Why Were/Are Dad and Mum Mum?


Once  again, FuzzieWuzzie stated  previously,

Boys enter puberty swimming in hormones and having two pair of left feet. From my parents, nothing. No advice, no sympathy, just blank stares.

My situation was like Fuzzie’s.  I got nothing in terms of advice, other than the “get educated, get a good job” advice.  Probably most fella’s history is like this.  If not, then please chime in.

As previously stated, it would seem that parents were/are deliberately kept in the dark with respect to relevant advice.  But is there more?  Perhaps there is.

The Bible states,

Older women likewise are to be teaching what is good, so that they may encourage the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, to be sensible, pure, workers at home, kind, being subject to their own husbands, so that the word of God will not be dishonored” (Titus 2:3-5).

So for young women, they are to be taught by older women.  But what about young men?  How are they to learn?  I speculate that expected methodology through the annals of time was experience.  In my personal case, I would have much preferred that a logically consistent and complete model of the domain would have been laid out to me at age 16, but that is me; most young fellas would be not that way.  And what way would they be?  “Swimming in hormones” as Fuzzie suggests.  And might the best teacher in this case be experience?  Think about it.

Now suppose that this experience perspective is true.  How would it play out in the present day?  Poorly indeed, I would think.  There are three primary reasons.

1.  The sheer complexity of the modern world compared to times past.

2.  All of the dangers for men that have been created with respect to this.  “Yes means yes except when I change my mind later”, nuclear rejections, etc.

3.  The relative power in general that women have now compared to the olden times.  To learn well, one must have some control over their learning experiences.  With so little control, many men may conclude that trying to figure it all out is not worth the investment of effort.

What comes next when men’s learning is stunted and women want men skilled in relationships?

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Posted in FarmBoy, Feminism, HowTo
54 comments on “Why Were/Are Dad and Mum Mum?
  1. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    “What comes next when men’s learning is stunted and women want men skilled in relationships?”
    I think that is what we are experiencing now. For mutual long term-complete seizure.
    Short term is available to women on a rotating basis.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. Padawan says:

    .
    Women In Charge Means Teach is a Preach (by Padawan, Blog Laureate 2014 – ?)

    To claim the right of free speech
    Makes all the feminists screech
    When man to boy teaching
    Gets feminists preaching
    How the f*ck are men to teach?

    Liked by 3 people

  3. Tarnished says:

    I’d always assumed this is why we have both male and female teachers. Thinking back to my schooling (kindergarten through 12th grade), I estimate that a little over 1/3 of my teachers were men. I typically enjoyed learning from them more, since they were more likely to request field trips for us students and were usually easier to talk to.

    How many male teachers did you guys have?

    Like

  4. Yoda says:

    A male teacher I am.
    For 800 years it would be
    To talk to easy I was.
    To understand a different matter this is.

    Like

  5. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Tarn,
    The last number that I heard for grade school and secondary is 16/84 male/female. I did hear from a former male grade school teacher on a podcast. He had to give it up in America because of false allegations. Third grade girls have learned how to work the system.

    Like

  6. Poseidon says:

    Good point regarding the lack of male teachers in public schools. My son has a Science teacher that he likes very much. I am thankful for the additional male role model that teacher provides. Previously, my sons favorite teachers had all been female, as almost all of his teachers had been female.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. Yoda says:

    Third grade girls have learned how to work the system.

    Pathetic this is.
    Think of long term ramifications they do not

    Like

  8. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    I would assume (in the classic sense) that men/parents of the 80’s in the U.S. were faced with the delimma of educating their boys as to how things were, or keeping their culture alive for another generation. That’s the most generous spin I can put on it. Most didn’t want to outright lie to their sons, so they let them twist in the wind as opposed to outright killing the chance that ‘life’ would go on. There are less charitable interpretations.

    Like

  9. Yoda says:

    Older women teaching the young women?
    Wonder this I do.

    Like

  10. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Yoda,
    A point you have.
    For good citizenship, this does not make.
    So powerful a weapon this is, into question grades it calls.

    Like

  11. Tarnished says:

    Wow, I’m thankful now for how good I had it. Some of my teachers were really excellent male role models, and great influences on my thoughts of what standard I should hold myself to.

    A decent number of my customers and a few of my friends are teachers/professors, and 2 are daycare workers. It’s nice to see that those professions becoming more accepting of menfolk…though as Fuzzie points out, there’s a long way to go.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Tarnished says:

    CP,

    Is it possible they simply didn’t realize how far it had gone?

    Like

  13. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    Tarn, to my mind that’ less charitable.

    Like

  14. Farm Boy says:

    With these people, the leaders know exactly what is happening, and how their intentions are being implemented.
    The followers are termed “useful idiots”, and they believe in goodness, butterflies, rainbows and the like while doing evil.

    Liked by 1 person

  15. I had no male teachers in grade school (there was one male 6th grade teacher in the entire school) so it wasn’t until middle or high school I had male teachers, and still maybe 1 in 4 male, or less. In college it was probably 1 on 2, maybe more male than female.

    As for who teaches young men, I would assume their dads? But many of us are kids of those right before the big sexual revolution etc. my mom and dad married a few years earlier, just missed it, high school sweethearts. Maybe they didnt know what to make of this “new” way?

    My mom was realistic and always said I could talk to her and that if I needed birth control she would take me to get it, but she also advocated heavy against casual sex, her advice was “love” but she didn’t say only wi marriage. She walked the line…trying to be “modern” but not really “for” it.

    Like

  16. Yoda says:

    but she also advocated heavy against casual sex, her advice was “love”

    Good this is
    Today’s women advise the same they do?

    Like

  17. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Karen Straughan tells a story of how a woman teacher wanted to see one of her sons medicated. He was examined and pronounced normal and healthy. This made for a frustrated woman teacher.
    I have to wonder how many teachers out there would want to turn boys into vegatables?

    Like

  18. Tarnished says:

    Today’s women advise the same they do?

    Probably not. My grandmothers advised me in the same way, namely that while sex (or “touching privates” as I was young at the time) didn’t have to only be done in marriage, it should absolutely only be done with someone who loves and respects me as much as I do them. I think this is very good advice. Unfortunately probably very rare advice, too.

    My grandmothers were dead/living with dementia in a nursing home when my brother and sisters were that corresponding age, and thus did not have a chance to receive their wisdom. Each of them is younger than me, but have all had 2 partners at minimum. If only parents like Bloom’s were more numerous…

    Like

  19. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    A passing thought. If I had to do it all over again, where would I go for answers?
    That I am here is proof that I am still looking for answers.

    Like

  20. theasdgamer says:

    Dad didn’t say anything about girls to me. Mom and Dad’s mom gave me good advice. Also Stephen Stills–“Love the one you’re with.”

    Like

  21. Yoda says:

    But what about young men? How are they to learn? I speculate that expected methodology through the annals of time was experience.

    True this is?
    Wonder I do.

    Like

  22. Yoda says:

    That I am here is proof that I am still looking for answers.

    Answer your own question you did.

    Like

  23. Yoda says:

    or “touching privates”

    Trigger warning required not.

    Like

  24. Yoda says:

    have to wonder how many teachers out there would want to turn boys into vegatables?

    Perhaps teaching them incorrectly they are.

    Like

  25. Yoda says:

    From above article this is,


    Feminism may have helped women get ahead at work, but it has ruined their relationships with men.

    Like

  26. Yoda says:

    Women In Charge Means Teach is a Preach

    Historically many teachers women they were.
    But sturdy male principals provided leadership they did.

    Liked by 1 person

  27. Yoda says:

    Boys under attack,

    Liked by 1 person

  28. thedeti says:

    “I would assume (in the classic sense) that men/parents of the 80’s in the U.S. were faced with the delimma of educating their boys as to how things were, or keeping their culture alive for another generation. That’s the most generous spin I can put on it. Most didn’t want to outright lie to their sons, so they let them twist in the wind as opposed to outright killing the chance that ‘life’ would go on. There are less charitable interpretations.”

    Hmmm. I think that to the extent parents didn’t teach boys, this is probably the reason — that they wanted to keep their culture alive for one more generation. The part about “twisting in the wind” doesn’t seem to fit with this, because these parents didn’t think they were throwing their sons to the wolves (though they did so, unwittingly). And, these parents didn’t think their culture was dying in the first place.

    I think most parents did try to teach their sons about sex. The problem was that they were preparing their sons for a world that had changed drastically, right under their noses. While these parents in the 80s were busy making a living and going to church and having a bit of fun here and there, their daughters were fucking bad boys and sucking off guys at beer drenched high school parties, then cleaning up and singing in the choir on Sunday morning.

    Their sons had no idea any of this was going on, because their parents had no idea any of this was going on. It would never occur to a dad circa 1984 that a woman would rack up a partner count of 10 or more different men before getting married. It would never occur to dad that his daughter, or any of the girls she hung out with, would even be capable of doing this. In dad’s coming up time, the culture and its associated institutions wouldn’t have tolerated it. Any girl doing anything like this would be pushed to society’s margins and never marry, or be sent to a convent and persuaded to join a religious order. Dad didn’t teach his boy about this, because the idea that girls could have sex like this was completely foreign to him. Rampant sluttiness was considered so uncommon that his boy would be able to avoid such girls anyway.

    Liked by 1 person

  29. missattempts says:

    There’s no point in my posting here because I don’t come from the same
    world as you. I have been 12 for 45 years. Just the same, I love Tarn very much.
    That’s why I followed her here. She is an intellectual giant. Her mind works at
    warp speed.

    Like

  30. Tarnished says:

    Thanks, Liz and Spawny! It was a quickie, but a goodie, lol. And yes, you are 100% correct Spawny me mate…I was just happy to have it wit the guy I care about. I wasn’t trying to insinuate that I cured cancer or something. 😛

    Missattempts,
    I unfortunately think you’ve fallen “in love” with a highly idealized and pedestalized version of me…not actually me. While I’m quite glad you enjoy talking to me online, I hope you understand that I’m not perfect. Okay? 🙂

    Liked by 2 people

  31. Cill says:

    “I hope you understand that I’m not perfect. Okay?”
    No I don’t understand. Perhaps you are suffering from fade-out at the moment. Or a spike?

    Liked by 1 person

  32. Tarnished says:

    Lol. Not helping, Cill.
    😛 😛 😛

    Liked by 1 person

  33. Cill says:

    Team NZ are fools if they challenge. They can’t win. One does not win the America’s Cup. One buys it. In the last America’s Cup Team New Zealand A (Oracle) defeated Team New Zealand B (Team NZ) with a bigger cheque book. Kiwis should stay out of a lose-lose situation.

    Sorry for going way off topic but the America’s Cup really does annoy me.

    Like

  34. @ Deti perhaps it depends what part of the country one was a high school girl in but that kind of thing was not the norm at my high school in the 80s, even at keg parties. Sure, there may have been two or three “sluts” known to be easy but everyone knew who they were and it wasn’t considered “normal.” (Small Arizona town) That said a gal came to town who was raised in L.A. and she did behave very much like that and it was quite a shock! She was not well liked.

    Like

  35. Liz says:

    I think it does depend on where one went to high school.
    I’ve mentioned this before (probably at JFG) but there were a LOT of sluts at my high school. And Mike went to highschool in Miami and there were a whole, whole lot of sluts there (and, his sister was a slut and she dated a drug dealer).

    Like

  36. Now that said I did attend a party a year after high school where it was mostly the jocks and cheerleaders, home from university and most in frats and sororities. (Not my crowd in high school, too clique-ish) Girls were running around topless, there were people doing coke and meth, etc. lije a girls gone wild video. These were the former asb leaders, the “preppy” kids, just say no, dare campaign, etc. I was shocked! So maybe wi certain groups

    Like

  37. Liz says:

    “So maybe wi certain groups”

    Probably. And just different areas of the country too, most likely. Kids misbehave less when the town is small and word gets around and there are lots of other parents watching. I remember a girl who came to our highschool from Chicago, my senior year. She’d already been a junkie, alcoholic, and prostitute. Her first sexual experience was at 11 years old.

    (btw, this is the girl who spread around the word that I was a slut and tried to get her to cheat on her boyfriend and drink alcohol again…and my “friends” actually believed her. She spent the first quarter of the year befriending them and then the next quarter trying to get close to me and when that failed because I wanted nothing to do with her she spread rumors. Fortunately, I didn’t care enough for any of that to affect my life, really…though the angry stares were annoying. Learned a lot about people that year.)

    Liked by 1 person

  38. Yoda says:

    this is the girl who spread around the word that I was a slut and tried to get her to cheat on her boyfriend and drink alcohol again…and my “friends” actually believed her

    Why women this they do?
    Especially prominent among teens it is.

    Like

  39. Yoda says:

    Nothing more back-stabbing and ruthless teen girls they are.
    Hypergamy at play perhaps it is.

    Like

  40. Liz says:

    “Why women this they do?”
    Because they are morons. (nawalt)

    “Especially prominent among teens it is.”
    Yes, see above.

    To be fair, her boyfriend also believed her.
    Here’s the convo:
    (call from him):
    “Liz, Marian (her real name) says you told her to break up with me.”

    Me: “Yes, this is true. She told me she hates you and thinks you’re boring and wants to screw around so I said if she feels that way she should break up with you.”

    Highschool sucked. So. Much.

    Liked by 1 person

  41. Yoda says:

    Highschool sucked. So. Much.

    Over 850 years ago it did suck.
    Improved things have not.
    If can help children avoid this torture, do so I will.

    Like

  42. Cill says:

    Tell me about it. My sisters get grief from other women like you wouldn’t believe. It just never ends. They sometimes have a quiet chat about it and I try to support them without getting too pissed off. It’s enough to make a man want to punch a hole in the wall. If men carried on like that they’d kill each other. That’s probably why we don’t. It’s nature.

    When my sisters chat with my mum, she really does help them. They are too hot and too efficient at their work. Other women hate that. NAWALT. My sisters also have a lot of very good friends.

    Molly gets it too. Heaps upon heaps of the shit.

    Like

  43. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Cill,
    The boats sure are pretty! And that bridge in the background would be difficult to rebuild if it had to.
    Racing should be about skill, not money. What a shame.

    Liked by 1 person

  44. Yoda says:

    Crabs in a bucket they are.
    Understand the concept every child should.

    Like

  45. Cill says:

    Yeah Fuzzy, look at the number of advertisements on the NZ boat. look at the number on Oracle: one. That tells it all. Larry Ellison went through NZ with a cheque book and bought the best of everything we had to offer (which is the best in the world BTW). Team NZ was left with the rest.

    Like

  46. @ Liz, she sounds messed up, of course w what she had been thru one can’t really blame her, but all that was never about you… Not that it makes it ok.

    The gal who was volunteering at my place who I am fairly certain had a thing going w my youngest’s father was similar. At first she tried to get close to me, wanting instant BFF status, but I felt something was off and kept her at a distance. Part of me wonders if she didn’t do what she did out of some sort of revenge, blow up my world as punishment? Who knows!

    Like

  47. Yoda says:

    At first she tried to get close to me, wanting instant BFF status, but I felt something was off and kept her at a distance.

    Perhaps intelligence gathering she was.

    Like

  48. theasdgamer says:

    Highschool sucked. So. Much.

    I went to an all-boys boarding school in a small town for two years of HS. Tell me about it.

    Like

  49. @ Yoda possibly. She was friends w another gal I know, turned out she was a pathalogically liar/ possibly bpd or something. She was married and also playing several different guys at the same time. Not a nice person. What tipped me off was early on I heard her talking about some court drama w her hubby’s kid (they also had a child) and she was so venomously toxic, doing all she could to Mess w the ex, clearly didnt care about the child involved or the impact of her games, I knew right away she was toxic, toxic, toxic. But I did not suspect she would do what she did, not that my partner would either.

    Since my engagement is off he’s been trying to extend romantic overstuffed but I just have not been able to get past the past. It took me a long time to get back up after all that went down, I just don’t know how I could ever trust him again. Even if I wish for my daughter’s sake that I could, we could, and it could work. He was just nasty mean, verbally abusive, hateful after the break for a long time. And he had zero interest in working anything out then. Hard to forget…all that…

    Like

  50. * overtures not overstuffed

    Like

  51. I was super relieved they did not get together. Having to coparented w someone like that would have been hell on earth.

    Her hubby got full custody of their son, thank goodness. She gets supervised visits only. Sometimes justice does prevail!

    Liked by 2 people

  52. Yoda says:

    New post there is.

    Like

  53. blurkel says:

    My parents were too ashamed of sex to ever be useful for advice. I ended up doing my own research. I actually had a “lab” until I turned 18 and that became illegal. But my education remained incomplete. It took me getting married to really learn what sex was about, only I didn’t have a partner who liked exploring it nearly as much as I did. Maybe in my next life?

    Like

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