The Plan


Recently BuenaVista in the comments stated,

Last night I listened (for two hours) to the tales of woe of a woman who shudders at the reality that her dream may not come true. The outline is familiar to all of us, so trite I could be accused of pandering or narrative spinning. It was pathetic and familiar; I opened a few bottles of wine to get through it.

She:

a. is a senior NGO manager, and travels to exotic locales around the world to “enhance” electoral processes. Next job: Burma.

b. is 37.

c. is never-married.

d. has a MASTERS DEGREE YAY!

e. has a big rack and wears revealing blouses.

f. doesn’t own her apartment and in fact is worried because her roommate is leaving; i.e., she lives paycheck to paycheck despite being a professional, middle-aged, and single.

g. can’t figure out why her 55 year-old boyfriend (whom I know vaguely; he’s a fit, Washington political pundit with a great home) went ghost on her after four months. All she did was say, ARE WE GOING TO GET MARRIED OR NOT!

h. can’t figure out why it was a bad idea to have drinks with me and my date (her girlfriend) for two hours and then go over to former boyfriend’s house for dinner and jacuzzi.

i. came onto me at a mixer once, while my date (her girlfriend) was in the room.

j. giggled when I invited her to spend the night with my date and me once.

k. talked about two things for two hours last night: her troubles with her ex-boyfriend, who freaked out when she put the hammer down after four months; and which expensive exotic locale she should visit with my date in July (when travel costs are at their zenith). Note: this is a woman who doesn’t own a home despite not having any dependents or college loans, after working for 15 years, and is worried about how she’ll make the rent after her roommate leaves. But, Corsica.

Okay, she doesn’t understand. She’s been doing the sex-tour thing for 15 years, her career is a phony, tax-funded moral narcissism thing, she’s got a negative net worth, she’s 37 and she’s running out of eggs, her face is a pleasant six, her body is a labored six (she’ll be huge before long), and Mr. Right Now won’t fall on his sword and marry her because she fucked him for a couple of months. (Mr. Right Now is probably saying, “I barely recovered from the last divorce, and this chick wants half of my duplex condo, because we had some laughs for a few months.”

***

My take is straightforward. Deti and Ton’s cohort of responsible men have no market for their SMP wares because the girls in that cohort believe the bullshit that the party never ends; it just restarts at the appropriate time with a guy who has a balance sheet, shoulders, infinite patience for feminine patter, and a member that causes them to say during missionary that “It feels like it’s all the way up in my throat.” Women often confuse silence with acceptance, or confusion. The silence of the deltas who are invisible to women at 29? That’s the silence of self-awareness and social sophistication.

The reality is more like the “very successful” NGO gurrrl above. She’s broke, one month from being evicted, two years from hitting her sell-buy date, unable to contemplate July without a week in a travel-hero destination. In five years her magnificent breasts will be around her waist. As I opened, a manosphere cliche. But this all happened last night. Not a single detail invented. In fact, I read to the girls a short story by James Salter, illustrative of about 25 red pill truths, and if I gave you their response to that, this post would make your brain explode. (Salter, America’s finest stylist of the past 50 years, combat fighter pilot, screenwriter for Downhill Racer (which made Redford) and my literary hero and former neighbor, died last week.)

***

Oh. And incidentally, I asked her, after she stopped crying at one point, if she ever considered going out with guys who didn’t write for magazines or work for the government or prosecute social justice or all the rest of it. Both she and my date (not exaggerating) were stunned. What the fuck did I mean?

“You know, what about a guy who owns five health clubs and has a house on the Outer Banks. What about a guy who has five crews framing houses and likes to fish on his old Bertram. Those kind of guys.”

“Oh, I don’t have anything in common with them.”

“But you might have desire for them.”

“I can’t imagine.”

“Wouldn’t you rather be married to someone you desire sexually?”

“I’m so over that.”

So we have a desperate woman who hit the wall three years ago in a state of panic who can’t properly fund her own old age who just wants to be a SAHM mom, not that that means she’s going to do housework mind you that’s so patriarchal, and the idea of being with a man who doesn’t get invited to the White House Correspondents Dinner is beyond the pale.

If I sent her a text now saying, “I just want to get married to an innocent girl with smarts like you and I think we have a lot in common” I would be doing the hurly-burly on her no-doubt crappy sofa in 25 minutes. Young men being ignored by such women have the right idea.

Later, he elaborated further,

There’s no evidence she understands why she is 0 for 238 with men, and incredulity met my suggestion she change her approach. Women in this group believe Sheryl Sandberg, not their own eyes, or their own diaries. They are wedded to their own sense of entitlement to be honored and cherished for the things they honor and cherish in themselves, including their delusions.

One way to look at what is going on here is through the perspective of Alpha Fux / Beta (But Hopefully Alpha) Bux; now being brought out into the open by Sheryl Sandberg

When looking for a life partner, my advice to women is date all of them: the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands.  When it comes time to settle down, find someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious.

Apparently Ms. Sandberg is expressing the game plan for a large swath of women, BuenaVista’s acquaintance included.  It would seem that women believe that this plan is viable, otherwise they would not be executing it.  But how viable is it?  What combination of conditions must be in place for it to work (the Bux part)?  Here are some attributes to select from.  How much of each would conceivably make it happen for her?

1.  Hotness

2.  Age

3.  Pleasantness

4.  Education level

5.  Prestige of current job

6.  Current wealth

7. Good sex for him

8. Connections

9. Prestige of University

10. Fun factor

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Posted in FarmBoy, Feminism, Hypergamy, Marriage
149 comments on “The Plan
  1. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I hope that NGO gurrrl doesn’t have any luck.l She sounds like a disaster in the making.
    “Wouldn’t you rather be married to somone you desired sexually?”
    “IO’m so over that.”
    This.
    Women who feel this and still look for husbands are causing the world a lot of grief, especially ther husbands.

    Liked by 6 people

  2. Tarnished says:

    Why is she so destitute? Even if every single one of her trips is 100% funded by her job, that’s still usually a trait reserved for wealthy companies. You know…the ones who pay their employees a decent (if not more than decent) amount of money.

    There’s no good reason for her to be living paycheck to paycheck. If I were her boyfriend, this utter lack of frugality PLUS her desire for marriage after only 4 months would be a gigantic neon sign saying:

    Liked by 5 people

  3. Gosh I don’t know what to say. She’s so unaware, and clearly not open to advice from a man who knows and was trying to tell her. I don’t see her “getting it.”

    I laughed out loud at the image of Bv asking himself how many bottles of wine it would take to sit through that! Egads…better open another!

    Liked by 3 people

  4. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Sex is the defining characteristic of marriage. Rhere are too meany of these women who want to be married and aren’t interested in sex. They’re also pretty good at masking it.
    A point like this could kill marriage as an institution.

    Liked by 2 people

  5. Yoda says:

    Which factors she supposes important they are?
    Which factors he considers important they are?
    Projection there might be?

    Liked by 1 person

  6. Yoda says:

    What type of man land realistically she could?

    Like

  7. Yoda says:

    Women who feel this and still look for husbands are causing the world a lot of grief, especially their husbands.

    Bad for their children also it is.

    Liked by 2 people

  8. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    If we’re applying this to NGO gurrrl as a model. Her partner would be looking for a girl that he could share a life with. She would be looking for security, primarily financial.
    Our theoretical girl is not going to be too happy with her prospective husband. She will have dated and dumped more exciting men previously. If she accepts, she’ll blieve that she is ‘settling” and it will be a source of resentment.

    Better for a man to reamin single that fall for the “beta bux” trap.

    About Sheyl Sandberg and her eposing the AFBB tactic, I think that a tactic that depends on deception is un workable once it’s out in the open. I have run into the counter that modern feminists don’t care and think that men will continue to fall for it.
    We’ll see.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Yoda,
    Bad for the adults but devastating for the kids. They are looking to themselves to have prevented something they had no control over.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. Sad thing is, she probably considers her career and education and worldly ways as pluses! But like Yoda says, it’s projection. That’s what SHE finds attractive in a man. I remember being shocked when reading a post on rules revisited blog that said just that. Women are told in dating advice books this is what men want, but the blog author there said no, men want women who are pretty, and feminine, and young! Women sit there on dates bragging about their education and career when they should be talking up their cooking skills and such!

    Liked by 5 people

  11. Tarnished says:

    What they don’t seem to realize is that the majority of relationships are at least somewhat complementary. If one partner does outdoor chores, the other needs to tend to the indoor ones. If one partner wants to be a stay-at-home with the kids, the other needs to have a career to support such a decision. If one embodies masculine traits, the other needs to have feminine ones. It’s really that simple.

    I mean, hello! There’s a reason INTJ + ENFP = great combination so often (just to throw out an example we’re all familiar with). You’ve got enough with the N to be on the same page regarding a decent number of topics, and the bonus of being opposites as well! Why is this so difficult to comprehend? It doesn’t even *have* to go via stereotypical gender roles, so long as you find someone who truly complements you naturally!

    Liked by 3 people

  12. Lets look at what she considers “her assets”

    Job where she is often traveling
    Education
    Fancy overpriced apartment in a trendy area, no doubt
    Maxed out credit cards buying stuff “she deserves”
    Expensive gym membership
    Likely expensive car, if she drives
    A standard of living she will still expect on one income while she plays mommy
    Can identify problems (but unable to listen to solutions or advice)
    Healthy “self esteem”
    Doesn’t clean and brags about it “liberated!”
    Flaunts her “assets”
    Sexually experienced!!! “Empowered”

    Liked by 3 people

  13. Sumo says:

    In the short term, I have no issue with the last two items on that list.

    Liked by 2 people

  14. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    In the thread that BV commented on, I brought up the subject of Chinese “leftover” women. These are older women living in the major cities that are used to high living. Even in a male heavy demographic like mainland China, it is unlikely that they will marry. They will expect their husbands to show them the same good times that they had while single.
    Why do I have the feeling that ir’s already here but it hasn’t bubbled up to the surface for all to see?

    Liked by 1 person

  15. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Sumo,
    “In the short term, I have no problem with the last two items on that list.”
    That is it, in a nutshell. Qualities for short term do not translate to long term.

    Bloom,
    It would not surprise me if NGO gurrrl is up to her eyeballs in debt. Expensive apartment, rented, expensive car, leased. Wants a man that earns more than her.
    A lot of stuff that I must have absorbed reading profiles on OkCupid is coming back.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Sumo says:

    Barring a chance encounter with a unicorn, I have zero interest in “long term” FuzzieMan.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Sumo.
    Your position is the opposite of Toronto based blogger M3. I think that he was always looking for a girlfriend long term. He was almost talked into going to Poland and finding a girl there with family connections. We haven’t heard too much from him recently. He got lucky and found a local girl.
    Maybe I am lazy and don’t like chjasing for short term.

    Your comment did bring ho,e the point. QAualities for short term can be detriments for long term. I t does seem as if most gals are selling themselves short term in the hope of parlaying that into long term. Bad tactic.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Sumo says:

    Stop being lazy, FuzzieMan. Go forth and get some ass. You’ll feel a LOT better, trust me.

    Toronto is a festering cesspool on the face of the great nation that is Canada (shut it, Ton! :)). While I empathize with M3, I’m also of the opinion that it’s his own damn fault for staying in that craphole.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. molly says:

    I now gave up all other work. I now work full time in my own business which I built myself. I don’t agree with Sheryl Sandberg.

    I side-stepped the SMP. I didn’t tell myself “date the bad boys, the cool boys, the commitment-phobic boys, the crazy boys. But do not marry them. The things that make the bad boys sexy do not make them good husbands”. I didn’t built a high N. I didn’t built any N!

    I did not do *any* of her advice!

    I built my business first. I did NOT look for “someone who wants an equal partner. Someone who thinks women should be smart, opinionated and ambitious.”

    I know what she is meaning – look for “someone who expects a woman to have her cake and eat it. Someone who thinks women should be able to treat him like a bitch.”

    I don’t respect Sheryl Sandberg!

    Liked by 3 people

  20. molly says:

    Grrr!
    She presumes to speak for me, like she thinks I’m *that flaming dumb*, the stoopid moo!
    GRRRRR!

    Liked by 2 people

  21. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Molly,
    While your business may be so small that you are Chief Clerk and Bottlewasher, it’s yours. Sheryl Sandberg is working for Mark Zuckerberg.and someone else signs her paycheck.
    In the advice that FB cited in the original post, she is telling women to take advantage of the SMP to have fun that they will never talk to their husbands about.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Molly,
    “GRRRR!”?
    That’s for me to say.

    Sumo,
    I don’t know what is getting to me about the SMP but, I don’t want to go out. Even if I go out and get nowhere, it’s still feeding their egos by allowing them to shut me down.

    Like

  23. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    About alpha fux/beta bux, we may be close to citical mass. If beta bux fails, a lot of girls are going to be crying in their beer.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. molly says:

    Fuzzie she is telling women “build success until you don’t need to marry, and build your N, and then marry when you find a life partner you can trash with shite and lies.” I know what she’s saying!

    Liked by 2 people

  25. molly says:

    Most women *are so dumb!* they believe Sheryl. It annoys me yet I’m not hopping mad about it. 🙂 I’ve still got all my marbles! Lol

    Liked by 1 person

  26. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Molly,
    She didn’t say that but, those are the implications. It take a while studying enough feminism to be able to see the implications.
    Could that be why they det away with so much?
    Saying you “have all your marbles” makes me want to pick you up and shake you to hear them rattle around in you. 😉

    As for implications, COTWA posted this today. It’s a little more than ominous.
    http://www.cotwa.info/2015/06/blog-post.html

    Sorry to post it a second time but, I wanted Molly to see it.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. molly says:

    I red that link Fuzzie. I’m numb to say anything. What is the time in Fuzzieland Fuzzie? 3:45 a.m. Do you need sleep? Are you an insomniac like my big cuz? 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  28. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Molly,
    I don’t know how your big Cuz does it. It’s well past my bedtime. I stayed up because talking to you is a rarity. It’s about 4:445am here. Bedtime for tis bear.
    Nite nite!

    Like

  29. molly says:

    Nighty night Fuzzie. Dream of burritos! xxoo 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  30. molly says:

    Sweet dreams Fuzzie Bear! 🙂
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Liked by 1 person

  31. Re gals focusing on the short term vs long term, yes this is another factor in the whole mess. After my divorce, when I waded back into the dating pool at 35 rather than 19, I was shocked at how things had changed. I had heard from single friends, but was not prepared for how the expectations had changed. Sex by the third (or first) date??? No way! There is a damned if you do, dammed if you don’t situation going on. I figured if I got eliminated for not moving fast enough, so be it. Rather “lose” that way than cave to something I just knew was not going to be good for me emotionally. Call me a square but casual sex is really yucky, to me. Can’t go there. May as well be a PPP. But a lot of gals seem to make the other trade off, thinking its better than sitting home? Or maybe they really are ok w it but I think few women truly are able to do casual w/o expecting it to “go somewhere.” These are the ones that four months into casual sex turned regular sex pull the “Hey, I gave sex, now where’s my commitment?” card. They have it backwards, commitment first, then sex. Or that’s how it used to work. Now if you don’t by date 3, then the reasoning goes you must be after beta bux. Next! But if you do by date 3 then, not wife material. I dunno…. I guess I can’t do “the new math!”

    Liked by 4 people

  32. molly says:

    Bloom you and my Mum talk the same truth. 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  33. molly says:

    Bloom are you an insomniac as well?

    Like

  34. Cill says:

    Like all creatures, at some point of time we need to rest.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. Tarnished says:

    4:45 at that timestamp? Fuzzie, are you on EST like me? I thought you were further out west! 😀

    Now if you don’t by date 3, then the reasoning goes you must be after beta bux. Next! But if you do by date 3 then, not wife material.
    This is a major part of what’s keeping me from obtaining other partners. It seems the new male “shit test” is when one’s date will put out. If she does on the first date, she’s a slut…next her! If she wants to wait past the 3rd date, she’s a tease…next her! Gods forbid she isn’t comfortable with casual (vaginal) sex at all and wants to wait for a few months to go by…holy crap, RUN! Even if she’s willing to do other fun sexytime things like oral or erotic massage to build up to “real” sex…NOPE, NOT GOOD ENOUGH!

    Women like the PPPs and Tinder-mongers have ruined it for those who can’t/won’t rush into something as primal and intimate as sex within 24 hours of meeting a guy. Heck, the guys who cater to this type of woman have ruined it for their fellow men as well. Now if an “old-fashioned” guy like Fuzzie wants to wait a while to know the gal first…it’ll be taken as disinterest or sexual rejection, and she’ll move on to someone who “appreciates” her.

    It’s a disturbing place out there in the dating world. 😨

    Liked by 2 people

  36. Yoda says:

    What percentage of women running the plan pull it off they can?

    Like

  37. missattempts says:

    Yesterday as I entered a supermarket (To get my daily dose of “comfort food.”)
    I glimpsed a remarkable woman. The only way to describe her was “Rubenest.”
    She was roundish, curvy, but not grossly obese. She had large breasts but was
    bra less. It was just another tormenting summer sight.
    Why? Why is there so much anguish for me?
    As she strutted around the store, I couldn’t help thinking: “Who has the distinguished
    pleasure of embrasing that delecious body? Who gets to cup those fabulous breasts?”
    Who gets in engage in the only humanizing act that 99% of the population lives for?
    An act that (at least) 75% of the population would SUICIDE themselves if they truly
    believed they would never engage in again?
    Is this man (Or woman) more worthy then me? Does he/she DESERVE the
    exctisey, that is unattainable to me? Did they work some magical spell to have access to
    her body?
    I filled my basket up with sweet tasting junk as a daily compensation for a half life.
    I knew TOMORROW was the day I’d begin my diet. It’s not that I can’t go on a diet.
    I have MANY times WITH results. But what for? It makes no difference.
    And if I kick my junk habit, I’ll deprive myself of my sole source of enjoyment.
    I stood at the checkout counter and made small talk with the cashier.
    There was a “10” in back of me dressed in her summer clothes. Her legs were
    perfect. “You know, I said to the checkout girl. Happiness insn’t dependant on
    what you have, happiness comes from inside.” The 10 was listening to me.
    Plenty of people get what they THINK they want but it only makes them happy
    for a day or so.” She agreed. “On second thought, I said as I departed with my
    groceries, I retract everything I said in my speech. I’m going to kill myself today.”

    [SG – my ‘like’ was from sympathy and understanding, no more than that. Tarn’s advice is good]

    Liked by 1 person

  38. Pull it off as in get married? Or pull if off as in stay married? Even though this gal is a mess, I bet she could get married (poor guy!) I have less faith that she could stay married. Even less happily so. So is “the plan” working? Even for her?

    Liked by 1 person

  39. Tarnished says:

    Missattempts, please don’t do anything rash. You’re suffering from lack of touch…it causes intense depression in adults, and death in animals/children.

    I want you to promise me you’ll book a massage or a shampoo + hair cut today.

    Not tomorrow.
    Not next week.
    TODAY.
    If they have no available slots for today, book it for the next immediate time.

    I’m serious, Missattempts. Everyone needs physical contact to survive. You are no exception, and you owe it to yourself to be as healthy as possible.

    Liked by 3 people

  40. Tarnished says:

    Bloom,

    The “plan” isn’t a plan at all. It’s a script that a few women (maybe 5%?) can happily follow, but has been sold over the decades as a must for every woman. It doesn’t work…Men can’t have it all, women can’t have it all. There’s always *something* that gets sacrificed in exchange for a different goal.

    What modern feminists don’t understand is that by having it “all”, you end up with nothing.

    Liked by 2 people

  41. theasdgamer says:

    But if you do by date 3 then, not wife material. I dunno

    I question this. High N-count is not wife material. Next prospects before date 3 if marriage is out with the man. Maybe eschew dating and use a marriage broker?

    …. I guess I can’t do “the new math!”

    Darlin, Unca Ton will tutor you happily.

    Like

  42. Yoda says:

    The “plan” isn’t a plan at all.

    To the heart of the matter this does drive.
    A plan that probably cannot work,
    would it a plan still be?

    Like

  43. Yoda says:

    If 18 year old woman read this she did,
    understand she would?

    Like

  44. Tarnished says:

    Depends on whether she was raised to think for herself or not.

    Like

  45. Cill says:

    Why “18 year old”? Why not 17 or 19?

    Like

  46. Yoda says:

    the girls in that cohort believe the bullshit that the party never ends; it just restarts at the appropriate time with a guy who has a balance sheet, shoulders, infinite patience for feminine patter

    Very telling this is.
    “Expectations gone wild” it would be

    Liked by 1 person

  47. I hope so Yoda! I don’t even know what “the plan” will have morphed into by the time my girls are 18. But their mom has a plan – to make sure they know “the plan” is no plan at all!

    Liked by 2 people

  48. @ cill I agree if a gal doesn’t understand this well before 18, it’s likely too late by then. She needs to understand this by 14/15.

    Liked by 2 people

  49. theasdgamer says:

    Bloom, do you know any couples where both the partners are happy (financially and sexually) and are in their 2nd marriages?

    We see it here in Spawny Space in 1st marriages sometimes, but I’m not sure it happens much in 2nd marriages. My marriage oscillates between top 20% and bottom 20% with more time in the top 20%. Liz seems happy all the time (maybe she’s quiet when she’s displeased with Mike, Idk). We are both in our 1st marriages. Both of our marriages contain some level of romantic happiness. (Mrs. Gamer can go from mountain peaks to ocean depths in a matter of minutes. I’m sure that it’s quite a ride for her. I try to minimize the amount of time that she spends in the depths and give her quite a bit more time on the peaks. Still, when she’s in the depths, she forgets about the peak times.)

    I’m not sure that couples in a 2nd marriage can get to 1st marriage-style romantic happiness. Maybe some result other than romantic happiness should be expected for a 2nd marriage. Maybe some other plan besides dating is needed nowadays.

    Like

  50. Yoda says:

    All the latest sexual fashion,

    http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/24/why-do-progressives-resent-reality-so-much/

    a conversation with my kid sister. Having recently entered a public high school, she has come to enjoy informing me about some of her more eccentric peers. Near the end of the school year, she told me fewer and fewer of her friends were merely normal boys who liked normal girls, or normal girls who liked normal boys. Rather, they identify as a slew of peculiarly novel “sexual orientations.”

    Liked by 1 person

  51. @ gamer I do know several 2nd marriage and very happy type couples. I think it may be different than the wide eyed innocent style of youth, but being older and wiser they often seem to be more content and to appreciate what they have more than some of those married young but not happy. Like Tarn said either earlier this thread or maybe the last, compatability seems to be big. And all these couples I am talking about, both parties were mature and healthy going in. Not a lot of drama in their relationships as a result, they didnt grow up together, they were already grown up. I should talk about the happy couples more. Some are going on 20+ years remarried! 🙂

    Like

  52. theasdgamer says:

    I wonder about the sex in 2nd marriages. Are the men content or just resigned? Remember that sex in marriage tends to decline with the age of the woman. The men’s happiness might be a façade. I suspect that it will take some digging to uncover the truth.

    Like

  53. @ gamer well I am sure in some cases that is true but of the couples I am thinking of, they are all very affectionate couples, holding hands, patting, standing closely. Not distant or cold or hostile in the least. Of course I am not in their bedrooms but the men are quite find of their wives, smiling, happy, beaming even. My guess is there is plenty of boom boom.

    Like

  54. @ gamer another thing about these couples, I can’t think of on e where I heard either party complaining about the other. They all seem to have a very “us against the world” dynamic. I will have to write about them more…without drama I suppose there seems to be little to say. But actually many of them have successfully blended kids, now have grand kids, etc

    Like

  55. Cill says:

    My guess is, in most cases the men’s happiness is a façade. Every married or LTR man I’ve spoken to says he goes short of sex. When our discussions really get down to it, even the happily married ones say this.

    Like

  56. theasdgamer says:

    Too much affection in public is try hard. Bad sign. Mrs. Gamer and I don’t sit closely in restaurants. Sometimes we’ll walk arm in arm (for Mrs. Gamer’s protection) or holding hands when we’re not going anywhere in particular.

    The woman’s body language will tell the story. If her hips face him, then she’s into him. Her upper body might not be leaning into him, depending on her focus. If she is leaning into him, then she is chasing–a good sign. If her hips face him, then sex is happening.

    If her body language isn’t focused on him, but he is leaning into her and he is holding onto her, then he is a beta orbiter. He is chasing her.

    Good material for my book!

    Liked by 2 people

  57. Cill says:

    I shouldn’t say “facade”. They appear to be happy. But in man to man discussion, they admit they go short of adequate sex. The ones who have adequate sex stand out like a dog’s balls. They are the most fortunate of married men, but from what I can see they are few and far between. Good luck to them, they are happy as Larry.

    Liked by 1 person

  58. Cill says:

    Bloom yes write about those ones more. We need the positive. Onya!

    asd at 5:42 pm
    Yeah I’ve seen that behavior many times.

    Like

  59. BuenaVista says:

    I’m in travel hell today, so I’ll be brief. I think we need an item to Farm Boy’s list of requirements (that conclude the OP), and that is “11. The right politics.” IOW, SJWs have completely internalized the early 90’s feminist idea that “the personal is political” and as a result, politics are imprinted in their social construction. (They can’t imagine a deep social involvement with people who do not confirm their political leanings.)

    Here, the guy who dumped her is a reasonably prominent conservative writer, so she wanted extra credit for dating one of the enemy. Though she did say he got tired of being teased, which I took to mean, she was a snarky bitch from time to time because he toed the wrong political line. Perhaps I’m unfair.

    Anyway:

    He: older, independent, owns home, has two socially prominent jobs. Probably even has a stock portfolio!

    She: much younger, thinks ‘monitoring’ foreign elections is the Lord’s work, wears college coed clothing to important dates, reasonably intelligent, wants to stay home and have babies at 40. Can’t support the rent, alone, on her own home. Doesn’t understand why she doesn’t receive a life commitment, after four months of dating, from an established man who’s previously been divorced.

    ***

    The girls resolved their July vacation. They’re going to Reykjavik instead of Corsica. I advised: hit duty free hard in Baltimore. Booze is expensive in Iceland, and the liquor stores are only open a couple hours per day.

    Liked by 1 person

  60. BuenaVista says:

    I’ve never met a married man (and few married women) who didn’t want me to dish on my sex life. I doubt that’s because they’re pleased with what they’ve got.

    Bloom, all the lovey-dovey PDAs that you witness are just another wife-scam. The guy is scratching her back because “happy wife happy life”.

    There’s a great line in the last Salter novel. A middle-aged woman, Enid, is a production manager in the movies. An American director, noting her vague isolation from the rambunctious crew, asks,

    “Enid, do you fuck?”

    “I would be a fool if I didn’t.”

    Have fun with this one. The next time you see the perfect couple, with the ‘hubby’ rubbing his wife’s arm at the checkout line in the supermarket, ask them. “Say, do you two fuck?”

    Hahahaha.

    Liked by 1 person

  61. Yoda says:

    “11. The right politics.”

    Covered in tonight’s post this is.

    Liked by 1 person

  62. Cill says:

    A man asks “Hey do you fuck?”
    The woman replies, “Not until now, you smooth talking bastard you.”

    Yeah yeah yeah, I know, you heard it already a thousand times…
    😉

    Liked by 2 people

  63. Yoda says:

    hit duty free hard in Baltimore. Booze is expensive in Iceland,

    Odd that go somewhere expensive to get drunk they would.
    Do this at home easily they could.

    Liked by 1 person

  64. theasdgamer says:

    I’m in travel hell today

    “The Plan, the Plan!” Tattoo on Fantasy Island.

    Like

  65. Cill says:

    What with the rhyming Yodish and asd’s scintillating wit, this post is getting too much. I’ll call on Padawan if you lot don’t behave 😉

    Like

  66. Liz says:

    “Here, the guy who dumped her is a reasonably prominent conservative writer, so she wanted extra credit for dating one of the enemy.”

    That fact that he was “the enemy” is probably a great part of what made him attractive to her in the first place.

    ‘Though she did say he got tired of being teased, which I took to mean, she was a snarky bitch from time to time because he toed the wrong political line.”

    Yes.

    “Perhaps I’m unfair.”

    No.

    Liked by 1 person

  67. Tarnished says:

    More sex better for nearly everyone it is. Everyday occurance it should be. Wish this very much I do…

    Also, I agree with Yoda. What the hell is it with women traveling to get drunk? Are exotic locales honestly more exciting when wasted? Sounds like they don’t know what to do so they drink instead of creating awesome memories of all the sights…

    Like

  68. theasdgamer says:

    Sign over the 2nd marriage door: “Abandon sex all ye that enter here.”

    Like

  69. theasdgamer says:

    I have to say, that only applies to the spouses, because cheating.

    Like

  70. Liz says:

    I’m assuming getting drunk in a foreign country= excuse to do shit you wouldn’t try to pull at home around people you know, and call it “fun”.

    Liked by 2 people

  71. Tarnished says:

    Oh. Sounds stupid as hell. Pass…

    Like

  72. Tarnished says:

    Unfortunately, I’m going to concur with Cill, BV, and Gamer…

    Just about every friend (not 100%) of mine who caters to his wife in such publicly lovely ways is not getting the recommended dosage of nookie at home. Sad, but true.

    Like

  73. Liz says:

    I’m sure the strong independent single career women’s “girl trip” travel plans are every bit as much of an idiotic attention-whore filled inebriation fest as the average non-single women’s “girl trip” travel plans.

    Liked by 2 people

  74. Cill says:

    Right. That’s it. I’m bringing out Padawan…
    Where the hell is the little bastard?

    Liked by 2 people

  75. Liz says:

    Padawan!
    “Speech, speech, speech, speech!”
    😛

    Liked by 2 people

  76. Tarnished says:

    I kinda imagine Padawan as a wee Scottish brownie. Except he likes applause and sugary treats rather than a bowl of milk left on the stoop…

    Liked by 1 person

  77. Liz says:

    To be honest, I don’t see married people who look very happy and “into” each other often. Almost never, really.
    But I’m also pretty sure those folks don’t have a really awesome sex life (or much if any sex life, really) at home on the sly.

    Liked by 1 person

  78. theasdgamer says:

    Liz, you express the same kind of message as Mrs. Gamer, but your speech is much more, er, “colorful”. lol

    Liked by 2 people

  79. theasdgamer says:

    Liz, be fair! They could be having awesome sex lives, just not with each other.

    Liked by 2 people

  80. Cill says:

    It amazes me that so many women don’t understand the value of sex life to a marriage or LTR. Most men will do damn near anything for a woman who really tries to keep him happy that way. When she does try, he’s happier, she’s happier, kids (if any) are happier. Why do so many women have to turn sex into an automatic hardship?

    Liked by 2 people

  81. @ cill and gamer, I guess I just don’t get it why married people wouldn’t be getting it on? In my mind, that’s the whole reason for getting married! I’m with Tarn, the more the better. I actually enjoy boom boom quite a bit, despite my aversion to casual boom boom. That’s why the beta bux strategy has never made any sense to me: why would anyone get married to someone they want to have as least sex as possible??? That’s cray cray!

    Liked by 1 person

  82. theasdgamer says:

    We’re tracking our sexual incidents on the calendar. Maybe we need to track attributes like creativity, intensity, etc. Not sure how to track a 3-some. Does it count as two sexual incidents? heh

    Like

  83. theasdgamer says:

    Men who will marry a second time are typically either unattractive or con artists. The con artists are hawt, but they bring nasty baggage. Think of Bloom’s recent experience.

    Men, to get a feel for how women in a 2nd marriage often feel towards their spouse, think of whether or not you would want to bang a whale like Red.

    Like

  84. Cill says:

    I guess with a blog that covers subjects such as red pill or mgtow, criticism of women is inevitable. Bloody hell, though, we (myself included) criticize women a lot here. But men are thick too – the way they plunge into patently disastrous relationships for reasons that are ludicrously wrong.

    However the attitude of women towards sex with their husbands is the ultimate stupidity from people who profess to love their husbands and expect a fulfilling married life. It’s dumb.Ignorant.Stoopid.

    Liked by 3 people

  85. Cill says:

    Wot? You wouldn’t bang Big Red? I’m shocked, truly shocked. (She’s a fantasy of mine you know). Can you imagine what she’d yell during coitus?

    Liked by 2 people

  86. Liz says:

    “Can you imagine what she’d yell during coitus?”

    The guys who bang her can’t answer. They’re all deaf, dumb, and blind.

    Liked by 2 people

  87. Tarnished says:

    Not sure how to track a 3-some. Does it count as two sexual incidents?

    Nah, just double points. My love is actually wanting to do one sometime this summer…Is it bad that I’m kinda looking forward to it? 😛

    Why do so many women have to turn sex into an automatic hardship?

    Probably because some crazy-ass number (I’ve read anywhere from 40-70%) of women in the US have significant orgasm and/or lubrication difficulty. If sex isn’t fun or pleasurable, I can understand not wanting to partake of it. It’d be like eating a plate of boiled asparagus instead of the bowl of ice cream with hot fudge we all experience it as. I honestly feel very bad for women who can’t enjoy sex… 😦

    Liked by 1 person

  88. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Cill,
    The reason wives will hold off with sex with their husbands is for power. That’s all it is.

    Gamer points out something else. Illict sex is a lot more popular than licit sex.

    Yoda, tha plan only worked for a few and soon, it won’t work at all.

    One point from the OP has been bothering me a lot. “I’m so over that.”, referring to sex. Why would a woman not interested in sex want a boyfriend/husband? Modern women have put all their eggs into one basket and I am smelling hydrogen sulfide.

    Bloom,
    The ‘three date rule” is there to prevent women dating endlessly with men they aren’t interested in. They like being take to dinners and movies. There should be some kind of convention that conveys interest by tha time.

    A general thought. NGOgurrrl has me steaming mad. with this “”I’m so over that””{ statement taken to mean that she has no sexual interest, what the heck is she doing playing with men’s emotions?

    Liked by 1 person

  89. Liz says:

    Cill: “I guess with a blog that covers subjects such as red pill or mgtow, criticism of women is inevitable. Bloody hell, though, we (myself included) criticize women a lot here. But men are thick too – the way they plunge into patently disastrous relationships for reasons that are ludicrously wrong.”

    I’ll share one such ‘thick’ anecdote.
    When Mike was in F16 training a long, long time ago, we had a friend (another F16 pilot) who was engaged to this tramp he met at bikini carwash (a car washer). To say she was the stupidest female I’ve ever met would be a very very low bar, but even so I think she just might be an actual contender for stupidest. I’m hard pressed to think of anyone stupider, or sluttier (I’m not being catty, this is simply objectively true). She went back home to Tampa for a little while (we were living in Phoenix then), and one day her fiance gets a call from another man. The man wanted to know if he was dating bikini carwash girl, because he’d been having sex with her and she claimed she wasn’t dating anyone but our friend’s name kept coming up around other people and they insisted she was engaged.

    Mike, who had never been coy about his opinion of her, convinced him to break up with her. So our friend breaks up with her, and Mike does a happy dance because she was such a stupid crack. Bikini carwash girl calls our friend soon after in tears begging him to take her back. Then she threatens suicide. He takes her back AND ACTUALLY MARRIES HER. He was that stupid.

    Fast forward we have another assignment together and he’s married to bikini carwash girl and every deployment she invites a team of enlisted guys over for a gang bang in married housing. His friends all say she’s a great girl…yes indeed. Great. She’s openly grabbing the packages of all his friends and I’m wondering how many of them she is screwing. A few years later they are divorced. I think he actually caught her and that was it…but really, that handwriting was on the wall before they ever tied the knot.

    Liked by 3 people

  90. Cill says:

    Liz one dumb mother fucker. How many similar examples have the rest of us seen? Heaps, for sure.

    Like

  91. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Tarn,
    I follow you on the crazy ass number of 40-70% but, I don’t think it’s medical in origin.

    Like

  92. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Liz,
    I want to say that I am shocked by bikini carwash girls antics but. stuff like that is getting to be all too common.
    Back to the cave for bicarbonate of soda.

    Like

  93. theasdgamer says:

    Tarn, women don’t have much trouble achieving the big O with hawt guys. Unattractive men just don’t turn them on, sex-wise.

    Like

  94. theasdgamer says:

    The reason wives will hold off with sex with their husbands is for power. That’s all it is.

    In Mrs. Gamer’s case, it was because I was obese and unattractive. If Mrs. Gamer feels like I have been disloyal, she may withhold sex, too. I suspect that these reasons are common even in 1st marriages like ours.

    Women in 2nd marriages and women who marry because of the Wall typically settle. Women who marry young–maybe they withhold for power sometimes.

    Like

  95. My guess is that hormonal birth control is responsible for a lot of the issues Tarn describes. Maybe they have improved it but it makes many women almost asexual.

    Fuzzie smart women would know withholding sex does nothing to increase a woman’s standing or power in her man’s eyes, but I do think you are right many withhold out of spite. They should be doing the exact opposite!

    Cill, out of curiosity is there a frequency you think these men you talk to would think is “enough?” What is the current frequency that is “not enough?” Just curious…scientific research and all.

    And @gamer, in my experience drive is increasing with age, not decreasing. If I do remarry, I hope my hubby is ready for some seriously pent up libido! Lol.

    Like

  96. @ gamer assuming that women can only O with a seriously hot guy… not so sure about that. I think it is more about feeling comfortable with her own body and also there being an intense emotional/cerebral connection. It’s a lot of head games, I will leave it at that!

    Like

  97. Tarnished says:

    I wouldn’t know…My guy calls me “Hair-trigger”, lol. But there’s a lot of studies that found casual sex/ONS aren’t satisfying for many women, partially because the guy doesn’t care and is only looking to get himself off, partially because they can’t relax into the moment. Interestingly, guys are starting to report a lack of real satisfaction regarding ONS as well.

    I blame the fact that a ONS for most women and a growing segment of men is like eating a burger from McDonald’s, whereas sex with someone who actually cares about enjoying it as much as you is like having a gourmet meal.

    Liked by 3 people

  98. Liz says:

    “In my experience drive is increasing with age, not decreasing.”

    Me too, Bloom. From what I’ve seen and heard, that’s pretty typical.
    Women and men are kind of reversed in this way (male libido very strong when they are young, female libido increases later on).
    I agree on the orgasm thing too, Bloom.
    I’d have to overshare to elaborate, so I won’t. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  99. @ Tarn it’s likely that your partner has figured out your particular switch. It differs by person. But once one finds it…or actually them…well…let’s just say things get a lot easier. Another reason why long term can be a lot better than ONS if people get into the fun of figuring these things out rather than get frustrated. It’s a journey…lol!

    Liked by 3 people

  100. theasdgamer says:

    I don’t think that ONS are all that common. PUAs aim to spin 3 or 4 plates for a while. Women get dumped when they push hard for commitment or act bitchy or cray-cray.

    Liked by 1 person

  101. Cill says:

    Bloom good question. I really don’t know. All I know is, the men say they don’t get enough. I tried to do an amateurish survey a while ago and proved myself to be woefully incompetent at the task. I ended up getting tricked (almost) into a threesome! What a laugh.

    Speaking for myself, I’d find it difficult to keep my hands off a sexy willing woman in a serious relationship with me. I’ve spoken before about my rather weird sexuality and I’d always inform a woman of this first. I am going to want a lot of sex. As for her not wanting it, I’ve not encountered this. Before going into a relationship a bloke would know whether or not a woman is sensual. Then surely there’s always a way if the bloke is accurately aware of her and has any sort of imagination or creativity… and gets his timing right?

    Liked by 1 person

  102. Indeed Cill, if both parties are willing and see it as a fun adventure, who knows what heights to which it will go? Maybe not every experiment will work, but that’s part of it too. It can be very difficult for people (lovers) to talk about sex for some reason, but the shame of that is then people are less than satisfied than they could be, or afraid to say they want to try something out of fear for how it will be received, etc. I prefer to think of it like an onion, there are many many layers and a lifetime to explore them!

    A word of warning from what I have witnessed friends go through with threesomes and open relationships and such: sometimes the fantasy of these things is far better than the reality. People think they know how they will feel or react, but the intensity of emotions and jealousy and weirdness that it can trigger hits many unexpected. I have seen two marriages crash and burn after they open that Pandora’s box. I would not know, I only play such games in my mind where it is safe and always goes just the way I want! 😉

    Liked by 4 people

  103. Tarnished says:

    Women and men are kind of reversed in this way (male libido very strong when they are young, female libido increases later on).
    I’m really hopeful that my libido is masculine then. I’ll end up in an insane asylum otherwise!

    Tarn it’s likely that your partner has figured out your particular switch.
    Another reason I’d like to eventually have more partners. I’m very curious to see what the truth of this is.

    I’ve spoken before about my rather weird sexuality and I’d always inform a woman of this first.
    Yours is very similar to mine, Cill. Do you find that without some prior “words of warning” your partners get freaked out? Is this something to actually worry about? (As in, it’s a topic one should go over with newbies).

    I follow you on the crazy ass number of 40-70% but, I don’t think it’s medical in origin.
    I don’t know, Fuzzie. It’s very strange. Some think it’s “natural” since a female orgasm technically isn’t required for procreation. Others think it’s due to hormonal BC, like Bloom mentions. Still more people think it’s because of the remnants of our Puritan views of sex as sinful or something only “bad girls” enjoy. Blurkel had a lot to say about this last part, if I recall…
    Personally, I am in agreement with Blurkel.

    Like

  104. Also as for a woman “not wanting it.” If it’s just because she’s tired or distracted (not playing power games or what not) well sometimes that is just a matter of a little seduction, once the ball is rolling she’ll often catch up. Just remember to think — it’s happy happy fun play time!!! Rather than fret or worry. And the rest will take care of itself. And as for your “problem” I forgot to keep clicking your like button, come on ladies, you too — we must desensitize Cill! Lol.

    Liked by 1 person

  105. theasdgamer says:

    Bloom, to get the lowdown on frequency of sex by age for married, partnered, and singles, check out tables 5 & 6 at http://www.kinseyinstitute.org/resources/FAQ.html

    Like

  106. theasdgamer says:

    Also as for a woman “not wanting it.” If it’s just because she’s tired or distracted (not playing power games or what not) well sometimes that is just a matter of a little seduction

    Even if she wants it, “seduction” ought always come into play. Relationships don’t change the need for people to do The Chase ™. See my post about Sexual Macrodynamics. https://theasdgamer.wordpress.com/2014/05/12/sexual-macrodynamics/

    Liked by 1 person

  107. @ Tarn you are lucky to be experiencing that in a female body then, I think for men there is a limit to how many times they can…ahem.. fire the trigger before they are out of ammo for the time being, if you know what I mean? Where for the ladies…well it can just go on and on. (A big perk of being female, lol) I would also agree with Burkel that a lot of it is women being taught they shouldn’t enjoy sex, or that makes them a slut, and other nonsense. To all that I say pffft. Also, I believe the PUAs touch on this, I can’t remember the term they use, but like letting her know “it’s ok” to not hold back or act coy or whatever, that can be most helpful. Women worry about “what he’s going to think” and this can cause all sorts of hang ups.

    Like

  108. Tarnished says:

    A word of warning from what I have witnessed friends go through with threesomes and open relationships and such: sometimes the fantasy of these things is far better than the reality.
    Heard and seen the same, Bloom. I think if one is already in a long-term expressly open relationship it’s likely easier than if one is trying it out suddenly while in an otherwise monogamous/purely committed relationship. But yeah…people should be cautious.

    Liked by 1 person

  109. Cill says:

    Re Threesomes:

    I would warn against MMF. During my teens and early 20s I went through a threesome stage. It seemed like great fun – me and these mature women – until I realized in every case one of them was being taken advantage of by the other. I sensed this equally between the husband and wife. Sometimes it outed itself as downright cruelty. It might take the form of a derisive comparison of performances, or simply by one partner being more kind hearted and accommodating than the other. The feelings of kind hearted people are very easy to exploit. I commented in detail on Tarn’s blog on this subject some time ago.

    MFF okay (just), but definitely no MMF. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think so. AND no threesome measures up to a good old-fashioned MF.

    Liked by 2 people

  110. Tarnished says:

    Tarn you are lucky to be experiencing that in a female body then, I think for men there is a limit to how many times they can…ahem.. fire the trigger before they are out of ammo for the time being, if you know what I mean?
    Eh. It actually depends on whether it is a series of smaller O’s or a large one. If it is the former, it’s possible to go for a while. If it’s the latter then…Well, then it’s like the late great Mr. Williams describes at 5:23:

    Like

  111. Liz says:

    “Bloom, to get the lowdown on frequency of sex by age for married, partnered, and singles…

    Those 18-24 year old guys must have really low libidos. They’re getting less than the thirty somethings. (spot the fallacy? It’s the same for females…what people do and what they want don’t always measure up)

    Like

  112. Liz says:

    Just to add, the above also sort of makes sense, biologically, too.

    Liked by 1 person

  113. Tarnished says:

    MFF okay (just), but definitely no MMF.

    Any particular reason? The one I’d be involved with would be a MFF, but my guy has stated he’s open to a MMF if I decide that it’s something I’d like to try. Of course, the fact he’s ever so slightly bi and very open to new experiences probably helps with that. A purely hetero man likely wouldn’t even consider it, lol.

    Like

  114. Cill says:

    “Do you find that without some prior “words of warning” your partners get freaked out?”

    No. I warn them that we will have power over each other that once started will be unstoppable. My entire body from my scalp to my toes is an erogenous zone. When a woman realizes this she gets a great sense of power, with the result that she does it damn well, which fills me with gratitude, which makes me want to give her ecstasy in return, which makes her touch even more pleasant on my skin, which I want to return… you get the drift.

    Liked by 1 person

  115. Tarnished says:

    Those 18-24 year old guys must have really low libidos. They’re getting less than the thirty somethings.

    Could this be due to the rise of MGTOW amongst younger, unmarried men?

    Like

  116. Tarnished says:

    Cill,

    Yup.
    Do you ever temporarily lose your sense of sight or smell during, too?

    Liked by 1 person

  117. Cill says:

    “…definitely no MMF. Any particular reason?”

    Tarn I’ll have a look at your blog and be back in a tick. I’m actually quite serious about this.

    Liked by 1 person

  118. Tarnished says:

    Cill.

    No problem. I think you touched on this a tad before at my place, but can’t remember where…

    Like

  119. Cill says:

    Okay. I won’t give the link unless Tarn asks me to as some of it is rather personal.

    Here’s a summary.

    I’ve blundered into MMF more times than I care to remember, and I don’t have a single positive thing to say about it.

    (BTW, “MMF” = 2 penises + 1 vagina)

    Too often I had the feeling that one of the partners had issues, or was submissive and vulnerable, or had a kind and generous nature that was being taken advantage of. Or maybe one of them was being pressured by the other. The word I’m looking for is “exploitation”. Some people get off on it.

    That’s why, before the end of chat#2, I also point out that I’m not into MMF (FWIW I also say I very much prefer SINGLE women – I hate games). This must be done with a smile and a corny line e.g. “MMF – Keep the last character and lose the first ” (pointing at myself).

    I’m not talking about pure fun, like side-show Bob and a woman in a gimp suit, or partners having their first ever MMF experience. There’s nothing wrong with that per se!

    I mean, say for example the man is the exploiter. During the course of repeated MMF, he and she have fallen into a pattern. He has won so completely, she now accepts the role of the exploited, as if that is all she is good for. And the style of their MMF sex reflects it. Her MMF orgasms (if any) are automatic and mechanical, as if against her will, and obviously NOT body and soul!

    If someone said, “hey, she enjoyed it! What’s wrong with that?”
    … I would ask “but back at the start, didn’t she deserve better? And if she deserved better then, doesn’t she deserve better now?”

    I think the role of the exploited would be an awfully easy one to slip into under the influence of slow, persistent exploitation. “The crab in the pot” comes to mind.

    The other (remote) possibility is FFM.
    FFM has been a good experience, as long as I don’t prefer one F over the other. Preference can be taken as a form of rejection. If she cares at all (most don’t) she’ll be acutely aware and highly sensitive! If this form of rejection can hurt her during a one night stand, imagine her pain if her LTR requires it of her many times!

    Liked by 2 people

  120. theasdgamer says:

    Cill, I have secret knowledge of some techniques my family discovered. We did them G-rated and they are quite pleasurable, but they can also be done X-rated….

    Liked by 2 people

  121. Liz says:

    “Could this be due to the rise of MGTOW amongst younger, unmarried men?”

    I very, very much doubt it Tarn. I doubt the figures would be much different twenty years ago than they are now.

    Liked by 1 person

  122. Liz says:

    I remember your post on Tarn’s site, Cill.
    I am in agreement that threesomes are a bad idea (IMO, for any type of scenario whether mmf or ffm).

    Liked by 2 people

  123. Tarnished says:

    Cill,

    All very good points, and one’s I’ll be sure me and mine keep in mind when doing the actual planning. There will be no exploitation or pressure of *anyone* involved. Neither he nor I would ever allow that to happen. Still, it (MFF) remains an activity he has wanted to partake of his whole life and I will admit to being very intrigued about (both MMF and MFF). It may also be helpful in getting over my hapenophobia if he’s there along with someone new…It’s what I hope, anyway.

    Enough of this topic! Poor Yoda’s eyes…lol.

    Liz,
    Yes I suppose you’re right. MGTOW hasn’t been a large enough occurance to explain those numbers yet. Hmmm.

    Liked by 1 person

  124. Cill says:

    “Do you ever temporarily lose your sense of sight or smell during, too?”
    Yes and if it’s too overwhelming I grey out for what seems like a long time but is probably only about 5 to 10 seconds at a time.

    Liked by 1 person

  125. Liz says:

    “Yes I suppose you’re right. MGTOW hasn’t been a large enough occurance to explain those numbers yet. Hmmm.”

    It makes biological sense that when a person is in the position the opposite sex is most likely to perceive them as incredibly attractive and pursue them, they wouldn’t have as much interest as when they are less attractive and have to do the real persuading themselves. Doesn’t it?

    Liked by 1 person

  126. Tarnished says:

    You’re the only other person who’s said as much, Cill. I wonder if our odd perception of the world has anything to do with it?

    Liked by 1 person

  127. Farm Boy says:

    There is a new post

    Liked by 1 person

  128. Cill says:

    Hahahaha!

    I wonder how far we should go with this Tarn?

    I actually drafted a post on the subject some time ago, but I’ve never had the gall to publish it. In defining my own case I realized it would seem real wacky to the readers. The sexuality is only one aspect of it. It goes way beyond that.

    Like

  129. That was informative! 😉

    In the case of the two couples I know who tried this, for example, in one situation it was the wife’s idea, to spice things up, and a longtime friend of hers she felt it would be “safe” with. She intended it to be that one time, which went smoothly. After that tho her hubby started to want her to pick up on girls for him every time they went out. And then he just started doing it wo her. That didnt end well.

    In the other situation it was two couples, a wife swap. For some reason they felt it was better all be in the same room. The one man was shorter and not as good looking but apparently was Mr. Enduro. The other hubby could not get the image of someone else hammering on his wife out of his head. He got erectile dysfunction but only w her. He could still get it on w the other gal, and they did. It didnt help that she was blond, 8 years you get, and super fit. His wife couldn’t deal with the new normal. They split.

    Like I said they all thought they knew they could handle it but they did not predict any of that. I am not saying maybe for some all this does not come up but it should be considered carefully.

    Liked by 1 person

  130. Tarnished says:

    Bloom,
    Yikes. Yeah,those are *not* good situations. It’s easy to see why they failed to produce the expected results.

    Liz,
    True, true.

    Cill,
    You mean the fact that the world…even inanimate parts of it…have a distinct “energy” to them, and that people have different scents (or tastefeel, as I call it) according to their mental or emotional states? Gods, I really hate how New Agey this sounds. It really isn’t! :/
    It’s probably just some form of synesthesia.

    Liked by 1 person

  131. Liz says:

    “Like I said they all thought they knew they could handle it but they did not predict any of that. I am not saying maybe for some all this does not come up but it should be considered carefully.”

    Yes, and I know many more than 2 couples who have tried this.
    It never ends well. Incredibly badly even.

    Liked by 2 people

  132. Cill says:

    I’m a lot more conservative than I was at the time I wrote the comment on Tarn’s blog. My attitude is more like Liz’s and Bloom’s now. I would not now engage in a threesome or orgy of any sort, and I’d not expect my partner to either. I wouldn’t have sex with anyone else, and I’d I expect her to be monogamous too. During most of my threesomes phase I was just a teenage kid.

    Liked by 2 people

  133. Cill says:

    Tarn yes, all of that. There are aspects that I can’t describe without going into detail, which I don’t want to do here – not because it’s perverted or sleazy (the rest of it is actually clean and wholesome and nothing to do with sex) but because it’s perhaps too way out. I could email it to you if you like.

    Like

  134. Oooh are you guys empaths? That would not surprise me…

    Liked by 1 person

  135. Cill says:

    You’re a character, Bloom 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  136. Mrs. Yoda says:

    in my experience drive is increasing with age

    For 800 years happened to me this has.
    Happy to make sammiches I am.

    Like

  137. Tarnished says:

    I could email it to you if you like.
    If you wish and have time, Cill. It would be interesting to compare our various perceptions.

    I wouldn’t have sex with anyone else, and I’d I expect her to be monogamous too.
    Of course. This is how most relationships work, especially if kids are a consideration. It’s what is best for the majority…pretty tried and true by now.

    During most of my threesomes phase I was just a teenage kid.
    At least you were able to have these experiences though, and can speak from personal experience as to what they’re like and if you enjoy them or not. This is the point I’m at currently… wanting to have more experience. Just need to get over a long hated mental barrier or two first, lol. 😛

    Liked by 1 person

  138. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    It’s not often that Mrs.Yoda posts, so I came back.
    NOt tht it is any of my business but, when they do their thing, does it involve all manner of acrobatics and do big, heavy things kind of float around?

    Liked by 1 person

  139. Liz says:

    “At least you were able to have these experiences though, and can speak from personal experience as to what they’re like and if you enjoy them or not. This is the point I’m at currently… wanting to have more experience.”

    Are there any “adult social clubs” in your area, Tarn?
    Do a Google, and go to one with your FWB. You don’t have to participate.

    Liked by 1 person

  140. Mrs. Yoda says:

    do big, heavy things kind of float around?

    Goes exactly where it should it does.

    Liked by 1 person

  141. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    I was thinking of dressers and armoires.
    Never mind.

    Liked by 1 person

  142. Tarnished says:

    Will do, Liz.
    It’s not something we’re rushing into…any research we can do together is good. 🙂

    Like

  143. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Mrs. Yoda,
    It would be nice to have a post from you.

    Like

  144. Mrs. Yoda says:

    It would be nice to have a post from you.

    What topic suggest you might?

    Like

  145. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    How about, why even after eight hundred years, it’s better to be married and living with your spouse?
    Or, tips on making sandwiches at high speed for a few hundred padawans?

    Liked by 1 person

  146. Cill says:

    Fuzzy, Mrs Y could ease some of FB’s workload – one less post he has to write. She might be female, but that’s no reason why she shouldn’t carry some of the weight.

    Like

  147. fuzziewuzziebear says:

    Cill,
    What if she submits sandwich recipes in Native Degoban? That could put him behind. If I wrote one on where to find picnic baskets, that would not help either.

    Like

  148. SFC Ton says:

    Don’t get how that mmf thing works. Hard on with a nekkid dude in the room…. not so .much

    Mff? Good start but what do you do when the two chicks tap out? Seriously. Two is a good start

    Like

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