot trip enough of her triggers to sweep her up in the moment (even if he can/ does so with some other girl) but if she isn’t struggling to keep her legs closed, odds are good she will keep them closed or dole out ass like cookies to a toddler. Should a man volunteer to put himself in that role?

    Something like that fuzzie, though I reckon it’s likely a 30/70 split. Maybe even 35/65 but I roll with the 20/80 rule as it is illustrative enough and I dislike the splitting hairs thing.

    Liked by 1 person

  80. Tarnished says:

    Fuzzie @ 5:35

    Yup. See my comment at 5:15. STDs, despite having numerous cures now, are still a sign of being uncaring about one’s personal health and that of one’s current/future partners. A huge red flag, to be sure. There are men I know…coworkers…who actively brag about having 30+ lays and casually remark on how they didn’t even “bag it”. So very, very gross.

    Cill @ 5:31
    Nope. Was just quoting from an AskMen reddit thread. A decent amount of guys said that if the woman didn’t have sex by date 3 they’d assume she was trying to use them, had sexual hangups/issues they didn’t want to deal with, or was prudish/hyper religious. I’ll see if I can find the link tomorrow.


  81. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I liked the name of the blog you linked. I didn’t like the post. I don’t like the smell of asparagus in my pee and that would have cost me ten points. Give me broccoli!


  82. SFC Ton says:

    One thing women tend to fail to understand is the cost of dating to men. One of his main objectives needs to be keeping his budget in tack. Three date rule is part of that. Not letting he’d up sell the date is another common protective measure.

    The easy cost to identify is the momentary costs but opportunity cost is no bullshit either


  83. Tarnished says:

    Nevermind, here’s the link:

    And now I’m to bed because it’s frickin 1:30 in the morning already holy crap where did the time go. Good night, all!

    Liked by 3 people

  84. Tarnished says:

    (Last point, because Ton made a good one)

    Hence why it is more fair to split the costs of dates, especially at first when you aren’t sure about where it’s going. Dates/nights out can get expensive…a nice meal for 2 is at least $30-40, movie tickets are $10 each, snacks…add another $10. Now the guy is $60-$70 gone, and there may not even be a date #2!

    Nope. Totally unfair. Always split the bills, regardless of who asked who out.

    Liked by 1 person

  85. Hey it’s possible there’s a reason I am single, I agree, but see myself unlikely to jump on the ons or before date three bandwagon anytime soon. Maybe I should start buying cat food in bulk? Lol. So be it!

    Liked by 1 person

  86. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    About my concession to Ton. If women are going to force class distinctions in this society, i.e. alpha males, women, beta males in that order, they are stuck up to the point of ridiculous.


  87. Cill says:

    That bloke had me in mind when he wrote that test. Have a read of it and you’ll see what I mean. To stop me scoring a perfect 30 he threw in the beard, bust, and furry questions.

    I would have scored 100% except for these:
    – You gave your beard a name and have regular conversations with him
    – Your beard smells like a combination of pipe or cigar smoke, whiskey and red meat.
    – You don’t know what a furry is.
    – You own a bust of Charles Bronson

    When I had a beard I kept forgetting it was there and getting it caught during close up work on machinery. Potentially lethal, that. It was me or the beard, so the beard went.
    The “furry” question is unfair when your cuz is a Rainbow Furby.
    I don’t own a bust of Charles Bronson, nor of anyone else except for the woman I’m with.

    With 5 bonus points less 4 wrong answers I nevertheless scored 26 i.e. in the top bracket. It was a foregone conclusion. I’ve come to find some of these tests fun, is why I did it.


  88. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It bothers me when you say stuff like that. Rather than sex, what would you say or offer a guy that would demonstrate that you are truly interested?
    By the way, sex is a real issue for men because of what BV’s NGO gurrrl had to say, “I am so over that!”


  89. Sumo says:

    No disrespect to Cill, but according to the “checklist” that Bloomer provided, I am less than a “manly man”. However, I can shatter a human ribcage (not to mention a stack of bricks) with my bare hand, craft my own weapons, and cook a kickass steak.

    In other words, the assholes who come up with these “manly man” tests have no bloody idea what it means to be a real man.

    Liked by 1 person

  90. molly says:

    I agree with Tarn as well. Split the cost. I’d pay it all if he agreed. Women should pay, as we made the mess!

    Fuzzy is right, women go on dates for free meals and entertainment e.g. a movie. It’s sick! Why do you bother with us?

    Liked by 2 people

  91. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    To answer your question directly, in your case, you would be good company. So would Bloom.

    Liked by 1 person

  92. Cill says:

    Sumo no disrespect taken. I don’t need to take a test to know I’m a masculine SOB, and nor do you. The test was just a bit of fun, is all.


  93. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    About the test, what is it with this guy’s thing for asparagus?


  94. Cill says:

    Fuzzy after you’ve eaten asparagus your urine smells of it. To me the smell is not unpleasant.

    Liked by 1 person

  95. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I never liked it. More broccoli for me! With mayonnaise!
    Cone to think of it, horses don’t like broccoli. When they saw me eat it, they looked at me sideways. “Silly bear!”


  96. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    The SMP is a hot button issue. Lots of rejection there. I stumbled over a video on youtube. It was a takedown of a hawt girl trashing Nice Guys back in 2013. My conclusion, women can passionately hate men with good and honest intentions.
    I think that I will sleep on that one.


  97. @ fuzzie I certainly don’t have it all figured out, nor does my approach seem to be anything much but scoffed at as horribly old fashioned anymore. I don’t expect a man to take me out to expensive places or to spend loads of money on a date. I am happy to go hiking or do something low key so I can talk with and get to know him, figure out his character etc. and even so I have been wrong there, like Mr. Smith I think the older guys get, some figure out what tells girls are told to look for that indicate he’s solid when maybe he is not. I guess my approach to the smp has been to just abstain – I see no vue in my being more casual about sex. But then again I am not interested in the “sexual” market place. I am focused on the mmp. I figure my not sleeping around with every guy who approaches in hopes he’ll turn into “the one” is a good way to honor my future husband now. I am already loyal to only him, I just haven’t found him yet! When I do, he’ll have to be ready to deal with all my pent up libido, poor guy! Once married I have no intention of celibacy – that’s when it will be go time! The old ways just seem to prove themselves to be what works time and again. I see that with my former sitter and her clan. They have it figured out, they really do!

    Or put another way, how’s the current smp rules working out? For 20% of men it’s a boom market, for 80% a bust. For women? Is it really working either?

    Liked by 1 person

  98. Cill says:

    What are you lot doing awake at this unholy time of the night in your neck of the woods?

    Liked by 1 person

  99. Cill says:

    Spawny wake time is your sleep time, y’hear?

    Liked by 1 person

  100. @ fuzzie how can a guy figure out which gals are “I’m so over it” alpha widows seeking bb vs which gals just don’t do casual, but do enjoy sex? I am not sure. For me, I think it’s pretty clear in person that I am a sensual being, a sensory based, ethically hedonistic person. I embrace experiences with passion and gusto. As a small farmer, I am not afraid to get sticky, dirty, or set. I am ok with my hair not being perfect. I have been told by male friends and such who would know that fridgid women are the opposite. They don’t enjoy or maybe are afraid of such tactile living? They may look perfect – hair, clothing, nails, etc – but not be at all connected to their senses. They don’t enjoy sex, for whatever reason. Look but don’t touch. I am not sure if that’s helpful or even makes sense?

    Also if she’s “in” she will respond to calls, emails, texts promptly. Try to entice him to make plans to spend time together, maybe invite him to do stuff or join her, she will pay attention to his likes and dislikes, etc. if she’s engaging in these ways it’s good. If she’s “meh” take it or leave it, or worse its all on her terms, next!

    Liked by 1 person

  101. @ cill I am not sure, I usually go to bed around 9 or 10, then wake around 2:30, then fall back asleep after an hour or two then sleep till morning. It’s some of my only “alone time” so while at first it used to annoy me, now I just embrace it, catch up on email, read blogs, comment, etc. I try not to do anything to physically active, like cleaning, or I won’t get back to sleep. And luckily for you folks on the other side of the world, my insomnia means there is someone here keeping the comments going! 🙂


  102. Liz seems to share my sleep patterns, maybe it’s a mom thing?

    Liked by 1 person

  103. Cill says:

    Good for you. Spawny is awake too at this time. This is about my usual time of day for giving him some lip.

    Liked by 1 person

  104. Cill says:

    Reading what you said, I think you’re on the right compass there. I think you should hold true to your present course.

    Liked by 1 person

  105. That spawny, he’s got it coming! Lol.

    The distinguished grizzly link was just for laughs btw. I am not sure I buy the whole alpha/beta/omega etc thing. I think a lot of that is context and situation. And I think “gets laid easy” does not necessarily an alpha make, at least how I define it. To me alpha is more character based. Like how Liz describes Mike. A good solid guy w integrity, someone other men respect. It sounds like women are attracted to mike but he’s committed to Liz and his family. So would that make him alpha or beta? Beta is a provider/protector right? So why would alphas do that? But mike seems to be an alpha. These terms are confusing, to me. Undefined.

    Liked by 1 person

  106. Cill says:

    I can understand the term “Beta” but I never really did get “Alpha”. There’s the Alpha who gets all the sex. The sunken-chested rock drummer is one hell of an Alpha in this sense. But he sure as hell is no Alpha among men.

    Liked by 1 person

  107. Cill says:


    Bloom’s link:

    “1. Put a big fucking bear in a headlock and punch it in the face!”


  108. Ok back to bed for me! Gnite cill 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  109. Cill says:

    Goodnight. Have a real good sleep.


  110. Cill says:

    Bloom’s link at

    “7. Play football without helmets and pads on a minefield!” **

    Rugby Union does that already. Eh Spawny?

    ** The “minefield” is the rules of the game and the f*cking referees (although they’re not as bad as Soccer referees I must admit)

    Huge game Saturday 4th July coverage starting 7:00 pm NZ Time. Hurricanes vs Highlanders Super Rugby final. Queues around block waiting for tickets, all seats sold out within hours.


  111. BuenaVista says:

    I think you’ll find, Bloom, that if you meet your “quality man” and start doing the due diligence you’re describing, then moving on to the indeterminate sex-teasing while you continue your character tests, the “quality man” will either go ghost pronto or friendzone you at best. (He’ll probably just laugh and drive you home early and disappear.) What you’ve been describing the past few days is an enthusiasm for tradcon values and men, and as others have noted (Ton and Gamer), that outlook shares little with your purported objective, which is a compatible red pill dude interested in finding a wife and settling in for the long haul. “Quality Men” don’t need to crawl through an obstacle course of personality, financial, moral, and sexual fitness tests. Frankly, dating you sounds like one big shit-test.

    Worse, I think any evolved red pill man, by definition, is going to be highly, highly skeptical about your life plan for him. Which is why I’ve suggested in the past that you move on from the Ozzie and Harriet/tradcon lifestyle model: there are other ways to have a meaningful relationship that don’t require a man in his 40’s, 50’s, or 60’s to put his nuts back in the State Marriage meat-grinder, just because a woman says, “I’m not like other women.” The more desirable the man, the more likely your approach will fail immediately. Any such man has already heard that from every woman he ever made the mistake of confiding to, in respect of what divorce is, costs, and how it affects him emotionally, financially, legally, and how it has destroyed his TradCon conception of family.

    Nota Bene: EVERY woman he’s ever made the mistake of discussing red pill insights with says, “But I’m (But my friends and I are) not like that!” This is why Quality Men are so reticent about their pasts, the nature of the red pill, and the insights it provides. All women are like that when the shit hits the fan. Good luck convincing someone you’re a unicorn. There are no self-described unicorns; they’re revealed over time, in the crucible of experience.

    Another fallacy, I’m afraid, in your thinking is that you are (unintentionally, I’m sure) placing sexual access to you on some pedestal, as something that must be “earned.” You’ve summarized Mr. Smith as a shameful player who inartfully attempts to “trick” women into affairs by doing such things as putting a bible on the coffee table. Newsflash: your “Quality Man” probably spends more time avoiding pussy than chasing it. He’s just going to assume you’re anti-sex, that he’ll be doing choreplay from hell and begging for it the rest of his life, and that you’re using sex (contrary to your assertions) in a cynical, transactional manner to get something else. Quality Men are not going to roll over on command so you can tickle their tummies. Quality Men do not “earn” sexual access; they take it, or avoid it.

    It’s fine if your RP survey the past couple of years has led you to your tradcon model of mate, and the tradcon chivalry game, it’s absolutely fine. Most people play the game that way: men chase, women choose. But this objective is utterly incompatible with your stated interest in a more masculine man who has his shit together. What you’re really describing lately is a desire for a tradcon courting ritual in which you control the keys to the relationship car. And again, nothing wrong with that. The world is dominated by betas who want a woman to make their relationship decisions for them (like the lovelorn roommate of Mr. Smith). Churches preach the superior relationship wisdom of their female parishioners, and attract men who listen attentively to pastors detailing the failures of men to step up, man up, and put up.

    I’d say your outlook has converged with Susan Walsh’s at Hooking Up Smart. She is very confident that her approach is the best approach for UMC women and women who strive to be UMC. One of her truisms is that women are the deciders; that because men are base, women interested in relationships must be the all-knowing gateway to sex.

    But there’s a reason she threw out all the red pill men, and reviles them universally (even the ones she previously claimed were her friends, and with whom she (pretended to) empathize). And there’s a reason why she has about 25 commenters left, the most active ones not being in either the SMP or MMP. If you find yourself drawn to the sort of guy she does permit to comment on her blog (white knights, concern trolls, and pussies) then there may be some information there on where your approach will lead.

    Sincerely, once again, nothing wrong with that, but don’t expect to find a man who will lead, charm, and rock you if you set up a system in which you filter out the very men you suggest you wish to find.

    Liked by 4 people

  112. @ bv time will tell. Perhaps I come across as you describe. I am not a shit testing prude who secretly wants to put my guys balls in my purse. I just dont want to fuck every frog who presents himself in hopes he’ll turn into a prince. I see nothing wrong with that. I don’t think a quality guy would either.

    Liked by 2 people

  113. Liz says:

    “Is it untrue that “tingles” are to women what “prettiness” is to men?”

    I think tingles are to women what schwing is to men.
    For women it’s little more dynamic an equation, as they are attracted to different things (power, and so forth…men aren’t generally attracted to powerful chicks.

    I’m kind of in the middle about the “simplicity” of the SMP. At one end, sure it’s simple.
    But thinking further food is simple to. But the ingredients/ambiance and so forth are pretty key.

    Bikini carwash girl (mentioned before) was simple. She was pretty (sort of) and put out easily. But her main problem wasn’t just infidelity, her main problem was that she was stupid and cheap.

    Liked by 2 people

  114. Bv what would you suggest I do then? How would you play my hand, were you me?

    Liked by 1 person

  115. Choicy says:

    Cillo, I’m going to take time off to watch the Super Rugby final on Saturday. Which team would you put your money on, mate?


  116. Ton, same question. Actually any of the guys here. How would you play these cards, were you me? School me here…

    Liked by 1 person

  117. Liz says:

    “Liz seems to share my sleep patterns, maybe it’s a mom thing?”

    Last night I slept pretty well.
    If I start flippin’ and floppin’ around I get up since it throws Mike’s sleep off.

    Totally OT: We just made a T-Rex showerhead from our 3D printer! This thing is SO COOL!!! (for a boy’s bathroom, anyway) 😛

    Check it out:


  118. Tarnished says:

    BV said: Frankly, dating you sounds like one big shit-test.

    However, when I read this from Bloom:
    I guess my approach to the smp has been to just abstain – I see no vue in my being more casual about sex. But then again I am not interested in the “sexual” market place. I am focused on the mmp. I figure my not sleeping around with every guy who approaches in hopes he’ll turn into “the one” is a good way to honor my future husband now. I am already loyal to only him, I just haven’t found him yet! When I do, he’ll have to be ready to deal with all my pent up libido, poor guy! Once married I have no intention of celibacy – that’s when it will be go time!
    …I don’t see a shit test. This is not a woman who is withholding sex out of a desire to “make him wait” or thinks herself on a pedestal. It is the decision of a woman who is attempting to follow the RP, with the dual knowledge that
    1. Traditional men like what she wants don’t marry promiscuous women, and
    2. That she may not have the best filter/meter when it comes to men (last beau a case in point).

    This combination, were she to follow BV’s advice, might have the unintentional effect of making her into a “slut” or at least a woman with a higher N than a truly traditional man would marry. If she goes on, say, 3 more long-term (6+ months) dating sessions before finding The One, and has had sex with all 3 of those men…her N is now X+3 rather than just X. Upon being told this, would that make The One run for the hills? Or would he be understanding, such as BV apparently would, that sex isn’t something one pedestalizes?

    I think the issue is that our Bloom sees first hand what a real, true tradcon lifestyle is like and honestly wants it. But the thing is, she’s already not a virgin, already has 2 kids, already been married and divorced…the rules that work for the community of her babysitter are dependent on these things NOT happening. Bloom is following what appears to be first time/young woman game, whereas she needs to be following post-divorce older woman game. Obviously these 2 types are very different, and what *would* have worked if she was a single, childless 22 year old isn’t going to attract and keep the type of man she wants. She should be reading The Private Man, not listening to what the 25 and under RP crowd says.

    That’s my take on the recent comments, anyway.

    Liked by 1 person

  119. You guys confuse me. You say women shouldn’t ride the carousel and yet then say at the same time not riding the carousel isn’t an option? I am confused. Or is it she shouldn’t sleep with other guys, but she should woman right up to a ons to prove her worth to you?

    Liked by 1 person

  120. Cill says:

    Choicy, the Hurricanes will be favorites. In terms of average player-status the Highlanders shouldn’t have made the final. However they play a style of rugby we’d expect to see from a team once a year, not every game as they are doing. A peak that never ends. Also they have the best halfback in NZ and the best fullback in the world.

    The Hurricanes should win because they are more experienced and better cheaters. Their captain Conrad Smith is the most effective player at influencing referees since George Gregan. They are playing in front of their home crowd. I’d punt for the Hurricanes to win but I wouldn’t bet the house on it because the Highlanders are an unknown quantity.

    Liked by 1 person

  121. Tarnished says:

    So now the question is this:

    Do post-divorce tradcon men in their 40s still desire a woman with a low N? Or are they now more interested in other traits?

    If they are still wanting a woman who’s N < 4, or who doesn't partake of casual sex then Bloom is doing the right thing.

    If they acknowledge that more years on this Earth generally = more sexual partners and are seeking other aspects in their partner…like a willingness to show and actively enjoy physical intimacy…then Bloom is doing it wrong.

    I will say this, though. Bears might have different views on this topic…

    Liked by 1 person

  122. Liz says:

    Just thinking further on the topic, if the MMP (or LTRP) and SMP are completely unrelated the SMP is pretty meaningless to women.
    A stinky fat chick with hairy arms and a harelip can get laid pretty easily. Look at the person Hugh Grant cheated on Elizabeth Hurley with, “Divine Brown”… was that even a woman?

    Liked by 2 people

  123. Would I truly or even actually be able to resist not sleeping w said quality man were he to appear? Probably not unless he had more self control than me. I am an idealist true, but I am also a realist. I’d likely be putty in his hands. Would I admit that, you know, like on the Internet? Ummmmm… No, of course not!

    Liked by 3 people

  124. Tarnished says:


    Again, I think the confusion has to do with the age of the woman. For a never married 22 year old woman who is wanting marriage down the line, she should partner up with a 25-28 year old man and build a life together…which would mean No Cock Carousel.

    A 35-40 year old woman who is looking to remarry has a different set of issues. She has to prove, not that she isn’t promiscuous (since it’s more likely that she already has a low N from being married previously), but that she would make a good partner…which includes having lots of sex, something that many post-divorce men were lacking in their last marriage.

    The very thing that makes an 18-25 year old woman highly desirable is seen as a shit test when a 35-40 year old is doing it.

    Again, I could be wrong. But I read The Private Man a lot, and this seems to be the case.


  125. Choicy says:

    The head to head odds are always as short as a fire-cracker’s thread. Have you had any thoughts on first try scorer mate?


  126. Tarnished says:


    While I’m not saying you should definitely ride the next pony who comes into town…I do wonder if partaking of libido satisfying activities with someone you’re attracted to might at least relieve some tension and help you see things clearer?


  127. Cill says:

    The Highlanders have the best halfback in NZ and the best fullback in the world, Choicy. 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  128. @ tarn good points re the age, although I don’t know that jumping on the carousel at 43 is any less worse than at 23? And as for fwb, I bond. I don’t think I could have a steady fwb and then still be seeking/open to/looking for quality ltr/mmp guy. It just seems, errr, too complex.

    Liked by 1 person

  129. Liz says:

    “I do wonder if partaking of libido satisfying activities with someone you’re attracted to might at least relieve some tension and help you see things clearer?”

    Hm. Dear future spouse/LTR:
    “While I was waiting to find you, I took up a partner I had no longterm interest in, in order to engage in libido satisfying activities until I met you…”

    I’m not terribly sophisticated in the sexual marketplace, having been removed from it but I think that might turn a few takers off (unless the partner was another woman I guess). I’d stick to my aqua man fantasy and the T Rex showerhead.

    Liked by 2 people

  130. Tmi but I don’t need a fwb to satisfy my libido. I can do that myself. Which keeps me out of trouble during times of… It’s just more fun the other way!

    Liked by 1 person

  131. SFC Ton says:

    The SMP is a shit sandwich and I get Bloom’s attempt to navigate it but concur with BV it is unlikely to play out her way. Bloom is a looker, and no doubt sincere in her desires and intentions but unicorn hunting is pretty damn difficult, more so for women then men. Probably are more masculine versions of unicorn then women, but masculine unicorns have more options and my overt reasons to beware.

    I’d imagine Bloom’s best market is men 15 years older or so, mostly as they seem to be the only tradcons left. Tradcons my age tend to be semi aware even if they cannot put it all together.

    I do not think a man can be a tradcon and red pill aware; they are mutually exclusive world views. Lestwise for me. To be fully aware of reality, to completely embrace truth about men, women, history, race politics etc required the destruction of modern thought and realization of how my socon/tradcon upbringing distorted reality, failed md and was a failed concept. As a hillbilly I didn’t have as much modern thought to shit can as a lot of men. UMC/ middle class tradcon men probably have a lot more bullshit to unpack.

    Cill/ Bloom hit another disconnect. Sunken chest drummer boy has social proof and the strength to cut his own path, ignoring society’s script etc. That by passes her conscious mind and speaks right to the lady parts at the monkey/ lizard brain level. So does over head pressing 365 but in different manners. Different sides of the same coin. It can be difficult for overtly masculine men to grasp this but wo-men are not men. We determine who the AMOG is (womnn have some impact on that) but vaginas dictate which sort of men are alpha to that particular gash. And it makes sense women are programmed to see alpha in a variety of ways. There is a limited number of men who can be alpha in any particular manner. If BV, Cill/ Moe Man and myself are hunting in the same bar it is unlikely BV & myself would be in competition for the same women as we will trigger different responses in different chicks. Cill and I would likely be in competition for some of the same women, as would BV and Cill. Create some mystical man who has BV’s up scale bidness experience/ literary vibe, Cills pragmatic no shit super mechanic vibe, my bad boy etc vibe and all three of our’s very different risk taking/ thrill and said mythical man would sweep the bar of all the decent tail.

    These things don’t necessarily make sense at 1st but are rational when you remove yourself from the equation. One of the big name man o spehre dudes helped me work that out and I too had to stop defining things based on how I want the world to be. Trust me it sucks to lose out on some HB 9 to a sunken chest dweeb who weighs less then you one hand overhead press but such is life and it isn’t personal. Early post divorce I lost out on that sort of thing and it sucked ass. Loved fucking that bitch and she is one of the very few who didnt complain about how often I want to stick it to her but fighting reality is always a losing battle.( I banged her best friends and sister and she got fat so I still won in the long run) I value men based on the if I want them around when the SHTF pov. Don’t mean women/ the world has to

    Fuzzie, take heart. Most men can go from bitch to bull in 2 years, give or take, ifing they desire. You do not have to be mythical man a few lines up.

    There are men who never will much improve their standing but for the most of men, a little game/social skill, a little mma(improved physical conditioning, little bad boy/ tough guy cred), a bike and some spending cash will put him in the steady diet of banging 6’s level of smp value.

    Personally I think women like Bloom have it much harder in the finding smp success then most of that unnoticed 80-65% of men.

    Liked by 1 person

  132. No batteries required even! (Omg stop typing!!!) ok you all will just have to figure out how that’s possible on your own.

    Farm Boy are you working up that MMP post so we can move along here before I totally derail? Um, yeah, awkward… Thanks!

    Liked by 1 person

  133. Choicy says:

    Bloom any man who gives you advice is simply speaking for himself. Speaking for myself I’m going to concur with Cillo. I think we men from Down Under are a bit different from the Americans and Poms. I’m a joker who has no droughts when it comes to the old how’s your father and Cillo never had to look hard for action if he wanted it. The course you are taking would be right for me if I was in the market for LTR or marriage and it has already proved right with Cillo and now wee Molly’s bloke as well.

    This is my and Cillo’s opinions as only two alpha blokes from Down Under. For what it’s worth you would be right in our book. I think there’s a distinct danger you are hearing too many opinions, so I doubt my input has helped you Bloom.

    Liked by 1 person

  134. “Personally I think women like Bloom have it much harder in the finding smp success then most of that unnoticed 80-65% of men.”

    Yes. This. Thank you for seeing my plight too. It is a shit sandwich.


  135. Tarnished says:


    Like I said…I’m removed from this stuff and pretty naive. Just trying to figure out exactly what BV meant, lol. If not having sex is seen as a shit test, then is having sex also a shit test? Is this a case of Schrodinger’s Pussy…cat? 😉

    Maybe there is no actual answer, since men…like all people…are individuals. My lover doesn’t agree with this side of the RP, and thinks women should engage in casual sex like a man IF they truly want to. Other men think a N of more than 2-3 is a filthy slut, and still more think men should be the only ones who don’t have to be virgins upon marriage. It takes all kinds, and all kinds there certainly are!


  136. Cill says:

    Tarn hypergamy has turned the SMP into an irretrievable mess.

    I’m going to disagree with my mate Choicy and say there are never too many opinions. I learned a lot by sifting through a diverse range of opinions and taking some on board. Information is power.

    Liked by 2 people

  137. Liz says:

    I think your fwb is unusual there, Tarn. For most men in relationships, a history of sexual profligacy is a minus. Not always disqualifying, but a big minus. Make sense biologically. They’ve had surveys asking men whether they’d rather their spouse “cheat” emotionally or physically and most men say emotionally, whereas with women it’s 180 out and they prefer their spouses cheat physically to emotionally.
    That, too makes biological sense…women primarily fear abandonment and men fear cuckoldry.

    Liked by 5 people

  138. Cill says:

    “Is this a case of Schrodinger’s Pussy…cat?”
    I reckon.
    Feminism itself is a Schrodinger’s Pussy fucking cat. (I’m not using “fucking” as an expletive there)
    A bit like the way Liz’s cat blows a frog.

    Liked by 2 people

  139. Yoda says:

    Interesting this thread is.
    Stimulates the brain cells it does.
    Good this would be.

    Liked by 3 people

  140. Yoda says:

    So serious this all is.
    Throwing people into a tiz
    More poetry need we do
    For it can better a world view

    Liked by 2 people

  141. SFC Ton says:

    Tarn if you think you are removed from all this, you are more naive then you think. You have a FwB so you are in the SMP. Everything is in play. Perhaps to a very limited degree for you, but its there any which way. The only way to be removed is to be a virgin until the day you die, and even then the SMP/MMP will impact your life on the margins.

    I would say BV and I are the kind of men Bloom needs to listen to as we are familiar with the kind of men she wants, the SMP in general and step outside ourselves when discussing general trends. What she want’s is not impossible in the usa, but unlikely to play out the way she would want because… well more factors then I care to take on right now. If she wanted to land a 20 year old play boy billionaire well then we would be talking out our ass(lestwise me), but it seems to me Bloom wants some blend of the kind of men BV and myself use to be, and are now. She is basically wanting some version of our peers, in our age range etc etc.

    Bloom is stuck on a few things. What BV laid out is Gospel, but part of the problem is defining “slut”. When the definition of more then one cock in a life time equaled slut, it was damn easy to define. Now? Not so much and that will vary from man to man. No good answer there, and yes it is a damned if you do and damned if you don’t equation.

    Tarn is pretty much spot on with the age thing, but a tradcon type of dude is going to be turned off by a FwB in her past. It is what it is. He knows she has been married, probably expects a variety of LTR’s in her past that were in fact sexual, and maybe a ONS or two but a FwB situation is a deliberate long term decision and likely to be a turn off vs a ONS being a not repeated mistake in her youth. The kind of man who has to accept a high N count women in a LTR/ MMP is not generally the kind of man women want. I am certain there are high value men who wouldn’t care about a sexual past, but again probably not many.

    The MMP/SMP are intertwined but also divergent. Hot is hot, n count doesn’t matter in a ONS and other things matter in the MMP that do not matter to men in the SMP. If a girl wants a LTR/ MMP value that is what she needs to play up. If she doesn’t care and wants to stay in the SMP, well that allows her a great deal of freedom of action, which will count against her when she decides to lane change. Not sure how that is difficult to understand. A girl who wants to be a virgin bride still has to play the SMP game to a limited degree( be sexually attractive) to land her MMP man. As Liz said, it is a balancing act. Frankly it sucks ass for the honest actors, men and women.

    Advice darling? You are not running a sniper op, nor do you have a crew served weapon set up to provide final protective fire. Tarn isn’t wrong about no answer, but you have to increase your potential/ value and do what maximizes your options in LTR/ marriage minded men. You already realize time is not your friend. Don’t really have anything new to add. A dude 10-15 years older then you, off set your personal liabilities( which we kicked around before and I won’t do so in a public forum again) To most men you will look like all the other lane changers out there; figure out a way to reduce the cost of dating you, fiscal and opportunity costs; a way to display you are a sexual being. don’t have a history of getting headaches all the while withholding sex for your best mental/ emotional health/ moral grounds etc and a more realistic idea of the kind of man you can pull for a LTR. The kind of men you are hunting are the kind of men who are likely high demand in the MMP(greater beta/ lesser alpha), and as older men, most likely aware of the downsides of relationships… older men with a divorce and other nasty experiences. You have a lot to over come.

    I won’t say settle for a beta because that’s bad advice.

    Been a lot easier on you if your brother took the trade

    Liked by 2 people

  142. Liz says:

    “More poetry need we do”

    Asked and answered! 😛
    Marian Burns poem/song:

    Marian Burns is the queen of all the acrobats
    She can do tricks that will give a guy the shits
    She can roll a green pea down a fundamental orifice,
    Do a double somersault and catch it with her tits!

    She’s a great mean sonofabitch
    Twice the size of me!
    Hair on her ass like the branches on a tree,

    She can fight, fish, fly, fuck,
    Roll a barrel, drive a truck
    Marian Burns is the gal for me….

    Liked by 3 people

  143. BuenaVista says:

    RPG: “I just dont want to fuck every frog who presents himself in hopes he’ll turn into a prince.”

    This is a straw man and has nothing to do with what I wrote. It is derisive as well as misplaced.

    Perhaps you think all men are “frogs” until they prove otherwise, so it’s a logical statement for you; but again, it’s a blatant logical fallacy if you are responding to what I wrote; it is is more female self-pedestalizing.

    In any event, I don’t think all men are frogs until proven otherwise, and for that reason, I didn’t suggest, in any way, that “you fuck every [man-]frog who presents himself in hopes he is a magical frog who turns into a prince.”

    If you think that I wrote or think that, you have reading comprehension issues. Since you are a professional writer, I suspect you just have a cognitive blind spot, consistent with advancing a tradcon ideal while insisting you want a red pill dude. Circles cannot be squared.

    Liked by 1 person

  144. BuenaVista says:

    RPG: “Bv what would you suggest I do then? How would you play my hand, were you me?”

    You’ve been reading around enough. You need a filter for men. Everything you’re writing now suggests you have no idea what you’re looking for; fmi, see your “all men are frogs, ewww” remark above. Plus all the cheap shots you’re taking at Mr. Smith, which is what teenagers do in dance halls.

    Instead, develop a filter of 3-5 attributes that comprise a successful match. This will be your model. The model must fit your prior successful relationships. Then apply the model to men you meet. And stop treating all men like “frogs” because it’s repellent, and you’ll lose opportunities.

    Next, discard the usual feminist bullshit about finding someone your own age. It’s always possible, but you are reducing the market by 95%. Don’t get me started on the inanity of pairing up with someone younger than you, unless you are just a closet feminist dominatrix. A 45 year-old guy of quality is pulling women, routinely, 10-15 years younger. Reality bites, but that’s the way it is. Men are visual, the dick doesn’t lie. Women’s bodies change as do their magical vaginas.

    Last, you need to swallow the red pill. The red pill knows that we don’t get to have normal family lives. Feminism has killed that, society has instantiated that, quality men have paid their dues, and Ozzie and Harriet were murdered, their heads placed on pikes. So you need to look at a lifestyle of intimacy and care that excludes financial and legal peril for the man, has boundaries our parents never considered, and develops … slowly over time. I offered you the same advice last fall, incidentally. That deal was being rushed to closing, and the dude freaked.

    Liked by 2 people

  145. Tarnished says:

    Tarn if you think you are removed from all this, you are more naive then you think.

    Which is absolutely possible, maybe even probable. It is to a limited degree though…certainly more limited than those who wish to be in the MMP instead. Changing lanes, as you describe, sounds very difficult to manage and I sympathize with anyone attempting to do so. Balancing acts, indeed.

    I think your fwb is unusual there, Tarn.

    Oh, I don’t think…I know. 😉 It’s one of his great qualities.
    Honestly though, could it be due to his not caring about having kids? He got a vasectomy at age 32, the earliest his doc would do it. If a guy knows that far ahead of time that sex is more important to him than procreation, that would explain why he didn’t/doesn’t care about his partners history. He has stated that he wouldn’t date a woman with kids, and is obviously much more concerned about STD risks, even before his snip.


  146. BuenaVista says:

    Tarn, I’m sure you’re a lovely person, but (by your own self-description) you don’t know anything about relationships or marriage. You’re in a FwB fuckbuddy deal with all of the drama and risk of a Saturday morning cartoon. You have no children. You’ve not taken any legal, financial, emotional risk in your FwB deal.

    We got into this before; I have no idea why you reference yourself as a witness and expert on matters you have deliberately excluded — totally — from your life.

    Also, you don’t read very well — but you mimic Bloom’s ‘fuck every frog’ sentiment — if you think I suggested promiscuity. (“BV’s advice turns Bloom into a slut — OH MY WORD!”) I suggested she decide if she wants tradcon, go tradcon. If she wants redpill, go redpill. The two are not compatible.

    But spare us the “I want it all!!!!” bullshit. Women have been saying they can have it all for 40 years now. It’s boring, false, and pointless. Men know that life involved choices by age 10.

    Liked by 1 person

  147. Tarnished says:

    A 45 year-old guy of quality is pulling women, routinely, 10-15 years younger. Reality bites, but that’s the way it is.

    Didn’t we find on another thread that those in the MMP/are already married generally have 3-7 years between partners, but those in the SMP/uncommitted relationships have 9-15?

    It does check out in regards to reality. I’m 31 (as of last month)…he’s 46. We’re in our 9th year “together”, so despite it not being on a marriage route, something is working.


  148. BuenaVista says:

    More bullshit:

    Tarn: “Do post-divorce tradcon men in their 40s still desire a woman with a low N? Or are they now more interested in other traits?”

    Like you know any and have something to offer here.

    Post-divorced tradcon men in their 40’s just want to be loved “for themselves”, which is newspeak for “why can’t I cry on your shoulder?”

    However, they will be trying to connect with someone 10-15 years younger than Bloom, which is another feminist trope you’re repeating (i.e., that Bloom should target mid-40’s tradcons who magically are masculine and rockin’ good in the sack).

    Liked by 2 people

  149. BuenaVista says:

    “It does check out in regards to reality. I’m 31 (as of last month)…he’s 46. We’re in our 9th year “together”, so despite it not being on a marriage route, something is working.”

    You’re not “together”. You fuck periodically. But thanks for the advice on relationships.

    Liked by 1 person

  150. Tarnished says:


    Hence why I put “together” as I did in quotations.

    Why I repeatedly have stated I’m naive and have no real input other than trying to help Bloom dissect what *you*…who does have relevant knowledge…meant.

    Why I openly *asked* what tradcon guys want/seek. That wasn’t me saying I know any or have anything to offer. It was a honest, literal question because I don’t know.

    And no, you did not suggest promiscuity, but that could be an accidental possibility if she tried to look for a mythical RP Tradcon. Also, do not put words in my mouth or try to twist what I’ve said. At absolutely no point in time did I refer to men as lesser beings or say that sex is to be pedestalized. I would never say that. It is a horrible way to look at healthy sexuality.

    Same thing is happening here as when we butted heads at Bloom’s blog, and why I do not comment there anymore. You are reading between lines that don’t exist. It would be preferable if you asked for clarification than to blur my words (which, btw, is likely unintentional). We’ve been getting along well since you started commenting here, and I do not want to get into an unnecessary argument. Please, as one adult to another, know that I only say what I mean and 99% of the time my questions are actual questions. Ok?


  151. Tarnished says:

    Now, have a good day everyone. I’m to work for the next 10 hours.


  152. BuenaVista says:

    Tarn, we have not been getting along. I ignore your comments because they do not inform, and merely reference your personal experience as a woman in an arms-length casual relationship with no future implications; i.e., it’s irrelevant to any discussion of relationships, children and the State. You have ignored mine, kindly, presumably because they do not inform any issue you care about.

    If you detect annoyance, it’s because men like Ton and me have had our lives taken apart by SJWs who assert all lifestyles are the same, and hey, what’s the diff between a FwB, polygamy, same-sex free-for-alls, and a marriage in which a man dedicates his life to his family and gets poleaxed by the culture and the State. We’re just supposed to be happy motherfuckers because we’re still breathing and not in jail. Moral equivalency, which is implied in every comment you make on LTRs, is evil; moral equivalency is an oxymoron.

    If you want to learn something about how men and women interact in the SMP/MMP, or how a woman like Bloom succeeds in the MMP, try reading and contemplating. It’s just absurd in the present discussion to be critically read by someone who has no experience, interest or insight into the problems Bloom is describing. I drive a car, but I never gave Nikki Lauda advice.

    Thanks for telling us that your fuckbuddy got a vasectomy at 32.

    Liked by 3 people

  153. Spawny Get says:

    Can we cool things down a little, please?


  154. @ bv I am glad the last one bolted. It sucked at the time but I am glad we didn’t marry if divorce was going to be the end result.

    I do not view all men as frogs, I was playing with words and the idea (from the smp, not implying you advised such) that all dating has to go sexual ASAP. Before people even know each other. Before people care about each other. Not caring seems to be the preferred route – that nobody gets attached or expects it to “be” anything. I can think of probably 5 guys right now who are all good looking and successful w the ladies who would be happy to have that relationship w me, and have clearly said as much. These are all successful guys who have options. I guess the question is, why is that not enough? Why do women want more? Even if they may say going in it’s no strings, few seem to be able to resist that moment where “where is this going?” comes up. There’s something biological about it and I know it which is why I don’t go into no strings, bond, want more, then rinse and repeat. I have seen too many other women get nowhere w that strategy. And again, I realize that’s not what you are saying. Your post was fairly visceral, perhaps I reacted to the tone or something and missed the message.

    In any case Ton I do believe in some ways the trade route (which was not uncommon and still happens in parts of the world today) worked on some level. It is a variation on sex for commitment. The man traded goods for the woman, who then became his property, he got sex and babies and labor (and sometimes love) and she had a place to stay forever.
    Maybe this idea of romantic love is part of it all. Maybe romantic love and feelings do not drive the best or most enduring pairings. The trade lacks romance (although I suppose a man would not offer trade for a woman he didn’t desire pretty strongly)so may e it was more romantic than it seems in today’s day and age? Remember, today all that is painted as “misogyny” and “oppression” and “sexual slavery.” But better from a female point of view to be one mans sex slave than to be a real sex slave passed among many. That second option seems like hell on earth to me.

    I guess I may still be clinging to the purple pill of true wuv. I will think on it.

    Liked by 1 person

  155. Spawny Get says:

    I recognise the different histories of the people on this blog. There’s no party line. Read the comments that you want to read, ignore the others. I do it all the time on other blogs. On this blog I seldom read the poetry, for example.

    I absolutely understand the rage of a man raped in the family courts, who had his kids ripped from him on the words of a fucking lying bitch that he had loved. I have experience of the lying bitch bit and have little trouble envisaging what my life could have been like with just an accident of birth control. I was even told by my wife around a week before the decree absolute came through that she wanted my kids. I hear you, I understand you.

    Tarn has horrific experiences in her past that could have extremely easily, naturally have turned her into a man hater with a past that no one could deny her her hatred. I am certain that she lets things slide on a regular basis. I have seen it happen on other blogs. Tarn is not your enemy. If she were in judgement over you in family court I am convinced she’d actually enforce the letter of the law (as opposed to the misandric shit that goes down in reality).

    Maybe you forget the 2-3 decades of age difference between us and Tarn? That also produces different world views.


  156. BuenaVista says:

    Spawny, feel free to ban me. I am consistently fair, reticent, and logical. When I am not, I apologize, and I’ve never had to do that here. I don’t post youtube videos about cute furry animals, granted, but I thought this was a red pill blog that occasionally produced provocative thoughts. I happen to know more than the average person about today’s subject matter. If it’s of no interest, because I’m not hugging it out while reading total bullshit, just ban me. I don’t care.

    There are a million blogs out there where women can instruct men on how to behave, and detail how men are frogs (and kissing them makes one a princess) and FwB is a relationship of relevance to relationship-minded men. If this is going to become one of them, cool.


  157. BuenaVista says:

    Oh, wa-wa-wa. Do I have to post my personal catastrophes to be granted credibility? Is this just another place where people nod solemnly and say, “That must have been so painful”? Who cares.


  158. And ps bv I don’t want to fight w you or anyone. I know you have had your life ripped to shreds in the mmp. I cannot imagine how postal I would be in the situation my kids were suddenly just gone and no amount of money or lawyers could make that right. No parent should ever be in that situation, your ex is incredibly selfish to put her own needs above those of her child. I hope everyday that situation will somehow change for you. I think you and I both have said marriage itself means nothing if those involved and the society around them don’t believe marriage is a commitment forever more. Commitment, true commitment, means more than marriage. It sounds like that is what you offered your neighbor but she could also not get past the “marriage” idea. It’s bigger than me or you or any of us. All we can do is sift through the smp wreckage and try to do the best we can with the bits and pieces of what was once a pretty functional whole.


  159. Spawny Get says:

    I don’t wish to ban you, BuenaVista.

    “Do I have to post my personal catastrophes to be granted credibility?”

    No. But you have credibility. I read your divorce stories. I’m just saying that rage is understandable. Not that of a clown, that of someone who’s been through it. I can’t see how anyone cannot see the difference.

    I’m sorry if it sounds like pity, or ridicule about anyone. It truly wasn’t meant as that. My divorce took me to extremes and that was ‘just’ the feeling of betrayal and failure. No kids involved, no financial issues of any scale. But I got very close to…enough said.

    My point was that while I have always made plain that I got off quite lightly compared to other stories that I hear and believe, but I experienced enough that even with a limited imagination such as I have, I can put myself ‘there’

    I’ll delete any comments of yours that you give a link to.

    I’ve not read all the comments, I have no interest in doing so. I am only interested in stopping things getting too personal. As I would if anyone else, even you, were the target. I have defended males here before, maybe not in public, but I have cooled tempers behind the scenes.

    Clearly you can leave (and return) if you want to, I don’t see why you’d want me to ban you. You seem perfectly aware of your actions (maybe with a little delay after the event).

    I consider Tarn a personal friend. I will absolutely defend Tarn. But I’m completely uninterested in being vindictive about it. I will do the minimum required to calm things down. I would defend you, whether you needed it or not (let’s be honest, you wouldn’t).


  160. missattempts says:

    Do you know what it’s like to come to a blog and discover that the others are
    speaking Hudustanni? It’s quite literally that I occupy I different world from all the
    others here.
    You all are from civilazation. I occupy the world that Eliot Rodger and George
    Soldini occupied. A life of a blessedly short lifespan.
    You KNOW what you’re giving up. I never had it to give up to begin with.


  161. Cill says:

    FB how are we placed for posts? I’ve been chewing over a boring topic – just the thing for a weekend. I guess we should discuss it in WRITER’S CORNER


  162. Cill says:

    Buggar, it’s closed.


  163. Spawny Get says:

    Give me 5 minutes. It’s just an ‘old’ post so the comments are auto-closed.

    Done, it’s on the front page


  164. Yoda says:

    Promised MMP for today FB did.
    Defer he could


  165. Cill says:

    At risk of repetition:

    Liked by 1 person

  166. SFC Ton says:

    Yup Tarn all the various natural laws are always in play. Doesn’t matter if we pay attention to them or no. The laws of thermodynamics and fluid dynamics affect every moment of our lives, but who thinks on them much?

    Romantic love is THE problem. The idea feelting moments of emotions should drive our actions is utterly insane. Most def something a man cannot afford to buy into. Or a woman on the wrong side of 30. You are still a looker, generally pro masculine and otherwise have your shit together. What you are lacking is a firmer grasp of the reality you are dealing with. I think you will do better then all right if you get that last piece of the puzzle in place. Heck, do it soon enough and some man will still be able to enjoy your physical beauty for a few years; one of the big issues for me is that trade off. At 45 my SMP/MMP value is still on the rise, likely for a goodly number of years yet, while any 45 year old lady is on the decline. This has to do with the differences men and women value about the opposite sex and not a statement of value on any individual as an individual

    Missattempts should come live at Camp Ton for awhile.

    Liked by 2 people

  167. Spawny Get says:

    “I occupy I different world from all the others here.”

    mmm, I don’t know about that being entirely accurate.

    There’s a lot of power in ‘just ceasing to give a shit about women for relationship purposes’

    Once you do that, a lot of heat goes out of many things. I recently had a dust up with a person (male name, but…) on a UK newspaper website. I suspect ‘his’ screen was phlegm specked by the end, I mostly felt sorry for the gullible prat. Crazy and/or dumb. Sometimes it’s hard to tell which.

    I know how this might sound, but I swear to you that popping your cherry is not the pinnacle of one’s life. If it weren’t for your religious convictions, I’d suggest you go somewhere hot and pay a nice lady.


  168. Good advice Ton. It’s true I am still attractive enough to get attention is true, and am told I am one the rare ones who is getting better looking with age. But I agree, times a wasting.


  169. Missattempts consider Tons offer. He makes men for a living. Thing is, even dysfunction that causes unhappiness is tolerated if it serves some purpose. Have you pondered the purpose your not taking the steps necessary to change your state is serving? Accepting failure as a mistaken attempt to avoid the risk of failure, perhaps?


  170. BuenaVista says:

    Spawny, I have no “rage” and have expressed none. This is either a red pill blog or it’s not. If unpleasant observations equal “rage”, it’s not. Accusing people of being irrational (“rage”) because they don’t hug it out on obvious issues, indicates it’s not. Bloom asking for advice, and then not responding to it but offering to improve one’s tone, indicates it’s not.


  171. BV honestly it came off to me as a bit hot under the collar, your initial post. Of course types comments are tricky, I could misinterpret your emotional state due to things like inability to see body language or hear tone, plus some rather strong and dramatic word choice. Trust me I am ok with strong and dramatic word choice, so long as it is not directed at me as a personal berratement. We are all doing our best to figure all this out in a way that works for us as individuals. I am sure I am making mistakes, and appreciate constructive critique (even unsolicited) but I am not a, (intentional) man hating, ball busting, shit testing, frog accusing, diva of a princess who seeks a traditional committed loving relationship for it’s sake alone, not so that I can shiv the [poor stupid bastard that I lure to his doom just so I can be alone again, older, with that baggage too. Or at least I think myself not. Perhaps I am wrong and AWALT.

    Am I over selective? Wouldn’t that be better than the opposite? Or shall I call Mr. Smith now and do my best to prove myself worthy of his no strings, no commitment, “woot-woot party time” lean in fun-ness?

    So Ton, you already traded that bike so what was the other you had, a softtail? BV, shall I send you those practice selfies? Heck — Sumo, you aren’t all that far away. Farm Boy? Fuzzie? Yoda (what the heck! Mrs. Yoda can suck up one glorious indiscretion after 900 years, yes?) then this winter I could probably make it on down under, get me some Moe Man, Padawan, Cillo, Choicey ood times, then hit Europe to see if I can lure old Spawny out for a drink and some times he’ll never forget? Then there is Yohami, Sir Nemisis, the j4Guys…that could go on for awhile, from there I will go after the really BIG game, Roosh, Heartiste, random special ops guys, an athlete or two. Gosh then… world leaders? I’d wrap up the tour with a bask in Rollo’s splendor but not actually bag him because I respect his wife. Golly, YOU ARE RIGHT!!! How did I never see this before? And here I am being all down in the dumps about being lonely. Duh! And who knows, maybe somewhere along the way I’d fond “the one” and we’d live happily ever after!

    (PS that was an attempt at humor, in case not obvious. No offense to any mentioned. Especially Mrs. Yoda, who may have female jedi powers.)

    Liked by 1 person

  172. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I haven’t finished catching up on all the comments but, here is the video that I saw last night that set me off. While Jenna Marbles is not much good for anything beyond eye candy, she does make it obvious how much she HATES Nice Guys, read as beta.
    A couple of winters ago, there was a Tmblr page called “The NIce Guys of OkCupid”. Needless to say, they got trashed. The Nice Guys countered with agirl version. Thankfully, it all stopped when OkCupid claimed ownership of the copied material.
    For your viewing pleasure, here is jenna Marbles being taken down.

    If this is what passes for high value American women, may God help us.


  173. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I Hope the 3D printer is making a second showerhead for you. It’s Ok for Mom to like dinosaurs too.

    Thanks for putting a good word for an unnamed bear.

    Who, in their right mind, would want to put a bear in a headlock and punch him in the nose? That’s courting trouble and we’re all past doing that.

    Liked by 1 person

  174. Spawny Get says:

    Over on WC, someone is harbouring suspicions that FB and Yoda might be linked in some convoluted, surreptitious manner…you can’t make this ridiculous stuff up.

    Liked by 1 person

  175. theasdgamer says:

    @ Bloom

    What BV and Ton said. Have a filter of 3-5 realistic attributes. Financial stability (heh, leaves me out, except for my IRA, low debt, and my hope of selling my books), good health (I’m fine there), and some other attributes like not already married (dang, I failed that one!) and not a Dark Triad psychopath con-artist who will steal your stuff.

    Red Pill:

    1. If he’s really hot, you’ll be sleeping with him on date 1. Else he will next you.

    2. You can’t pull enough men on your own to find someone that passes your filter, barring divine Providence or stupid good luck.

    3. You can’t filter for alphas who are about your age. Plan on 15 years older. And count yourself blessed if you find one who will go into a LTR with you.

    4. You won’t get marriage barring a hyper-religious ex-PUA who recently converted or became a widower, but you can get a LTR if you are sweet and mate-guard yourself.

    5. If God cared about you getting married, you’d already be married. Either the time wasn’t right for His plan or else it’s your responsibility to find your man. I vote for the second reason.

    The Plan

    Filter before you meet hawt guys if you don’t want to sleep with a lot of men.

    Draw a whooooole lotta men through your filter. Make sure that a trusted friend double-checks the results before you meet any man. Maybe have that friend meet the prospective man first.

    You need either a website or a marriage broker to get the kind of numbers that you will need to find a man to pass your filter.

    Best wishes.


  176. Spawny Get says:

    Or sweet talk a bear.

    Liked by 1 person

  177. BuenaVista says:

    RPG: “I am sure I am making mistakes, and appreciate constructive critique (even unsolicited) but I am not a, (intentional) man hating, ball busting, shit testing, frog accusing, diva of a princess who seeks a traditional committed loving relationship for it’s sake alone, not so that I can shiv the [poor stupid bastard that I lure to his doom just so I can be alone again, older, with that baggage too.”

    I have always treated you with respect, care and concern. I see there is no reason to interact further. You clearly know what you’re doing and my remarks have no bearing. Carry on.


  178. Yoda says:

    Over on WC

    WC what would that be?

    Liked by 1 person

  179. Cill says:

    On WC Yoda being succinct is
    Teach brevity to FB he should.

    Liked by 1 person

  180. BuenaVista says:

    Kitten video, yay, so cute:

    No, I’m not going to post a furry kitten video and say how much I love everybody’s unique perspective and anyway, it’s because their lives have been so hard, and wa-wa-wa-wa-wa.

    This thread reminds me of the married Delta captain who checked into a hotel in Lagos and immediately transitioned to facetiming me while she did a prone strip-tease followed by some porn-quality self-pleasuring. Two days later she texted me and said, Don’t text me! You are so disrespectful!

    I replied, This is too much projection for 9 a.m. I feel so unsafe! You’re bullying me!

    There is nothing red pill about you, Bloom. You solicit the truth. But. You can’t handle the truth.

    If you want to sit in your acreage and wait for a magical red pill man who offers tradcon behavior and won’t try to kiss you because he knows he’s a frog — have a ball. It no doubt will be fun to have Mr. Smith to run down while you friendzone his roommate and tell us how it’s so hard to be single.

    Liked by 2 people

  181. […] BuenaVista on Red Pill Classroom – The SMP […]


  182. theasdgamer says:

    Is Fuzzie a hot guy to Bloom? No offense, Fuzzie.


  183. Cill says:

    What “Kitten video”?

    Liked by 1 person

  184. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    This thread blew up and I wasn’t here to participate.

    Your insight is valued. Somehow this all got too personal.
    By the way, the bear videos are for comic relief. Cheaper than booze and won’t give you a headache.

    Nobody else has mentioned the obvious. You are paddling upstream. While everyone else in your age range is dumping a spouse or getting over being dumped, you are looking for long term.
    Would that define a niche market?

    Liked by 2 people

  185. Yoda says:

    New post there is.


  186. Tarnished says:

    She looks like she’s drunk, she has a voice that could be nice but comes off as grating, she obviously doesn’t know any nice guys, she thinks D&D or being ununemployed in this wretched economy is a core negative quality, and she sneers constantly.
    I grade her at a 1/10. What a bitch.

    You made an excellent point at 12:43 regarding Bloom. She is looking while others are dumping. Not an easy place to be.

    So Bloom should look for either an alpha OR a tradcon, as it’s difficult to find both. Makes sense. (She could also try meeting someone with an ursine personality…)

    Are marriage brokers like modern day matchmakers? Quick, to the google machine!

    If he’s really hot, you’ll be sleeping with him on date 1. Else he will next you.
    Serious question: Why would she? To attempt to secure a bit of commitment or because she’ll be unable to “control herself”?


  187. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Isn’t she awful. I think that one of the main points of the video is that these women actually belive that being hawt excuses them for this behavior. She is very attractive until she opens her mouth. Then, all the boys are running from the room.

    Liked by 2 people

  188. Tarnished says:

    If they have any self respect they certainly are. My heart breaks for any orbiters she might have…
    How on earth did it come to this, Fuzzie? It’s a pile of train wrecks on top of a 10 car pileup.


  189. thedeti says:

    I have to agree with Ton, BV and asdgamer, bloom.

    Your tradcon prince, red pill and mid-40s, is not coming to you on bended knee with a ring.

    He will never come to you.

    If by some twist of fate such a man does present, he will be one of the three: red pill, OR mid 40s, OR tradcon/marriage minded.

    If he is red pill, you can absolutely forget about legal marriage. If he is red pill, he will likely be divorced. Marriage will be out of the question. Not. Gonna. Happen. Not now, not ever.

    And since he will be a Quality Man, he will ghost if sex is not on the table IMMEDIATELY. As in first date. If you won’t sleep with him, he’ll find some other good looking 40somethings who will give it up right away. He won’t wait for sex with you.

    I know you’re concerned about upping your N, and this puts girls in a bind: Sleep with the hotties and up your N; or hold out and risk losing the hotties to girls who will put out. Tough. That’s the market; those are real time conditions on the ground. That’s how it’s going to be for Quality Men.

    A tradcon prince who is marriage minded will be at least 5 to 10 years older. He will be marriage minded and will rush to closing, because he will want to get to sex right away. If he has half a brain he will demand that you sign a prenup. But, alas, he will be a frog, and you won’t want sex with him.

    A mid-40s guy who will be interested in you will want sex right away but you’ll find he has few options and is not Quality. Thus you’ll be even less interested in him than you are Mr. Tradcon.

    I can tell you that I am close to your target age (47). I can also tell you that if I were single right now and on the market, a woman of your age would, in order for me to consider her, have to be very physically attractive, financially self-sufficient, and have at most only one child living with her. I would keep my interactions with the child to an absolute minimum. If we were to live together, the child would live full time with its father, and not with us. I have absolutely NO intention of becoming a de facto father to yet another child, nor would I expend one thin dime to support said child. Legal marriage? Out of the question. Commingling assets? Out of the question.

    I am not even all that attractive or desirable. Yet, those are the terms I would insist upon were I to consider a woman in your age range. Because, you see, anything less than that is too much hassle, too much expense, and too much time at my age and station in life.

    That is the market you face, Bloom. It is a very tough one. Good luck.

    Liked by 2 people

  190. thedeti says:

    Man, I missed a barnburner here today.

    That’s what fucking around with the idiots at reddit Purple Pill Debate gets you.


  191. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    How did it come to this? I think a lot of it can be attributed to the fact that boys really like girls. So, they are inclined to make concessions. Comcessions on top of concessions.

    Liked by 2 people

  192. Yoda says:

    I think a lot of it can be attributed to the fact that boys really like girls. So, they are inclined to make concessions. Comcessions on top of concessions.

    Good summary this is.

    Liked by 2 people

  193. theasdgamer says:

    Serious question: Why would she? To attempt to secure a bit of commitment or because she’ll be unable to “control herself”?

    If the man is hot, she will be “in the moment” ™ and sleep with him or else he will next her. It’s not rocket science.


  194. theasdgamer says:

    Are marriage brokers like modern day matchmakers?

    A woman will pay them 30K for their services. She will get access to wealthy men. Maybe the MBs can find hot men, too.


  195. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Haven’t we beat up Bloom enough for one day?
    I have to say something in her favor. She is sincere. I don’t hink that she is here to blow smoke.

    Liked by 2 people

  196. Tarnished says:

    If the man is hot, she will be “in the moment” ™ and sleep with him or else he will next her. It’s not rocket science.

    Do only “Alphas” require sex with someone they just met? It seems strange to engage in such a primal and intimate sharing of self with a person you’ve only known for a few hours. Is that truly enough time to understand each others sexual likes/dislikes, or is good communication a must?


  197. Tarnished says:

    Agreed, Fuzzie. Bloom is not the deceitful kind, and has been very open with sharing how her life has turned out.

    Liked by 1 person

  198. theasdgamer says:

    Alphas get sex quickly because they are so very desirable. That’s just biology. “Require” isn’t the right word. Alphas look for sex and keep looking until they get it.

    Rapport actually makes men less desirable. Betas excel at achieving rapport.

    Sexual discovery takes time. First sex isn’t necessarily best sex with another person.


  199. Tarnished says:

    Ok. So they indulge because they can? Sounds like the majority of our species, lol.

    Rapport/understanding/affinity for one’s partner makes men less desirable? Without it, how could one know they are safe/cared about during sex?

    True, but it can be very, very good so long as there’s open communication of desires and boundaries. Or if one has lead up to it over a period of time and had previous talks/sexually inclined sessions. 🙂


  200. Spawny Get says:

    “This is either a red pill blog or it’s not.”

    I didn’t read all of the comments yesterday, I haven’t read many of them today. I have stuff going on in real life that I want to keep the right mindset for. So maybe ‘rage’ as a word was over-cooked. If so, you have my apologies. However, I think we can safely say that you are trying to change the tone of this blog in a determined way.

    Now I know there are red-pill blogs out there where silver backed males strike their chests and proclaim themselves true men that rule their real life like some kind of Aryan Superman. If that’s what you’re after…why not go comment there when you’re in that mood? I don’t have a problem with people shopping for a blog-venue that suits their mood-du-jour. I do it myself.

    Maybe this place is a little affable and easy going, but you know? I think it more closely resembles the real world experiences of most ‘normal’ people. ‘Normal’ people need to process the news, bounce opinions around and work out what’s the best way to raise sons. And daughters for that matter. And unless you want a world where sons cannot find any women who realise the importance of managing their own mind and emotions (or at least having a good go at it) somewhere has to cater for that type of information sharing.

    There are also men looking to work out a way to live, looking to heal a little or just socialise with people with a similar outlook. Lately? That’s pretty much where I’m at. And I like the tone of the blog’s comments

    Farm Boy is in the driving seat regarding content and I have no issue at all with what that is. If you want a little more direct, I can live with that. I’ll read the posts I want to read and comment where I wish to. If you want to write some posts then we can arrange something. Maybe we’ll work out a signal for this post is’nt so much for socialising on / Mi>locker-room. As long as you’re not figuratively stabbing people in the chest with your fore-finger and putting them down, I don’t much care what you want to say. I would point out how easy it is to start a blog of your own, or hook up with Ton and/or Gamer for such posts. I will very happily link to such posts.

    I don’t want to start banning anybody, but at the end of the day, I like a friendly place to socialise and I really don’t see why I shouldn’t be able to chose the tone of my own blog. And let the people vote with their mice and keyboards. I would suggest you either provide post material and we’ll mark them up appropriately, or comment elsewhere when in a feisty mood. Comment here after your port and cigars.

    The reason for the tone is not to allow entryism of females, it’s because I personally do not find being pissed off at the world a very productive place to be emotionally. AFAIAC MGTOW is not a crusading army of permanently angry men, it’s a loose cabal of men aware of what’s going on, trading information and making an acceptable life for themselves. And when they’re in the mood giving gynocentrism the middle finger. I do not believe that society in all it’s ovine glory lead by utterly and willfully incompetent non-entities, is salvageable. I’m saving my energies for what comes next. Or just staying positive in the meantime. You are most free to chose a different path.

    I still do not wish to ban anyone, but I’m just going to disappear comments that piss me off. My blog. If you don’t get any kick out of spending time writing comments that disappear, I suggest that you don’t bother writing them in the first place. Thus saving me the effort of deleting them. Win-win.


  201. BuenaVista says:

    Spawny, you are making a series of speculative assumptions about me and my interior motivations which are untrue. They are also unsubstantiated by anything I’ve written.

    And while I believe I have been entirely respectful (if one considers reasoned examination and discussion of others’ texts — without reference to what I might divine to be their interior motivations — respectful) I do note your absolute authority over your blog. I will cease contributing; you needn’t bother scanning the posts and deciding which of my brief notes warrant deletion.

    This is a fairly typical situation in the sphere when highly charged topics are discussed with male and female contributors. I didn’t think we would get to the “You can’t say that!” stage here, but I suppose I should just close. If you decide to delete this note, please let the other people know what’s happened, as more than a few are good friends, and have been for quite awhile. More than a few of them agreed with me openly, and none challenged the substance of anything I have written.


  202. theasdgamer says:

    Rapport/understanding/affinity for one’s partner makes men less desirable? Without it, how could one know they are safe/cared about during sex?

    Alphas build comfort without using rapport. There are other ways to build comfort…especially kino.

    True, but it can be very, very good so long as there’s open communication of desires and boundaries. Or if one has lead up to it over a period of time and had previous talks/sexually inclined sessions.

    Women prefer the empirical approach to talking about sex. Men try stuff and observe a woman’s reactions. Women may not even know what they like, especially if they are inexperienced, so talking may be counter-productive. The Most Interesting Scientist in the World: “Be scientific, my friends.”


  203. theasdgamer says:

    @ Fuzzie

    Nobody else has mentioned the obvious. You are paddling upstream. While everyone else in your age range is dumping a spouse or getting over being dumped, you are looking for long term.
    Would that define a niche market?

    No, Bloom is not paddling upstream. She is looking for fried ice–as Ton, TheDeti, and Buena Vista have also noted. In her search for fried ice, she has found lots of water vapor, like her last ex or Hercules or Mr. Smith.

    Male unicorns occasionally become available, but they have less time as free agents than female unicorns. Kind of like the life expectancy of anti-matter particles. Does Bloom have what it takes to get a male unicorn? She will be competing with young women with no kids, no ex-husbands, little baggage, no health problems, and with a much higher libido for those male unicorns.

    I have provided a very practical plan to achieve realistic goals for Bloom, but Bloom doesn’t want to put the resources into pursuing it. Bloom gets lots of attention for sex and she confuses this with attention for marriage. Bloom thinks that there are lots of unicorns out there, but really most of them are horses with paper horns taped on.

    Once she is an empty nester, I see cats in Bloom’s future. Sorry, Bloom. Lots of used batteries in the meantime. 😉

    I wish Bloom well.


  204. @ gamer time will tell.

    Liked by 1 person

  205. Spawny Get says:

    Gamer, (this is me being direct, not cunty, FTR)

    As a MGTOW, might I point out that men come in all flavours (yes, you lot misspell that word too).

    You’re trying to save your marriage, and I support your decision. I recognise that you have the legitimate right to determine your best course. If I can help, or this site can help you formulate ideas that work for you, then I am 100% behind that.

    I think that there are a couple of guys on this blog who might regard the eternal single life (with no kids) as a terrible way to live. I encourage them to understand the risks and then make their own path. Choose as best they can (because I damn well do believe that NAWALT. I just don’t see how you tell them apart). Such a guy might well decide that a woman like Bloom is their best option. She has her own means of making a living, she has assets, I hear that’s she’s reet purty. Her attitude to receiving criticism has been exemplary.

    Now I know that the stats are really bad for divorced women looking to marry. I told Bloom that back at the start (on JFG). But not being a complete bastard, merely trying to top out at ‘direct’, I told her the stats and said (something like), “The stats are not on your side. If that is what you want, you should get the hell on with it. Don’t trust that it’ll just happen. Make the best of yourself. Be obvious that you’re sensible and reasonable to the best of your abilities. Signal your availability and the terms of that. Live the deal that you seold if it works out”.

    Could you please tell me what additional good you do by being a bastard about it?

    because that is the bit I fcuking object to.

    best of luck, Bloom.

    Liked by 3 people

  206. Liz says:

    If I were in Bloom’s position, I think I would stay away from pickup scenes. She works with the public and that’s a good way to establish a rapport with someone (yes, I said rapport). That would be the way to determine if she and (said person) got along. If they do, I’d invite the guy for coffee or something like that and see how things go.

    Liked by 3 people

  207. Dragonfly says:

    Bloom I love you and your comments! Any man that gets you is going to love and adore you for eternity.

    Liked by 1 person

  208. Tarnished says:

    Alphas build comfort without using rapport. There are other ways to build comfort…especially kino.

    I’ve seen some PUA videos involving kino/touch. While some women are into it, this could backfire tremendously if it were done to a person like myself. It would have the opposite effect…make me wonder why my personal space was being invaded, and what the deal is with the guy thinking it’s OK to do that.

    Women may not even know what they like, especially if they are inexperienced, so talking may be counter-productive.
    This is true. Being sexual with someone else is different than being sexual with oneself. But talking would still be important, as new things are tried and either kept or discarded. This is important for the guy as well…he could be made uncomfortable just as much if he doesn’t open up and say “hey, I don’t care for that” or “do that, but slower/lighter/etc”.


  209. Dragonfly says:

    @Deti “Your tradcon prince, red pill and mid-40s, is not coming to you on bended knee with a ring”

    I might be wrong… but Bloom seems like the rare and (quite sexually addictive) kind of woman that would not necessarily be completely hung up on “marriage” as it is now. I think she’s more bohemian than that kind of thinking… meaning, I think if she found the right man, just being with him indefinitely, in bliss, especially sexual bliss, would be enough for her. She doesn’t seem like the kind that (at this stage in her life) she’d be all hung up on “I need you to marry me.” She seems more relaxed about it in a healthy way – not a “loose woman” kind of way.

    She does not seem like the sort of woman who would give a harsh ultimatum to a guy that she’s crazy about. She just doesn’t seem that controlling and manipulative (women who give ultimatums are). Accepting a love life together that would mean commitment without the legal confines of marriage seems enough for her 🙂

    If I was in her place, I think I would accept a red pill man without marriage even though it would go against all the tradcon beliefs of sex outside of marriage etc… maybe it would be foolish, maybe he would leave me, I don’t know… but I don’t think the sexual tension would be able to contain itself if he met my basic requirements of being someone to commit to. We would be insanely happy, even without the rings.

    The gays destroyed the meaning of marriage now anyway in America, and it wasn’t much to begin with besides (Marriage 2.0 does not compare to 1.0).

    Liked by 1 person

  210. Tarnished says:


    For what it’s worth, I think if you remain honest about your needs and desires, plus put yourself out there to the right crowd (as Liz states), you will likely find a good mate. The thing is, it may not be the titled type of relationship you want…We now (finally!) have full marriage equality in our country…but that doesn’t mean you’ll find a *husband*.

    Would it be enough to find a partner, without a ring or marriage certificate?

    Liked by 1 person

  211. Dragonfly says:

    “We now (finally!) have full marriage equality in our country…”

    Sorry Tarnished if I offended you… I have nothing against gay people personally – my beloved dance instructor was gay and he was sooo wonderful, a really good friend too. But when it comes to marriage (or polyamorous marriage or whatever else comes next), that’s just how I felt about it.

    But I do love gay people.

    Liked by 1 person

  212. @ tarn and dragonfly yes, I would be open to a committed relationship that didnt involve marriage necessarily. But a gal should be careful of such arrangements as well because they often become a two or three year serial monogamy thing, rinse and repeat, from what I have seen. That said I know couples this works very well for too. Even marriage does not guarantee commitment anymore for many peoe, so I don’t see a lot of difference…

    Liked by 3 people

  213. Padawan says:

    “You are paddling upstream” (The Bard’s nickname ‘Paddles’ it is) (by Padawan, Blog Laureate 2014 – ?)

    Paddles too paddles in a melancholy way
    Passing paddling pilsters along the way
    In sunshine he paddles when not making hay
    Padawan is paddling in a middling sort of way

    Liked by 3 people

  214. Tarnished says:


    *sees Dragonfly’s comment*

    Oh, lol. No. We’re good. I am still catching up on the more recent comments, and didn’t even see yours til now. I’m not gay, so the new ruling doesn’t affect me personally.

    I’m just happy for other committed adults who are able to get married now. I still don’t think churches should be forced to wed homosexual couples if it goes against their doctrine, but the right for 2 consenting, loving adults to obtain a marriage certificate is secular, not religious. So, I count this as a win given my worldview on separation of church and state.

    You did nothing offensive. 🙂


  215. Tarnished says:


    Yeah. It’s a strange world out there when it comes to relationships. :/


  216. Padawan says:

    Let her Be (by Padawan, Blog Laureate 2014 – ?)

    She set her course and held to it true
    Passing by wrecks held together with goo
    Alone between rocks where the foghorns blew
    She said “Better this, than to end like you.”

    Liked by 1 person

  217. poseidon740 says:

    The age factor hasn’t been addressed. For us older men and women, ages late 30’s, 40’s, 50’s….. the game is totally different. The first reality is that there are no high quality men or women to acquire. The men who were quality by this age and that are available are to hurt to play the quality, patient man game. And women available at this stage are 99% jaded, false, and literally a land mine for men.

    Liked by 1 person

  218. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Not to be critical but, we need to find something encouraging to say to Bloom. I’ll try.
    You’re miles ahead of the competition in terms of attitude.
    You’ll make sandwiches.
    You’re good looking.
    Is that enough for starters?

    Liked by 2 people

  219. Tarnished says:

    Bloom is a good mother, and is raising her daughters as best is possible given their circumstances, which sounds to be better than 90% of other single moms.

    She is financially sufficient and frugal, as well as a successful business owner. This shows a distinct willingness to accept responsibility for the needs of her family and provide for them, rather than relying on Teh Gubmint/welfare.

    Liked by 2 people

  220. Tarnished says:

    She wants and enjoys sexy funtimes. 💋

    Liked by 2 people

  221. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Oh my! Imagine a bear blushing. Fut, seriously, that is a big plus. We did go around on the forty to seventy percent statistic. If it is that bad, men are in a real pickle becausee they can’t tell by looking.


  222. SFC Ton says:

    I got a pretty good LOL @ most of the ladies replies. Lots of go girl herd support.

    Liked by 2 people

  223. Pfffft scfton! 😉


  224. theasdgamer says:

    @ Bloom

    A good friend of mine married a few years ago in his late 50’s. Ex-pilot. Marine. Lots of alpha qualities. Movie star good looks. First time marriage for him. Still, he has some issues. He’s a unicorn. There are a few out there, but they are hard to find.

    Liked by 1 person

  225. theasdgamer says:

    She wants and enjoys sexy funtimes.

    This gives her an edge in the SMP somehow, I guess….


  226. theasdgamer says:

    She wants and enjoys sexy funtimes.

    I want and enjoy sexy funtimes, too. Does this also give me an edge in the SMP? heh


  227. Tarnished says:


    Shouldn’t it give her a distinct advantage in the MMP? It seemed that many here were saying that the curse of getting involved with an older or divorced woman was the hypothetically low/nonexistent libido. The fact that Bloom is ready and willing to unleash her currently unused sexiness on her future mate should negate this danger, no?

    And yes, if you were my mate, your love of sexy funtimes would give you an edge, too. However, I think we both know that is (unfortunately) not how it’s typically viewed.


  228. Sumo says:

    the curse of getting involved with an older or divorced woman was the hypothetically low/nonexistent libido

    Don’t really see how that’s a “curse”; at the first sign of such, I’d hit the road – no harm, no foul. Anyone stoopid enough to stick around for that deserves whatever they get.

    Or don’t get, as the case may be.

    Liked by 1 person

  229. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    There is a lot of conflict about “sexyfuntimes”. I can’t remember if I saw it in the comments or in one of his posts but, one of Dalrock’s kids saw the obvious. While they were sitting down to breakfast in a restaurant the kid noticed that his parents talked to each other. None of the couples in the restaurant were.


  230. SFC Ton says:

    Sexyfuntimes; in this case she is saying that’s what she wants but the bus and will not know that until after he has signed his doom…. I mean married and it also assumes that the sexyfuntimes will continue….which is not how it normally plays out.

    Older men who happen to also get a dose of the wiser part of the older and wiser have seen all this play out countless times. Mostly it doesn’t pay out in favor of the man.

    It’s a lot for a woman to overcome but better reality then happy lies

    Liked by 1 person

  231. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Sex is an issue. There was a gal that I went out with that was adamant about none till marriage. She had talked to a guy who had gone down that road and married the girl. For him, no sex after marriage. Oops.
    I hope that it was possible for him to annul.

    Liked by 1 person

  232. theasdgamer says:

    From my understanding of women: Women who are in the estrus phase of their cycle have an inherent libido. Women who aren’t in that phase (which includes post-menopausal women) have only a responsive libido. Women in the second category are turned on by alpha traits and betas don’t do anything for them.


  233. Tarnished says:

    I’ve heard/read the same, and was intrigued by this information. I tracked my cycle for 3 months…and still found I was a nympho regardless of phase. Perhaps it’s just a generality?


  234. Spawny Get says:

    Or maybe, you’re a unicorn with a male sized appetite? A healthy male at that

    I wouldn’t rule it out, just saying

    Liked by 1 person

  235. Tarnished says:

    Hey, Spawny!

    Trigger For Yoda

    Maybe. Strangely, when I put myself on an estrogen blocking/birth control pill for 3.5 months, just as an experiment to see how it’d affect me, I had none of the complaints that Liz and others have mentioned. The only difference (besides the obvious elimination of my cycle) was that my sense of smell was drastically heightened. This, in turn, caused me to go from my regular 50% up to 90% turned on whenever someone (typically men, sometimes women) were within 5 feet of me that smelled good. When it was my guy’s scent, I had to clench my fists so hard my palms lightly bleed to prevent myself from just…attacking him in a fit of lust. I began to get somewhat used to these feelings towards the end of the 3rd month, but it was a shock the first few times it happened.

    Is this how it is for men all the time? Hopefully the shock begins to dull to a steady pulse instead of an insistent, overwhelming distraction for you as well…

    Liked by 1 person

  236. Spawny Get says:

    There are certain women that you see that you’d give a nut to bonk…sometimes the larger one…

    Dunno bout bleeding palms.

    Liked by 1 person

  237. theasdgamer says:

    Sure, it’s a generality. NAWALT applies. Some women have high-T levels even post-menopause.

    Liked by 1 person

  238. theasdgamer says:

    Besides my friend, I see lots of women settling for unattractive men. The losers way outnumber the winners.


  239. Cill says:

    Tarn. “Is this how it is for men all the time?”
    “Hopefully the shock begins to dull to a steady pulse instead of an insistent, overwhelming distraction for you as well…”

    Liked by 1 person

  240. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It is kind of a shock to a boy when he hits puberty but, we do have to go out in the world. Each one of us finds his own bridle for his libido.

    Liked by 1 person

  241. Tarnished says:

    Fair, Fuzzie.
    When mine is being too distracting, I run scenes from Life of Brian or Flying Circus through my mind.

    Probably explains a lot, now that I think about it…

    Liked by 1 person

  242. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It just occurred to me how cruel Nature is in this to men. We’re all dressed up for a party that we can’t go to for several long years. Maybe it’s not Nature bur, Nature interfacing with Society.


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