What Do Women Collectively Owe?


Deti from time to time in response to commenters makes the assertion “An individual man is not entitled to sex from an individual woman”.  This is true.  The law states this.  But is it true that “Men collectively are not entitled to sex from women collectively”?  The question matters because women implicitly generalize the first assertion into the second.  And are they correct?

The answer is no.  First of all, the men (and women) would die out as a species.  Probably many in the MSM and in the SJW world believe that this would be a good idea.

Second, it goes beyond reproduction.  As mentioned previously, and as everybody knows, men like sex.  They will work hard to get it.  They will make civilization work, and then make it better.  They will make sure that all are fed and safe.  So, the question is “Do women as a whole owe men collectively as a whole sex for such endeavors”?

And what if the answer is no?

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Posted in FarmBoy, Feminism, Hypergamy
292 comments on “What Do Women Collectively Owe?
  1. I’m a bit tired to say for sure…but I think that the argument here is the mirror to this post’s one.

    This comment seems pretty good to me

    First I appreciate the differentiation of MGTOWs. I guess I don’t take the screaming “NEVER GET MARRIED” types seriously, I would bet you that one bat of the eyelash would change their tune just as much as I have seen strident feminists bow down for the best players. Sometime ago there was a infamous MGTOW who advised everyone not to get married and then did so himself.
    No, the guys you are going to have problems with are the quiet lurkers who feel no need to advertize, which would be most of them. There are different reasons for their decision, it could be anger, bad relationships, lack of options (take one look at Scalzi’s wife and tell me you would want to live with that for the rest of your life), fatigue, or simply weighing the options and deciding on their best course of action. In one form or another it is fear, whether that fear is justified or not.
    One night in Basic Training we had to crawl under live fire. That night there were three Drill Sergeants, two from the MPs including the Senior Drill Sergeant, and a new one from the infantry. One the soldiers freaked out and, when ordered to advance, screamed “I heard you,” but didn’t move. The MPs moved on him and were going to give him hell, the infantry Drill Sergeant stepped up practically pushing the Senior out of the way, grabbed the soldier and told that they would do this together, and they did. The point here is the infantry understood the problem and how to correct it much better.
    The larger point is I can’t believe how stupid some of you are. Do you really think that you are going to convince a single MGTOW by insulting him? Let me give you a clue, you are going to have to get in line behind feminists, churchians, and a host of others who are already insulting them. Some of you sound like teenage girls bleating “you’re just afraaaid, you’re a wimp.” To most of them, that alone is a red flag.
    Many of these guys have friends and coworkers are divorced and see no upside. No one tells them “look I know that marriage is hard, but you don’t know what you are missing.” Instead he constantly hears the cries “I wish I could have that too but I have a wife and children to support.” On top of this, if he has any spine at all, he has to think that the insults are hurled because the other side has nothing better to sell.
    St. Paul wrote half of the New Testament but never mentions hell, not because he didn’t believe in it, but because he was selling something so much better.
    Marriage can most defiantly be sold, but if you can’t do so then just shut up.

    Yep

    Like

  2. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Farm Boy,
    I hadn’t realized it until reading this post but, the individual proscription has been generalized to the collective. The only men that are deemed attractive to women are unattainable to them.
    I don’t think that this has bubbled to the surface of the collective consciousness.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Farm Boy says:

    Basically the premise is this: Many women like to use the “A woman does not owe a man sex” rule a a bludgeon. Generalize that bludgeon. What if it applied to almost the whole of men? What then?

    Like

  4. I get where you are going with this but I just don’t see women as a group banding together against having sex with men. Some women (like lesbians, or those who have some psychological or physical reason they avoid sex) but this is a minority. What’s missing, IMHO, is the knowledge that men are motivated individually and collectively by sex. Women try to gain power by withholding sex, especially in marriage, when in reality she’s working against her own self by doing it. Men who get regular sex are happy and cooperative, men denied or withheld sex are grumpy, frustrated, and not very keen on cooperation. Women have been sold this lie that withholding is the way to influence a man when it’s the exact opposite. More feminazi trope likely touted by women who don’t even want to have sex (w men anyway) in the first place. Sure it may work for some, and if a woman is so opposed to having sex w her husband (who she choose and w the expectation they would forgo all others) she has no biz being married to him then. Support yourself sista! Women want both ways. Life does t work like that. My advice to women would be marry a man you are attracted to and make time a d effort to nurture a happy healthy sex life. She’ll have a much happier life for it!

    Liked by 2 people

  5. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Farm Boy,
    As the individual male has to accept rejection from an individual woman so must the collective male accept . However, the collective female has not thought this through. This kills the sexual marketplace.

    Like

  6. Farm Boy says:

    Men who get regular sex are happy and cooperative, men denied or withheld sex are grumpy, frustrated, and not very keen on cooperation.

    Surprisingly, this doesn’t register. The question is, how to make it. I think that I will write tomorrow’s post about a facet of this.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Farm Boy says:

    I just don’t see women as a group banding together against having sex with men.

    The modern ringleader is Oprah. And she had lots of help. In daytime talk shows, in magazines, on the web. “Grrrrrl Power means exerting our rights”!!!!

    Like

  8. All that said, men aren’t “off the hook” either as far as realizing women are not as easily and quickly aroused as men, especially w a busy life and kids and cooking and etc. I think game and tradcons or those like Gamer get that there’s a push pull dynamic a man should not ignore. To a woman, “I deserve it sex” by the man is usually a “just get it over with” experience if she is not herself aroused and turned on. Not that it has to take some four hour ritual or whatever, but it takes two to tango. I think there may be many sexless husbands who are missing this poi t – he “bought the cow” (to use a common metaphors, not saying women are cows!) so he expects the milk for free. That’s a yucky dynamic. Better to drive the cow mad w lust and good times, not just expect the price paid for go him let’s be done “obligation style” sex. Much better 🙂 it’s a dance.

    Like

  9. Overly exhausted, spread too thin women are also not usually horny. Both a woman and her mate are wise to make sure ages not doing so much otherwise, there’s no energy for boom boom. Women have a hard time setting these limits, especially in a “have it all or you are a loser” culture. Does she need to volunteer on three boards, work, take on church responsibilities, have kids in several extracurricular activities, to the point she’s drained? No. Men can help their woman see this…

    Liked by 1 person

  10. Women can also take charge of their own lagging libido. Birth control pulls absolutely buyer a woman’s drive often, as can other medications. Female erotica and such can also help get a gal worked up. That way the pressure isn’t all on him. Sexual desire is often more mental than physical for women.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Ok, la la la. Enough female sex drive secrets for now. Run w it guys!!! 🙂

    Like

  12. Luckily for all of you, I need to do some mowing!

    La la la…

    Like

  13. Just thought of ten more things!

    La la la…

    Liked by 1 person

  14. Farm Boy says:

    Birth control pulls absolutely buyer a woman’s drive often, as can other medications.

    What precisely did you mean here?

    Liked by 1 person

  15. Farm Boy says:

    Not saying women are cows!
    Luckily for all of you, I need to do some mowing!

    If you were a cow, you would eat it instead.
    I think that we all are happy that you are not a cow.

    Liked by 2 people

  16. Farm Boy says:

    Actually the word “cow” might be a cue for Fuzzie Bear.

    Like

  17. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    i have read enough to have seen feminists cackle at “enforcing Darwin’s Law” to know that they do get a thrill out of rejecting. It is, after all, an exercise in power. If credence is given to the 80/20 rule, then most sexual relationships can never progress to marriage, too much SMV difference.

    Bloom,
    Thanks for trying but, most women aren’t like you.
    For that matter, few are.

    Like

  18. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Molly has a better idea. Employ sheep to mow the lawn. They work quietly. What comes out their back ends can be harrowed into the lawn as fertilizer.
    Back to cows…

    Like

  19. Farm Boy says:

    I have read enough to have seen feminists cackle at “enforcing Darwin’s Law” to know that they do get a thrill out of rejecting

    Speaking of Darwin, “Feminism dies one second after the asteroid hits”.

    Like

  20. Farm Boy says:

    Bloom,
    Thanks for trying but, most women aren’t like you.
    For that matter, few are.

    Indeed

    Like

  21. “Speaking of Darwin, “Feminism dies one second after the asteroid hits”.”

    I hope not. I won’t have any more use for a woman then, as I do now. Probably quite a bit less. If it comes to pooling resources (and only resources) I’d be better off doing it with a bloke.

    After TSHTF is exactly when women will need to suck down the empowered wimminz pap the most.

    Liked by 1 person

  22. Sorry for the typo autocorrect above. should say:

    The pill absolutely kills a woman’s drive. As do some other medications…

    Like

  23. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    “Femiism died the day the asteroid hit”
    I am not sure of the quote but, I believe it is taken from Jerry Pournelle’s book, Lucifer’s Hammer. Only a rich society could entertain feminism. No society is rich enough to afford it.

    Liked by 3 people

  24. @ fuzzy, ah contraire! All women are like me. I am like all women. Simple and complex. Ask Ton. Are women all that different? The lizard brain is there! (Not that women are lizard brains!)

    Liked by 1 person

  25. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Bloom,
    There are a lot of side effects to hormonal birth control. That’s a new on to me. Ironic, isn’t it?
    Since I started hanging out in this corner of the internet, I haven’t heard anything good about Hormonal birth control. In Japsn, there was so much concern that it wasn’t distributed until 2001.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. A lot here explained it might be
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/17/study-birth-control-pills-associated-with-thinning-of-brain-structures-important-in-regulating-emotions/

    Regulating emotions…everyone knows how hysterical fembots can get. There seems to be a lot of mental illness, or symptoms thereof, among the junior ladies’ femeroid cadres.

    Liked by 2 people

  27. Tarnished says:

    I wish I had some kind of real comment to contribute here, but the concept of sex as a transactional activity is too outside my purview. To be honest, the idea of it makes me a bit uncomfortable. It just is wrong… :/

    Liked by 1 person

  28. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Bloom,
    Something has been added to adherants of that ideology. For some convoluted reason, they take joy in the misery of men. That words to that effect were on Jessica Valenti’s sweatshirt is no accident.

    Like

  29. Tarnished says:

    All women are like me. I am like all women. Simple and complex.

    Like this you are?

    Liked by 1 person

  30. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Tarn,
    Are you saying that we are calling for transactional sex? I’ll have to do some head scratching on that one.

    Spawny Get,
    In addition to HBC, if women represent three quarters of health care expenditure, how many othe modern day quack treatments are they getting? Twenty five percent of women are on serious psych meds.

    Like

  31. blurkel says:

    Transactional sex is inherent in marriage. She claims she will provide sex if he delivers on the financial support. Take away the marital aspect, and what remains?

    Liked by 3 people

  32. Tarnished says:

    Fuzzie,

    Perhaps I’m more tired than I thought, but yes, it does sound transactional when the term “owed” is used. Men as a collective do not owe women as a collective anything, same as women as a collective do not owe men as a collective anything. At least, that is how I view things.

    It’s entirely different for individual men and women, who may actually be in circumstances where they do owe each other some measure of reciprocity. For example, if I lend my friend $500 to help him cover his rent…he owes me that money back when he can afford it. Likewise, if a friend helps me move in my new furniture, then I owe him a similar favor in the future or perhaps a nice dinner + drinks on me. That’s just how things work.

    Again though, I could be misreading FB’s words above.

    Like

  33. SFC Ton says:

    If women collectively do not owe sex to men collectively then we might as well hunt the bitches to extinction because otherwise women collectively serve no purpose to offset the burdens they create.

    The lizard brain is the lizard brain and is driving the bus most days

    I have a fair number of posts over at that 1st link Spwany posted

    Liked by 1 person

  34. SFC Ton says:

    Ton Spawn is here, mother and child are healthy. She is resting and I am reading.

    Liked by 4 people

  35. Tarnished says:

    Blurkel,

    Hypothetical here:
    If she’s the one providing the financial support (maybe she’s a doctor and he’s a part-time florist), does he have to deliver on her sexual needs? Or what if they both make the same/roughly the same amount of money and investment towards their home?

    My naivete is likely showing, and I apologize for it doing so, but such transactions are still foreign to me. Sometimes the manosphere is like learning a new language.

    Liked by 1 person

  36. SFC Ton says:

    Women are not complex they are convoluted. There is a huge difference and that convolutedness is why you don’t pay much heed to what they say and why sane societies hold women as property

    Liked by 1 person

  37. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    The thought keeps runnig through my head of Ton the Younger sleeping in his mother’s arms wearing a miniature helmet liner, a visored wool cap.

    Liked by 1 person

  38. Farm Boy says:

    Men as a collective do not owe women as a collective anything

    The Government says otherwise. In particular, the Internal Revenue Service.

    Liked by 1 person

  39. Farm Boy says:

    Ton the Younger

    Tonette

    Like

  40. SFC Ton says:

    LOL halfton looks like an alien with head all squeezed in from tearing his way out of his mom. Course the girls are nuts about how cute he is but it will be a few days before he looks human.

    The other thing I am laughing about is how every tells me he looks like me. Damn I am mo uglier then I thought… but I understand people are conditioned to say that in an attempt to reassure paternity.

    Liked by 4 people

  41. SFC Ton says:

    I’m digging Ton the Younger… though I named him after our late brothers, against her wishes but it has been done

    Liked by 3 people

  42. Tarnished says:

    FB,

    Is this truly a case of men as a collective paying for women as a collective? I always view my taxes as going towards society as a whole, not a particular segment of it. Of course, too much of our taxes go to keeping rich politicians rich, but that’s a different topic for another day.

    The idea of men as a collective paying taxes for women as a collective would work better if…for some reason…men had to pay taxes but women didn’t. Yet this is not the case. Just ask my paycheck. 😉

    Like

  43. Congrats to family Ton! 🙂

    Liked by 3 people

  44. Sumo says:

    Gratzie, Ton. Good to hear that everyone is healthy.

    Liked by 2 people

  45. Farm Boy says:

    So it was a boy. Somehow I thought it was a girl.

    Congratulations.

    Winston lit a stogie in your honor

    Like

  46. Farm Boy says:

    Is this truly a case of men as a collective paying for women as a collective?

    More true than not

    Liked by 1 person

  47. By golly — a hearty toast to half-ton! (Clink!) may he improve the world, lead boldly, do his family proud, and carry his name proudly.

    Sniff! I bet he’s a cute little guy!

    (Eggs popping in joy!!!)

    Like

  48. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    I once saw a movie set during WWII and the new father was asked, “Does the baby look like you?” He replied,”No. He looks like Winston Churchill.”
    At that moment, I saw that all babies, no matter their race, look like Winston Churchill.

    Liked by 1 person

  49. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Tarn,
    It is a shame that Man, Woman, Myth is no more. One of his videos could break it down for you. I have another source and I will look for it. Basically, men pay the loin’s share of taxes, while women derive the lion’s share of benefits.

    Liked by 1 person

  50. (Bloom sneaks a fully stocked bar cart under cover of assorted non alcoholic drinks past the nurses station while Liz carries in a huge platter of sammiches! Illegal fireworks in the parking lot in 60 min! Squee! Bloom prepares the mortars and passes around sparklers!!!)

    Liked by 2 people

  51. (Bloom hands family Ton a booklet of coupons good for 12 free babysitting nights!!! Liz and Bloom plan baby Ton sleepovers!)

    Liked by 1 person

  52. Yoda says:

    Mrs. Yoda also make sammiches she can.

    Liked by 1 person

  53. Sumo says:

    Oh, shit…..Bloomer’s got the Baby Rabies.

    Liked by 2 people

  54. Tarnished says:

    That’s okay, Fuzzie. I don’t care for his videos whatsoever. There are far better speakers and youtubers than he was, and none that I know of used the ban-hammer nearly as often on their commenters.

    I do understand that men pay more taxes, but this tends to be due to them having longer careers…better paying jobs…going into more financially beneficial fields…and the incredibly small amount of househusbands. It is the other side of the mythical “pay gap” that feminists constantly drag out.

    Do unemployed or disabled women benefit from these taxes? Yes, of course. But so do unemployed or disabled men, like my father who hasn’t worked a single day in over 6 years. That’s how our society works (not saying I agree with it).

    So, what is the solution?
    Make X amount of years of employment mandatory? Tax everybody, regardless of whether they have a job or not and set up various day-labor requirements for those who can’t pay? Get rid of welfare altogether? Make being a housewife/househusband illegal?

    I don’t know if any of these would work, or at least work in the way intended (to prevent men from paying more taxes).

    Like

  55. Tarnished says:

    Precisely what I thought, Sumo. We should take cover…I’ve seen what happens when the ladyfolk get this way. It’s terrifying. Best to make a slow retreat while smiling and nodding… 😉 😀

    Liked by 2 people

  56. No baby rabies, I promise! Just happy and having been there before I also know even after 36 hours of hard labor, once baby arrives it’s a good 12 hours of adreneliine excitement before everyone crashes. Time to celebrate!!!

    (Fireworks in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1….ka boom! Night shy ablaze in sparkles!!!)

    Liked by 1 person

  57. (Followed by sirens as Bloom and Liz sneak back inside to rejoin the party underway… Gosh, what was tha noise????)

    Liked by 1 person

  58. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    For some reason, i don’t mind that in Bloom. It’s instinctive, feminine, and healthy.
    No alcohol for Ton the Younger. It’ll be straight milk for a while yet.

    Tarn,
    I didn’t know that about Man, Woman, Myth. I don’t read comments much and comment in few places.

    Liked by 1 person

  59. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Bloom and Liz whistling like the Katzenjammer Kids after the pies are discovered missing.

    Liked by 2 people

  60. (Blink blink innocent look)

    Who, us????? 😉

    Like

  61. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Bloom,
    Any sandwiches left?

    Liked by 1 person

  62. Plenty, Fuzzie! (Hands Fuzzie an overflowing plate of sammiches.)

    Help yourselves everyone, lots more to come!!!!

    (Pops the champange and hands around cigars)

    Like

  63. And, ironically I just realized another huge driver related to women and men and sex and civilization — babies created by sex! Ton and tribe guarenteed are now a lot more vested in the outcome of the next 20+ years…and the next generation…and the generation after…

    Liked by 2 people

  64. (Not to imply everyone isn’t, but I know I view all that entirely differently knowing my girls will live in that future, and my grand kids (God willing) and their kids and so on.. )

    Liked by 2 people

  65. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    I can see your point about having a little one can change your perspective on the future.

    Liked by 4 people

  66. Otoh, once one has children, ideas like spare time and good sleep go out the window so it’s a toss up as far as being future oriented… It’s all kind of a blur. 🙂

    Liked by 3 people

  67. Liz says:

    Rah, rah, ree!! Baby Ton is SQUEEE!
    Rah, rah, roo!! He’s a person new!!

    SO exciting!!! I’ve had total baby rabies for like the last eight years.
    Think I quit too soon.
    😛

    Liked by 2 people

  68. Do women collectively owe men anything? The question is strange to me, like “do the rich business owners collectively owe something to the poor employees” and “do russians collectively owe something to jews”. There are individuals who owe something to each other, but going beyond that is going into social justice territory.

    But if it helps, then I’ll say that due to how things are, women are more often bartering sex to get resources, and men are bartering resources to get sex. Although things would be a lot fairer if there was a lot less welfare and other state handouts.

    Liked by 2 people

  69. Liz says:

    “There are individuals who owe something to each other, but going beyond that is going into social justice territory.”

    I was thinking the same. Maybe it’s the word entitlement, or whatnot. Per “collective owe”…well…we have babies. Unless and until humans start sprouting out of pods that’s a pretty big contribution isn’t it?

    Liked by 2 people

  70. Spawny Get says:

    Male non-hormonal, reliable contraception and artificial wombs are going to rock the world…

    Liked by 1 person

  71. Liz says:

    Male contraception is WAY late coming. I’ve been hoping for that one for a very long time. Artificial wombs will take a while. But, yeah, they’ll probably change the world more than the internet or gunpowder.

    Then again…humans may wipe themselves out before that happens, or the world might be taken over by some religious cult and then we’ll likely all be obligated to perform all sorts of “collectively owed” experiences.

    Liked by 2 people

  72. SFC Ton says:

    What’s wrong with the babies rabbies? Feature not a bug

    If women don’t put out and do not do their half of producing the next generation, what is the point in keeping such fickle and annoying creatures around? I reckon the typical women is completely blind to the burden she is to the men she isn’t fucking( & to the man she is )

    The typical office drone cannot have an honest conversation around a water cooler without fearing his job and some lady getting the vapours.

    Russians owe jews a fair amount. None of which would be pleasant for the jews.

    Good to see you around Emma… and yes I can spell that name so hope you don’t mind me referring to you with your old handle.

    Liked by 1 person

  73. SFC Ton says:

    I doubt enough men want kids without a family and the white picket fence for artificial wombs to catch on

    Ton Spwan up keep; well I have a live in house keeper and baby watcher plus I do not work full time anymore. Well not out the house at any rate. I am working Camp Ton, checking up on investment and my disability check is direct deposit. Not to mention what is left of my retirement check after alimony. My darling will work 2 days a week when she goes back… which is sooner then we would like but her hospital was way cool about her not working during the pregnancy. It should be a lot easier this time around then when I had my 1st two. no money worries,worrying about all the dumb stuff new parents worry about, and neither parent working full time should offset the being 20+ years older.

    Liked by 2 people

  74. SFC Ton says:

    Thanks for the well wishes. I am… content with life and blessed beyond measure or my personal merit.

    Liked by 3 people

  75. Spawny Get says:

    “I doubt enough men want kids without a family and the white picket fence for artificial wombs to catch on”

    I agree. I would not be a single dad by plan. But it removes the trump card.

    Vasalgel will change the world, however, because it will be the end of whoops pregnancies. Women will have to negotiate with a man. Rather than just trap him. That is going to be monumental in destroying the female imperative.

    Congrats and I don’t see why it shouldn’t work out just as planned. I hope it does.

    I like your comments on alpha game. I see that “No True Scot’s man” is in full swing from those oblivious to modern reality. It’s like listening to generals from the pike era telling men to just man up and walk towards the machine gun nest.

    Iirc, the Zulus at Rorke’s Drift were told that a warrior of true heart was bullet proof.

    Just over 150 British and colonial troops successfully defended the garrison against an intense assault by 3,000 to 4,000 Zulu warriors. The massive, but piecemeal,[9] Zulu attacks on Rorke’s Drift came very close to defeating the tiny garrison but were ultimately repelled. Eleven Victoria Crosses were awarded to the defenders, along with a number of other decorations and honours.

    I guess that the leaders of the Zulus were mystified at their defeat as they walked away leaving so many brave but gullible young men dead. They probably told any number of the walking wounded that they just weren’t of true heart, otherwise they’d have been fine…wankers.

    Liked by 1 person

  76. Liz says:

    Ton: “My darling will work 2 days a week when she goes back… which is sooner then we would like but her hospital was way cool about her not working during the pregnancy.”

    I think that’s a good idea. The biggest drawback to going to work, really, is leaving the infant with strangers you’re not sure you can trust. Also, it’s really hard to go back to nursing after taking too long of a break. A lot of security and confidence is based on habit pattern and experiences one forgets if one is away too long. Plus, medications change. And it will be good for her to have something that makes her feel competent and in control, because infants and toddlers have a way of taking that away from you (especially for a first-time mother, things never go as planned or the way the books told you they’re supposed to go).

    If she is planning on breastfeeding and has trouble, I have some advice on that but I’ll spare this forum the bad nursing stories unless and until you mention it, Ton. Suffice it to say, I’d listen to La Leche League up to a point…but they are big stressors too. Not all women can breastfeed, and if she can’t do so well (due to any number of reasons from low output to no output to weak, non-fatty milk, to painful sores) she is FAR from abnormal.
    Huge cyber hug! (please let me, I’m a chick and it will be brief, I swear!). I’m just so excited for you and glad everything went well. 🙂

    ((((HUGS)))))

    Liked by 1 person

  77. Tarnished says:

    Nataliya 11:03 and Liz 11:32:

    Exactly what I was saying. Once we get into the idea of Men owing Women or vice versa, we are one step closer to being in a SJW mindset.
    Their rallying cries of “All men are potentially X” and “#yesallwomen” are extremely dangerous ideologies that seek to erase not only contradictory information, but create more groupthink and less individuality.
    We cannot afford to go down that road.

    On a better note, male contraceptives like Vasagel are hitting the news a bit more frequently now, and are going to have their first clinical trial as early as this year. Letting men have a safe, nonhormonal, reliable method of birth control (that doesn’t require them to use a condom and dull sensation in a steady relationship) is finally on the horizon! Just think: if it really is as financially accessible as they are making it, we’ll see a significant decrease in paternity fraud, “whoops” pregnancies, and men’s options will be that much closer to women’s.
    Can’t wait. 🙂

    http://www.newmalecontraception.org/vasalgel/

    Liked by 2 people

  78. missattempts says:

    Sex is nothing but a HUNGER. When I first looked into incels, I saw a blog titled:
    Boy Doesn’t Meet Girl” The blog is still up, but there have been no further postings.
    Why? Either the blogger died. Found a girlfried. Or had a religious conversion.
    I’m betting on the second.

    Like

  79. SFC Ton says:

    Thanks Spwany. Mostly it’s a bunch of men with decent marriages (through whatever fickleness of fate) saying what’s the big deal. No rational explanation, just name calling because we won’t get on board their program

    Being called a gamma is funny as hell though; if they new my n count or my poly home they would scream about me being a PUA. Which I don’t see how I am any kind of artist. Oh well. As I was explaining to a young friend of mine, my comments are for the lurkers.

    I also like the you are a coward thing because I refuse to have a legal marriage. Pretty funny since I have all these bits of ribbon and metal from the Army saying I am not.

    Really the whole thing is absurd.

    When I was in africa, a bunch of them thought wearing ladies clothes and car parts would make bullets curve around them. Did not much work and the answer about that was “some times our magic fails just like some times your magic fails”. By magic he meant technology.

    Male contraceptives will help on the margins, not sure how many surprise pregnancies there are, but it’s an important margin no matter how small.

    I would like the women here to explain to me what tangible benefit women are.to men and society outside of sex and child production. Real tangible benefits that apply to large number of women please. Frankly I don’t see it.

    [SG – this was caught up in spam.can’t see why]

    Like

  80. SFC Ton says:

    Hugs are always welcome Liz… just remember you are a married woman

    I’ll hit you up if she has problems with breast feeding. My darling wants to work some. Part of it is her pregnancy was unplanned and she doesn’t want to piss away 6 years of schooling. Part of it is driven from her sketchy childhood and poverty. I get it all. She would have stayed home if I kept working, no need for extra money then, now that I cannot work any more…. well we are basically duplicating my old income with a bunch of part time gigs. And by doing weekend night shifts she will come fairly close to her old salary.

    My beloved majordomo had 5 kids while.helping her husband run a restaurant. She will be a rock for the new mom.

    Spwany I am good at making plans but men plan and God laughs so who know what will occur?

    Liked by 1 person

  81. Yoda says:

    Once we get into the idea of Men owing Women or vice versa, we are one step closer to being in a SJW mindset.

    Tax money they will return?

    Liked by 1 person

  82. SFC Ton says:

    Cail C is doing an outstanding job on that thread. Which is his norm but by and large the pro marriage guys seem to be throwing a hissy fit and the mgtow friendly commentators are laying out there case calmly… fairly so at any rate

    Like

  83. Spawny Get says:

    A lot of good points have been made by the MGTOW guys there. I admire their positive mindset. And yours. But, I don’t think that these guys can be reached, I reckon that even if it were to happen to them, they’d still not see reality. I think that the problem is that if they give ground on this, their whole world view crumbles. There is no plan ‘B’. They likely have kids that they love and they literally cannot bear to think that things are so bad for modern men.

    For some, religion leads to an inflexible attitude to reality. For others, it lends them strength to combat adverse reality. It’s the second camp that makes me realise that religion ain’t all bad. Like most things, it’s what you do with it that matters.

    I’m in the ‘the prize is not worth the chase’ camp. I don’t believe AWALT. I do not think it’s possible to know that the woman you chose will not become like that. I married a woman that showed no signs of issues, but she changed. I got out relatively unscathed. But times have changed. That same woman with the options currently available? ouch. That would be dangerous. I wouldn’t criticise a man who decided that MGTOW was too hard a path for himself. I’d hope to make them recognise the risks and odds and wish him well with his chosen path. But I’m not on that path anymore.

    Liked by 1 person

  84. Spawny Get says:

    “Spwany I am good at making plans but men plan and God laughs so who know what will occur?”

    Let’s just say that ,while there are no guarantees…my money is on you and your tribe.

    Like

  85. SFC Ton says:

    LOL the money bet is always on me. I’ve been getting knocked down only to come back better for decades now.

    Regarding the other thread; for me it’s about the lurkers and not the pro marriage crowd. They are beyond reaching nor can they see that for some men it simply isn’t worth the risk vs other risky behaviour. My theory is, the pro marriage crowd is driven by fear of the unknown.

    Liked by 1 person

  86. thedeti says:

    @ BLoom:

    “I just don’t see women as a group banding together against having sex with men.”

    But women already have banded together against having sex with men. As a collective, women have already hoisted the middle finger and said a collective “fuck off and die” to men.

    Liked by 1 person

  87. thedeti says:

    “Men as a collective do not owe women as a collective anything, same as women as a collective do not owe men as a collective anything. At least, that is how I view things. ”

    And yet, they do. Men do owe women collectively, and women have reciprocal collective obligations.

    We call this arrangement “civilization”.

    Liked by 1 person

  88. Yoda says:

    Perhaps “social contract” a better term it is.

    Liked by 1 person

  89. In nature, it is often on the male to prove he is the best and most worthy mate. Many lions, bucks, stallions, etc wander alone and either build themselves into that and eventually have their own clan, or not. Females want to give their own young the best genes, so that hopefully those offspring that are male will be the next to triumph. (The females are “in” bc of the commune). It’s not “fair” for sure, but it seems to be the way things are by design. Of course I know some believe it is all about reproduction, our existence, I don’t agree. Life is about living, enjoying, striving for one’s personal highest whatever that may be. Many people who have changed the world or done worthy things were not parents. And maybe they had the energy and time bc they weren’t parents? I am rambling… I guess in a long way I am saying what Rollo and others have… Men who invest in becoming that guy, who lift weights, self improve, achieve status and such, become that guy and then women chase him! Is being “that guy” worth the effort? That’s a whole other question… For Rollo it is, for others (mtgtow) it is not… Neither path is wrong but both are choices.

    Like

  90. @ Deti how so? Most women I know are married w kids, having sex, doing the couple thing. Maybe it’s where I live, maybe it’s different in more urban areas?

    Liked by 1 person

  91. Yoda says:

    In nature, it is often on the male to prove he is the best and most worthy mate.

    “Nature” has civilization not.
    “Tournament style mating selection” and civilization mix poorly they do.

    Liked by 2 people

  92. thedeti says:

    Slightly off topic — an individual woman does not owe any individual man sex.

    But, if a woman is married, she owes her husband sex. And her husband is entitled to sex with her. People don’t like it when this is said. But, the notion that a wife does not owe her husband sex is the root of the collective female idea that women don’t owe men anything.

    If by marrying a man cannot get sex — the one thing, the one benefit, that marriage is supposed to give him — then there is no reason for him to marry. And if he cannot get sex in his marriage, if sex will give rise to claims of “marital rape”, then there is no reason for him to remain married.

    Liked by 6 people

  93. Tarnished says:

    Is sex the sole male benefit to marriage? 😕
    If so, then I am relieved to have already made the decision not to wed.

    Re: marital rape
    There is a huge difference between a woman who is actually maritally raped and one who has sex out of a sense of duty or love. Both of these are, of course, also very different than a couple who has sex because they have equal libidos.

    Edit to add:
    A man can be maritally raped as well. It was years ago so I don’t recall which forum it was on, but one MGTOW told of how his soon-to-be-ex wife would force him to service her sexually. If he did not, then she threw lamps/pans/shoes at him and threatened to fight for sole rather than shared custody of their children. Thus, he had sex with her even though it disgusted him to do so and he didn’t want to. As always, rape is never a one-sex crime.

    Liked by 1 person

  94. Tarnished says:

    Yoda,

    Yes. Social contract is a far more realistic term.

    Like

  95. thedeti says:

    “Is sex the sole male benefit to marriage?”

    Yes. All else is burden and obligation. They are, however, light burdens and easy obligations, because the body of a welcoming woman is the reward.

    Liked by 3 people

  96. Yoda says:

    a welcoming woman is the reward.

    After 800 years still true this is.

    Liked by 1 person

  97. Tarnished says:

    Then I reiterate that I’m thankful I saw the light early on in life and have shunned marriage. It is not my desire to be a burden or force obligations upon anyone, especially not someone I love. Tis better to live one’s life alone than to do so.

    Like

  98. thedeti says:

    Tarn:

    Your confusion on this is simply because you see it differently. In doing so you completely miss the point.

    A man is more than willing to take on these burdens and obligations — if, and only if, he has the realized promise of a sexy woman willing to do nasty, dirty, slutty things to him, and only for him and to him.

    If he has that, his burdens lighten, his obligations are mere chores. Easy as pie to carry out.

    A woman who sexes her man, and sexes him good, and enjoys it, will have a man who will do literally ANYTHING for her.

    Liked by 4 people

  99. Spawny Get says:

    Got to say that I agree with Deti’s last few comments.

    beyond the sex issue

    It’s not that men are averse to receiving help from women within marriage, but unless they married a unicorn, I suspect most men don’t get direct help. They get sammiches made while they’re fixing stuff, perhaps. Sort of indirect help. That help is received happily (it isn’t meaningless)…but it’s mainly about the sex and the having kids in a healthy environment.

    Liked by 1 person

  100. thedeti says:

    If a wife does not owe her husband sex, then a husband does not owe his wife:

    1. Time
    2. financial support
    3. investment
    4. attention
    5. commitment
    6 sexual fidelity

    In marriage, sex is transactional. So is the husband’s time, labor and attention.

    The problems are arising where women deprive husbands of sex; but have the audacity to still demand that the husbands work work work and pay pay pay for no reciprocal, concomitant benefit. Wives demand that husbands work and pay, and get nothing back for it.

    Liked by 5 people

  101. thedeti says:

    Should be

    Wives demand that husbands work and pay, and are unwilling to give their husbands anything back for it.

    Liked by 1 person

  102. thedeti says:

    In my view, a wife’s refusal to have sex with her husband is a breach of the marital contract. It is grounds for divorce. It is essentially marital abandonment. It is essentially a statement by the wife that she no longer considers herself married.

    She should be treated as such. A husband receiving such diktats from a wife should immediately hunker down for all out war, and divorce his wife.

    A statement from a wife that she will not have sex with her husband is nothing short of a declaration of war.

    Liked by 5 people

  103. Tarnished says:

    Spawny,

    I agree with deti that that’s how things for the modern lucky man are…but surely having a full fledged partner would be preferable, even if she’s purely complementary?

    Someone who creates no burdens or obligations. Who is, as their religion calls it, a “helpmate”, meant to stand as a couple against the hardships and tribulations of the world instead of introducing more herself. I can mentally understand that sex can be a reward for dealing with the aforementioned burdens…but *should* it be? Or would the taste of sex not be that much sweeter if there were no obligations to potentially sour it in the first place?

    (These might be hypotheticals, or only for men who’ve found unicorns.)

    Liked by 1 person

  104. Yes, married people “owe” each other sex. That’s kind of the deal, isn’t it? That they will have sex only w each other, for life. I don’t see why women think that’s a bad thing? If a wife isn’t ok w her hubby getting it on the side, well….

    Liked by 3 people

  105. @ Yoda don’t get me wrong, I am not advocating a return to harems or anything 😉

    Like

  106. Tarnished says:

    The problems are arising where women deprive husbands of sex; but have the audacity to still demand that the husbands work work work and pay pay pay for no reciprocal, concomitant benefit.

    Agreed. Which is why I cannot find fault with men who seek sex outside of marriage if it is not forthcoming within it.

    Liked by 2 people

  107. Wait are you guys telling me that I could never work again except in the kitchen and home, never worry about the bills, the mowing, the blah blah — in exchange for willing sex??? Sign me up! 😉

    (Women used to have this deal but it “wasn’t enough. They wanted to be men. Now, they want the best of both, but expect that not to come at some give otherwise? Not a well thought out plan…)

    Liked by 3 people

  108. I’m LOLing at the propeller on Spawny Ghost’s head (that propeller helps the ghost float, how innovative!).

    “In the late 1940s, science fiction fanzine artist Ray Nelson (himself still in high school) adopted the use of the propeller beanie as emblematic shorthand for science fiction fandom. This was in self-mockery of the popular image of fans as childish and concerned with ephemera (such as science fiction)…

    Today, computer savvy and other technically proficient people are sometimes pejoratively referred to as propellerheads thanks to the one-time popularity of the propeller beanie.”

    Ahaha I’m calling all u INTJs propellerheads now. :p

    Liked by 2 people

  109. Spawny Get says:

    Could amuse
    Neomasculinity: The Male Backlash Against Toxic Women
    PrisonPlanetLive

    And analysis
    Infowars Bashes MGTOW, in Favor of “Neo Masculinism” lol, LOL!
    bar bar

    Like

  110. I live in an area w a religous sect that never adopted feminism. My neighbor, a 20 year old stay at home wife and mom, has the life! Hanging out w her friends w kids who come and go all day, doing craft projects and nesting, cooking, not a care in the world. I think it looks pretty darn sweet, if you ask me (as I sit on my mower for hours on end, with the weight of my family’s entire world upon me. Women screwed themselves!

    Liked by 4 people

  111. Yay for the successful baby birth in Sfc Ton’s household~

    “Rah, rah, ree!! Baby Ton is SQUEEE!
    Rah, rah, roo!! He’s a person new!!”

    Lol, a puppy cheerleader ^^

    “SO exciting!!! I’ve had total baby rabies for like the last eight years.
    Think I quit too soon”. Don’t be greedy, Liz, tsk tsk, I think u’ve had enough. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  112. SFC Ton says:

    To what degree the girls are not burdens is the degree that they have subordinated themselves to my vision and will.

    Other sex and even sex can be hired out for less money and hassle then the typical burdens women create

    Like

  113. Liz says:

    “I agree with deti that that’s how things for the modern lucky man are…but surely having a full fledged partner would be preferable, even if she’s purely complementary?

    Someone who creates no burdens or obligations. Who is, as their religion calls it, a “helpmate”, meant to stand as a couple against the hardships and tribulations of the world instead of introducing more herself. I can mentally understand that sex can be a reward for dealing with the aforementioned burdens…but *should* it be? Or would the taste of sex not be that much sweeter if there were no obligations to potentially sour it in the first place?”

    I’m not sure it’s possible to have NO “burdens or obligations” in a family relationship. Surely someone is going to need something. I like to think of it more as mutual interdependence and reciprocity. But I think it kind of puts a damper on the experience to actually think about sex as an obligation. I mean…I can intellectualize that there’s an obligation there, but I don’t consciously think of it that way (except online I guess).

    A family becomes more interdependent with time and kind of evolves (ideally). No man marries a woman because he wants a great accountant or cook…he wants to lock down exclusive sex with this woman, and perhaps raise a family. That’s it. That’s the reason for going into it. Over the years he might come to rely on her for cooking/book keeping/and any other number of professional and/or family things. Those have value, but they aren’t the reason he signed the papers.

    Liked by 6 people

  114. Tarnished says:

    Bloom nails it at 4:51.👍

    Like

  115. Feminism pretty much obliterated the lifestyle my neighbors lead. Both men and women have been taught those days are done, those days were bad, equality is the way! But is it?

    I was raised to be a career woman, not a wife and mom. I was told I was “too smart” to waste my life doing that. So I got the degree, got the career, etc. how’s that working?

    Likewise both my kids dads fully expected me to contribute half financially. Stay at home wife/mom? It was never even an option. So men are also being raised to expect a two income household, likely not realizing the trade off will likely be few sammiches and a gal too tired for sex.

    My neighbor’s husband was raised to expect he would support his family financially. And he does a beautiful job of it, too. He redid their house top to bottom before he moved in. We all thought he was a house flipper. But then he brought Opal home, the most darling beautiful little doll of a wife you ever did see. Both maybe 18 or 19. And they seem very happy.

    I am telling ya’ll (not that you will probably disagree) but from what I see THAT works a whole lot better than this mess we were born into and sold as “new and improved. Pffft that!

    Liked by 2 people

  116. Liz says:

    I used to exchange sex for homework help when Mike and I were dating.
    That was kind of fun.

    Liked by 3 people

  117. Liz says:

    What can I say? The guy needed help with his homework.
    😛

    Liked by 3 people

  118. Or my former babysitter, now a mom herself. Her courtship and then engagement were short, and well supervised. His goal was to make a baby on their wedding night (it took a bit longer, three months.) I highly doubt they had sex prior to marriage, and at least her I am sure not w anyone but him if it did happen prior. For the first few months after she wed she would show up w hickeys, blushing. And again, they are pretty darn happily married!

    Liked by 1 person

  119. Tarnished says:

    I’m not sure it’s possible to have NO “burdens or obligations” in a family relationship. Surely someone is going to need something. I like to think of it more as mutual interdependence and reciprocity.

    Correct. It’s not that the woman adds all burdens and it’s the man’s job to deal with them in exchange for sex. It’s that both the man and the woman work together to combat all issues that the other brings, and the mutally desired sex is the benefit each reaps for helping the other.

    Liked by 1 person

  120. Yoda says:

    I used to exchange sex for homework help when Mike and I were dating.

    Still green at that time were you?

    Liked by 2 people

  121. Spawny Get says:

    Sounds good, Tarn (@ 4:50). Can I have a quote for delivery? What kind of lead time are we talking about for unicorns? 😉 You are indeed describing an attractive proposition. Could be a limited stock available…

    Liked by 1 person

  122. Yoda says:

    Mike a good guy he would be.
    Green he does like.

    Liked by 2 people

  123. SFC Ton says:

    For all.this it’s not all.burdens so far the tangible benefit has still.been sex and now doing the dudes homework. Which is a big deal no doubt

    Liked by 1 person

  124. @ Liz poor mike, trading sex for homework help! Lol. Did you dress up like a teacher, too? 😉

    Liked by 2 people

  125. Tarnished says:

    Spawny,

    Oh, about 1 generation after we get rid of Feminism and go back to teaching ALL kids the importance of personal responsibility, frugality, honor, compassion for others, and pride in oneself.

    So…awhile. 😦

    Liked by 3 people

  126. I actually don’t think women getting educated and having jobs is the problem, although I still have limited experience with the world so my views may well change. For eg, there will be couples around in which the man is disabled or for some reason unable to work or to work full-time, or in some cases he may be unable to support a family even with a full-time salary. In those cases, having a wife who can supplement the household income with her own job will be very helpful.

    It’s just that when a woman is married, she has to remember she’s working for her family, for her husband and kids. Not just for herself. So with that mindset, it makes no sense for her to put her job first, like by continually coming home late and having no time for her husband and kids.

    My sister was one of those career women, staying till 2am in the office, back in office before 9. But she stopped doing that before getting married. She still works and makes a comfortable salary, but leaves by around 5pm, comes home to cook, spend time with her husband etc. They seem happily married so far. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  127. Tarnished says:

    Alana,

    Yup. Unless a woman finds a househusband and/or doesn’t want kids, she (like nearly all men before her) has to realize that it really *is* one or the other.

    Pick ONE: Career or Family.

    Like

  128. Spawny Get says:

    So a clear out of a large part of the cabal of lefty teachers. They’re going to be hard to shift, not least because apart from cat herders such women have few alternative career paths.

    Liked by 2 people

  129. Tarnished says:

    Not to say it can’t be done as a single mom…Bloom proves everyday that it is possible. But I think there’s ample evidence on this thread alone that it is not what one should strive for.

    Liked by 1 person

  130. Spawny Get says:

    Has there been a reaction in your circles (Tarn) to the latest beeboid drama?

    Currently the first epimasode is here

    Like

  131. @ Tarn yes I do what I need to do, but it is far from ideal for sure. The amount of work and stress and pressure I face, it’s pretty much doing the impossible every day. It is not easy, I would not recommend it.

    Liked by 2 people

  132. Tarnished, when you say “career”, are u distinguishing it from the word “job”? Sorry, my brain is a little fuzzy these past few days. :p

    Like

  133. @ Alana, does your sister have help w the domestic chores? I have not been to Singapore, but I noticed in Hong Kong that career women (and even many housewives/sahm) had live in domestic help. Does your sister have kids? When/if she does, what would the plan be?

    When I saw the situation in Hong Kong, and when a gal asked me how American women believed they could do career/kids/home wo help, it made me realize that yes w help and support its likely possible, but not for a woman to do all that well w/o help. And by the time you pay for help (at least in America) a working woman w kids spends all she earns on childcare/housekeeping! It just doesn’t pencil but so many women still do it anyway…w/I asking, “is this working? Does this make sense?”

    Like

  134. I am fairly certain couples trying to live the “new and improved” way likely have a high degree of marriage failure trying to make something that does’t work, work. I doubt most “want” to be divorced (except the frivorce bunch) but the stress and pressures of that lifestyle do the marriage in. I know it’s played a big role in my being single now. I couldn’t see it then, not could they, but I get it now.

    Liked by 1 person

  135. Spawny Get says:

    Don’t know if you’ve been following this toxic bitch’s actions lately?

    Anyway, some news. Maybe the start of the blowback against such hateful cnuts
    DIVERSITY OFFICER COULD LOSE JOB AFTER TWEETING ‘KILL ALL WHITE MEN’

    The controversial diversity officer at Goldsmiths, University of London could face a vote of no confidence after tweeting with the hashtag “kill all white men”.

    Bahar Mustafa has already caused controversy after telling white people and men not to come to a diversity event. She hit the headlines again last week after claiming it was impossible for her racist and sexist because she is an ethnic minority woman.

    “I, an ethnic minority woman, cannot be racist or sexist towards white men, because racism and sexism describe structures of privilege based on race and gender,” she said.

    “Therefore, woman of colour and minority genders cannot be racist or sexist, since we do not stand to benefit from such a system.”

    Now, the Evening Standard reports that angry students have started a petition calling for a vote of no confidence in Mustafa, accusing her of being unprofessional and of making students feel “intimidated, unsupported and unrepresented”.

    The petition says: “The current Welfare and Diversity Officer has used hate speech based on race and gender. For example the consistent use of hash-tags such as #killallwhitemen and #misandry, and publically calling someone ‘white trash’ under the official GSU Welfare and Diversity Officer twitter account.”

    It adds: “Any apologies given have been presented in a way that attempts to shift blame and refuses to see genuine fault in her conduct, which has not changed. The response is still to attack or invalidate students who speak out.”

    Liked by 3 people

  136. thedeti says:

    Alana:

    Correct. The problem is not that women work and are educated and have jobs. The problem is not that men marry for sex.

    The problem is men’s and women’s views toward marriage and the roles they want or expect marriage to play in their lives. Most people have a completely wrongheaded and ill informed view of what marriage is, what it is supposed to do, and why they want (or should want) it.

    Most people don’t even know what true marriage IS. Most people aren’t even truly “married” in the real, true sense of the word.

    Liked by 3 people

  137. thedeti says:

    if anything, a man who marries for sex, or because he wants sex, or because he wants sex with that particular woman, has purer motives truer to the real purposes of marriage than the woman who marries because she wants state-sanctioned status for her relationship with her boyfriend.

    Liked by 3 people

  138. Bloom, my sister lives in London with her husband and doesn’t have help with domestic chores. But she loooves cooking, so she’s like a duck in water when she’s in the kitchen. Pretty cool, for someone who’s highly-educated and was v successful in her job before marriage.

    My sis and her husband were married more than a year ago, they’re hoping to have a kid but it hasn’t happened yet. I haven’t asked what her job plans will be if/when they have a baby, but from what I’ve seen from her so far, she doesn’t do something if she can’t do it well. So she would never be a neglectful parent, she would do what it took to be a good wife and mom. If it meant stopping work for the time being and spending less on herself since there was less income, then that’s what she would do. =)

    Yup in Singapore many households have a domestic helper, especially if the household has small children or elderly people (some households have 3 generations living together–grandparents, parents and young kids–although this is getting rarer). Having a domestic helper is relatively inexpensive in Asia. It does help to have someone do the menial chores like the cleaning, but there’s lots of motherly/wifely stuff that can’t be handled by the help, like helping kids with their homework. So even with domestic help, I think it’s pretty tough for a woman to have a high-powered career if she also wants to be a good wife and mother.
    >.< But I do think there are women who can handle a normal 8 hour job with their family duties.

    Liked by 1 person

  139. Deti “Most people have a completely wrongheaded and ill informed view of what marriage is, what it is supposed to do, and why they want (or should want) it.

    Most people don’t even know what true marriage IS. Most people aren’t even truly “married” in the real, true sense of the word.”

    So so true. Sigh.

    Like

  140. Gonna hit the showers now.

    Bloom, don’t think I’ve forgotten that u haven’t posted your ‘Dark Triad’ personality test results. :-p

    Liked by 2 people

  141. SFC Ton says:

    That she could lose her job and not has lost her job says all you need to know about diversity.

    Liked by 6 people

  142. That gal absolutely should get canned. Rediculous. But I suppose that her employer has to worry about her discrimination lawsuit if so? If she were a white male that said “kill all (insert any “minority” group) he’d be GONE, right?

    Liked by 3 people

  143. @ Alana can you post the test link again?

    Like

  144. Spawny Get says:

    Bloom, I really hope that you’ve checked your White Privilege? (There seriously is an app for that BTW…really). This should clue you in

    Liked by 3 people

  145. Spawny Get says:

    “That she could lose her job and not has lost her job says all you need to know about diversity.”

    The hardest to understand are how rich white women are still oppressed by even the poorest white man. Horseshit.

    Liked by 6 people

  146. Spawny, easy for you to say, white guy!!! 😉 kidding…

    Liked by 1 person

  147. Tarnished says:

    Alana,

    I also want to make sure we’re on the same page. I define a job as what one does to afford living expenses…that’s it. People may have a job they love, or one they hate, or one they simply clock out of and forget about til their next shift.

    A career is very different. It is a path you take with a definite goal at the end of it. It’s putting in extra hours not because you are forced to, but because you have a vision of how things should look and you know how to make that happen. It’s the willingness to put in blood, sweat, and tears to a company that you believe is capable of changing something for the better and make money while doing it. Long hours are the standard, not the exception.

    I have a career, not a job.

    Liked by 2 people

  148. Tarnished says:

    (Sorry, accidentally hit send.)

    It is because I have chosen to have a career that I do not also have a family. I’m 31 next month…never been married, never been pregnant, never cohabitated. Luckily, I am gifted with a personality that has also never wanted for that type of life. I truly am sympathetic to women who want a family AND career AND a working husband, but think that they need to realize that it isn’t possible without something (or likely numerous somethings) suffering.

    We all need to make choices, and they are not always easy.

    Liked by 2 people

  149. Wow Tarn, ever think of working in marketing? U make careers sound awesome and appealing. 🙂

    I think we agree then. It really is not feasible to try to have it all. I’m happy for you that u feel contended focusing on career without ever wanting a family, but yeah I think a majority of women would feel discontented without getting married and having kids, and they need to make the necessary ‘sacrifices’ to create a happy family. Kids who grow up with their moms never around tend to have much more issues than average; I’ve seen it many times.

    Liked by 2 people

  150. I know Cartman is a jackass, but he’s still my favourite character on South Park. He’s hilarious. 😄

    Liked by 2 people

  151. 1.9/2/1 is that bad? Good? Average? Hummm…

    Like

  152. I deliberately choose what career path I took w the plan that I could work from home, be w my kids. I do have a sitter three afternoons 9 hours) a week, and the kids go to school 8-2. So I see my kids ore than most. But it’s a constant juggle to make a full time income in part time hours. Plus I am often stressed and distracted, it’s hard to be “off the clock” when I worry about getting it all done. So even w this plan, it’s not ideal. Even when I had a partner and especially solo. That said I could be commuting and working and away 60 hours a week, I guess? 😦

    Liked by 1 person

  153. Liz says:

    That’s great, Bloom! About like mine. 🙂

    I know that Bahar Mustafa sounds ethnic, but that woman doesn’t look ethnic. She actually looks like a person who is trying to look ethnic. Reminds me of Ward Churchill and his “native American” headband.

    Liked by 2 people

  154. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    I had forgotten about this gem of bear video. With the arrival of Ton the Younger it’s spot on.

    Liked by 2 people

  155. Liz says:

    Oops….we posted at the same time. Didn’t mean your career thing was great/like mine…I meant your score. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  156. Liz says:

    That video is awesome, Fuzzie! 😀

    Liked by 1 person

  157. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Yes, Bahar Mustafa should be fired. Had it ben #kill any one else other than white men, She would have, uncerimoniously and immediately. Let’s consider this a test for the status qup. If they keep her on, the status quop fails.

    Liked by 3 people

  158. Bloom: “1.9/2/1 is that bad? Good? Average? Hummm”

    U can join the Care Bear club with Liz, Mike and Tarnished.

    Mine isn’t too far off, either. I’m a Care-Bear-in-waiting.

    Liked by 2 people

  159. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Spawny Get,
    Would all this “neomasculinity” boil down to building a better beta?

    I think Deti explained it all better on another thread, that I can’t remember where, under Marriage 2.0, women have no responsibilities or obligations. Men still have to hold up their end. While Marriage 1.0 was hard, it was fair.

    Like

  160. Liz says:

    Tarn’s fwb is a care bear, too!
    Fuzzie’s turn. 🙂

    Reminds me of a Dr Pepper commercial (gen Xers probably don’t remember this one)
    I’m a care bear, he’s a care bear, she’s a care bear, we’re all care bears
    Don’t ya want to be a care bear too?

    Liked by 1 person

  161. I think neomasculinity is like a good luck talisman that means you can play the old game, but you’ll be alright because ‘neo’. Sounds like Game to me.

    Like

  162. Liz says:

    I meant Millenials above. I’m the Gen Xer. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  163. Thanks Liz, I forgot Tarn’s FwB was a Care Bear too. 🙂

    I tried to find a Dr Pepper Care Bear commercial on youtube, unfortunately I couldn’t find it. I remember liking those Care Bear stories as a kid. U bears get to stay in a place called Care-a-Lot, that sounds awesome.~

    Yup the guys who haven’t taken it should take the test! It only takes 5 minutes.

    Goodnight people (and Bears)~

    Liked by 2 people

  164. Liz says:

    You can’t find the commercial? It’s not a care bear commercial, it’s a dr pepper one…
    Gah, you’re bustin’ my balls, alana….bustin’ my balls (doing my best Cartman) 😛

    Behold. At 1:30ish.

    Liked by 1 person

  165. Liz says:

    Forgot to add: Night night. 🙂

    Like

  166. Lol Liz I loved that commercial, great dancing. But he sings “I’m a pepper, he’s a pepper” etc, not “I’m a care bear”!! 😄 (At least I think that’s what I heard).

    No wonder there were no youtube search results for “Dr Pepper Care Bear commercial”. :p

    Liked by 1 person

  167. Tarnished says:

    Alana,

    Lol, hopefully I don’t make a career sound *too* good…Certainly do not want people going into it without doing some hard decision making! It is definitely not for most women, especially those who at a young age dream of having a bunch of kiddies. At least one parent should be home with the little ones for their first few years.

    I don’t have a Marketing degree. It’s a double major in Business Management and Philosophy. 🙂

    G’night!

    Liked by 2 people

  168. theasdgamer says:

    @ deti

    In my view, a wife’s refusal to have sex with her husband is a breach of the marital contract. It is grounds for divorce.

    Mrs. Gamer is emotionally unstable the days before I go out–Fri. and Sat. It’s then that she refuses sex. The other five days, no problem.

    I told Mrs. Gamer that I will have sex Sat.–and that if she wanted in, she better show interest. She was willing to do it with minimal investment–on her terms. I declined as I wanted sex on my terms and stayed in a motel Sat. night and didn’t call. I came home Sun. morning and Mrs. Gamer saw me shortly after noon. Even Sun., she was very into it, put on her black negligee and gave me a nice compliment on my performance, lol (“You’re better than a vibrator.”).

    Mrs. Gamer’s emotional instability, occasional refusal, offer to have sex with a minimal investment only, a conflict over the terms of sex–these are the things I face. Where is the submission? It’s all about justifying rebellion because feelz.

    I understand that a woman’s feelz can seem more real/compelling to her than her five senses or a rational argument. Mrs. Gamer feelz that I have STDs. And feelz that I have cheated on her. She doesn’t feelz that she has cheated by denying sex and doesn’t feelz that she has rebelled.

    I don’t see any biblical exception for a woman based on her feelz.

    Liked by 1 person

  169. theasdgamer says:

    I was reminded of the woman who attempted to murder her husband and attempted to justify it because feelz.

    Liked by 1 person

  170. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Ok, I took the test. 14.3 for Narcissism, 1.7 for Machiavellianism, and 1.3 for Pyschopathy. It’s not much of a surprise. I am a Care Bear too!

    Liked by 2 people

  171. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Oops! That was 1.3 for Narcissism. Sorry.

    Liked by 1 person

  172. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Gamer’s story reminded me of something. Women bring sex to the table and men bring commitment. While the men will give commitment, it’s like they have to requalify for sex, each and every time.
    I am a confused bear.
    Gamer is correct. It’s rebellion and in his case, mild, thankfully. There is a lot of this out there and it’s socially and legally condoned.

    Liked by 2 people

  173. 14.3 sounds about right for a Care Bear, mate.

    Liked by 2 people

  174. SFC Ton says:

    Ahhhh no thanks to the neo masculinty deal

    The old school version suits me just fine

    Liked by 2 people

  175. Neo masculinity sounds like SWPL type label for the hipsters. Anything to keep men buying into the society game.

    Particularly liked your comment about understanding the reality of the battlefield not being a gamma trait.

    And…good night.

    Liked by 2 people

  176. blurkel says:

    @Tarn

    Hypothetical here: If she’s the one providing the financial support (maybe she’s a doctor and he’s a part-time florist), does he have to deliver on her sexual needs?

    Speaking as a guy who came from a medical family, he should. It’s my opinion that men tend to anyway, provided their attempts aren’t shot down in flames. But if she’s a doctor, the odds are real good that sex isn’t high on her priority list. It certainly wasn’t among the nurses I grew up around (so much for THAT porn myth!).

    Or what if they both make the same/roughly the same amount of money and investment towards their home?

    Traditionally (Think Leave It To Beaver and Ozzie and Harriet as examples of how it once was), this is a relatively recent development. Few men are able to carry the entire financial load anymore. And if Obama’s TPP gets ratified, this will become even more rare. Both partners will be constantly looking to bring home sufficient bacon to keep body and soul together, and constantly variable schedule discrepancies are likely to result.

    But let’s take your example at face value. Equal earning should represent equal benefits. It has now become a question of whether their respective libidos are compatible, whether they have the energy and time available, and whether or not they get along well enough to try. This might work well for a while, but things can get stale. And if procreation commences, all bets are off.

    Liked by 2 people

  177. blurkel says:

    I always view my taxes as going towards society as a whole, not a particular segment of it.

    It isn’t the collection of the taxes, which comes from most of society. It’s how it’s allocated. At that point, much of it isn’t GOING to society as a whole, but to those who can afford to influence the allocations.

    Liked by 1 person

  178. blurkel says:

    @redpillgirlnotes

    In nature, it is often on the male to prove he is the best and most worthy mate.

    There is, however, a great exception:

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/unleashed/2010/01/remembering-an-unlikely-lothario-frasier-the-sensuous-lion-captivated-1970s-america.html

    From another article:

    The lionesses had previously been introduced to five strong young males but “rejected each one, often using physical violence.”

    http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jan/17/local/la-me-then17-2010jan17

    Frasier was such a celebrity, that all of the local older men with trophy wives bought Frasier T-shirts to show that Older Guys Rule and Younger Guys Drool. There was enough economic activity connected to Frasier’s love life that Hollywood tried to cut in on the action: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0070075/

    So sometimes the alphas DON’T win!

    Like

  179. blurkel says:

    Is sex the sole male benefit to marriage? 😕

    Considering what a married male has to put up with to get any, I’d suggest that “benefit” isn’t the correct term, Tarn!

    Like

  180. Yoda says:

    A new post there is.

    Like

  181. Tarnished says:

    I agree Blurkel. But it’s the term deti used, so…

    Liked by 1 person

  182. Tarnished says:

    It is allocated rather horrendously, tis true. 😦

    Liked by 1 person

  183. Yoda says:

    Desolate like Degoba become this has.

    Like

  184. SFC Ton says:

    Equal earning or even earning more means nothing

    The new ideals on family formation have been an utter disaster, how any one can be aware of what is going on and still argue for some version of the modern family or equality is literally insane

    Liked by 3 people

  185. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Yoda,
    Foundtional conflict uncovered it is.
    Nuch like” Who is driving this bus?”

    Like

  186. Farm Boy says:

    Oddly enough, nobody commented on this post’s picture.

    Like

  187. Tarnished says:

    What is it? Other than the header, no picture shows up on my phone…

    Like

  188. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Farm Boy,
    You just reminded me of Sunshine Mary’s Ypsilanti water tower post. For those who didn’t see it. the tower was a very tall cylinder with a rounded top. The picture that SSM used had the tower framed by gorgeous legs.
    Memorable.

    Like

  189. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Tarn, it’s at the home page for this blog.

    Liked by 1 person

  190. @ farm boy good choice of photo! Lol. Subtle. What would my women’s prof say? Hummm…

    Liked by 1 person

  191. Actually I am pretty sure my women’s studies prof would be having such a major s#it fit about the entire post and comments, she might even forget about the photo in the midst of her nuclear implosion! That would be kinda fun to watch! 😀

    Like

  192. Spawny Get says:

    If you like that piccy, there’s a book that you might consider purchasing
    http://www.amazon.com/Looks-Like-C-k/dp/1408802457

    Liked by 1 person

  193. Yoda says:

    The Ypsilanti water tower,

    Liked by 1 person

  194. theasdgamer says:

    @ Fuzzie

    Gamer is correct. It’s rebellion and in his case, mild, thankfully. There is a lot of this out there and it’s socially and legally condoned.

    You underrate Mrs. Gamer’s rebellion. Mrs. Gamer doesn’t want to go out with me; doesn’t like the places I go. She has started taking dance lessons on her own. Mrs. Gamer has started talking about looking for someone else. Mrs. Gamer has checked out. A total rebel.

    Mrs. Gamer will likely find some beta bux loser to marry from whom she withholds sex and go celibate herself.

    Like

  195. Tarnished says:

    She likes dancing, but not with you? Or does she like dancing, but not around/with the people at your current locale?

    Like

  196. theasdgamer says:

    @ Tarn

    Mrs. Gamer thinks that she can find a locale and situation like when she was single 40 years ago. Mrs. Gamer thinks that she is still a 10 (her lizard brain–she will say that she has lost looks). Mrs. Gamer thinks that some doctor will want her for marriage. She is living in a fantasy land.

    Mrs. Gamer is being overworked with so much overtime because her boss needs to hire someone new. Lots of stress which she attributes to me, because I’m a man and I’m not generating income. Of course, my book is progressing, but that doesn’t matter to Mrs. Gamer because she feelz unhaaaappy.

    Mrs. Gamer is working full time 4 days a week–10+ hrs per day–so that she can have a 3-day weekend. Of course, she also ends up working on the weekends as well. I want her to give up the 4-day workweek and work 5 days instead. She rebels.

    Mrs. Gamer doesn’t realize that if I go, she will have to do the yardwork or spend money on someone else to do the yardwork. And fix stuff around the house. And provide security. And drive her at night because she is night-blind. And I expect that my book will eventually pay off. Maybe six months.

    It’s complicated. But her rebellion makes life worse for both of us. Once my book starts generating income I see no reason to stay with Mrs. Gamer. Of course, at that point, she will likely see me as a good mate. But that will be too late.

    Like

  197. theasdgamer says:

    @ Tarn

    Re dancing

    Mrs. Gamer likes dancing with me sometimes. Sometimes she has high expectations involving male telepathy and bad female etiquette. (Sometimes I have been too instructional, like at a dance party, to be fair.)

    Mrs. Gamer also expects to be a non-party girl and enjoy dancing, which typically involves party people. Mrs. Gamer can be a real wet blanket. Judgmental, boring, etc.

    Like

  198. theasdgamer says:

    Mrs. Gamer expects me to know when she wants to dance a particular dance. She doesn’t feel like she needs to ask me to save a dance beforehand. Mrs. Gamer expects me to always be paying attention to what she wants, including when I’m dancing with another woman, when I ought to be paying attention to my dance partner.. All these things are rude on Mrs. Gamer’s part. But, of course, she doesn’t feel like she’s being rude.

    Liked by 1 person

  199. @ gamer I hope this doesn’t come off the wrong way, but I have often though if I were mrs. Gamer all that would just bee too much drama and head games. Of course this is from a distance, I don’t know the details, but I know I personally do not respond to dread game like most women. For me, it’s too much, way too painful and alienating. Just food for thought..

    Liked by 1 person

  200. Tarnished says:

    Agreed, Bloom.
    If I were Mrs. Gamer, I’d be perpetually confused and unsure as to what my relationship was really about. Mind games can make one mentally unsteady…never a good state of mind. Perhaps asdgamer could do small things to alleviate potential stressors? For example, the “threat” of STDs was mentioned earlier. If Asdgamer simply got checked out but got a clean bill of health, then that thorn would be removed from the marriage bed.

    What do you think, Asdgamer?

    Like

  201. theasdgamer says:

    @ RPG

    Yeah, NP, I know your opposition to Dread. Mrs. Gamer chooses to not go out with me. She imposes Dread on herself. Not to mention that Dread is quite biblical–in the sense of a man being out among young women. Some elements of Dread make a relationship more romantic for women.

    And there’s the aspect that going out dancing is how I expect to generate income–through my book. And the exercise benefits. And the social learning benefits. And it’s my mission and I wear the pants and I still reserve a portion of my time and attention for Mrs. Gamer beyond sex while she is all caught up in her working overtime and ten-hour-days-four-day-work-week thing. Mrs. Gamer doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

    Like

  202. theasdgamer says:

    @ Tarn

    If Asdgamer simply got checked out but got a clean bill of health, then that thorn would be removed from the marriage bed.

    Thinking like a man, I think that Mrs. Gamer should take my word for it, barring some physical manifestation of a disease. It’s all based on her feelz and I see no reason to pay attention to her feelz on this matter.

    Like

  203. @ gamer you know the situation better than I. I know dread is sometimes needed and it can work. I don’t dispute that. In my personal situation, with the early loss of my dad in a car accident at age 2 and the resulting abandonment stuff that is tied deeply in my psyche from that (even if I intellectually understand it, my lizard brain does not.) dread completely spins me out, Otoh, lots of comfort and security and I am a happy happy camper. I don’t think that’s typical, situations vary.

    Does mrs gamer say why she won’t go? In her shoes, were it me, I might find that situation too threatening and unsettling, it would likely make me insecure, i’d probably opt out if so for my own sake, better to not see it.

    Hate to say it but there are std’s that can be asymptomatic in men, hpv being a big one.

    Like

  204. theasdgamer says:

    @ RPG

    Mrs. Gamer isn’t a party girl and doesn’t like party people, so she doesn’t like to go to dance parties.

    Mrs. Gamer would have to make it worth my while to get tested.

    Liked by 1 person

  205. SFC Ton says:

    Taking the test would put Gamer into her frame ie fails the shit test

    However Gamer will have no shortages of rebellions on his hand as long as his wife works outside the home and he doesn’t. That sort of thing pretty surrenders frame control to modern women. Especially if Gamer doesn’t have some other revenue stream. and no writting a book and promises of money some vague point in the future does not count. Most books are never published, few make money worth mentioning even if they are published.

    Liked by 3 people

  206. Tarnished says:

    Thinking like a man, I think that Mrs. Gamer should take my word for it, barring some physical manifestation of a disease.

    How is it “thinking like a man” to believe one’s partner should accept what you say just because? That seems irrational, and not only for the reason Bloom points out.

    In my own life, I use the Trust, But Verify method. So far it has not failed me, and has kept me safe from being taken advantage of in numerous instances. I obviously can’t know what Mrs Gamer is like personality-wise, but is there a possibility that she prefers to be safe than sorry? After all, it is easier for women to contract STDs due to the presence of mucous membranes that men lack. If she truly is fearful of you having something…for whatever reason…this might be a partial explanation as to why she acts as she does.

    If I had any cause to believe my lover could conceivably have an STD, we would not be having sex. At all. Regardless of how much I love and desire him, I have to put my physical health first.

    Like

  207. With a relationship gone that wrong, what’s to be lost in putting aside the misunderstandings and games? Clearly it’s your call, Gamer. But if it’s that far gone?

    Also, maybe, a few cold, objective views on post divorce realities?

    One woman in the social circle of a relative pulled the divorce trick. She got the kids, a smaller house, no ltr. He got younger, tighter, more pleasant new wife etc. Let’s just say that the outcomes were noted and no more divorces in that circle. Even women who ALT can learn from a clear enough, close enough lesson.

    Liked by 2 people

  208. @ Ton, yeah the s#it test angle, hadn’t considered that. Gamer have you been out there raw dogging it or ? Does she have valid reason for this STD concern? Or no? That’s a rhetorical question, no need to answer. (Ak, tmi, tmi, I saw the phrase on Roosh V, for the record…trying out the more edgy and ebul dark triad persona.)

    Like

  209. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Gamer,
    I am sorry if I have teased you. From the sound of it, this is serious. If a lot of the tension is from you being out of the house while she’s staying home, ould I suggest staying home at least one weekend night and watching a movie together.
    I’ll bet that she is screaming for attention.

    Like

  210. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Gamer,
    After that last omment, I realized that Mrs. Gamer has no idea how dependent she is on you. I would not like her chances out in the world on her own.

    Liked by 1 person

  211. SFC Ton says:

    Staying home more equals failed shut test. Rewarding her behaviour.

    The proper frame is, stay home nmre when she makes staying home more pleasant/ enjoyable then running the streets.

    Liked by 1 person

  212. theasdgamer says:

    @ RPG

    Gamer have you been out there raw dogging it or ?

    Bloom, the answer to that question is reserved for whoever is in my bed. Same as my comments on a woman’s beauty.

    Does she have valid reason for this STD concern? Or no? That’s a rhetorical question, no need to answer. (Ak, tmi, tmi, I saw the phrase on Roosh V, for the record…trying out the more edgy and ebul dark triad persona.)

    Just saw this, heh. Machiavellian, Psychopathic Bloom. The world trembles.

    Liked by 1 person

  213. Interesting stuff. Must spare the time to watch this carefully.

    I caught some of it earlier…it sounded somewhat familiar

    Like

  214. theasdgamer says:

    @ Ton

    The proper frame is, stay home nmre when she makes staying home more pleasant/ enjoyable then running the streets.

    I only “run the streets” on Sat. at my country bar. Rest of the time I’m at a dance studio. Not too many young broads at the dance studios. I need to be getting material for my book from the dance studios as well as the bar. Until my book’s first draft is done, I need to be in the studios a lot.

    Mrs. Gamer works so much overtime and with the long hours Mon-Thur, there’s no time to make our home pleasant. We hang out Fri during the day and Sat sometimes during the day. Mrs. Gamer also works Sun evening. This overtime business sucks eggs.

    Like

  215. theasdgamer says:

    @ Fuzzie

    I’ll bet that she is screaming for attention.

    Mrs. Gamer is screaming for attention on her terms. She chooses to not go dancing with me. She wants me to go see movies I don’t like. Her amygdala is throwing constant 5h1t-tests and insecurity tests.

    Like

  216. theasdgamer says:

    @ Tarn

    If I had any cause to believe my lover could conceivably have an STD, we would not be having sex. At all.

    Why does Mrs. Gamer believe that I have an STD? Because of her feelz. And her feelz are what they are because she believes that a man going out solo will be having sex with women because men can’t control themselves. Which is projection. Men have better self-control than women do, from what I have seen.

    Does Mrs. Gamer have a rational reason to believe that I have an STD? Any physical evidence of an STD or eyewitness evidence that I cheated? No.

    Will Mrs. Gamer pay for an STD test? No. Her STD claim is all bull5h1t. She doesn’t really believe it–it’s just her amygdala throwing an insecurity test.

    Like

  217. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Gamer,
    I hope that you can sort it out. She’s full grown and shouldn’t be pulling grade school tricks.

    Spawny Get,
    Last night, I watched Judgement at Nuremburg. Ironic.

    Liked by 1 person

  218. Liz says:

    Gamer, I thought you mentioned a while back (in this forum) that you and your wife had agreed to have an “open marriage”?

    If so, unless you’ve actually told her that you haven’t cheated (and from what you’ve indicated before, you refuse to do so), I can see why she would have her doubts.

    Liked by 2 people

  219. Tarnished says:

    Why does Mrs. Gamer believe that I have an STD? Because of her feelz. And her feelz are what they are because she believes that a man going out solo will be having sex with women because men can’t control themselves. Which is projection. Men have better self-control than women do, from what I have seen.
    Projection? So Mrs Gamer can’t control herself when going out alone?

    Does Mrs. Gamer have a rational reason to believe that I have an STD? Any physical evidence of an STD or eyewitness evidence that I cheated? No.
    As Bloom pointed out, many STDs can be asymptomatic. They could also be dormant, or have minor symptoms that are easily attributed to common illnesses. That’s why simply looking at a partner to determine their sexual cleanliness is so stupid and potentially dangerous. Just because someone doesn’t have warts or sores, doesn’t mean they can’t give you some horrible disease.

    As for “eyewitnesses”? Why *would* there be eyewitnesses? Unless your marriage really is as open as my FwB arrangement, you’d likely want to spare her the knowledge that you’re banging someone else, especially if she’s as stressed about work as you say. You aren’t dumb, and would hopefully have enough presence of mind to ensure there are no eyewitnesses that could point to you having a side partner. Heck, if she doesn’t go dancing with you most of the time and isn’t friends with anyone in that circle, how would she know if you are actually dancing or not? Last month, when we were having trouble getting together, my lover went to a massage parlor and got a BJ happy ending (with a condom on, of course). If we didn’t have an *honest* open relationship…I’d have never known. But I do, because he told me the next time we hung out, and am thankful to have this knowledge. If you have an open marriage, then she’s likely assuming you’re taking advantage of it by…duh…having other partners and wonders why she never hears anything abut them.

    Will Mrs. Gamer pay for an STD test? No. Her STD claim is all bull5h1t. She doesn’t really believe it–it’s just her amygdala throwing an insecurity test.
    You’ve actually told her point blank “I’ll get tested if you pay for it” and she has refused? If *that* is the case, then I’d agree that it’s a shit test. If I was so concerned that I told my lover I’d pay for him to get tested, he’d do it because he cares about my health as well as his own.

    Like

  220. theasdgamer says:

    Gamer, I thought you mentioned a while back (in this forum) that you and your wife had agreed to have an “open marriage”?

    Nah, she backtracked on that. It was an insecurity test to find out if she needed to check out.

    If so, unless you’ve actually told her that you haven’t cheated (and from what you’ve indicated before, you refuse to do so)

    Got your angling hat on? This question gets the same reply as the question about STDs. “Bloom, the answer to that question is reserved for whoever is in my bed.” And married women aren’t on my menu, so….

    Like

  221. theasdgamer says:

    @ Tarn

    Projection? So Mrs Gamer can’t control herself when going out alone?

    Women are sexual responders; men are sexual initiators. I believe that Mrs. Gamer would be surprised by her own hindbrain. Then the Hamster would swing into action to justify her activities.

    Why *would* there be eyewitnesses?

    Where is the evidence of “cheating”? I’m still waiting for anyone to provide evidence. As for any direct answer from me:

    “The answer to that question is reserved for whoever is in my bed” TATTQIRFWIIMB

    Liked by 1 person

  222. Tarnished says:

    Where is the evidence of “cheating”?

    Calm your nuts, Gamer. Nobody is accusing you of cheating. Until you just clarified a few comments ago, most of us had thought you were in an open marriage anyway.

    I’m still waiting for anyone to provide evidence.

    None of us would be able to, and personally I don’t care if you’re banging a salsa teacher from downtown or the President of Zimbabwe or just your wife. It literally makes no difference to me.

    Like

  223. Spawny Get says:

    Gamer, when you game your wife you do it by raising questions about your attitudes and actions. All people are doing here is trying to understand what you have done, as opposed to raising mystery over actions that might have been taken.

    No problem if you don’t want to answer anyone. No problem at all. But the questions being asked honestly…should have been expected.

    Peace. We can all smell the weekend.

    Liked by 1 person

  224. theasdgamer says:

    Calm your nuts, Gamer

    Heh, they are going supernova in 3…2…1…Flame On!

    It literally makes no difference to me.

    Of course.

    Like

  225. theasdgamer says:

    My story and problems are very real. The responses have been very interesting. Ton is probably enjoying the show, lol.

    Like

  226. Spawny Get says:

    Nobody is taking any pleasure, Gamer.

    My guess is that people are interested in helping…if they can. So they ask a few questions in order to help generate a good comment back to you. If you don;t want to answer, all’s well.

    Liked by 1 person

  227. Tarnished says:

    Your nuts are Johnny Storm? Cool…

    And Spawny (in addition to having movie star good looks) is correct. Nobody is trying to claim you did or didn’t do anything, or at least I can say I’m not. My comment was geared more towards the concept that if Mrs. Gamer is *honestly* afraid of you having an STD, whether rational or not, that can definitely affect her libido regarding you. I’d be the same, and probably most other people here.

    If I were you, I’d go get tested, just to be able to come back with a clean bill of health. That would silence any worries of hers, and give you the upper hand of being right for at least a few weeks.

    Like

  228. Cill says:

    (yawn)
    Hell is that the time? I’m off to bed.

    Like

  229. theasdgamer says:

    Since you ladies are so curious about my “doings,” I’ll drop a hint about a minor thing. I did something fun and inappropriate that Liz might see at one of her parties.

    Like

  230. thedeti says:

    Meh. I don’t see why Gamer needs to take an STD test to prove anything to his wife. If she wants to know anything, she should ask her husband directly. Gamer would then be obligated to give her a straight answer, which she should accept at face value.

    She should also prove that she is a wife by acting as such, and she should start by ceasing and desisting from her rebellion.

    Its funny — if the shoes were on the opposite feet; if a married woman were going out dancing and never having sex with those other men, she would be indignant and royally pissed off at the suggestion that anything untoward was going on. She would throw a hissy fit at the hint that she had cheated or been unfaithful or was acting inappropriately. It would be all “but it’s just DANCING” and “I’m just having some FUN” and “I’m not doing anything wrong”.

    Liked by 2 people

  231. Tarnished says:

    Its funny — if the shoes were on the opposite feet; if a married woman were going out dancing and never having sex with those other men, she would be indignant and royally pissed off at the suggestion that anything untoward was going on. She would throw a hissy fit at the hint that she had cheated or been unfaithful or was acting inappropriately.

    And then after throwing a fit and being offended, she can go get an STD test to alleviate her partner’s worries.

    Like

  232. Tarnished says:

    I did something fun and inappropriate that Liz might see at one of her parties.

    Bought a stupid expensive bottle of alcohol?

    Like

  233. Spawny Get says:

    Gamer raised the issue to mess with her hamster.

    Now seeing as the target is to preserve a marriage in which both of them are better off…I have no issue with that. Other people might, okay. But I don’t. It’s a shitty situation with restricted options for an acceptable solution for all involved.

    People have asked whether she really believes there’s a health issue…Gamer doesn’t want to answer…FINE. We have no right or expectation of getting an answer to relevant questions asked in good faith.

    So now we have the issue of what to do next. De Ti is right about shoe on other foot. So that’s a reason for Gamer to be somewhat pissed at suggestions to prove his status to her. FINE.

    And now…? Putting who deserves outrage and who doesn’t, aside…what does he do? THAT is a different question. IDGAF about blame. I want results that are good for the Gamers. Both of them.

    I am so much more interested in getting a good result than I am in whether her hamster is out of line (it very probably is FWTW).

    I’m glad that nobody has got personal with Gamer. Because I’ll defend him against personal attacks with just as much zeal as I did with those against…previous potential targets (I wish I’d had the opportunity to do so in time and prevent Molly leaving). Not that Gamer needs White Knighting…but I will enforce the same standards. I just don’t think that it will be necessary. And that makes me happy.

    Liked by 1 person

  234. SFC Ton says:

    Gamer don’t play dumb. Infidelity accusations is part of running dread like you do. Between that and the not gainfully employed bit from a woman most likely raised with that expectation, your shit is weak sauce and you have created a messy strategic situation for yourself.

    I take no joy and find no entertainment value in your trials and tribulations. That’s the kind of shit is for bitter beta’s and women to get off on.

    Like

  235. Tarnished says:

    People have asked whether she really believes there’s a health issue…Gamer doesn’t want to answer…FINE.
    Indeed. For what it’s worth, I think it’s entirely possible that she has no logical reason to believe Gamer has cheated but she believes it anyway. A great many people believe X, when there’s no objective evidence to support X.

    So that’s a reason for Gamer to be somewhat pissed at suggestions to prove his status to her. FINE.
    I personally (not directed at anyone else) wouldn’t care if my lover said “hey, could you do me a solid and get checked”. I’d just do it to ease his mind, and not think anything of it. In giving advice to Gamer before, it didn’t occur to me that it could actually be an offensive request.

    So for that, I apologize. I thought it the same as when a husband requests a paternity test of his newborn child. I also see no problem with that…but then again, I do wholeheartedly believe in trust, but verify. Apparently this is not really kosher, and I am sorry for not realizing it.

    Like

  236. theasdgamer says:

    Gamer raised the issue to mess with her hamster.

    Mrs. Gamer raised the STD issue.

    Like

  237. thedeti says:

    “I thought it the same as when a husband requests a paternity test of his newborn child. I also see no problem with that…but then again, I do wholeheartedly believe in trust, but verify. ”

    And yet, when a husband DOES request a paternity test to set his mind at ease, the wife reads this as a tacit accusation of infidelity. A wife will invariably respond “WHAT!!!! You mean you don’t TRUST me!!!! Of COURSE you’re the father!!! What, you think I CHEATED!!! You ASSHOLE SCUMBAG!!! You’re accusing me of CHEATING!!! FUCK YOU!!!”

    It is all shaming language, designed to shame and humiliate the putative father for daring to “trust but verify”.

    So I can see Gamer’s indignation that his word is not being trusted here; and that he is being told to prove a negative, just to make her feel better. Women demand that we take them at their word all the time; demand that we accept their word as bond; demand that we accept what they say at face value. Why then is Gamer’s word somehow worth “less”? Why then is he obligated to prove his bona fides to a woman who, by his description, is in full on rebellion?

    –deti

    Liked by 2 people

  238. theasdgamer says:

    @ Ton

    Infidelity accusations is part of running dread like you do.

    Agreed.

    you have created a messy strategic situation for yourself.

    Agreed. If my book sales are good, that will turn around.

    I take no joy and find no entertainment value in your trials and tribulations. That’s the kind of shit is for bitter beta’s and women to get off on.

    Sure, women get off on drama. Several here were enjoying their popcorn and peanuts. Sure, they also wanted to help, maybe. They also were throwing 5h1t-tests at me about alleged infidelity, trying to get me to give an answer. If I had answered, I would have failed their 5h1t-tests–had I answered either way. 5h1t-tests can come mixed with serious questions, attempts to help, etc. 5h1t-tests can be hard to spot. The women were looking for preselection and attempting to break my frame when they attempted to get me to give an answer about alleged infidelity. That was the entertaining and educational part. Not my personal problems–those are not entertaining to men.

    Like

  239. theasdgamer says:

    Hint # 2

    Two words melded into one.

    Like

  240. Cill says:

    Looks like a discussion that will get nowhere.

    Like

  241. A new avatar. Not bad. Thought you were getting your well needed beauty sleep?

    Liked by 2 people

  242. I thought (though it matters little at this point) that you encouraged her to think that you had viable options, in order to raise your relative value. According to game this could have been helpful.

    So I arsumed that she’d decided that you had played around…hence STD risk.

    I’m not blame casting.

    Like

  243. Cill says:

    “Thought you were getting your well needed beauty sleep?”

    I had my 3 hours sleep and woke up beautiful.

    Liked by 3 people

  244. My guess is that others shared my guess. You’re looking for enemies that I don’t think exist here.

    Like

  245. I can only take your word for your pulchritude…millions wouldn’t.

    Liked by 1 person

  246. Cill says:

    Wot, you don’t like my baby blues?

    Liked by 3 people

  247. SFC Ton says:

    My guess is the hard core dread was over kill. Options? Yes. Late nights dancing solo…. leads to accusations. it is what it is

    However way to often it’s damned if you do, damned if you don’t so I am casting no stones about taking dread to far.

    Liked by 3 people

  248. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Gamer,
    I still think that most of this stems from you being out of the house too much. I still think that you should spend a night in, wath a video(with lots of horses), and eat some take out food.
    Now, you have to do this because you want to.
    The whole idea is to minimize stress in the house.

    Liked by 1 person

  249. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    This is a litle crazy. Talking bachelor bear offering Gamer advice.

    Liked by 1 person

  250. Tarnished says:

    Fuzzie’s point about minimizing the stress in the Gamer household is spot on.

    The women were looking for preselection and attempting to break my frame when they attempted to get me to give an answer about alleged infidelity.
    Were they? Neither Liz nor Bloom pushed for a definite answer from what I can tell. Mayhap there’s words between the lines, but it doesn’t seem so on the surface. 😕

    I thought (though it matters little at this point) that you encouraged her to think that you had viable options, in order to raise your relative value. According to game this could have been helpful. So I arsumed that she’d decided that you had played around…hence STD risk.
    Precisely this. Informing a partner that one has other options is, in my experience (others may be different), only done when there’s interest in pursuing those options. For example, I wouldn’t talk to my lover about having sex with other men just out of the blue…it would only be a topic of conversation if I’d potentially found another partner or had already done the deed. It’s an obvious and unspoken understanding that other options are certainly out there. This is the mindset I was operating under, as the use of game is not what first comes to mind. But yeah…letting your wife assume you might be using your options likely got her hamster rolling at 120mph. Now the question is, do you want it to keep rolling at that rate or will you take steps to slow it down? That’s all this really comes down to.

    Why then is he obligated to prove his bona fides to a woman who, by his description, is in full on rebellion?
    He is not obligated to do anything. All the suggestions here are merely that: Suggestions. Obviously he is the only person who can decide what he thinks is the best course of action, and follow it.

    Liked by 1 person

  251. Tarnished says:

    It’s an obvious and unspoken understanding that other options are certainly out there.

    Clarification:
    Options are assumed to be available for both of us, not just me or just him. He is in a better position to persue said options though, which is also understood and (usually) accepted.

    Like

  252. theasdgamer says:

    I haven’t been running hard core dread for six months. That was a one-time thing–staying out two nights with no contact.

    Stuff just happened to up the dread since then. A 25 y.o. challenged Mrs. Gamer during Mrs. Gamer’s one time visit to my country dance bar. Then the dance bonding happened.

    Mrs. Gamer’s working long hours for 4 days, my mission, and Mrs. Gamer’s dance lessons preclude Fuzzie’s solution. She has the option to go to 5 days, but she chooses not to. I won’t compromise my mission.

    Things are pretty good at the Gamer house 4-5 days a week. Weekends are rocky. Obviously, if Mrs. Gamer were to find a new prospect, things would change. She is quite picky, so the likelihood of that happening soon is small. Likely her estimate of her own SMV is quite overrated.

    Like

  253. theasdgamer says:

    My guess is that others shared my guess. You’re looking for enemies that I don’t think exist here.

    Wotchabindrinkinbuddy? Wotenemies? Imamellowfellow.

    Like

  254. theasdgamer says:

    Were they? Neither Liz nor Bloom pushed for a definite answer from what I can tell. Mayhap there’s words between the lines

    Indeed. Beta bait. Throw the worm out there and see if a beta will hit it. It’s not a deliberate thing for women, a lot of times–that hindbrain will piggy back on the cortex.

    Like

  255. Gin’n’tonic followed by Cotes du Rhone. Neither to excess, not even with synergy.

    Like

  256. theasdgamer says:

    Was sippin a g&t the other day…

    Liked by 1 person

  257. SFC Ton says:

    Out once a week to dance seems pretty hard core for the most of married folks

    Between this stuff and the bonding issue I reckon you are way over your head.

    Liked by 1 person

  258. IMHO you’re still looking for offense when the questions were inoffensive. But if you won’t take my word for it, well, you’ll just have to run it off. When you’re done you’ll find people still not trying to bait you.

    It’s getting late here and I need my beauty sleep. Take it easy, bounce some ideas around, open your mind to suggestions that might help. Nobody here is your enemy. Good luck, I mean it.

    Like

  259. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Gamer,
    If it’s the weekends, when you are usually out, It does sound like jealousy for attention.

    Like

  260. Everything is better after alcofrol. Got some good weather lately. Been walking around in me shreddies with a glass or two.

    Liked by 1 person

  261. Cill says:

    ” Been walking around in me shreddies with a glass or two”

    Have mercy on us antipodean dunderheads, mate. By “shreddies” you mean Budgie Smugglers? Jodpers? Chaps? Spats? Corsetts? Braces? Thongs? Pasties? Dentals Plates? Falsies? Jock Straps? Chastity belts? Incontinence Trousers? What?

    Like

  262. Cill says:

    You’re shitting me.

    Like

  263. Cill says:

    You mean you’ve been taking the air, whilst in your cups.

    Like

  264. Cill says:

    You can’t have your air and breath it, me old garden gate.

    Liked by 1 person

  265. Nowt like a pair of baggy boxers to allow the air to circulate.

    Like

  266. Cill says:

    You keep with your underpants theme mate. I’m going with the Pocket Oxford Dictionary “fart”: emission of wind from the anus (not in polite use)

    Liked by 1 person

  267. Sfc Ton “Staying home more equals failed shut test. Rewarding her behaviour.

    The proper frame is, stay home nmre when she makes staying home more pleasant/ enjoyable then running the streets.”

    I haven’t read all the comments yet (Exams just ended, whee!), but this principle of rewarding and reinforcing behaviour u like and want to encourage, vs disincentivising bad behaviour (to a reasonable degree) is such basic Psych 101 stuff that too many pple don’t understand.

    I’m not referring to another commenter here btw. But there are pple who neglect, don’t appreciate or treat a partner well when the partner is being wonderful, and only pay attention when the partner is behaving ‘badly’ (negative attention is attention too, and to a partner feeling neglected, negative attention may be better than feeling invisible).

    Then they get frustrated when the ‘bad’ behaviour continues. Everyone else gets frustrated at them for being dumbasses.

    Like

  268. Liz says:

    “Since you ladies are so curious about my “doings,” I’ll drop a hint about a minor thing. I did something fun and inappropriate that Liz might see at one of her parties.”

    Lol Gamer. That could be anything from “high five! Cheers all around!” to “Get the heck out of my house!” (or, if we’re at someone else’s anything from “Hey! Look at that…” to “We need to leave NOW!”) 😛

    Mike goes out all the time without me, and he goes on trips all the time. He’s more social than I am. Even when he writes or works “from home” on his computer, he wants to be at the coffee shop and it takes him about three times as long to do the work because so many people stop by to talk to him. He’s social. It’s just who he is. He invites me too and sometimes I go, sometimes not. He never goes anywhere I’m not allowed to go, I just don’t always prefer to go out. We’re different people and crowds start to annoy me (INTJ, moi).

    However…he always tells me where he is, and I know what he is doing. I trust him because he doesn’t purposely play head games to screw with me and if he did, I would stop trusting him. That wouldn’t improve our relationship one bit. He’s away far too much for us not to be able to trust each other. The only time he has “gone ghost” was about the first month we dated. He got mad and left for a few hours, not days. I went “ghost” too, and he didn’t like that very much and never did it again.

    I caught him in a big lie about where he was one time, in our early twenties, and I packed my bags and it took a lot of convincing to get me to stay. I have too much self respect to put up with stuff like that, and if he put up with stuff like that I would lose respect for him too (hence, I don’t do that sort of thing myself…he wouldn’t put up with it, and if I disappeared for days, mentioned wanting an “open relationship” and went dancing every weekend he damned sure should demand a paternity test. I know women and men are different, and Mike goes out all that time….but Deti used the analogy first).

    There is WAY to little information (and it’s none of my business anyway) to form any conclusions about what Mrs Gamer is perceiving.
    The only information I have is that you
    1) Have gone ghost at least once, recently, and disappeared for days and refused to tell her where you were or what you were doing.
    2) Have actually refused to tell her whether or not you have committed adultery when she has inquired

    THe above was either stated or implied. So, again, I can understand why she would have her doubts if you won’t tell her you haven’t committed adultery.
    The answer to: Have you cheated? Shouldn’t be coy (“I don’t know…smell my dick and you tell me…”)
    That doesn’t really inspire trust (but again, partial information disclaimer). That’s the last I’ll say on this subject. I don’t think you have cheated, because you’ve implied as much online. It doesn’t sound, however, as though you’ve said this to her. One can overplay one’s hand in the dread game.

    Only you and Mrs Gamer have any idea of any of the actual context of the situation and context is everything.

    Liked by 2 people

  269. Tarnished says:

    Liz,

    I agree with your comment, and am kinda amazed at how similar aspects of our respective relationships are. For most if it, you could very well have been describing me and mine, right down to the fact there was only 1 time we’ve actually had a “ghost” fight!

    I am now wondering though what personality type Mrs Gamer is? If she’s one that’s similar to us, then that might explain a few things.

    Like

  270. Cill says:

    “shreddies”

    I haven’t heard that term down my way. Meaning jockeys, boxers, grundies, the smallish brief trousers one wears around one’s loins. The articles of clothing that always come off when one dives into the surf no matter how tightly one ties them to oneself.

    Regardless, “shreddies” brings up vivid mental images that should appeal to my fellow men down under. Hence my reference to “fart” ➡ shreddies

    Like

  271. Tarnished says:

    Meh.
    Naked is preferable, regardless. And before Yoda asks for a trigger warning, I don’t even mean in a sexual way…if there’s an appropriate chance to not wear clothes and not be touched, I’m gonna take it. 🙂

    Like

  272. Cill says:

    “There is WAY to little information”
    Yup.

    Like

  273. Cill says:

    “if there’s an appropriate chance to not wear clothes and not be touched”

    Tarn, that should not be a big ask. Bloom’s Womens Studies prof said so – and she’s right (if you look like her naked)

    Liked by 1 person

  274. Tarnished says:

    Lol @ Cill. 😉
    Nah, it’s why I generally only do so at home.

    Liked by 1 person

  275. theasdgamer says:

    @ Liz

    Your comment @ 22 May 2015 @ 11:20 a.m.–c’est tres interessante. You are my muse. I shall reply on my site with a cornucopia of double entendres and figures of speech for your, ahem, pleasure.

    Like

  276. Cill says:

    Tarn, “it’s why I generally only do so at home”

    Because you look like her naked, or… because you don’t?
    😄

    Liked by 1 person

  277. Tarnished says:

    I most assuredly do not. 😛

    Liked by 1 person

  278. Cill says:

    obfuscation is catching, young Tarnished… 😉

    Like

  279. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    While Bloom’s Woman’s Studies prof may have a horrible personality, it doesn’t follow that she is ugly. Then again, a lot of them do their best to look their worst.

    Like

  280. Spawny Get says:

    If you check the link I gave for ‘Shreddies’ you’ll see that it correctly says that there’s an implication of poor quality, dirty, hole-y, ripped etc. Some of which might indeed be due to high winds in the nether regions.

    Liked by 1 person

  281. Cill says:

    Fuzzy at 7:16 pm “While Bloom’s Woman’s Studies prof may have a horrible personality, it doesn’t follow that she is ugly”

    Love ya, Fuzzy.

    Like

  282. Yoda says:

    if there’s an appropriate chance to not wear clothes

    Only if green paint you do wear,
    then appropriate this would be.

    Like

  283. Cill says:

    I have to admit, Tarn at 4:48 pm is the quip of the day. I grudgingly toggled it a couple of times, to confirm.

    Like

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