Red Pill Classroom — The Patriarchy


Wikipedia defines Patriarchy,

Patriarchy is a social system in which males hold primary power, predominate in roles of political leadership, moral authority, social privilege and control of property; in the domain of the family, fathers or father-figures hold authority over women and children.

The above definition is a bit stark (the reality was a bit different). But the Feminists take it even further, defining it as men’s oppression of women.

In reality it was a set of rules arrived at through compromise and trial and error though the course of time.  Many tradeoffs were required to form a system that was both fair and stable.  This resulted in a healthy society; and perhaps more importantly, healthy environments to raise children.

But what exactly was the classical Patriarchy?  Your task is to list the benefits and privileges of classical Patriarchy for both genders.  And also discuss the tradeoffs required to get there.  Bringing many perspectives together would be useful in trying to define such a complex system.

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Posted in FarmBoy, RedPillClassroom
158 comments on “Red Pill Classroom — The Patriarchy
  1. Farm Boy says:

    Taylor Swift is fighting the Patriarchy,

    http://thefederalist.com/2015/06/01/taylor-swift-flirts-with-the-feminist-dark-side/

    “Misogyny is ingrained in people from the time they are born.” Wait. What? Then there’s this, from one of the most successful individuals in music today: “I didn’t see myself being held back until I was a woman.” Sheesh, Taylor. Held back from what? Holding a concert on the moon? Levitating the Bellagio Las Vegas with your bare hands? Not getting a slot in those GOP presidential debates? (Note: There’s still time!)

    Like

  2. Farm Boy says:

    Later on,

    This, alas, is modern feminism, an odd mish-mash of out-of-touch victimhood, “empowered” whining, and occasional doses of off-the-reservation crazy. It’s a brand of feminism that tends to ignore the real instances of oppression around the world. It’s a brand of feminism widely embraced by the news media, thong-clad pop stars like Beyonce, and—surprise, surprise—Swift’s good friend, Lena Dunham, a young HBO star/high-profile pretend victim/painful memoir writer/abortion fanatic/half-baked leftist/Oberlin caricature. Dunham, in short, is like a big, flimsy cardboard box full of squeaky bad ideas, each repeatedly scrambling, with tiny T-Rex arms, to be the first to make it out of her mouth.

    Everyone should care, because a) Swift is a huge role model and b) modern feminism is one of the most destructive, pervasive cultural trends.
    Tellingly, and perhaps appropriately, Dunham is also widely considered to be a modern feminist icon. “Becoming friends with Lena – without her preaching to me, but just seeing why she believes what she believes, why she says what she says, why she stands for what she stands for – has made me realize that I’ve been taking a feminist stance without actually saying so,” Swift told The Guardian in August. Dunham even makes a guest appearance in Swift’s latest video, “Bad Blood,” which features an impressive cadre of highly-paid singers, actresses, and supermodels gleefully tromping around in tall boots, whipping around nunchuks, and generally ruling the world. All, quite obviously, are terribly oppressed by western society.

    Liked by 4 people

  3. Spawny Get says:

    They say that you can’t fit two tons of shit in a one pound bag…but feminists prove ’em wrong every time they open their stupid gobs.

    Liked by 3 people

  4. Spawny Get says:

    Happy to say I’ve not heard any of Swift’s material, nor Dunham (beyond the excruciatingly poor SNL skit)

    Like

  5. Tarnished says:

    One trade off in a purely patriarchal system:

    Women are seen as more moral/ethical, but this results in men having difficulty thinking of women as sexual/carnal beings.

    Flip side of the coin is that men are considered to be baser creatures with an uncontrollable/bad sex drive and have their libidos demonized.

    Another trade off:
    Upper and middle class women were taken care of financially by their fathers, then husbands which was a relatively easy life. Coin flip = they are perpetually infantilized and denied certain decision making opportunities or are treated as incredibly weak either mentally or physically. Also, it forces men into a provider role whether they are comfortable in one or not.

    A good short story that delves into the dangers of “over care” is The Yellow Wallpaper

    Liked by 3 people

  6. Yoda says:

    Women protection of men under arms they had.

    Like

  7. Yoda says:

    Women privilege of chivalry they had.

    Like

  8. Farm Boy says:

    Men got sex if they were capable providers.

    Like

  9. SFC Ton says:

    Femisinst are normally way larger in size then a 1 pound bag

    Liked by 2 people

  10. theasdgamer says:

    One law was: A man’s home is his castle–he had the right to pass judgment of life or death within his realm. Of course, the kin of anyone killed within the walls could require weregild, which might bankrupt the family.

    Like

  11. SFC Ton says:

    Tarn I think you have that all wrong on patriarchal attitudes

    That’s the modern one you describe.

    Like

  12. Farm Boy says:

    Women got provision for the children.

    They still get that. But it is different now

    Like

  13. Farm Boy says:

    I have to agree with Ton with respect to Tarn

    Like

  14. Farm Boy says:

    Women are seen as more moral/ethical, but this results in men having difficulty thinking of women as sexual/carnal beings.

    Flip side of the coin is that men are considered to be baser creatures with an uncontrollable/bad sex drive and have their libidos demonized.

    That is today

    Like

  15. Tarnished says:

    How far back and in what country are we talking, then?

    Like

  16. Cill says:

    Tarn, re NZ:

    I’ve heard people say back in the 1950s women had no control over money and spending. However, old men and women tell me women were the biggest money spenders in NZ back then, and for all purchases except major ones they didn’t have to ask for their husbands’ permission. Women wrote most of the cheques. Although they’d discuss major purchases with their husbands, wives chose everything for the home – food, clothing, curtains, furniture, and the home itself to the tune of about 50%. Purchases for outside the home (tools for the toolshed, lawnmowers, cars, boats) were always chosen by the husbands. For the most part the wives were responsible with money, and the husbands trusted them. NZ literature of the time tends to support this.

    NZ Feminism has re-written history to suit itself. They have an elastic relationship with the truth (to paraphrase Paul McCartney).

    Liked by 3 people

  17. Tarnished says:

    Agreed, Cill. The life of a 1950s housewife was hardly that of a miserable and oppressed perpetual servant. There’s numerous women nowadays who’d probably love to exchange places, lol.

    But that’s why I was wondering what time period and country we were discussing. England during the 1800s? The US in the 1500s? Mainland Europe in the 1700s? Heck, are we talking about the Middle East or Africa or South America in all those centuries?

    Regardless, I will leave you all to this discussion for the remainder of the night. I’ve someone a bit more fun to do right now… 😉

    Ta, all.

    Liked by 2 people

  18. Cill says:

    Tarn you’ve put wicked thoughts in my head. Just for well for M that she’s overseas at the moment.

    Liked by 1 person

  19. Tarnished says:

    I aim to please, sir.

    …and I’m a very good shot.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. Yoda says:

    US in 30s, 40s and 50s good benchmark it is.

    Like

  21. Yoda says:

    Patriarchy privilege believes still exists he does,

    http://electricliterature.com/should-white-men-stop-writing-the-blunt-instrument-on-publishing-and-privilege/#.VW4H0FUt0ZI.facebook

    I am a white, male poet—a white, male poet who is aware of his privilege and sensitive to inequalities facing women, POC, and LGBTQ individuals in and out of the writing community—but despite this awareness and sensitivity, I am still white and still male. Sometimes I feel like the time to write from my experience has passed, that the need for poems from a white, male perspective just isn’t there anymore, and that the torch has passed to writers of other communities whose voices have too long been silenced or suppressed.

    Like

  22. Yoda says:

    “POC” be what it is?

    Like

  23. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Spawny Get,
    Here’s another reason for the UK to get out of the EU that may light a fire under David “Call me North Pole Penguin” Cameron’s backside.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11644660/Germany-dominance-over-as-demographic-crunch-worsens.html
    The UK can’t hold up the whole EU and Germany is the second largest exporter after China. They were number one until recently.
    H/T to Lura at The Thinking Housewife http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/2015/06/childless-germany/

    Like

  24. Cill says:

    ““POC” be what it is?”
    Pouffs, Of Course.

    Like

  25. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Tarn,
    Where ever you are, I hope that you are having fun.
    However, I can’t think of a time in history when female sexualaity has been raised to be next to Godliness and male sexuality is of Hell. What have described is not patriarchy but the modern corruption that feminism and gynocentrism has brought us to.

    Speaking of patriarchy, in Roman times, the head of household held the power of life and death. There was one Roman general who called out a junior officer for using initiative and told hin to not do it again. He did and succeeded. The gereal killed him and no one said a word. The junior officer was his son.
    Speaking of Rome
    http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/2015/06/childless-germany/

    I thought he couldn’t tell me anything I didn’t already know. I was wrong.

    Like

  26. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Here is the Taylor Swift video that Farm Boy mentioned earlier.

    Taylor Swift can’t weigh more than 110 pounds soaking wet. What the heck?!
    A Teddy Bear was harmed in the making of this video. Not a good omen.

    Like

  27. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    If you need brain bleach after that last link, may I offer

    She is blode and talented. While past her prime, she is a national treasure. The flowered headdress is a local custom.

    Like

  28. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Those wacky feminists! After reading this, I am reminded that Ruth Westheimer has good sense.
    https://mgtowrevolution.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/feminists-accuse-dr-ruth-of-promoting-rape-culture-alex-jones-infowars-theres-a-war-on-for-your-mind/

    Like

  29. Cill says:

    Campus Justice: Punished Until Proven Innocent

    What reasonable person could disagree with Megan McArdle’s article? Here’s an abridgement:

    Being charged with sexual assault is a very big deal for the accused. The process itself can become the punishment. There’s the worry of knowing that however crazy the charge sounds to you, the campus judicial process may have very different ideas.

    The accused has limited rights, the system is opaque and can expel you with a mark on your permanent transcript. The system’s defenders say it does not need the same due process standards as a legal charge would, because it can’t result in prison time. But I doubt these defenders would be so sanguine about this Kafkaesque process if it were directed at them, threatening their futures.

    Like

  30. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Cill,
    This is all happening because higher education is beholden to federal largesse. At some point, they’ll be set further back by accepting federal money than if they hadn’t With all these pending lawsuits, especially the one about mattress girl, it may come up sooner than we think.
    In the meanwhile, I just saw an ad on youtube for a 100% online university that is going after usiness from veterens. Brick and mortar is in trouble.

    Liked by 1 person

  31. Cill says:

    Fuzzy online university is a good thing. Brick and mortar university is too dangerous for men.

    Liked by 1 person

  32. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Cill,
    Even if the past lived up to what the feminists have to say about it, it was never as bad then for women as it is for men now.

    Like

  33. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Cill,
    If you’re missing M, how about video chat? I have only used google with one person betweeen the US and Canada but, it worked great.

    Back at 5:37aI meant to link this

    Sorry to take so long to catch it.

    Like

  34. Spawny Get says:

    “Femisinst are normally way larger in size then a 1 pound bag”

    Yep, fair point. And considerably less appealing.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. SFC Ton says:

    And a 1 pound bag adds some small level of value to your life. Cannot say that about feminist

    Patriarchy was dead in the West by 1930. 30’40’ & 50′ we’re very progressive times, but not progressive enough for progressives. Tarn is as progressive as progressives get and I think that is where her confusion lies.

    What useful degree can a man learn online?

    Liked by 1 person

  36. SFC Ton says:

    Well that video confirms my suspicions that I am missing nothing by turning my back on popular culture.

    Liked by 1 person

  37. Spawny Get says:

    I think you’re going to like my shiny new post
    (Sorry for queue jumping FarmBoy. Feeling the need to post is rare these days (on relevant subjects). I just went with it)

    Like

  38. Spawny Get says:

    “What useful degree can a man learn online?”

    Software. May not be high enough T for you lot, but you might make a small living nowadays.

    new post *cough*

    Liked by 2 people

  39. Cill says:

    Fuzzy, that’s an interesting video on feminism in ancient Rome. I think the biggest difference between now and then is that the State did not replace the husband and father in ancient Rome. IMO the State as the ultimate alpha, which is dependent on funding by men, is the most arrogant and insulting put down of them all.

    Like

  40. Spawny Get says:

    I think that the state is the ultimate Omega. Always sniffing around seeing how they can serve women (by stabbing men in the back)

    Liked by 1 person

  41. SFC Ton says:

    Ahhhhh I didnt know that Swpany and very useful.

    I am pro nerd, just want them to butch up some and be…. whatever the hell term we want to use. Normally I go with “complete men, deep reservoirs of strength; physical strength, mental strength, strength of purpose etc etc”

    Like

  42. SFC Ton says:

    And I favor developing the physical/ mental strength/ toughness etc 1st.

    Easier to do so when you’re still a boy

    Like

  43. Liz says:

    “But that’s why I was wondering what time period and country we were discussing. England during the 1800s? The US in the 1500s? Mainland Europe in the 1700s? Heck, are we talking about the Middle East or Africa or South America in all those centuries?”

    Women have collaborated and worked with finances with their husbands since a very long way back.

    http://i.imgur.com/t7RgUpb.jpg?1

    Liked by 1 person

  44. Liz says:

    I’m a stay at home wife/mom, pretty much like 1930s 40s, 50s style stuff at this point.
    I’ve always done our taxes and balanced the checkbook, kept the budget, invested and so forth.

    Liked by 1 person

  45. Spawny Get says:

    Ah well, Ton. You get ’em to play with man toys in their spare time…

    An example, not the only one.

    Lot of nerds in tech-diving. Where you spend more time decompressing on the way up than you do on the bottom. Not talking about 50ft PADI OW dive divers. Tech diving where fucking it up can really kill you (or worse). Wrong gas at the wrong depth? convulsions and death. I’ve lost a friend who failed to turn on one knob on his rebreather…blacked out, suffocated, dead. Dived with guys (not a buddy in that dive) that got separated and trapped in a wreck. They both ended up making it out, as it happened, they lucked out. But the guy who thought he had abandoned his mate to die…who did abandon his buddy to die…he’ll never forget that. Even though his buddy, who surfaced 20 minutes after him, forgave him for panicking (and kicking his mask off his face with a careless fin).

    Compared to an ambush with guns…small beer, I know. But there’s more masculinity out there than you come across, I reckon. Just not on your scale.

    Liked by 1 person

  46. Spawny Get says:

    Liz, that deal is acceptable to many guys. But…see new post…the guy nowadays doesn’t know that’s what he’ll get. That’s what pisses men off. Women welching on the deal and robbing them blind. New post *cough*

    Like

  47. Liz says:

    That’s true Swithy. It helps to start with nothing. I was kind of in Molly’s position with a dowry of sorts from my dad, and that became joint property. I also had worked all through highschool and the first year of college and didn’t spend, so I’d accumulated 13k in the bank. I put that into a joint checking account and Mike proceeded to plow through it in only two weeks. At the time I easily lived off of 500 dollars a MONTH, I was pretty shocked at his spending habits and not terribly pleased. It works both ways. We adjusted.

    Liked by 1 person

  48. Liz says:

    As a side note, you actually can gauge a person pretty well on finances before you commit. It was very very obvious I was going to be frugal, and it was obvious his spending was going to be a problem unless and until we could stick to a budget. And of course, he did.

    He just wasn’t raised to understand frugality. His parents are loaded and they never taught him fiscal responsibility. His sister is far far worse.

    Like

  49. Liz says:

    One more side note…he balanced me out in the other way. I was “too much” on frugality.

    Saving is good, but Spartan frugality can be too much if you have enough income coming in to fund a higher quality of life. There’s not much quality of life to never spending on things that bring you joy. I think, overall having a partner that balances you out adds to life quality…but you have to get it right or the differences can be divisive. Haven’t thought it out much but attraction is pretty key there, I’d say.

    Liked by 1 person

  50. SFC Ton says:

    The video on Rome was right interesting but to the best of my recollection he is wrong about Sparta

    Like

  51. SFC Ton says:

    Well Spawny I want to apologize for my lack of communication skillz. I have said many times very few men need to make violence a full time job but that all men should be familiar with the tools of the trade. Enough to keep their shit their shit etc. Which in the hear and now, is a relatively low bar. Leastwise in the usa with readily available point and click criminal interaction devices. Throw in a good set of basic skillz like a good jab, good right hand, a few take downs, few take down defenses etc and a man is good to hook. Maybe 4 hours a week but likely could be paired down to 2 once the skill set is there.

    Tech diving is pretty cool. No critters to hunt down there so I have never done it recreationaly. Army tought me to dive which is a whole other thing but no tech diving is not small beer. Not at all. I have offend mentioned what brass balls it takes to surf big waves and what not. Their is huge variety of options but I mostly speak to what I know.

    Like

  52. theasdgamer says:

    Even under the Patriarchy, it was acceptable (encouraged) for women to engage in business. See Proverbs 31.

    Liked by 3 people

  53. SFC Ton says:

    I always reckoned we have Patriarchy because so few women can or will live up to the Proverbs 31 standard.

    We have judges etc because so few can or will live up to any standard but that’s separate issue.

    Liked by 1 person

  54. Tarnished says:

    Women have collaborated and worked with finances with their husbands since a very long way back.

    Of course, Liz.
    To be honest, when I was writing my comment above, I was thinking of the Victorian era and the upper crust, who lived very differently than the average. I’m quite well aware that women have usually had the ability to run businesses and handle finances throughout history. 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  55. Tarnished says:

    Scfton’s comment about me being as progressive as one could ever be made me chuckle. Where I live, I’m considered moderate and have been “accused” of having conservative leanings more than once in college.

    Liked by 1 person

  56. Spawny Get says:

    “Well Spawny I want to apologize for my lack of communication skillz.”

    I hadn’t taken offense at any point. having seen your apology over communication skills, I looked back at what I wrote…and now…I need to apologise.

    I didn’t think you were slamming every guy that hasn’t killed half a dozen Helots (seeing as someone mentioned Sparta). I was just saying that what I was talking about isn’t on the scale of going into combat.

    no harm, no foul, no intention of either AFAIAC

    I guess my point is that I’m optimistic that in every boy that has been bought up in a pussifying environment (through no fault of theirs), there is a bloke who’d enjoy shooting a gun, diving, motorbikes, fishing and preparing the fish, hunting and various other hare-brained pastimes that men like.

    Software is something that you can now learn on line (though I suspect good practice requires self-discipline). It pays the bills, or can do. And then you find a way to get the blood pumping out of hours. I was trying not to start an internet alpha war because someone might mistake that statement as saying it’s equivalent to front line service. The comparison is not there. But I think you can function as a man without having balls of solid steel…

    Like

  57. Spawny Get says:

    Tarn, I think the only box in which you comfortably fit is…unicorn. Even then it’s the ‘Tarn Unicorn Box’.

    Like

  58. Spawny Get says:

    “Tech diving is pretty cool. No critters to hunt down there so I have never done it recreationaly.”

    True. I have had a few bits and pieces, but really you need to have been diving twenty years before I started to have brass ornaments like ship’s bell, ship’s compass or just portholes. They were all gone from the wrecks before I got there. Plus the wrecks from WWII were suffering pretty badly even when I got there.

    One of the most popular UK wrecks suitable for novice divers is a US Liberty Ship called The James Egan Layne. NB don’t compare 80′ dives in the Caribbean with 80′ in the English Channel. Some dives you can need a torch just to read the computer on your wrist. The vis can be that bad. OTOH your not likely to put your hand down on a stone fish that’ll kill you. Horses for courses.

    http://www.divesitedirectory.co.uk/dive_site_uk_england_southwest_wreck_james_egan_layne.html

    One of my earliest open water dives was on that ship. Later I took trrainees in on her.

    But…you could see the increasing devastation of her every year by the weather.

    Here’s the modern replacement. The Scylla.

    Divers told not to dive inside dangerous HMS Scylla

    Of course, nobody I know is stupid enough to go inside, let alone remove his reg so that the (incompetent) camera guy could take a shot of him smiling

    TOO LATE!!!

    Liked by 2 people

  59. Tarnished says:

    Perhaps, Spawny.
    My views are usually…not quite what people expect. Last month, I had a newish customer who just couldn’t comprehend how I’m both Pagan and against the legalization of marijuana in my state. They honestly thought that someone of my faith + someone from my area = someone who totally enjoys getting high every weekend. The still didn’t believe me that I’ve never even tried it, and do not plan to.

    But that’s stereotypes for ya! 😛

    Liked by 1 person

  60. Cill says:

    The Female Economy” Harvard Business Review, September 2009 edition:

    Worldwide, women spend $10 trillion more than they earn. They earn $18 trillion and spend $28 trillion. Women are responsible for 80% of all spending.

    “Women make the decision in the purchases of 94% of home furnishings…92% of vacations…91% of homes… 60% of automobiles…51% of consumer electronics”

    Liked by 1 person

  61. Cill says:

    So who makes the money and who does the spending?

    Like

  62. Yoda says:

    Where I live, I’m considered moderate

    Coastal region you do live?

    Like

  63. Tarnished says:

    I’m also very much pro-gun rights, against abortion after the middle of the 2nd trimester unless it would save the mother’s life, believe in the death penalty when warranted, against the misuse of welfare, and of course don’t believe modern feminism does anything for anyone without a victim complex. I also agree with scfton’s screed above about being strong in many ways, although I don’t think it is just for boys and men.

    Liked by 1 person

  64. Tarnished says:

    Yoda,

    Yes. Very much so.
    Btw, I’m unsure if you were serious about this question before, but POC stands for people of color.

    Like

  65. Yoda says:

    Patriarchy good deal for women it was?

    Liked by 1 person

  66. Spawny Get says:

    “Patriarchy good deal for women it was?”

    It probably was for most women, but I can’t help sympathising for the smart women in the fifties finding life claustrophobic.

    Liked by 1 person

  67. Spawny Get says:

    Are we done with the BTMSGL image? me agent says I shouldn’t be giving free stuff away.

    Liked by 1 person

  68. Tarnished says:

    Agreed, Spawny.
    It was likely good for the majority. After all, a lot of women actually rallied against female suffrage, the Pill, flapper fashions, etc. Some still do as is their right.

    But I subscribe to the same thing my lover does:
    Your right to your opinion ends at your fingertips. Just because the Thinking Housewife doesn’t want to vote (for example) doesn’t mean she can take away my ability to. Just because my father thinks I should be married and have grandkids for him doesn’t mean I’m going to.

    Liked by 1 person

  69. Yoda says:

    I can’t help sympathising for the smart women in the fifties finding life claustrophobic

    Go to college they could.
    Start a business they might.

    Like

  70. Yoda says:

    Your right to your opinion ends at your fingertips.

    What is opinion and what is opinion not?

    Ability to obtain abortion an opinion it is?

    Like

  71. SFC Ton says:

    Here is the fundamental flaw in your version of rights

    Women voting destroys nations, economies etc and limits liberty on a grand scale. So the so called rights of women cannot exit if you want to preserve the liberty at large and your nation state. That is not an opinion that is how it’s played out every time some measure of sovereignty has been extended to women.

    Liked by 1 person

  72. Tarnished says:

    Yoda,

    A great many people would likely disagree with me, but up to a certain point I think so. If someone gets pregnant when it truly isn’t desired or expected, they shouldn’t be forced to go through the numerous physical and mental changes that accompany the carrying of a fetus and infant.

    However, with things like the “morning after” pill and abortifacient massages, I honestly don’t see why these situations can’t be taken care of before week 8.

    I can honestly say that if I somehow ended up pregnant and had no way to end it, I’d kill myself. Not being dramatic or attention seeking here…just stating a fact. I would not be able to mentally handle it, and am perpetually thankful that (at least in my state) I would be able to obtain that service in a quick timeframe.

    This is a severely loaded topic though, so it’s probably better that we not let it overtake the thread. If anyone wants to personally talk about it, you all can find my email at my blog.

    Like

  73. Tarnished says:

    Scfton,

    Which is why vigorous testing and intelligence measurements should be mandatory to obtain voting rights. I also do not approve of females automatically getting the vote when our boys are required by law to sign up for the Draft in order to have the same. That is BS, completely and utterly. I signed up for it along with my male friends because that’s the equal thing to do under our current system.

    Like

  74. missattempts says:

    Either we will have what we had before, or we will have NOTHING.
    If we have a world domanated by Catilan Jenner’s and crazed Islamic cop killers,
    we will descend into savagedry. If we keep subscribing to the premise that “Up is Down,”
    North is South, and East is West, we’ll DIE.

    Like

  75. Spawny Get says:

    “A great many people would likely disagree with me, but up to a certain point I think so. If someone gets pregnant when it truly isn’t desired or expected, they shouldn’t be forced to go through the numerous physical and mental changes that accompany the carrying of a fetus and infant.

    However, with things like the “morning after” pill and abortifacient massages, I honestly don’t see why these situations can’t be taken care of before week 8. ”

    Damn. We agree again. An atheist I may be, but I don’t like abortion*. Certainly not as a lifestyle choice, there are very many better and easier options. But I wouldn’t make it illegal for the reasons that you give.

    *atheism means that I believe that the terrestrial life that you get, is all you get. Life is not meaningless without religion. Without religion, life is all there is.

    Liked by 1 person

  76. Yoda says:

    But “opinion” your abortion postition it is?
    If so, beyond fingertips it should extend?

    Like

  77. Tarnished says:

    The world will never be dominated by transgender people, Missattempts. People with GD only make up approximately 1-3% of the population.

    Crazed religious fanatics, on the other hand…

    Like

  78. Yoda says:

    So what is opinion and what is opinion not?

    Like

  79. Spawny Get says:

    “Which is why vigorous testing and intelligence measurements should be mandatory to obtain voting rights.”

    And again!?!?!

    I think that we have to restrict voting rights if we’re to survive. The kind of ways I’d do it would result in more male voters than females, but it would be about comprehension, judgement and morality. Not about Willy = vote. Vajajay = stay at home. maybe I have come across too many stupid men as well as women?

    Liked by 1 person

  80. Tarnished says:

    But “opinion” your abortion postition it is?

    Yes. For what it’s worth, my mother disagrees with me on this topic a *lot*. She often brings up the fact that she got pregnant with me at an early age and wasn’t quite ready for motherhood but didn’t abort me. To which I usually respond that if she had truly believed it would’ve made her life substantially easier/eliminated major hardships, I would not have blamed her for doing so. I am, of course, glad right *now* that she did not…but that’s only because I’m currently a living, breathing, thinking person. If she had gotten rid of “me” when I was still the size of a golf ball, I’d obviously have no opinion on the matter.

    If so, beyond fingertips it should extend?
    No, it should not.
    My personal opinion should not dictate what course of action anyone else takes. Only that the option should be available for those who need it, and they can decide to carry or not.

    Life is not meaningless without religion. Without religion, life is all there is.

    Yup. I’d give you 10,000 likes if I could, mate.

    Like

  81. Spawny Get says:

    “1-3% of the population.”

    isn’t that the entire LGBTALPHABET?

    T/G must be a lot lower than that, Shirley?

    Liked by 1 person

  82. Liz says:

    “It probably was for most women, but I can’t help sympathising for the smart women in the fifties finding life claustrophobic.”

    There were outlets for smart women. Look at Shirley Jackson (author of The Lottery, mother of four) and Ernestine Gilbreth Carey (of Cheaper by the Dozen fame, the original one…mother of TWELVE).

    Like

  83. SFC Ton says:

    You are a fool Tarn. Lot of women who would pass those tests will still be horrible voters. Like damn near every umc White women around. In fact the higher the iq the more likely someone is dumb enough to vote for…say Obama. Nice sounding words I reckon but they added up to the same me as we have now. Or worse.

    Like

  84. Tarnished says:

    I think that we have to restrict voting rights if we’re to survive. The kind of ways I’d do it would result in more male voters than females, but it would be about comprehension, judgement and morality.

    Yes, 100%, absolutely. If one fails/passes a test, it should be based on their on individual merits or limitations.

    Like

  85. Spawny Get says:

    “You are a fool Tarn.”

    Aren’t we past that?

    Liked by 1 person

  86. Spawny Get says:

    BUT I do agree that there needs to be more than raw IQ at play.

    Ton, what makes for a good officer do you reckon? I doubt raw IQ does more than help.

    Maybe I’m a little soft, but my favourite soap was ‘Tour of Duty’. In the first episode the new butter-bar gives a dangerous order. The sarge doesn’t move. When asked if he’s refusing an order, he replies (something like), “No. I’m waiting for the lootenant to give a better one”

    Liked by 2 people

  87. Spawny Get says:

    “Women outnumber [men] on university campuses in every region bar South Asia and sub-Saharan Africa. In the OECD men earn only 42 percent of degrees.”

    This pisses me off. It’s completely in line with the female tendency to worship at qualifications without checking whether they’re worth a damn.

    Got a master’s in whatever studies? good for you, next. I wouldn’t employ such people. Not only have they wasted a shed load of money on that crap, it actually makes them less employable. Who wants to employ a victimhood studies grad? It’s a lawsuit waiting to happen.

    Once the special-ed bubble implodes, we might get back to having a degree being worth getting. I’m sceptical though, because online learning is just so much cheaper.

    Liked by 2 people

  88. I think I have been so brainwashed to think of patriarchy as how it is defined today it is difficult for me to imagine it before that. I don’t think I have ever experienced it? True patriarchy.

    Liked by 2 people

  89. Yoda says:

    “No. I’m waiting for the lootenant to give a better one”

    Leftenants the US has not.
    Just as driving on the left side of road they have not.
    Politics, another story it is.

    Like

  90. Yoda says:

    to think of patriarchy as how it is defined today

    How defined it would be?

    Like

  91. Spawny Get says:

    I liked Tour of Duty even when I cringed at the titles (they walked single file along the skyline…great silhouette). But it was more of a soap than an army series. The final episode (iirc) where a few of them met on Civvy Street was pretty good.

    Like

  92. Tarnished says:

    isn’t that the entire LGBTALPHABET?

    Nope, just those with gender dysphoria. Homosexual percentages tend to hover between 6-8% on their own.

    It probably seems like a lot because most people with GD (self included) don’t take hormones or get surgery or even dress as the other sex. There’s only a very small percentage who have the time and money…lots and lots of money…to deal with all it takes to do even a partial transition. If you think the number is too high, could it be because you’re expecting to see a noticeable amount of guys in drag or deliberately butch looking women? 😉

    Like

  93. Spawny Get says:

    maybe…:) But I usually find the quoted numbers rather high for the people I see around me. Maybe this is cis-het privilege speaking though 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  94. The modern definition of patriarchy brings to mind Archie Bunker. A guy sitting in a lounge chair, wanting his beer, verbally abusing his family. I know that’s not what it truly is. That’s just the image sold that it is. But I think that’s something that keeps women in feminism, crazy as that is getting, bc they mistakenly believe it’s feminism or Archie Bunker will be running their life and world.

    Liked by 1 person

  95. Tarnished says:

    Got a master’s in whatever studies? good for you, next. I wouldn’t employ such people.

    Nor would I. A master’s degree does not automatically make one a good employee. My boss is living proof of that, given he owes me about 9k. See what I mean about a Psycho of 0 being taken advantage of? 😛

    In fact the higher the iq the more likely someone is dumb enough to vote for…say Obama.

    Fer cryin’ out loud, Ton…I said intelligence, not IQ. They are two different traits, as you well know.

    Maybe this is cis-het privilege speaking though
    Lol! Well, anything is a possibility, but I’m more prone towards thinking that such men and women are just better at (gender)role-playing than they’re willing to let on. 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  96. Spawny Get says:

    “better at (gender)role-playing than they’re willing to let on.”

    in all seriousness…maybe. no skin off my nose.

    Have you watched the video on THE NEW POST? It will crack you up about halfway through. leading up to the point where he says, “I’m not even sure that I wanted to know that that bullshit existed”. You don’t see what Brazilian Fart Porn is, but you sure do hear a bunch of it. LMFAO

    Liked by 1 person

  97. Spawny Get says:

    Comments like:
    “What!”
    “Are you shitting me?”
    “awwwww noooo”
    “the fucking chick’s hair moved!”
    “oh god”
    “what the fuck!”

    sounds like pandemonium in the elephant enclosure ring forth (but you see nothing)

    https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2015/06/04/the-problem-with-mgtow/

    Liked by 1 person

  98. Tarnished says:

    Haven’t been to THE NEW POST yet. Is that a subtle nudge to go read it? Almost didn’t catch it… 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  99. Yoda says:

    A hot chick Bloom now is.

    Liked by 1 person

  100. Yoda says:

    A Patriarchy Moe part of he is?

    Like

  101. Spawny Get says:

    WHAT’S THAT TARN?

    A NEW POST, YOU SAY?

    I’LL HAVE TO GO AND LOOK AT THE NEW POST, I RECKON

    MAD NOT TO, REALLY

    Liked by 3 people

  102. Tarnished says:

    Oh Spawny,
    we’re *all* mad here…

    Liked by 2 people

  103. Spawny Get says:

    “we’re *all* mad here…”

    so it seems, Tarn. So it seems. The comment count speaks to this.

    Like

  104. Yoda says:

    A hot chick Bloom now is.

    Though better if green she would be.

    Liked by 1 person

  105. Yep, I am a chick, and my avatar proves it! (I was accused of not being a girl at rollo’s once, they couldn’t believe a woman could “get” all this red pill stuff!)

    Last time I posted at rollo’s a guy said “nobody cares what you think” bc I was a chick. So I stopped commenting there, even tho rollo vouched for me, which I appreciated. I just realized it was a guy zone, not mixed company like at j4g or here. I like mixed company!

    Liked by 2 people

  106. I tried just lurking but I just…couldn’t…not…comment… As ya’ll have likely noticed! 😉

    Liked by 3 people

  107. Back to patriarchy…I have not ever had the experience of a guy saying “I’ll work, you stay home.” It’s always been expected I would work, pay my share. I am highly capable and earn good money, but the downside there is I have golden handcuffs of sorts…

    Today my oldest is home sick so I am taking a “mom” day, experiencing for a whole day what being a sahm would be like. I am actually liking it, and the kiddos are happily burrowed in like ticks. If this is what patriarchy would be like, I like it!

    Thanks for messing all that up, feminism! (Not!)

    Liked by 2 people

  108. Tarnished says:

    “nobody cares what you think” bc I was a chick.

    The hatemail comments I used to get came almost exclusively from 2 camps:

    Rampaging feminazis who were royally pissed that I dared to say biology obviously plays *some* part in gender or that men experience sexism, and MGTOW who basically said that I should stop “pretending” to support them and just go cry at home with my cats because they don’t care what I say and am obviously miserable without a husband.

    The manosphere is a little weird at times, but it’s likely due to the (completely justified) bitterness of the red pill and resulting feelings of betrayal.

    Liked by 3 people

  109. Yoda says:

    I have not ever had the experience of a guy saying “I’ll work, you stay home.”

    Trust in the force and happen this might

    Liked by 1 person

  110. Yoda says:

    and just go cry at home with my cats

    Spawny and you compatible y’all are.
    Tom rubbing off on me he is.

    Liked by 1 person

  111. Yoda says:

    Ton that would be

    Like

  112. We’ll see Yoda, direct the force that way if you can!

    He k, I am getting oodles done today, oddly enough! If every day was like this in exchange for a clean house, a warm supper, sammiches, and, ahem, snuggling — I think patriarchy might be the bomb! What were feminists thinking? (Oh wait thinking would require thinking…)

    Liked by 2 people

  113. Something else I am noticing… When I am doing domestic stuff (cooking, laundry, cleaning) the kids entertain themselves happily! When I am “working” either writing or the agrotourism biz, they are always vying for my attention and won’t give me a minutes peace. Interesting!

    Liked by 1 person

  114. The kids are building blanket torts! 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  115. Spawny Get says:

    budding lawyers?

    Like

  116. Tarnished says:

    Blanket torts?
    Sound a bit…chewy. 😉

    There’s a good explanation for why the younglings leave Mom alone during cleaning times. I recall it quite well from my younger days with the siblings…If you bother Mom too much when she’s doing domestic stuff, she’ll be very likely to make you help with it, lol.

    Liked by 3 people

  117. Oops forts! 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  118. Tarnished says:

    With graham crackers and hot cocoa.
    Gotta do these things right!

    Liked by 2 people

  119. Although the youngest bloomette shows promise as a lawyer, or contract negotiator, or something. She tries to negotiate everything!!!

    Example
    It’s time for school, get in the car…
    But mom…(long negotiation begins…)

    I had not been able to fogure put a way to get her to listen. So i asked A neighbor who has fostered and adopted many children what he would do. He said as soon as he hears the word “but…” He just walks away. No negotiations! Brilliant!

    Liked by 2 people

  120. Liz says:

    My INTJ (well, probably more like ENTJ) child, when he was age five:
    “Mom, I have a headache. And, some short term memory loss.”

    Liked by 1 person

  121. Liz says:

    “Something else I am noticing… When I am doing domestic stuff (cooking, laundry, cleaning) the kids entertain themselves happily! When I am “working” either writing or the agrotourism biz, they are always vying for my attention and won’t give me a minutes peace. Interesting!

    Blanket forts are fun! The only thing better is the couch cushion fort! 😛

    The practical uses for the “toybox” was a big surprise to me. Before kids, I thought it was for toys. Actually, no. That’s the place for items the child never wants to see again. It’s really the land of misfit toys.

    The real toys would be any place you’d keep your sacred heirlooms. Especially toddlers. They will get into anything in the heirloom chest, and those irreplaceable photos and momentos make great toys!

    Fortunately, I eventually found a place to put those items all where they were absolutely safe. The toy chest! They’d never thought to look there. 😉

    Liked by 2 people

  122. Yoda says:

    Liz new gravitar I see not.

    Like

  123. SFC Ton says:

    Say foolish things and get called a fool.

    The problem, from a small government, individual liberty/ responsibility stand point, with women voting is not iq or civic training or what have you. The problem is women are voting. Women by nature spend more money, favor a collective approach, have a fuzzy since of justices and what have you. Not to mention the whole feminine imperative stuff.

    It’s a bad idea in every way possible.

    You can not maintain that sort of government with Catholics, Jews, non Whites, Germans, women and what not voting either. This is clearly indicated by looking a polling results as far back in the usa as you can go. Right from the start, yankees wanted a much more powerful federal government and right away went to work consolidating power in DC.

    This is not a statement on anyone’s value as a human but the hard and ugly reality of politics

    Like

  124. Liz! You just have me a great idea for dealing with excess you clutter! If its in the toybox, donate it! If its scattered all over the floor, they still play with it! Why didn’t I think of that sooner????

    Liked by 1 person

  125. * have = give
    You = toy

    I just like to keep ya’ll guessing! Ha!
    (Read before hitting post, read…)

    Like

  126. Spawny Get says:

    Can’t remember where I read it (recently), but they said that German stock have an attitude that works very well…as long as it’s only with other such stock. The problem comes when other cultures with more individual attitudes get access to the money and power. Might have been Taki, or some such site.

    Putting slavery aside, I’d have been a rebel in the Independence war and a Confederate in the other war for freedom.

    Like

  127. Tarnished says:

    So in Scfton’s World, the following citizens shouldn’t be able to vote:

    1. Those w/ German heritage
    2. Women
    3. Jews (religious or ethnic?)
    4. Non-Caucasians
    5. Catholics

    Who is so amazingly esteemed as to be worthy to have a voice in the government that rules them? Only white, landowning, southern males of average IQ and Protestant religion, I take it?

    Like

  128. SFC Ton says:

    Yep the kind of men who actually established a government based on the principles I mentioned

    Extending the vote to those other group’s destroyed those principles. Look at the voting track record. Like the mess we have? Let anyone vote. Want to make the government shrink and get out of our day to day lives? Restrict the vote as I mention.

    Reckon it comes down to what you want out of life but one set of men created something, the others wrecked it.

    Like

  129. Tarnished says:

    That’s too restricted, though. Whatever happened to no taxation without representation and the like? You’re saying that only the incredibly small subset of citizens *you* approve of could ever be considered a real citizen of our country.

    Why the hell do you think I support MGTOW and ghosting to the extent I do? If the government doesn’t listen to you, get out as much as you can or work to change it. Taking away others voices based on sex, heritage, or skin color isn’t the answer though.

    Like

  130. Tarnished says:

    And for the last time, NO, not everyone should be allowed to vote.

    Liked by 1 person

  131. SFC Ton says:

    LOL yes it is the answer as extending the vote to those people doomed that style of government, personally liberty etc etc.

    You can feel whatever you want, but the results of extending the vote to these other groups has been undeniabley destructive to limited government, personal sovereignty etc.

    The answer is they live in their own nations and not ours. The problem occurs because those groups have political ideas stemming from their personalities etc which is largely inherited that is the polar opposite of small govt etc.

    However much you want to be on your moral liberal high horse does not change the reality on the ground.

    Like

  132. SFC Ton says:

    But you have yet to come up with a workable solution to the not everyone should vote factor and cannot because you will not deal with the inherent differences between groups of people

    Like

  133. Spawny Get says:

    Maybe harmony can be increased by agreeing on anybody but Killary?

    I know I’m a foreigner, but how the hell is she even a candidate? Even worse than owhasisface.

    Doesn’t matter who votes when all the candidates are the same.

    Liked by 1 person

  134. Tarnished says:

    I’ve come up with numerous solutions, mostly involving the examination of one’s personal intelligence, sense of justice, ability to think of the nation as a whole, knowledge of candidates platforms, etc. You feel that none of this would be sufficient, yet you feel that limiting the voting demographic to people who simply look and pray like you is? Why don’t we just say fuck-all to the 2 party system at that point? No need for checks and balances, no allowances for different viewpoints or ways of thinking, other beliefs need nor apply, no sirree.

    I’m not against middle-aged, white, landowning, southern, Protestant men voting. They are a part of the US just as much as anyone else who lives here. Their voices need to be heard too, and I’d fight anyone who wold seek to revoke thier rights. But believing that those traits somehow innately endows them with the ability to govern better than 100% of other citizens is laughable. Regardless of what our founders were, men nowadays *aren’t them*, and I know for a fact there are some people with all the traits above who need both hands to find their own ass.

    Not *because* they are middle-aged or white or whatever, but because stupidity is everywhere irrespective of demographic. Humans suck. They don’t magically suck any less by being non-Catholic or male, etc.

    Spawny and FB, I apologize for derailing your thread. I’m done on this topic now. Peace.

    Like

  135. Tarnished says:

    Spawny,

    I like it. The opposing candidate’s campaign slogan:

    “Hey, at least I’m not Hillary.”

    Liked by 1 person

  136. Spawny Get says:

    Peace is good.

    Can’t say I haven’t had the thought that if I just took control and did what I like regardless of the law, kind of like o’blimey, I could ‘improve’ things a lot.

    But hey, I’m a patriarch. We be like that.

    Liked by 1 person

  137. Spawny Get says:

    I’d vote for it. I cannot believe that she’s a runner. Not that I know who else is available. It’s just enough to know she’s the worst candidate.

    Liked by 1 person

  138. Tarnished says:

    We all think at one point or another that if we ran things everything would be better. Reality is, you can please some of the people or a majority of people, but never all the people. There will always be someone out there who would vehemently disagree with you, and (hopefully) have halfway decent reasons for doing so.

    It is what it is.

    Like

  139. Spawny Get says:

    I’d start with realistic expectations of happiness, see how it went; Making me happy. It could work.

    Liked by 1 person

  140. SFC Ton says:

    Th old way has a successful though short run track record of success. What you are trying to do is come up with a complex solution to a failed principle. Which is what progressive always do “yea we failed last time but we’ll get it right this time around”‘

    The checks and balances built in to.the constitution was destroyed by the very people you would extend the vote to. Why trust them again?

    Also your whole premise is foolish. Your version of excluding potential
    voters is morally oK, bug mine isn’t? Load of shit. Mine would cost very little, your would be expensive, difficult to field, take forever to devise the tests etc but hey it leaves lots of warm fuzzy feelings, because it’s not the traditional way from the bad old days of evil Southern Christain White men. It has never been used, there is no way to prove it would work, or work better then the older, proven cost effect way but hey it’s ok because it’s nice, progressive & politically correct

    Foolish. In the extreme.

    Like

  141. SFC Ton says:

    Being a retired veteran and receiving a monthly govt check would exclude me from my own voting requirements

    It’s not about me running things its about understanding this thing call history and this other thing called human bio diversity

    Like

  142. Tarnished says:

    That is your opinion and I respect your right to have it, even as I disagree.

    Like

  143. SFC Ton says:

    Your disagreement does not change reality but it makes you feel good about yourself; prime objective of most progressives

    Like

  144. Tarnished says:

    I don’t feel good about accepting the individual validity of your opinion, nor do I feel poorly for it. I was taught that respecting different beliefs was the least you could do for a fellow human being. As such, it’s neutral if anything.

    Like

  145. Liz says:

    Lookit that, lookit that!

    (hoping to switch everyone’s focus)

    Liked by 2 people

  146. Tarnished says:

    Liz,

    For a moment I misread it as “The Steak”. Lol. 🙂

    Like

  147. Spawny Get says:

    Look it da shiny shiny *jingles keys*

    And the frog cat.

    When we say we have a frog in our throat…French people say that they have a cat in theirs. Liz’s avatar is raciss against the French.

    Like

  148. Liz says:

    And now (me being me) I cannot look at my avatar without thinking it’s some sort of euphemism for having something in one’s throat.
    Thanks Swithy. Thanks a lot. 😛

    Like

  149. Farm Boy says:

    There is a new post

    Like

  150. Spawny Get says:

    But in your avatar’s case it’s a French person with a oesophageal obstruction

    Liked by 1 person

  151. Liz says:

    I should photoshop a little glory hole around my frogkitten.

    Like

  152. Spawny Get says:

    I’ve never photoshopped, but between us friends, I have been known to Gimp.

    Like

  153. Spawny Get says:

    Farting springtime is cute though.

    Like

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