The problem with MGTOW

The full title; ‘The problem with MGTOW…for women and society’.

I’ve linked to a few articles on The Conservative Woman in the last few days:

Commitment shy men behind fertility crisis

Women leaving having kids to the last minute inconvenienced by men failing to be on hot standby to wife her up and finance her mommy-hood dreams.  She decides to finally prioritise commitment from men and wonders why the guy she picked up previously just for tingles and fun, just isn’t that guy.  And is upset to find that she holds no trump card, that her control over reproduction is not the ace that she thought it was because some men genuinely are ambivalent (at best) about taking a two decade / rest of his life gamble on having kids.  And without kids…really does not see any value in getting married.

Basically?  She wants AF/BB* and is bitching that the world isn’t delivering on her schedule.  And actually has the fucking cheek to refer to a “whoops! pregnancy” as a benign sounding “the baby fait accompli” – damn it!  she actually sees it as her right to force fatherhood on him because he needs to grow up.  GFY.

We should ask ourselves why men won’t commit

Shit is getting serious for us women.  There are women freezing their eggs in order to stay in the game / until we decide to ‘go it alone [with the state and/or a sucker if we can trap one]’.  Finally, she asks, “Are there actual reasons behind men not committing?”.  Not that freezing eggs has any actual successful track record in finally getting ’em up the duff…but it is a security blanket during the period between her finding out that she has a problem and her finally giving up.  Frozen eggs are no panacea whatsoever, they’re a desperate last measure to keeping kicking a potentially empty can down the road for a few more years.

She’s not, please notice, saying she will do anything about any issues men have.  She’s just clutching pearls waiting for someone else to do something…that someone being, obviously, a man.  Something that she’ll feel free to bitch about publicly, even if in private she knows it’s necessary.  Sadly for her, however, no man is in a position to rewrite the legal realities of marriage, divorce and child support…and the accompanying widespread entitlement attitude in women that acts as a man-repellent.  This approach will not get her and her dread ilk anywhere.

Reader’s Comment of the Day: The risks are too high for men to commit

In response to Laura Keynes: Commitment-shy men lie behind the fertility crisis, Gold Bug wrote:

Maybe men don’t want to commit because they stand to lose so much. Maybe they don’t like being the butt of every TV ad or stupid comedian’s jokes. Maybe they don’t like being savaged by family courts. Maybe the total lack of respect or credit given when they do shoulder responsibility makes them wonder why they bother.

That’s the entire piece…she has no answer.  The lights are going out on civilisation, but all she has is…nothing.  No solution.  Baby Gap: Germany’s Birth Rate Hits Historic Low.  And no number of immigrants from the third world is going to build the society she wants.  Take a look at Sweden’s current woes to see what you get from open door immigration from the medieval era.  Or Rotherham (or many a northern city in the UK).  Immigrants used to assimilate into the culture they came for.  Not any longer do they.  Again, trad-cons are wilfully blind to the issues.  Because they don’t live in those conditions.  Their wages aren’t suppressed by immigrants.  In fact they like cheap nannies for their kids.  Cheap workers in their software houses.  For them multi-culti means foreign cuisine, cheap workers and little else.

But that isn’t even the worst of the news for these ‘Conservative Women’.  For Conservative Woman read Pearl clutching, point at the problem and let the men take all the shit in trying to solve it while tsk-tsking at any part of the solution that fails to serve the Feminine Imperative.  Men need to just start marrying again without any repeal of misandric laws, no return of any status.  Having said that about the women, Conservative men are even worse, IMHO.  They are constitutionally incapable of recognising any fault whatsoever in women.  They are, therefore, completely helpless when it comes to sorting the problem.  Beyond standing on a soap-box shouting at men to man up.  Or, maybe add even more misandric laws that cause even more men to walk away.  For such men, the manly virtues of recognising reality and even moreso dealing with it are completely beyond them.  Internet Alphas…pathetic.  Relics of the past, but oblivious to that fact.  About as much use as, and about as effective as…

Back to ‘But that isn’t even the worst of the news for these Conservative Women’.  I’ve linked to this guy’s videos before.  He’s the closest I have seen for a long time to my own views.  I know others of you have other views and other solutions, but for me?  he’s on the money.

And that’s why women in general have a huge problem.

Since time began women have made their living by providing sex and reproduction to men, at the cost to men of time, blood, resources, patience…and sacrificing for women in general.  But over the last few decades feminists have made women less pleasant to be around (by unleashing their true nature of entitlement), more dangerous to be around (yes means yes.  VAWA.  Title IX), more expensive to be around (divorce rape.  cohabitation as marriage for divorce purposes), the enemies of men (quotas, ‘positive’ discrimination.  women as a minority?  WTF?), and frustrating to be around (endless meetings, consensus seeking when most can already see the best path forward / no longer care what is decided, just that a decision be made.  Consensus is not always the best way to manage).

Women have devalued themselves as partners for men.  (please watch the video above, pretty please)

Political correctness means men have not spoken up. but that has not meant that they haven’t noticed a problem.  But it’s a problem too expensive to face directly.  Fighting it directly is signing up to throw yourself under the bus in the vain hope that if enough men do it the bus will stall out.  Society will start caring about men.  Will not happen.  This is the MRA approach.

So what has been happening?  Men have just been quietly sidling toward the exit.  Or, (PUA) focused purely on what they want from women.

I wish MRAs well, but I think they’re on a hiding to nothing.  Until it all comes down women are willfully blind to any issues that involve sacrifice by themselves.  They do not care about men.  You cannot make them care about men.

To end on a happier note (for MGTOW)…voila  (Shows the explosion of interest in the term MGTOW)

(* AF/BB – Alpha Fucks / Beta Bucks)

Posted in Feminism, Marriage, MGTOW
57 comments on “The problem with MGTOW
  1. Spawny Get says:

    For info on ‘Brazilian Fart Porn’ you need to watch the video


  2. Cill says:

    “It’s not as entertaining as it used to be.”
    That man is amusing. At 11:48 I found myself waiting in anticipation. I few seconds later I started laughing uncontrollably. Man he’s funny.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. missattempts says:

    Where is love in all of this? Is love passe?
    Can you honestly tell me that if you were a much younger man and you made the
    accquaintence of Tarnished, that you wouldn’t want to marry her up in an instance?
    Our Tarnished is one in a million! You could reject THAT?


  4. Spawny Get says:

    Miss, I know this is going to sound odd, but I don’t have any kind of image of what Tarn looks like, or sounds like. I know our attitudes are highly compatible, but I’m not at all sure that isn’t the entire extent to which we’d get on. In some ways I’m her physical type, but in others not.

    As much as a house party where we all meet might be intriguing…I don’t expect expect to meet anyone from this blog IRL. I’m not sure that my IRL friends comprehend how well and deep online friendships can be. I’m not sure that transferring them to real life works…idunno, but I don’t think I’ll be finding out. I’ve audio-chatted with a couple of people without my pre-existing opinions being shattered (in fact they were confirmed). Not sure that my reality matches the Spawny-internet-legend-Get awesome-fest-reputation. Best to not find out, I reckon. Isn’t it better to leave some friendships, virtual?

    Liked by 2 people

  5. Spawny Get says:

    “Our Tarnished is one in a million!”

    I reckon, sadly, that she’s rarer than that.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. Yoda says:

    The lights are going out on civilisation, but all she has is…nothing. No solution.

    Comparable this might be?

    “The lamps are going out all over Europe, we shall not see them lit again in our life-time”, British Foreign Secretary Sir Edward Grey may have remarked to a friend on the eve of Britain’s entry into the First World War. First published in Grey’s memoirs in 1925, the statement earned wide attention as a correct perception of the First World War and its geopolitical and cultural consequences.

    Liked by 3 people

  7. Spawny Get says:

    From a link on the old thread…

    My father once told me. “Son, all women are crazy. Your job is to find one who’s less crazy, marry her, and plant a smile on your face while you wait for the sweet embrace of death.”


  8. Spawny Get says:

    The best bit being, of course, “the sweet embrace of death.”

    Liked by 2 people

  9. Yoda says:

    Pandemonium here we have not.


  10. Tarnished says:

    Can you honestly tell me that if you were a much younger man and you made the
    accquaintence of Tarnished, that you wouldn’t want to marry her up in an instance?

    Probably not. Spawny has said before he enjoys the company of those with far more feminine traits than I. We’d be great friends and mates…married? Not so much.

    Don’t worry, Spawny. I’ll never try to husband you up… 😉

    Regarding those quoted words o’ wisdom:

    Liked by 2 people

  11. Spawny Get says:

    “Pandemonium here we have not.”

    Haven’t listened to the video in the post, have you?


  12. Spawny Get says:

    “more feminine traits”

    a curse, definitely a curse. My weakness for gurly gurls.

    Liked by 2 people

  13. Tarnished says:

    Gurly girls or curly girls?

    Liked by 3 people

  14. Spawny Get says:

    When I say I prefer long curly hair…that’s not what I mean FTR

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Yoda says:

    Looks like a new gravitar for Liz it does

    Liked by 4 people

  16. Spawny Get says:

    Yoda, indeed it does.


  17. Spawny Get says:

    I’d hate to see the size of the cat that sicked up that fur-ball…


  18. thedeti says:

    Ha. And here I was going to get all serious with a long comment. Can’t now, not with the tenor of the comments. Haha. Happy Thor’s Day to one and all.

    Liked by 3 people

  19. Spawny Get says:

    Serious comments would be welcome. I thought it was a good post. It seems that the reception is often in inverse proportion to the effort made. Same with alleged humour. Most laughs I got recently were from a throwaway about Liz’ avatar looking like an attempt to kermit moggicide.


    Liked by 2 people

  20. Is this THE NEW POST I keep hearing about? 😀 I like it! I have not yet watched the video…

    Liked by 2 people

  21. Yoda says:

    Political correctness means men have not spoken up. but that has not meant that they haven’t noticed a problem.

    Political correctness strong it is.
    The secret to strongness what would it be?


  22. Yoda says:

    A serious comment good it would be.
    Because Yoda serious he is.
    Except when he is not.

    Liked by 1 person

  23. Spawny Get says:

    Yoda takes the same view on wisdom, does he not?

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Tarnished says:

    Serious question is serious:

    Do MGTOW want females to be supportive of them?

    Not asking if they care, or if it matters, or if it would make them reconsider being MGTOW. Just do they want women to support them or do they dislike this idea? Wish I’d put that on my survey…

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Yoda says:

    Yoda takes the same view on wisdom, does he not?

    Depends on if wisdom comes from SJW it does.


  26. Spawny Get says:

    Serious answer, might be serious.

    It depends if:
    1) they are past the very common anger stage. wouldn’t deny them that.
    2) some men are just burned. they never want to interact with women again. wouldn’t deny them that.

    Nothing will change until women want it…en masse. I’m not optimistic. I think that women en masse are incapable of recognising men’s rights and unwilling to sacrifice anything to address the issues.

    personally, I appreciate your voice and actions. Keep doing what you want to do, but don’t give more than you can afford to give. Gratitude on more than a one-one basis is unlikely. You’re a friendly face armed with much information that might set a guy on a healthier path. That’s a cool thing.

    Liked by 3 people

  27. Spawny Get says:

    Copy Dunt asks what’s wrong with political correctness?

    How can you get through to someone with this view of ‘reality’?

    The term is now employed to write off any speech that is uncomfortably socially conscious, culturally sensitive or just plain left-wing. The term is employed, too often, to shut down free speech in the name of protecting speech.

    Under what coloured skies do people use PC to shutdown hatespeech from leftoids?

    In my experience PC is used to block any addressing of the lies spouted by the reality-blind, lie with abandon, delusional freaks of the left.

    Liked by 2 people

  28. Tarnished says:

    Wouldn’t deny them that either, it’s all a bigger part of a healing process and potential protection against new threats.

    Wasn’t really asking about me, or any female in particular…Just wondering if the majority of MGTOW are offended by it or not.

    Liked by 1 person

  29. SFC Ton says:

    Can we know anything about the majority of MGTOW? I’m thinking out side those openly advocating for it, it’s probably to broad spectrum to define well.

    I don’t know any mgtow in the real world who even know of the term.

    Liked by 2 people

  30. Spawny Get says:

    Did you see the graph in the final link in the post? The explosion in the popularity of the term MGTOW. No wonder everyone wants to hijack the term. They all see an army ripe for plucking. Some of them really should know better.

    Roosh’s swerve to Neo-masculinity is pretty weird. Looking forward to seeing how that pans out. His video where he claims to be the daddy of the manosphere is pretty strange. Saying he’s the origin of Roosh and Rollo as if it means he deserves loyalty from all of us. Not going to happen. Happy to listen to what he comes up with on its merits, but that’s all.


  31. Spawny Get says:

    I think that the overall bunch linked to MGTOW in any way, might be seen as ‘the awkward squad’. Not buying the party line on much at all. About the only thing that we all agree on.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. Tarnished says:

    Sad thing is, that link directly above is not surprising at all.

    Liked by 1 person

  33. SFC Ton says:

    Regarding the professors being scart, reaping and sowing so I think it’s funny as hell.

    Liked by 3 people

  34. Farm Boy says:

    There is a new post

    Liked by 1 person

  35. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Did Yoda say”pandamonium”?

    Liked by 1 person

  36. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    If there is a problem with MGTOW, it’s that men are putting their priorities first and not those of the Feminine Imperative. This is starting to cut into the carousel riders’ AFBB game plan because they only have a small window to snag a man for a father.
    Give it another year for panic to set in.

    Nobody has said it, so I will. HHKCalgary’s point about potato salad on target. Women have simplified their allure to one thing. One of the things that I learned in high school biology, the simpler the ecosystem, the more likely it is to break down. The more complex, the more surviveable.

    Liked by 4 people

  37. Spawny Get says:

    Fuzzie, I said pandemonium in the elephant enclosure, on the old thread. Sounds of that in the hhk video…you know the bit. 😉


  38. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    That part of the video was so funny that I had to stop it and leave the room. I was laughing to the point of crying. I haven’t seen anything so funny since Judgybitch took down Lindy West in a post over a similar matter.
    Could I have a schoolboy sense of humor?

    PS Bloom, you can watch it.

    Something like this?

    Liked by 1 person

  39. Spawny Get says:

    “That part of the video [the video below] was so funny that I had to stop it and leave the room. I was laughing to the point of crying.”

    You see? YOU SEE? I try and serve the readers by pointing them toward top quality content…so few accompany me on the Journey to Mirthville. It’s a damn shame

    “Could I have a schoolboy sense of humor?”

    Knuckle bump, Bro!

    [Trumpeting video] Very cool video find. Totally apt.

    It’s just before the eleven minute mark that that section starts. You need to watch his reactions as well as listen. It’s a laugh riot.

    Liked by 2 people

  40. Spawny Get says:

    Hey Cill,
    have you seen this one?

    “Follow the lives of Viago (Taika Waititi), Deacon (Jonathan Brugh), and Vladislav (Jemaine Clement) – three flatmates who are just trying to get by and overcome life’s obstacles-like being immortal vampires who must feast on human blood. Hundreds of years old, the vampires are finding that beyond sunlight catastrophes, hitting the main artery, and not being able to get a sense of their wardrobe without a reflection-modern society has them struggling with the mundane like paying rent, keeping up with the chore wheel, trying to get into nightclubs, and overcoming flatmate conflicts.”

    Sounds promising. I’ll be watching out for it on Netflix etc.


  41. Alana says:

    Lol Spawny, I could’ve lived my life happily without ever hearing about ‘brazilian fart porn’…I think.

    Thanks for the video, though. XD It’s funny and makes sense at the same time.

    Liked by 2 people

  42. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    “They’re on a hiding to nothing”

    From context, I get that this means they’re wasting their time, but I don’t understand why that phrase means that. Is that hiding as in hidden, or hiding as in beating the crap out of? Am I right in what it means? If so, why does it mean that? Speak proper ‘murcin! 😜

    Liked by 2 people

  43. Spawny Get says:

    “hiding to nothing”

    Spawny loves to educate! Sometimes he does it without realising. So, not a Murikan phrase as well? Interesting.

    From horse racing, hiding (“beating”); to (“as used to express gambling odds”), e.g., 6 to 1. Literally, the phrase can be described as to bet on a contest whose outcome is at worst a beating, or at best nothing. A heavily favored team in a sporting contest earns no credit for victory, but is shamed by defeat; this team is said to be on a hiding to nothing.

    hiding to nothing (uncountable)

    (idiomatic, UK, informal) A situation in which victory has little or no value, but defeat has a huge cost.  [quotations ▼]

    I’d say that my meaning is in there somewhere. Basically that they’re in for a hard struggle with no chance of a payoff worthy of the struggle.

    A good hiding is a good spanking.

    So they’re going to take a beating in the process of winning nothing.

    Liked by 2 people

  44. SFC Ton says:

    In the South a hidding getting your back porch painted red


  45. Spawny Get says:

    Ton delivers payback in the education stakes.

    “getting your back porch painted red”

    yep (I’m pretty sure)


  46. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    Ah. Thanks, Spawny. I guess the equivalent in these parts might be throwing good money after bad.


  47. SFC Ton says:

    LOL watch the Andy Griffin show a few times and y’all will be up to speed on Ton speak

    Liked by 1 person

  48. Spawny Get says:

    “throwing good money after bad”

    We do that too, the EU being the finest example that leaps to mind.


  49. Lon Spector says:

    One thing I’ve noticed about about the Manosphere is it’s all about ME! ME! ME!
    The Bible says: “Hatred stirrth up strifes, but love covers ALL sins.”
    When we point fingers at others, remember three are pointing back at us.

    Liked by 1 person

  50. Spawny Get says:

    To be fair, Lon, there’s some truth in what you say. A lot of the manosphere is about men relating their experiences. And then you have those taking a stab at analysing the pattern of shared experiences – this is where we get the ‘feminine imperative’, ‘AF/BB’, etc from.

    The feminists are always extremely keen to express their narratives and claim that objective truth is impossible, so their ‘truth’ can be treated as true as it gets. They don’t much like hearing from da menz though, do they?

    I don’t mind some criticism of men’s nature. It just seems to me that feminism and the mainstream media has it covered. Turn on your TV. Open a newspaper.


  51. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    Also, to continue the fairness, where the hell else are men supposed to focus on themselves? Is there some barbershop or cigar shop that hasn’t been adulterated?

    Liked by 1 person

  52. SFC Ton says:

    That’s why I point with the knife hand. Plus its a more forceful gesture


  53. SFC Ton says:

    Ps I was shaking my head in disgust while responding to that bit of blue pill foolishness


  54. Spawny Get says:

    Lon is MissAttempts

    That isn’t a secret as far as I’m aware. I think this was just a forgot to change login (been there, done that)


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