Red Pill Classroom — Cat Ladies


The cliche is that spinster women own cats as a substitute for the children that they never had.  This situation is considered to be a sad state of affairs.  Primarily because it is obvious that these women have failed with respect to their prime directive.  Feminism cannot change this perception; it is innate.

Men have no similar perception.  Since men are expendable, it matters not if an one individual reproduces; there are many more where he came from.  So it is understood that men should be useful in other ways; and a lifelong bachelor (who worked his entire life) is not considered as a failure like a spinster is.

Why and how do women let this fate befall them?  In the modern world, there are a myriad of ways.  Commenters undoubtedly can contribute here (please do so).  A common reason is taking too long to get off of the cock carousel.  Women have so much attention and consequently power in their 20’s that they believe that the fun will never really end.  Another reason is that they do not really prepare themselves with respect to what a marriage-minded man might want.   Pricing themselves out of the market is another common problem; where women impose nearly impossible demands on what a future husband must be.  What really needs to be done is to explain to young women the true situation and how to avoid these pitfalls.  But would they listen?

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Posted in FarmBoy, Marriage, RedPillClassroom
337 comments on “Red Pill Classroom — Cat Ladies
  1. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Farm Boy,
    Young women are not going to change until the evidence is in front of their eyes and it’s undeniable. And, perhaps. not even then. It would not suprise me that there ase whole industries dedicated to keeping women in this adolescent mindset. They make money.

    There are a lot of women bypassing marriage and getting pregnant out of wedlock. It’s less complicated for them. Even a feminist has said that she has a credit card and can find her way to the sperm bank.

    I’d like to believe the “cat lady” myth but, let’s face it, it’s all too easy for a woman to find a motivated guy. The myth is promoted to assuage men that there will be consequences for behavior.

    Like

  2. Farm Boy says:

    it’s all too easy for a woman to find a motivated guy.

    If she is pleasant and non-fat it is

    Like

  3. SFC Ton says:

    I maintain the real drive behind cat ladies revolve around an unrealistic sense of self system/ SMP value.

    Most chicks are.stoned on their own vagina fumes and divorced from reality on most topics

    Liked by 2 people

  4. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Yoda,
    How about an update on the frivorced Jedi?

    Like

  5. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Bloom,
    You may be able to use this the next time one of your aquaintances starts msking noises about frivorce.

    http://judgybitch.com/2015/04/07/5-reasons-no-man-should-marry-and-1-reason-he-might/

    Like

  6. Cill says:

    Well Bloom suggested I try baying at the moon with Dog, and I did. (https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2015/04/04/times-as-a-bad-boy/comment-page-1/#comment-17056)

    Here’s my report :

    At Fuzzy’s suggestion I played Warren Zevon’s “Werewolves of London” about 4 times for inspiration. Dog appeared to be interested in the tune too. My attempts to get him to rehearse the howl failed. He wouldn’t follow my lead. When I said “a-one, a-two, a-three… waa-oooooooooooooo!” all he did was sit on his rump and fix me with a thousand yard stare.

    So I played him this video of howling wolves:

    He emitted one mournful groan, and that was all.

    At night I brought out a 130 dB hand crank air raid siren, guaranteed to make any dog howl. His big mouth pursed into a small triangle at the front and we both let rip with our howls. His was more of a groan than a howl but it was great fun, went on and on. He never tired of it and nor did I. We tore into the tide and had a swim afterward.

    Fuzzy should try it and so should Bloom. Anyone who wants to get rid of the blues should do it, howl along with a dog or Coyote or Wolf or Dingo – anything that howls. Anyone who needs medicine to get a boner (viagra?) should give it a go as well. You won’t need the medicine after this.

    Liked by 1 person

  7. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    AWHoooo, werewolves of London.
    AWHoooo!

    Liked by 2 people

  8. Cill says:

    Yeah Fuzzy! If you don’t have a dog, howl along with my wolf-howl link ^^^
    It’ll lighten up the soul of a bear.
    If you get real good at it you could earn the name Howling Bear.

    Like

  9. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Bloom,
    You started us down this road. Can you hear us?
    AWHoooo!

    Liked by 2 people

  10. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    SfcTon,
    I would appreciate your reaction to this. I understand that the officer who emptied his clip into this guy has been arrested for murder.

    http://rexpatriarch.blogspot.com/2015/04/failure-to-pay-child-support-can-get.html

    Liked by 1 person

  11. I would howl along but I am trying to get a three year old to bed…And have been for over an hour. Maybe howling will help? 🙂 I feel like howling! Lol.

    Like

  12. I think one reason I was in a funk earlier is because tonight was the monthly meeting for the industry I am in, and I was dreading breaking the “not engaged anymore” news. My childcare fell thru at the last minute so I took my three year old along (older sister was away) and not only did I lead the meeting of 18 plus industry members, and take the minutes, I did it w a toddler on my lap. (She was great, done me proud!) I think I earned some props from the otherwise all male biz owners (and wives) tonight. (P.s. I lead and organize the meetings only bc as the sole female I am always striving for community while they have spent 4 plus years battling egos.) Oddly me showing up and getting ‘er done despite my wee one seemed to solidify the group. Who knew? I am a rock star! 😉

    Liked by 3 people

  13. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Bloom,
    Your three year old can join in! Now, repeat after me,
    AWHoooo!

    Liked by 2 people

  14. Nobody asked about the engagement… Thank goodness! It’s a small world, maybe they already know… Or maybe they will just forget. Anyway… Gnite!

    Ps fuzzie branch swinging just prolongs the pain and brings otherwise innocent people into a unstable situation. Better to hang on my branch till I heal, that’s my strategy.

    Like

  15. Cill says:

    a-one..
    a-two..
    a-three:

    aaa-woooOOOOOOOooooo….
    aaa-woooOOOOOOOooooo….

    Like

  16. Awwwwhooooo. Aye aye aye, yip, yip, awhhooooooooo!!!!!!

    Liked by 2 people

  17. Cill says:

    ooo! ooo! ooo-ooo-ooo AHH! AHH! AHHHHHH!!!

    (Dammit that was Chimpanzees) Here’s Dog:
    waaa-ooooOOOOOOoooo…

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Cill says:

    I wonder what Big Red would sound like if she howled.

    Like

  19. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Bloom,
    Nobody asked about the engagement? Do you think they have heard it all before?

    Like

  20. @ cill aaaaahwooooooohoooooo!

    @ fuzzie I am not sure, hard to say if word has gotten around yet or not. The ex is good friends with investors in a local competitor. So if word hasn’t got around yet, it will. In any case I was glad not to be asked. By next month’s meeting it will hopefully be old news!

    Like

  21. And as a side note, thanks to this post, I realized that because I have children I technically cannot become a cat lady.

    How many cats does it take to reach cat lady status? Or is it more about the level of obsession/devotion to the cats, than the number?

    Like

  22. Cill says:

    Bloom what time is it in your neck of the woods? I hope for your sake you’re not another insomniac…

    Liked by 1 person

  23. Liz says:

    Cill, I think the sphere has a lot of insomniacs…I’m one! But last night was a good night.
    🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Liz says:

    “Oddly me showing up and getting ‘er done despite my wee one seemed to solidify the group. Who knew? I am a rock star!”

    That’s awesome, Bloom! 🙂
    heh…I’ve had similar moments. I had to bring my first to my gross anatomy final! (dead parts all over the tables, he sat in the corner, two hour test)

    Liked by 2 people

  25. jf13 says:

    My 44 yr old daughter turned herself into a cat lady years ago. She closed up her man-shop more than a decade ago, and as far as I know her N is low (a few?). Growing up she was the brilliant and joyful one with a bit of a sneaky side, no anger nor angst, not openly rebellious despite a brief wild streak in college. She has a lot of cat lady friends, but I don’t think they ever DO anything together. They don’t even complain about their WGTOW lives they chose.

    Certainly for her, and I don’t think it unusual, these cat ladies don’t consider themselves *above* men, they simply aren’t interested in any of them at all. They do, or did, “blame” the men for not being awesome enough to arouse interest, and afaik it has crossed none of their minds how terribly unnatural it all is despite everyone telling them. They all take their own feelings as normative.

    Having a wgtow daughter makes it more imperative for me to find a way away from mgtow for my son in order to have a grandson.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. jf13 says:

    lol at toddler at gross anatomy final w/ parts. “Here kid, this will keep you busy.”

    Like

  27. Liz says:

    How old is your son, jf13?
    I want grandchildren someday too.

    The good thing is, men can have children late in life (my dad was 50 with me…back then that was really unusual but these days that isn’t even all that unusual).

    Like

  28. Liz says:

    “lol at toddler at gross anatomy final w/ parts. “Here kid, this will keep you busy.”

    Yeah, it really, really sucked (although, the corner he sat in was away from it).
    Consider the smell…Lordy. I can’t even look back at that one and laugh…although it was certainly like something out of a Monty Python skit. All went well though.

    Like

  29. Liz says:

    It’s always good at times like that to remember people less fortunate. Some kids are raised by cannibals in parts of Africa…

    Like

  30. jf13 says:

    re: son

    He’s 25, and a whole lot happier after giving up all hope of women ever being interested in him i.e. after no longer caring about not being awesome enough.

    Like

  31. Liz says:

    25 is very young, jf13.
    And “no longer caring about being awesome enough” is a good start toward being awesome enough (that and weight training).

    Like

  32. Liz says:

    I’m a real big advocate of call girls, too. I had a friend who was down and used a good one and said it changed his life…(honestly) He has no trouble now (trouble finding a keeper, yes, but no trouble with women in general).

    Like

  33. jf13 says:

    I once did a take-your-sick-kid to work day. My (other) daughter was fine, no fever, but puked on the way to elementary school, and after dropping off her sister I had to be at an international videoconference call in less than an hour. In the early 1980s, one couldn’t miss such things any more than our (great?) grandmothers could refuse a long-distance phone call “long distance? for me? wow!”

    Of course I had my peeps take care of her, but after the videocon the designated peep with all the paper towels let me know she wasn’t doing it again.

    Liked by 1 person

  34. jf13 says:

    re: “a good start toward being awesome enough”

    That’s the thing, though. Attaining the goal of “not awesome” is not actually awesome. There is no actual mgtow mystique unless the guy was already awesome enough to have no reason to be mgtow.

    Like

  35. jf13 says:

    I don’t think the carousel riders tend to be the girls who boys are more interested in, they are merely the girls who are actually (as opposed to theoretically) interested in boys but don’t know how to handle boys’ interest. In contrast, the huge fraction of uninterested girls comprises the lack of supply which is driving demand for easy girls.

    “Why don’t any boys interest me? What is wrong with all the boys?” is a totally irrational lament. In contrast, ‘Why aren’t any girls interested in me? What is wrong with all the girls?” is totally rational.

    Like

  36. Liz says:

    “That’s the thing, though. Attaining the goal of “not awesome” is not actually awesome. There is no actual mgtow mystique unless the guy was already awesome enough to have no reason to be mgtow.”

    That’s true. I don’t think the goal should be “not awesome” so much as “awesome” for the sake of being awesome….primarily for oneself. I’m not sure, as a parent, what I will think/do in this position (we’re getting there, oldest is sixteen now and never had a girlfriend. He’s much more like me than Mike and he can’t be arsed as far as trying to find one, so he might be a 40 year old virgin one day for all we know…I do fear him finding a BAD woman far more than never finding a good one though, but of course I’d like grandchildren and I want him to be happy…but he’s not my only one).

    Like

  37. jf13 says:

    re: “I do fear him finding a BAD woman far more than never finding a good one though”

    Hmm. I not sure. I not sure I should be sure. Something about call girls?

    Pace the Heartiste post from yesterday about preselection, again I must offer the correct version: females’ role is to DE-select. Predeselection is more operative.

    Like

  38. Liz says:

    “Hmm. I not sure. I not sure I should be sure. Something about call girls?”

    Point taken. I wouldn’t oppose him using a sexual service some day (preferably not as a lifestyle, but to get the metaphorical ball rolling). Men did that back in the day brothels were ubiquitous it was part of life. I think my dad’s first experience was in a brothel. His highschool teacher took him (different times, small town farming community…they went to “the city!”).

    Like

  39. Liz says:

    It was right after graduation, thought I should add…he was 17, and going to war.

    Like

  40. Liz says:

    No, consequences there seldom are Yoda. My husband just got the most recent SARC (sexual assault…something or another) legal pamphlet. It’s 18 pages long describing what he needs to do if anyone claims to have been assaulted (gives different scenarios if the media is involved, yadda yadda…all the way up to the Secretary of the AF). If, by contrast, someone breaks into a male soldier’s home and, say, chops off his leg, shoots him up with the whole family and burns the house to the ground…there’s no special 18 page long pamphlet to cover that one.

    Like

  41. jf13 says:

    I remain highly skeptical of thinking that an mgtow strategy would attract a woman. I think and/or feel that it is the same as thinking that being a wghow cat lady will bring the boyz running to her door. The exact opposite is true; in fact I think becoming a cat lady is yet another of women’s strategies to deflect men’s interest.

    On the other hand, maybe I’m just projecting the negative attraction of wghow onto mgtow. As the OP remarked, the comcept of spinsters doesn’t generalize to bachelors.

    Like

  42. jf13 says:

    In 2008 in Japan, 47% of young women said they were totally uninterested or even averse to sex and saw themselves as never having any romantic relationship in their whole lives, which did not make any news headlines. And 17% of young men said the same thing, which lead to worldwide media panic about herbivores.

    Like

  43. Yoda says:

    And 17% of young men said the same thing, which lead to worldwide media panic about herbivores.

    Related to next post this is.

    Like

  44. Yoda says:

    someone breaks into a male soldier’s home and, say, chops off his leg, shoots him up

    Expendable men are.

    Like

  45. Yoda says:

    in Japan, 47% of young women said they were totally uninterested or even averse to sex

    Incentives to men this provides not.

    Like

  46. SFC Ton says:

    That dude wasn’t shot in the back over child support

    He was shot in the back for resisting arrest

    When a man has a gun on you, you comply or kill him. Running gets you shot in the back, and that keeps you out of Valhalla

    Anything else I have to say…. well this is Spwany’s place so I’ll refrain.

    They didn’t ask about the engagement because they are dudes ie don’t give a damn and not all that into drama/ inserting themselves into other folks affairs. I’m fond enough of Bloom but the expectation folks would ask is pure chick logic.

    Spot on about finding a bad women vs not finding a “good” one

    Like

  47. theasdgamer says:

    Most chicks are.stoned on their own vagina fumes and divorced from reality on most topics

    Field report on your observation

    Context: Outside a dance studio with a woman in my social circle. I was isolated at around midnight (an hour after the dance party ended) in her car with a 64 yo broad (trim, good skin and skeletal facial structure, very few wrinkles–bangable). She was chatty and obviously wanted my attention. She didn’t want any kino–even a hand on her shoulder. Nor a kiss. Why would a woman that age play hard to get? If a woman wants to be isolated with a man, she obviously wants to kiss him (maybe subconsciously). Bear in mind that 20-somethings typically flirt aggressively with me at least once a night. Cat lady is unaware of her competition.

    From our convo I determined that she is a bit cray-cray. She dumped someone she said is a good man just because of her temporary feewings. Has been alone for the last 10 years. Heavily into New Age crap. Divorced from reality. I know another who is menopausal and similarly into New Age crap. Not boring, tho, and has a sex drive.

    There are some cat ladies out there who are waaaay too impressed with their dilapidated plumbing and are oblivious to the vacancy of their sex drive. They still want men’s attention, tho.

    Why did I want to be isolated with this broad? Practice: convo, flirting, & escalation

    No attention for cat ladies other than for practice unless they do the work.

    One post-menopausal woman I know still has a high sex drive and is bangable, so I don’t write off all of them. The more I’m around younger women, the less attention I pay to older women, tho.

    Like

  48. Yoda says:

    I maintain the real drive behind cat ladies revolve around an unrealistic sense of self system/ SMP value

    Comes from where this sense does?

    Like

  49. Cill says:

    jf13 ” in order to have a grandson”

    I will never marry or have children.

    On my mother’s side my ancestry is easily traceable all the way back to 1066, and I’ll be the first to be childless. It’s a weirdly dislocating feeling.

    Liked by 1 person

  50. Tarnished says:

    Cat lady? Nah…too easy. They are a dime a dozen.

    Can one be a “cat lady” if one is running a business and traveling in one’s midlife-golden years? That’s what I aspire to…maybe have a fennec. They are friendlier and more social than cats:

    Honestly though, this is the only part I disagree with:
    “Primarily because it is obvious that these women have failed with respect to their prime directive.”

    Telling anyone…man, woman, intersex…that they have failed at life because they haven’t reproduced is wrong. It boils down the experience of human existence to simply the spread of genes. While this is the overall “goal” of a species wholesale, it is not the goal of every individual.

    Like

  51. Yoda says:

    Can one be a “cat lady” if one is running a business and traveling in one’s midlife-golden years?

    Yes one can.
    Mostly self sufficient cats are.

    Like

  52. Tarnished says:

    Cill,

    “It’s a weirdly dislocating feeling.”

    Sorry to hear that, my friend. For myself, it’s the same, except I can only feel elated.

    Hmm. Maybe that’s too strong a term…Perhaps “relieved” would be better. I don’t have faith in marriage at all (for various reasons) and wouldn’t want to bring a child into this world alone. Unfair to both of us in the end.

    I’m simply grateful that I see how things are, and can make decisions for myself based on reality instead of feewings.

    Liked by 1 person

  53. Tarnished says:

    “Yes one can.”

    Even when sans felidae? 😉

    Like

  54. @ ton yes perhaps “girl thinking” to believe men would think about such things. And I am glad of that! I don’t want them to ask.

    Like

  55. Cill says:

    “On my mother’s side my ancestry is easily traceable”

    I meant, if one includes siblings of ancestors.

    None were childless.

    Like

  56. theasdgamer says:

    @ Bloom

    Does my comment about cat ladies make sense to you and have you seen similar things in cat ladies?

    Like

  57. theasdgamer says:

    Where have all the good women gone? lol

    Like

  58. theasdgamer says:

    “reality instead of feewings.”

    A Darwinist interpretation is that you are voting against your own genes. Self-selecting, as it were.

    Like

  59. Yoda says:

    my ancestry is easily traceable all the way back to 1066

    How far back can Moe trace his wonder I do.

    Like

  60. Yoda says:

    he was 17

    Raped he was?
    Consent form he did sign?

    Like

  61. jf13 says:

    Moe is also the particularly nonreproductive hebephilic fetish for stylized cartoon representations of tween girls.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moe_(slang)

    Like

  62. jf13 says:

    @tasdg, re: cray cray

    My interpretation of her behavior is that she still feels “young” meaning entitled to fun-fun-fun (as in the link in the post) provided by a man or hopefully men. “We can have a lot of fun without sex, can’t we? We can pretend fight, and I can throw you some catnip, and you can play hide-and-seek, and …”

    I guess everyone knows that real cat ladies are craycray is because of brain parasites. Wouldn’t it be great if being around a man made a brain parasite that caused a woman to treat the man right?

    Like

  63. Cill says:

    “you are voting against your own genes. Self-selecting, as it were.”
    Extreme trauma in one’s past can produce self non-selection.
    In the case of Tarn, her rejection of self propagation is nature’s loss.

    Liked by 3 people

  64. Cill says:

    … and I believe the same applies to me (though I say it myself and shouldn’t).

    Liked by 1 person

  65. theasdgamer says:

    Nature says that better genes cope with extreme trauma in one’s past. Nature doesn’t care about “should” or “shouldn’t”.

    Liked by 2 people

  66. Cill says:

    … and M, a superb specimen, instinctively feels the same about me. Nature’s loss.
    (excuse my swollen head)

    Liked by 2 people

  67. Tarnished says:

    Asdgamer,

    “A Darwinist interpretation is that you are voting against your own genes. Self-selecting, as it were.”

    Au contraire. I believe that my genes are quite good. I am very healthy, naturally strong, have a high IQ, am capable of much empathy and compassion, have no major physical/mental defects that I know of, am pleasantly featured/bodied…I think I’d also make a fantastic mother, as I’m very nurturing and enjoy caring for others.

    Which is why when I was younger I attempted to donate my eggs so that another family might make use of them. I contacted 6 different locations, filled out the paperwork, even did the preliminary blood tests for 2 of them. But each one declined me, some gave no reason at all but 3 said “We aren’t accepting eggs from Caucasian women at this time.”

    So, I tried to pass on my genes in a way acceptable to me. It didn’t happen. Oh well.

    P.S.-I’m unsure if Darwin himself said anything about individual preferences in regards to reproduction…it’s been a few years since I read any of his papers or books.

    Liked by 1 person

  68. Cill says:

    “Nature doesn’t care about “should” or “shouldn’t”
    Nevertheless it remains nature’s loss.
    Maybe nature should not have evolved the power of choice.
    Without it there would be no MGTOW.

    Like

  69. Liz says:

    If you’re seriously considering donating eggs, you might want to look into that again, Tarn. Demand is probably cyclical.

    Back in college we looked into my husband donating sperm. He had the right IQ and everything…But they had enough black haired, black eyed people.

    Like

  70. theasdgamer says:

    Nature is a brutal b1tch. She says that genes that are superior survive and reproduce. She doesn’t care about our own personal likes and dislikes.

    Unless you are skeptical about Natural Selection, I see no way out of the obvious implications.

    Like

  71. Cill says:

    … hence my sense of dislocation.

    The End

    Like

  72. theasdgamer says:

    @ Liz

    Back in college we looked into my husband donating sperm.

    Your voyeurism is showing…again. ;-]]

    Like

  73. Cill says:

    Nature “doesn’t care about our own personal likes and dislikes”
    In us, nature has evolved a conundrum.
    The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that the universe is comprehensible to us.

    Like

  74. Cill says:

    I repeat: nature is the loser in these cases.

    Like

  75. theasdgamer says:

    Cill, I understand your Romanticism, but Nature speaks more definitely than we do.

    Like

  76. theasdgamer says:

    *definitively

    Like

  77. Cill says:

    “Romanticism”?
    HAHAHAHAHA!
    Bloody that’s funny.

    Like

  78. theasdgamer says:

    I think that the ability/desire to reproduce is more valuable than any other feature (height, strenghth, beauty) as far as Nature is concerned.

    Liked by 2 people

  79. Cill says:

    “Nature speaks more definitely definitively than we do”
    A definitive statement by YOU Nature, asd 😄
    lol

    Liked by 2 people

  80. Cill says:

    “I think that the ability/desire to reproduce is more valuable than any other feature (height, strenghth, beauty) as far as Nature is concerned.”
    Good point.
    Thus the extinction of species.

    Like

  81. Cill says:

    If extinction were truly random, we’d have a much richer evolutionary history, because at least some representatives of all living things would make it to the present. But because extinction tends to be clumped around certain lineages, when extinction occurs we lose whole groups of species.

    Liked by 1 person

  82. Cill says:

    Hey I’m joining in a threading game with you here asd 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  83. Cill says:

    asd you’re good. Seriously, I’ve learned a lot from you on this blog.

    Like

  84. theasdgamer says:

    @ Cill

    Kind of you to say so. I’m not particularly a fan of natural selection–was playing Devil’s Advocate.

    Like

  85. Tarnished says:

    Asdgamer,

    I somewhat agree with your comment at 7:16…but regardless of whether or not this is true, Nature has nothing to do with my (or Cill’s or Spawny’s?) decision to not procreate. My decision is almost entirely the “fault” of Nurture. I can’t force myself to believe in marriage, committed relationships, or make myself unafraid of pregnancy. It’d be like asking an atheist to “just believe” in the Gods…Not gonna happen unless you give incredibly good evidence. If anything, reading the manosphere has solidified my beliefs.

    I think I’m fertile (honestly don’t know for sure), I certainly have a sex drive, and I get along fabulously with children, especially in the 3-12 year old range. A part of me does wonder what it’d have been like to have a family…loving househusband, 1 or 2 kids, a clean home and hot meal to come home to everyday. But then again, I also had fantasies about being an archeologist or AI programmer. Those are likewise “different paths” that I glanced down but didn’t take.

    Am I worse for not choosing them? Maybe.
    Do I like the path I’m currently on? Yes.
    If I was raised differently, *would* I have picked one of those other options? Almost certainly.

    But I wasn’t.
    And I didn’t.
    And that too, was my choice. 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  86. Cill says:

    “I’m not particularly a fan of natural selection”
    Me neither. But I’m stuck with it.
    Confound it and drat.

    Liked by 1 person

  87. theasdgamer says:

    Natural selection (“survival of the fittest”) is a tautologous concept. Whatever is left, by definition, is more fit. How do you measure fitness before testing for it?

    Liked by 2 people

  88. Tarnished says:

    “But I’m stuck with it.”

    *sigh*
    Aren’t we all…

    Like

  89. Tarnished says:

    “How do you measure fitness before testing for it?”

    You don’t, unless you count the fact your lineage has created you a “passing grade” for said test.

    Liked by 1 person

  90. Cill says:

    “Natural selection (“survival of the fittest”) is a tautologous concept. Whatever is left, by definition, is more fit. How do you measure fitness before testing for it?”

    My point in a nutshell.

    Threading games are fun.
    We start off not disagreeing in fact and end up agreeing in words. Coolness! 🙂

    Like

  91. Cill says:

    Tarn 7:43 pm
    We might count our lineage, Tarn, but Nature does not. Nature just *IS*
    If Nature thinks at all, it does so with its small head.

    Liked by 1 person

  92. Cill says:

    … unless we count ourselves to be a part of Nature, in which case the words of Einstein that I quoted above do very much apply…

    Confound it and drat.

    Liked by 1 person

  93. jf13 says:

    re: “I think that the ability/desire to reproduce is more valuable than any other feature (height, strenghth, beauty) as far as Nature is concerned.”

    True. One would like to say “survival of the reproducingest”, but it’s not quite so easy as “they that have the most kids win”. The fundamentally selected phenotype of any species MUST be reproductive; the fundamental thing to be inheritedby offspring MUST be this ability/drive to have offspring. Hence a far better criteria is “they that have the most grandkids win”.

    Liked by 1 person

  94. jf13 says:

    It is odd how decorrelated is reproductive ability and reproductive desire in modern humans. When did that start?

    Liked by 1 person

  95. Tarnished says:

    Precisely.

    Nature simply is.
    It’s not good or bad or pure or fallen or cruel or generous or any of the other traits most will attempt to subscribe to it. Nature exists. That’s all there is to it.

    Goals as we define them are only for sentient/psuedosentient beings. Nature has no goal other than what we try to give it via artificial selection.

    Liked by 1 person

  96. Tarnished says:

    “When did that start?”

    When sex became really, really fun. 😀

    Liked by 2 people

  97. jf13 says:

    btw certainly not “she that has the most cats wins”

    Liked by 1 person

  98. jf13 says:

    re: fun

    That long ago, eh? btw I include baby rabies (and grandbaby rabies) as part of reproductive desire. A whole lot of young women’s, *especially* the most drippingly fertile young women, dreams are full of babies not men.

    Liked by 1 person

  99. jf13 says:

    Many other species have extremely obvious fun in sex, the most well known being human-associated familiar large mammals. I think for the most part in those species, basically aside from nonhuman perverts of which there are not a few numerically but not a high percentage, the requisite sexual health of an individual causes extremely high correlations between the ability to reproduce and the desire to reproduce. Certainly in plenty of other species, especially those where getting there is hard like having to kill of rivals, sex does not seem like fun but work.

    Like

  100. Cill says:

    I used to assume that some species of dinosaur might have last for 50+ million years. Actually, no individual species lasted more than a few million.

    Had it been otherwise we would not be here and their extinction would not have occurred because dinosaurs would have long since taken their silver seed to new homes in the sky.

    (Romanticism much)

    Like

  101. Liz says:

    It would be a lot nicer if people could lay eggs.

    Liked by 3 people

  102. Moehau Man says:

    “How far back can Moe trace his [ancestry] wonder I do.”

    Yes well, young Yoda, I trace it back exactly 40,000 years. It’s pretty much pure fog beyond that. As Mrs Moehau Man (my recollective old mum) once said, “There comes a point at which the mists of time become impenetrable even to the most fog-lit of eyes. “

    Like

  103. Tarnished says:

    Ohhhh. Humanoid oviparity? I could get on board with that…I wonder if we’d also be parthenogenic like turkeys are?

    Liked by 1 person

  104. Moehau Man says:

    Down Under, we have mammals that lay eggs.

    Liked by 2 people

  105. Cill says:

    JF “Many other species have extremely obvious fun in sex”
    Dolphins sure do. They’ll fiddle with each other for hours. And when one gets sick of it the others will force it to keep going.

    Liked by 1 person

  106. Yoda says:

    Mrs Moehau Man

    Sexist this is.

    Liked by 1 person

  107. Tarnished says:

    You know what animal has been seen self-diddling that one wouldn’t expect?

    Galapagos tortoises. Having “sex” with holes in their concrete zoo homes.
    True story. 😕

    Like

  108. jf13 says:

    re: oviparity

    As a male mammal I cannot be a big fan of external fertilization.

    re: turkey parthenogenesis

    In most species with macrolecithal ova, the necessity of structural development (shell, membrane, leftover blood vessels, etc) means that occasionally some preembryonic structures jump the gun and (erroneouslyz) begin developing before fertilization. Almost always these parthenogenic failure processes cause termination of egg formation.

    Some mutant turkeys that exhibited a little bit extra parthenogenicity were bred for many generations, until significant percentages developed into full embryos, and later fully grown. Of necessity, since female turkeys are heterogametic, all of the parthenogenic birds were male, and hence not themselves capable of parthenogenisis.

    Liked by 2 people

  109. jf13 says:

    I’m not entirely sure why, but I think I have seen more species of females diddling than males. It could just be timing.

    Like

  110. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Upthread, Jf13 mentioned his daughter, who has effectively taken herself out of the game. It got me yo thinking about the difference in demand from both sides of the sexual marketplace and begged the question, how deep does this go? At a guess, pretty deep.
    Also mentioned was the Japanese study wherein 45% of women and 17% professed to have no interest in sex. I had heard 47 and 28%, respectively. Japan was deeply concerned about the 17% lack of interest from men. That may have been misconstrued. It’s that two thirds of young Japanese men are self identifying as herbivores.

    Like

  111. Padawan says:

    Tortoises Having Sex with *Concrete* Holes (by Padawan, Blog Laureate 2014 – ?)
    Tarn, ‘Galapagos tortoises. Having “sex” with holes in their concrete zoo homes.’

    Discriminating they are.
    Holes they select.
    MmmmH?

    Liked by 1 person

  112. Liz says:

    Parthenogenesis would be pretty wild. Actually, with ovarian cancer the cells start to generate ‘people parts’…not whole people, obviously, but maybe an eyeball and some teeth, stuff like that. Very very icky stuff…(hydatidiform moles are like that, too, from my understanding…but I think those require fertilization, by contrast).

    Like

  113. SFC Ton says:

    The whole point of biological beings is to reproduce itself. We are (in theory) smarter then critters to ensure our continuation. That is nature’s goal.

    Liked by 1 person

  114. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Cill,
    On another thread, that went over four hundred comments long, you asked me to clarify. I couldn’t make heads or tails of it myself. My natural tendency to make typos is aggrivated when theads get long and the combox starts gtting “twitchy”.

    Liked by 1 person

  115. jf13 says:

    Funny how in a cat-lady thread we started discussing extra-species sex and mutants an stuff.

    Liked by 2 people

  116. jf13 says:

    re: holes

    “Anything that moves” is a meme usually referring to skirt-chasers with ultra low standards. I wonder if for tortoises the corresponding idea would be “anything that doesn’t move”, or did they discriminateamongst the more attractive holes?

    Liked by 1 person

  117. Liz says:

    “As a male mammal I cannot be a big fan of external fertilization.”

    But think of the advantages! Your sweety would never have stretch marks or get stretched out down…er, there. I think of my poor great grandmother with 13 kids. I’ll bet she was like a slip-n-slide. Conversations at the dinner table must’ve been something like:
    “You’re going out tonight!”

    Liked by 1 person

  118. Cill says:

    ‘roos got it right. Get fertilized inside and grow the joey in a pouch. If the pouch gets loose, give it a bit of the old nip and tuck for variety. 😉

    Liked by 3 people

  119. Cill says:

    See we got it all sussed out down under.

    Liked by 4 people

  120. Yoda says:

    Galapagos tortoises. Having “sex” with holes in their concrete zoo homes.

    Tortoises have hands not.

    Liked by 1 person

  121. jf13 says:

    re: ‘roos got it right

    This. And pouch doubles as sandwich-carrier.

    Liked by 2 people

  122. Cill says:

    Liz I’m not going to Like you at 9:48 pm. I can’t.
    Would you not miss the fun yourself? 😛

    Liked by 1 person

  123. Tarnished says:

    “I wonder if for tortoises the corresponding idea would be “anything that doesn’t move”, or did they discriminateamongst the more attractive holes?”

    The zookeeper assumed it was because he was alone for so long. Any port in a storm sort of deal. Feel very badly for the old shellback, really. 😦

    “I’m not entirely sure why, but I think I have seen more species of females diddling than males.”

    In mammals, like my dogs/cats/rabbits/rats etc, this is true in my observations as well.
    In my birds, it’s the opposite though.
    Curious…

    “As a male mammal I cannot be a big fan of external fertilization.”

    As a female mammal, I obviously second this!
    But if we were a naturally egg laying species and only had cloaca anyway, I don’t think you’d mind. We couldn’t miss having external genitals if we never had them to begin with, right?

    Like

  124. jf13 says:

    Off topic.
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3030597/How-long-distance-running-makes-men-attractive-run-endurance-races-dates-higher-sex-drive.html

    Despite what women “ought” to prefer, the actual N of ectomorphic men runners, the actual N of intelligent men, the actual N of generous men, is lower than beefy stupid jerks.

    Liked by 1 person

  125. jf13 says:

    re: cloaca

    Of all the body mods I might consent to, getting a cloaca (*instead*, not in *addition*) would not make it even on the bottom of the list.

    Cat whiskers might be tops, though.

    Liked by 1 person

  126. Tarnished says:

    “See we got it all sussed out down under.”

    Cill is very punny today, I see. 😉
    And no, Liz wouldn’t miss out at 9:48. Birds of both sexes still, er, have solitary funtimes when they want.
    Or at least, the cockatiels, parakeets, finches, and lovebirds I’ve known do.

    Liked by 1 person

  127. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Liz,
    Birth for any other species results in a much more capable infant in minimal time. Most can walk within moments of birth. I don’t think that we, as a species, have fully developed evolutionally. I have also heard it said that we are orn prematurely because our heads are so big.

    Liked by 2 people

  128. Cill says:

    “We couldn’t miss having external genitals if we never had them to begin with, right?”
    Hell I would! I can’t dog an egg! I can’t mish it either! And how’s sumo going to get it on!

    Liked by 2 people

  129. Tarnished says:

    I’d want wings.
    Not feathery, fluffy bird ones. I want huge, badass, furry bat ones.

    Failing that, I’d go for a prehensile tail or retractable claws.

    Liked by 1 person

  130. Cill says:

    I can see my N plummeting through the floor, with some of these proposals.

    Like

  131. Liz says:

    “Despite what women “ought” to prefer, the actual N of ectomorphic men runners, the actual N of intelligent men, the actual N of generous men, is lower than beefy stupid jerks.”

    You’re kind of a chap of one idea, aren’t you? N count means very little, in the broad scene of things (pun intended). A guy who can pull strange ass every night doesn’t necessarily choose to pull strange ass. The more intelligent he is, the less strange he’s likely to choose to get. Idiots have unprotected sex in ZImbabwe.

    Liked by 2 people

  132. jf13 says:

    re: dogs/cats/rabbits/rats etc

    Yep, plus mares/sows/nanny goats/doe deer etc. Practically anything that goes into heat

    Come to think of it, I guess seeing the males doing similar to the females didn’t count to me when it wasn’t to completion for the males.

    Like

  133. Liz says:

    “I’d go for a prehensile tail or retractable claws.”

    I can tell you….having a pointy tail and retractable claws rocks, Tarn! It truly rocks!

    Like

  134. SFC Ton says:

    A half marathon is not particularly long run

    Like

  135. SFC Ton says:

    A half marathon is not particularly long run

    Like

  136. Cill says:

    Tarn I’d choose wings like a Southern Shearwater. They can fly half way around the world and fly under water like penguins. My fav of all non-parrot birds.

    Like

  137. SFC Ton says:

    Why should women prefer smart men? That reeks of beta trying to redefine alpha

    If intelligence was especially useful for survival and reproduction then more women would have selected for it and IQ would be higher. Survival and success normally improves when a variety of attributes are above average and balanced

    Like

  138. jf13 says:

    re: “N count means very little”

    I sometimes try to comfort myself with that rationalization.

    re: “The more intelligent he is, the less strange he’s likely to choose to get.”

    All women think this should be true. But it’s not. You may not recall the HalfSigma site, but he showed that the more intelligent the man the riskier the sex he had to pay for since women were less willing to give it to him. He gets LESS choice.
    http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2007/04/intercourse-and-intelligence.php

    Even when controlling for facial attractiveness and athletecism and religious beliefs and everything, the more intelligent the man the fewer (hetero) partners he gets and the lower the frequency per partner, despite him NOT wanting less. The general consensus explanation for this fact, to which I have contributed my share, is that his peer group females are also smarter than the average female, and smarter females DO have significantly lower sex drives (in general).

    Like

  139. SFC Ton says:

    I have yet to meet a woman I consider particularly smart.

    Like

  140. jf13 says:

    “Huh! If that were true, then all the nerd guys ought to be hitting up the ghettos, slumming for chicks!”

    Women cannot comprehend that men get turned down, and that nerd men always get turned tdown the most.

    Like

  141. theasdgamer says:

    It would be a lot nicer if people could lay eggs.

    BTDT Thassa joke son, I say, I say….

    Like

  142. theasdgamer says:

    My mum turned into a cat lady. She turned all of her attention on her sons and hardly ever dated. Only ever had one cat at a time and only when her boys lived at home.

    Reminds me of a lady I know. Turns all of her attention on her kids. Poor things.

    Like

  143. jf13 says:

    Donals’ PSALM vectors of attraction are, every single one, proxies for being able to get away with *sexual* violence. In that sense too, intelligence *ought* to help a man know how to get away with it and therefore *ought* to be attractive, but apparently being intelligent is far too highly correlated with either morality or rationality or whatever keeping him from it.

    Maybe it is strictly intelligence that requires psychopathy in the dark triad to be attractive; certainly the imbecilic drooling psychopaths don’t have fan club girls.

    Like

  144. theasdgamer says:

    Re proposed meetup:

    I’d ride, providing…

    1) that the women bring homemade duds for the dudes to wear with cool stuff on them. Taintright for the men to provide all the benefits.

    2) that the women buy my drinks when we go clubbing in exchange for dance lessons. That would still be a net plus for the women. I don’t drink much when I’m dancing.

    Like

  145. Cill says:

    Alana Liked you at 9:48 pm Liz but I won’t! Only a woman could Like you there! A pouff wouldn’t Like you either. Not even Lezzos, as there’d be no sense in them strapping on the plastic any more. Bathtub octopuses would be unemployed, as would one-winged houseflies – the list goes on and on…

    Liked by 2 people

  146. theasdgamer says:

    @ jf13

    smarter females DO have significantly lower sex drives (in general).

    I finally get the memo…. P

    Like

  147. theasdgamer says:

    @ liz

    The more intelligent he is, the less strange he’s likely to choose to get.

    I don’t think that it’s a question of his choice. An intelligent man would certainly know about condoms.

    Like

  148. SFC Ton says:

    Everything in the SMP is a proxy for violence

    Dudes slum it all.the time which is why even landwhales have babies and fuck buddies…. hell they even get husbands

    Like

  149. SFC Ton says:

    Everything in the SMP is a proxy for violence

    Dudes slum it all.the time which is why even landwhales have babies and fuck buddies…. hell they even get husbands

    Like

  150. Cill says:

    A chap with a high IQ can always act dumb. The brighter he is, the dumber he can act.
    Duh

    Liked by 2 people

  151. jf13 says:

    re: women should prefer smarter men

    Well, they should. Objectively. In the same way, women should prefer nicer men. It’s simply sensible. But for the *same* objective sensible reasons, second marriages ought to have lower divorce rates than first marriages. But they don’t. Because people are not as objective and sensible as they should be.

    Like

  152. theasdgamer says:

    After getting the memo, I’m looking for blondes, full stop.

    Like

  153. jf13 says:

    re: “Dudes slum it all.the time”

    Sure, but ghetto mamas aren’t salivating over the *sexiness* of white dude with pocket protector looking for action.

    Like

  154. jf13 says:

    re: acting dumb

    Only if you act dumb enough to be irrationally violent. Otherwise, acting psychopath is probably more productive.

    Like

  155. Cill says:

    Where does the Master of Chaos stand with all of this? What affect does MSGL have on N?

    Liked by 1 person

  156. Liz says:

    Ton: “If intelligence was especially useful for survival and reproduction then more women would have selected for it and IQ would be higher. Survival and success normally improves when a variety of attributes are above average and balanced

    Of course it’s true that balance is best but intelligence is not going to be a liability (unless it’s so off the charts it causes social awkwardness and/or lunacy, or something).
    No woman (or a very rare one) is going to meet Bastiat and say, “You know that guy sure has it all…if only he wasn’t so smart he’d really do it for me…”

    Liked by 1 person

  157. jf13 says:

    re: small talk

    Small talk per se is easy; at least for extraverts. You’d be surprised how lousy at it most women are. I think in the same way that most advice is written for nice guys on why to act more bad, most advice is written for introverts on why to act more extraverted. But I contend that being extraverted doesn’t work, in the sense of eliciting attraction from women, while being bad does work.

    Like

  158. jf13 says:

    I think that cat ladies are probably most susceptible to tomcatting: act furtive but definite in nefarious intentions “we don’t want to get caught”. Given her necessarily low but variable sex drive, she won’t mind that you usually visit other cat houses but she will you want to come when she yowls, and furtiveness adds to the fun when she just wants fun.

    Like

  159. jf13 says:

    120 IQ is hardly off the charts.

    Like

  160. SFC Ton says:

    But that is because BB is the masculine version of unicorn. In like every possible way.

    No most smart dudes are low risk dudes which reduces survival chances and sexiness

    Like

  161. SFC Ton says:

    Also when I talk about survival I am not talking theory or “survival” in the urban UMC world but actuall life on the line no shit situation

    Like

  162. jf13 says:

    re: risk

    Wise men take fewer unnecessary risks, I think by definition. And you don’t see a whole lot of womynz vying for wise men’s sperm, either. It isn’t risk, but stupid riskyness, that is attractive.

    There was never much interest by women in the so-called “genius sperm banks”. Despite practically giving the stuff away to any married woman, almost all women who looked into it chose “normal” donors instead.

    Like

  163. Liz says:

    You’re probably right about the low risk factor, Ton. I hadn’t thought of that. And it makes sense…women are attracted to men who do riskier stuff. It increases testosterone level too.

    Like

  164. jf13 says:

    re: “actuall life on the line no shit situation”

    Of which there is a far greater variety open to intelligent men.
    The reactor is about to go critical …
    The loose screw penetrated a finger-sized hole in the 2 mm outer skin and the MultiLayer Insulation …
    Millions of people will starve if the rebels control the oilfields …

    Liked by 1 person

  165. SFC Ton says:

    Well way back in the day when I was tier one, they had us pretty well broken down. Above average intelligence but not to far above was the rule without e exception

    Intelligence has other limiting factors, like slow to make decisions in high risk/ chaotic situations, more so when there is little intell to base a decision o

    Liked by 1 person

  166. jf13 says:

    To repeat: without being exposed to testosterone levels or attractiveness in person, women chose NOT to reproduce with highly intelligent men’s sperm.

    Like

  167. SFC Ton says:

    Ahhh sorry JF…. not so much

    Like

  168. jf13 says:

    Intelligence is highly correlated with decision speed. The Spanish word for intelligence means “ready”. Women and stupider men like to pretend that intelligent men must have some OTHER problems.

    Like

  169. Cill says:

    “120 IQ is hardly off the charts”
    JF, Where does the 120 come from?

    Liked by 1 person

  170. jf13 says:

    To repeat: almost all real intelligence tests include situation-solving SPEED as a main factor. Already. You are being timed. On the mark.

    Like

  171. jf13 says:

    The 120 was in the HalfSigma article partially quoted in the GeneExpression link.

    Like

  172. jf13 says:

    One related idiomatic word for particularly clever is “swift”. “Slow” means stupid.

    Liked by 1 person

  173. Cill says:

    In my experience, most women are more attracted to me when I come across as fairly dumb. It’s one of the first things a guy learns, if he’s got any brains !?

    Liked by 1 person

  174. jf13 says:

    It’s entirely probable that a world overpopulated by geniuses would have gotten that way by being overpopulated by evil geniuses subverting the female sexual strategy of maximizing the number of unreproductive males.

    Like

  175. Liz says:

    Per speed and intelligence
    Is that speed measured in an actual survival situation making risky choices, or speed in a no threat lab environment solving a puzzle or something?

    Liked by 1 person

  176. jf13 says:

    “It’s one of the first things a guy learns, if” women are already attracted in the first place.

    Like

  177. SFC Ton says:

    Yea NOw whatever gets you through the night

    Like

  178. jf13 says:

    re: actual survival situation making risky choices

    This. You would not believe how realistic is the training/testing for submarine captain, for example.

    Like

  179. SFC Ton says:

    But they have
    Time
    And intell

    Like

  180. jf13 says:

    On women’s magazine headlines:
    Bad boys are the secretly good ones!
    Slow guys are the secretly quick ones!

    Like

  181. theasdgamer says:

    @ To

    Intelligence has other limiting factors, like slow to make decisions in high risk/ chaotic situations, more so when there is little intell to base a decision

    Cosign when pointy heads get analysis paralysis. I’ve always been of the combat-shooting style of decision making in combat/chaotic situations. My first guess is usually pretty close. Maybe it’s my autistic brain thingie that is used for social decision making in non-autists. Kind of an outcome-probability computer.

    Like

  182. Liz says:

    “This. You would not believe how realistic is the training/testing for submarine captain, for example.”

    That would be a very very atypical type of IQ test for a very very atypical and exceptional candidate. Fighter pilots are similar they have special types of aptitude tests and usually have very high intelligence AND are willing to engage in risky activity (and super-high level coordination and so forth). But that’s a very unusual personality profile.

    Like

  183. Liz says:

    This conversation has been pretty interesting to me because I’d always thought it was my husband’s high IQ that did it for me, but I guess it also had something to do with his penchant for risky activity (that actually piss me off pretty often, even before we were married he went down a very steep ‘blind’ hill on rollerblades and could have hit by a car. And he didn’t stop just once, he did it several times…the whole time I was wondering how someone so smart could be so dumb. ANd then on our honeymoon he almost busted his neck in Maui on a big wave)
    But, I do like warrior types. A lot. I’ve never claimed to be a unicorn or different from other women. I just post my observations as honestly as I can, and think about stuff like this a lot.

    Like

  184. SFC Ton says:

    lol.most high IQ people are one trick ponies meaning IQ is all they have and elevate intelligence above its station

    Liked by 1 person

  185. Liz says:

    “One related idiomatic word for particularly clever is “swift”. “Slow” means stupid.”

    That’s true..but the idiom is related (primarily) to speech. Oscar Wilde was incredibly quick witted, but I dont’ think that reflect much on how he would behave in a dangerous situation. I mentioned “fighting the Nellis war” on an earlier thread. It’s a lot different when people are actually shooting at you. And I think it’s impossible to know what one would do in said situation unless and until we encounter something like that (however real the scenarios seem, everyone knows they aren’t actually real). Ton is probably the only one here who knows.

    Liked by 1 person

  186. You guys are not helping…

    So if I am getting this, the guys who would be able to love me I will never be attracted to but the ones I am attracted to will never love me? And for men too, the ones you are attracted to won’t love you but the ones who would you are not attracted to? Wtf is the point? For anyone then? If the game is rigged? I refuse to accept anecdotal evidence that if it hasn’t worked in this case or that, it therefore cannot work and does not exist.

    Liked by 2 people

  187. Pffffft — go on now — ya’ll get… (Comes flying out the door onto the porch swinging a broom, practicing her crazy cat lady act)

    Liked by 1 person

  188. Cill says:

    Yes to the preceding comments. I have learned from this discussion (Ton etc). I started off my latest post with Bad Boy and strength and now these other characteristics are every bit as important: masculinity, speed of reaction in dangerous situations, and fearlessness.

    I react to threats instantly and ruthlessly, and I think people can sense this from the way I comport myself. My mum says “Cill was born without the fear gene.” Other people tell me I take great risks but to me they are calculated risks that I know I can beat. In my professional work I specialized in high physical risk projects. My family never liked it whenever I went off to some dangerous part of the world. They are much happier now that I no longer do that sort of work.

    Liked by 1 person

  189. Farm Boy says:

    New post is up

    Liked by 1 person

  190. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Bloom, I am with you!

    Jf13, you are being a real wet blanket. If ever you get an avatar, consider that character from Lil’Abner who always had a raincloud over his head.

    Yoda at 10:50pm,
    Your link mentioned Gloria Steinem and some other feminist going to North Korea? They can stay there for all I care.
    Feminists have harbor so much hate for white American Christian straight men that it makes Noth Korea look godd???

    At least, Jane Fonda apologized for being taken in by North Vietnam.

    Liked by 2 people

  191. SFC Ton says:

    LOL w/ Bloom. I do not do Romantic love so the answer to your question is yes, you are correct

    I missed Cill saying he plays dumb. This is gold. Clever girls pick up you are holding something back and love it. I have dated a fair number of doctors, lawyers and what not. Never would have closed the deal if I was more upfront about my reckoning abilities. This over comes my lack of formal schooling. It’s playful and some what mysterious…. ie chick crack.

    Most things can be trained Liz. Now, now I am the dude with 27 years of training and combat time. 27 years ago I was a rookie and in the thick of the drug war. Never under estimate the training. Where the topic comes in is when you are calling the shots or when shit goes really bad. From what I understand the higher IQ dudes get bogged down in what ifs and waiting for more intell. They don’t make that micro second decision. Which isn’t necessarily the worse thing when your higher up the food chain, but gets folks killed when you are actually pulling the trigger or 1st line leadership

    Liked by 1 person

  192. Tarnished says:

    Bloom @ 2:11

    *shrug*
    You could do as I’m doing, and just accept that while what jf13 is talking about is true for some people it is not true for everyone. I’m attracted to high intelligence, a bit of chub rather than muscles, prefer guys who are my height or shorter (it’s the 1 thing I’d change about my FwB…he’s “too” tall), witty banter over dumb say-nothings, and low risk takers.

    According to much of the manosphere, and some of our companions here that is either a lie or just purely nonsensical. Whatever. It is what it is, and generalizations only go so far before they break down at the individual level.

    NAWALT and NAMALT, baby.

    Liked by 2 people

  193. Liz says:

    “So if I am getting this, the guys who would be able to love me I will never be attracted to but the ones I am attracted to will never love me? And for men too, the ones you are attracted to won’t love you but the ones who would you are not attracted to? Wtf is the point?”

    I don’t believe that, Bloom.

    Liked by 2 people

  194. Sumo says:

    From what I understand the higher IQ dudes get bogged down in what ifs and waiting for more intell. They don’t make that micro second decision.

    I think that has less to do with “high intelligence” than it does with “lack of balls”. While I’m not Stephen Hawking-level smart, I’ve got a couple of neurons firing fairly consistently (I know, I know – hard to believe), and I’ve never had any trouble making split second decisions and/or acting when I needed to.

    Liked by 4 people

  195. Liz says:

    Obviously, case and point, my relationship isn’t that way. My husband loves me, and I love him, and we’re very attracted to each other.

    Liked by 3 people

  196. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    As for what Bloom referred to, it seems every respectable quality a man can have puts women off for some mysterious reason.
    I am getting more than a little tired of hearing it.

    Liked by 2 people

  197. Tarnished says:

    Likewise, FuzWuz.
    It’s definitely factual for some men/women/relationships. After all, every one of us has seen them in action, or even been a part of one, and the manosphere wouldn’t exist if these observations held no water.

    But what is absolutely real for person A may be completely unrealistic for person B…and then person C is way out in left field wondering just what the fuck A and B are doing.

    Take what you want from others experiences and knowledge, but never let it fully eclipse your own.

    Liked by 2 people

  198. SFC Ton says:

    Not talking above average or even 1 SD above but high IQ. Who are also risk adverse and all decision making involves risk

    Like

  199. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    There are exceptions. Here is one.

    Like

  200. Yoda says:

    my ancestry is easily traceable all the way back to 1066

    Alive in 1066 I was.
    More impressive this would be.

    Liked by 2 people

  201. jf13 says:

    Remember when the US suddenly changed fighter pilot standards in the late 1970s? Reaction time was needed, so they recruited nerds. IQs went up 10 pts almost overnight. Literally they recruited ectomorphic neds straight out of video game arcades.

    And already by the *early* 1980s, the Top Gun dudes were nerds not jocks. Almost everywhere that nerds can rule, nerds do rule. To the dismay of women and alphas.

    Like

  202. jf13 says:

    re: “And for men too, the ones you are attracted to won’t love you but the ones who would you are not attracted to?”

    Who ever said that besides women, who are wrong about it. Men are extremely attracted to loving women; the REASON women get unloving is totally to dissuade attraction.

    Like

  203. jf13 says:

    The rage to master leads the actually highly intelligent to more risks than the nonactually literally couldn’t imagine.

    Liked by 1 person

  204. theasdgamer says:

    I tried climbing blindfolded tonight. Great fun! Was my second time climbing. Not risky with a belayer, but it felt risky.

    I was a little brash tonight in a plank competition, asking when the competition was gonna start after three minutes had passed. Then, I suggested demolition derby after a while since the people left didn’t seem to be wavering and it would take a while for one of them to drop.

    The plank competition is when you have to hold your body off the ground in a pushup position or on your elbows.

    Like

  205. jf13 says:

    Analysis paralysis is characteristic of the feminine and the slow, not the intelligent male.

    Like

  206. Liz says:

    Jf13, I just looked at the link you provided early. The answer is right there.

    “But lower sex drive and anxiety about sex’s consequences can’t be the whole story either. Half Sigma also showed that the smartest men in the GSS (approx. IQ >120) were also more likely to visit a prostitute. (Hardly indicative of cautiousness) This may suggest intelligent men are less able to find willing sex partners. Are smart men less attractive to women? Perhaps in some ways. For instance HS found that smart men were less likely to be athletic, and this paper shows, unathletic men and women have fewer sex partners. Athletic men, with more willing sexual partners are also less likely to visit a prostitute. Athletic activity gives men more masculine bodies, which are more attractive to women. A more masculine physique correlates with (PDF) an increased number of sex partners.

    So intelligent people have lower libidos and less masculine physiques. What hormone is responsible for both sex drive and masculine builds? That’s right: testosterone.

    And two new papers suggest that testosterone may depress IQ. One team found that salivary testosterone levels were lower for preadolescent boys with IQs above 130 and below 70. (the same two groups most likely to be virgins in adolescence)

    Another paper suggests that a gene responsible for androgen sensitivity and higher sperm counts may also create a tradeoff for intelligence.”

    Liked by 2 people

  207. Liz says:

    I’m not sure why intelligent people can’t also be athletic, but it appears that if they choose not to be they will be less attractive to women and have comparatively low T. No surprise there. Water is wet, grass is green. T is good for men and women prefer high T (masculine) guys.

    Liked by 1 person

  208. Cill says:

    An example of a high IQ guy who is neither athletic nor masculine:

    See http://archure.net/psychology/akrosintel.html

    Not much “choose not to be” athletic there, Liz. His face and build would suggest an inability to apply himself to hard physical activity. He just doesn’t have it in him:

    Like

  209. SFC Ton says:

    Again it’s a matter of degrees and application. Nerds are nerds because they are focused on dumb shit and from what I can gather feel.above such things. You can read air of revenge of the nerds fantasy porn and what not. No they don’t often grow up to get the girl or be the boss.

    Most athletic men are average or better IQ, but not the upper limits. Does happen. My dentist was MVP for Duke basketball a while back, and in a year they won the national championship. Very smart dude, but schools win with out a team full of nerds too. IIRC back when “they” studied us like lab rats, IQ topped out around 115-120. Not bad, but not brilliant. I know an intell guy who is at the upper end and was a Ranger when enlisted and I had a trooper who had a master’s degree in math and another one in statistics, but both struggled with… well everything.

    There are also some 1st clad air forces that don’t require college degrees to fly. Best I can tell the usa requiring a degree is more about our worship of credentials then practical war fighting. As a ground combat vet, the dudes with college degrees keep us from being an effective fighting force.

    I have not meet a dumb ass power lifter or strongman, but often it’s the practical sort of brain power. Engineers, mechanics, machinery etc kind of thing. My last strong man contest was like an engineer conference. Smart? Yep. Upper end of IQ? Fuck no snake

    I’ve also read in a few papers the high IQ types basically make piss poor decisions because they seek novel solutions to non problems, to bogged down in the detail and to focused on a perfect answer vs workable and timely one etc. This is also what I have noticed and nerds to be very liberal which destroys and notion of them being smart, good decision makers or high Testosterone

    If nerds where smart and athletic etc as JF wants to maintain, we would see more of it in the real world. If it was that big of a reproduction/ survival answer, you would see it play out that way in the SMP and demographic studies

    Like

  210. Liz says:

    “Not much “choose not to be” athletic there, Liz. His face and build would suggest an inability to apply himself to hard physical activity. He just doesn’t have it in him”

    Doing often equals thinking (just as thinking equals doing) Cill. Even poses like “man spreading” and standing tall decrease cortisol (the fat maker) and increase testosterone levels within 2 minutes.
    The man in the picture might never be an actual competitive athlete, but unless there is something wrong with him he does have the capability of becoming more athletic and manly than he is. Ways for a man to naturally increase testosterone=exercise and ‘manly stuff’ like risk taking, sports, ect.

    Like

  211. Liz says:

    It’s true their are ectomorphs, mesomorphs and endomorphs and they tend to have a certain body shape. But a person has a LOT more control of his/her body shape than IQ. My husband is a natural ectomorph. He was six feet tall and 130 pounds when he started college. Now, 210 and 6’3 and very muscular. He has always worked out just about every day. By contrast, I’m a mesomorph and tend to muscle up so I do less (since I don’t want to be a thick, muscular chick).

    Liked by 2 people

  212. Liz says:

    And our oldest (the only one old enough for us to see it yet) is more muscular at 16 than my husband was at 25. He got my meso-ness.

    Like

  213. SFC Ton says:

    The things you can do to increase natural testosterone crack me up. I read those articles and think who the fuck doesn’t already do.that shit as part of every day life.

    Point being if it’s not in someone to live xyz it’s not in them.

    Like

  214. Liz says:

    The Luftwaffe doesn’t require college degrees to fly. The purpose of the college degree isn’t really the degree. Back when my dad was a pilot they didn’t require degrees either.

    But with 50 million to 100 million on the line with each plane, and about 10 million dollars investment per pilot (just to get through pilot training), they want a make sure the guy can analyze a lot of data and make a decision very fast. It’s a lot easier to make that selection from a bunch of applicants who graduated first in their class in aerospace engineering, along with excelling in (whatever specific tests), than to make that selection from a bunch of 18 and 19 year old kids itching to be a pilot.

    Also keep in mind pilots aren’t just pilots. They’re also mission planners, strategists, and so forth. That guy who has been flying only for a couple of years might have to plan a mission involving over a billion dollars worth of kit.

    Liked by 1 person

  215. Cill says:

    Liz if I could see a photo of your husband’s face when he started college, I’d not be saying, “He just doesn’t have it in him”. I’d be saying”He very much does have it in him”. I know this without having seen his photo. Look at an old photo of him. You’ll see it in his eyes, a capacity for resolve. The nerd up there ^^^ see his eyes? It ain’t there.

    Like

  216. Liz says:

    I don’t think most people know this Ton….it’s part of your everyday life because it comes more naturally to you than most. But people can change if they know how and objects in motion stay in motion, and all that. This is true of positive habit patterns (and negative ones) too.
    In one of the most interesting studies on ‘power posing’ I’ve heard of, they took some job candidates and had some of them, do ‘power poses’ right before the interview, and others do sheepish poses (head down, closed shy body language). They did this for about five minutes and the power pose people were far, far more likely to get the job after the interview (something like 20 times more likely…it was a very very dramatic difference).

    Liked by 1 person

  217. Liz says:

    That’s probaby true, Cill.

    Like

  218. Cill “Alana Liked you at 9:48 pm Liz but I won’t! Only a woman could Like you there!” (on external fertilisation)

    Lol it’s hard to not click ‘like’ on Liz’s comments with that adorable puppy pic. Anytime I’m not sure whether to click ‘like’, I imagine the puppy tilting its head to the side asking balefully “You don’t Like me??”

    Besides I just read that average first-time-mums’ labour duration is 12 hrs! Good grief…Not that I don’t enjoy Frisky time lol

    Liked by 1 person

  219. SFC Ton says:

    As if I am unaware of any of that Liz, but I have planned missions. It’s a trade skill, on the job training develops. No college required. It’s the american version of classism.

    I figure if you are the kin of guy who takes risks, kills shit, lift heavy thing etc you have been doing all that already. If you aren’t well I doubt reading an article will change your mind. But the articles are.easy to crank out and probably get lots of hits from low t guys looking for the easy way out

    Cill, how many times have you looked for a miracle.cure or the easy way out?

    Liked by 1 person

  220. Cill says:

    Alana you terrible person you, to Like on “external fertilisation”. 😉

    I don’t know about that pup. It looks a bit nerdy to me. Dog, the resident canine at my place, would find the pup frustrating, barely enough to make a decent appetizer…

    That pup is either a nerd or a usurper… See Liz’s previous avatar?

    Like

  221. Cill says:

    “Cill, how many times have you looked for a miracle.cure or the easy way out?”

    There was no miracle cure or easy way out. There was only the school of hard knocks for me.

    Liked by 1 person

  222. Cill says:

    “I just read that average first-time-mums’ labour duration is 12 hrs”
    Wee Meddy’s mum was in labor all day. He has a big head.

    Liked by 1 person

  223. Liz says:

    Ton, I have no doubt whatsoever many people without degrees could make excellent candidates as pilots today. John Boyd, developed the concept of the OODA loop before he had and engineering degree, and get that degree until years after pilot training. It’s all cost to gains. Finding people like that from a pile of applicants would be like finding Steve Jobs (a dropout). There are fewer fighter pilots in the US than professional athletes, and the expense of failure is a whole lot higher.

    Liked by 1 person

  224. Liz says:

    Jesus I need to read before posting. Lots of typos and errors up there….

    Like

  225. theasdgamer says:

    The ancient Greeks considered physical development as necessary to a good education. Athletics were par for the course. Not just a one-hour phys ed class every day.

    They also studied philosophy, which strengthened the analytical ability. Schools emphasize analytical ability way too much and still don’t train it right.

    The social development of nerds could be enhanced by training them to be engagingly playful. You see this engaging playfulness in teenage boys’ locker rooms among the boys with towel-snapping, etc. Too much fear of holding hands in the shower keeps men from being engagingly playful. Need more trust and that requires teamwork and working together to overcome obstacles.

    Liked by 1 person

  226. jf13 says:

    re: “they want a make sure the guy can analyze a lot of data and make a decision very fast. It’s a lot easier to make that selection from a bunch of applicants who graduated first in their class”

    Because of the extremely high correlation between intelligence and speed of thought. I wouldn’t even actually distinguish between the two, in the same way that I wouldn’t call a limping slower-than-Christmas plodder a runner.

    Liked by 1 person

  227. Cill, lol exactly how does a puppy look nerdy? Btw I can’t quite make out whether it has a black ear or if there’s something black placed on its head. o.O

    No I didn’t see Liz’s previous avatar. But if it’s of her, I already expect Liz to look beautiful 🙂 I can tell

    Liked by 2 people

  228. jf13 says:

    re: “He was six feet tall and 130 pounds when he started college. Now, 210 and 6’3”

    I developed early, and didn’t really grow after about age 15.

    Like

  229. jf13 says:

    re: “If nerds where smart and athletic etc as JF wants to maintain”

    I have never maintained that nerds tend to be atheletic. What I have said is that even in cases where nerds are athletic then their nerdiness/intelligence is a net negative.

    Like

  230. theasdgamer says:

    Nerds work together on projects like building robots. They tease each other somewhat and can be playful, but it’s typically verbal teasing, not physical. Physical prowess is considered beneath them.

    Liked by 1 person

  231. Yoda says:

    Wee Meddy’s mum was in labor all day. He has a big head.

    Apply to Moe this does?

    Liked by 1 person

  232. “Wee Meddy’s mum was in labor all day. He has a big head.”

    Ouch 😉 My mum has pointed out that on our birthdays, we should be expressing gratitude to our mums for what we bought them thru. :p

    Liked by 1 person

  233. Cill says:

    “how does a puppy look nerdy?”
    See his eyes? He has a lack of resolve there. Also he has a nerdy black patch on the side of his head like he’s trying for one of Princess Leia’s side buns…

    Liked by 1 person

  234. Cill says:

    Besides he took Liz’s other avatar away from me and it gave me some grief and I’ll never forgive him for that.

    Liked by 1 person

  235. “See his eyes? He has a lack of resolve there”, That puppy knows looking weak and helpless is his meal ticket for now 😉

    Lol as a kid, I thought Princess Leia was soo hot. Esp in her bikini 🙂 One of the best parts about Star Wars.

    Liked by 2 people

  236. Liz says:

    Aw thanks Alana! 🙂
    ((hugs))

    Liked by 1 person

  237. Cill says:

    Leia was the first and last love of many a nerd.

    Liked by 1 person

  238. Liz says:

    “I developed early, and didn’t really grow after about age 15.”

    Since I’ve known him he grew one inch, one foot size, chest hair, and fell facial hair (he couldn’t grow a full beard back then. Very, very late bloomer.

    “I have never maintained that nerds tend to be atheletic. What I have said is that even in cases where nerds are athletic then their nerdiness/intelligence is a net negative.”

    You’ve said it, but the evidence you’ve provided not only doesn’t confirm this statement, it actually contradicts it.

    Like

  239. Cill says:

    I saw Princess Leia when I was a pre-schooler. I thought her side buns were earphones so I pestered my mum to buy me some big earphones so I could hear what Leia was hearing.
    lol

    Liked by 2 people

  240. Liz says:

    That’s so cute, CIll! 😀

    Like

  241. theasdgamer says:

    @ jf13

    Dad was super intelligent and quite the ladies’ man. He gave off a strong Machiavellian vibe. Movie star good looks, too. Don’t know about his athleticism. He always seemed dangerous. I note Ton’s proxy-for-violence idea. Even if you’re intelligent, appear as if you could lose it at any time.

    You were fortunate to develop quickly. I had physical and social developmental problems due to autism. Started growing slowly at 13. Didn’t stop growing until I was 23. I had physical coordination problems while young and not growing. My athletic ability when young was crap due to these factors. I still kept trying. Eventually I developed (maybe the neurons matured/developed?) and my ability improved a lot. I have to credit soccer with a lot of my development as an adult due to my learning balance and agility. Wasn’t too bad as a wrestler or boxer in junior high. Terrible as a gymnast. Strangely, when I took a caffeine drug, I could easily walk on my hands as a senior in high school. Better living through chemistry.

    Liked by 1 person

  242. Cill says:

    Thanks Liz. I’ve been called many things, but “cute” isn’t usually one of them. >:D

    Liked by 1 person

  243. I just re-watched Princess Leia’s gold bikini scene. If this was in the cinemas in modern times, the skinny-shaming and real-women-have-fat-rolls brigade would probably be out in arms. I’m not even exaggerating. >.<

    Liked by 1 person

  244. U’re welcome Liz. -Hugs back- 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  245. Cill says:

    When you ladies are done hugging each other could you spare one for me? I haven’t had a hug for at least 5 hours.

    Like

  246. Here’s one for u Cill~ -Hugs- 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  247. Liz says:

    Full-bodied hug dogpile on Cill! 🙂

    (wait…is M okay with this?) 😛

    Liked by 1 person

  248. jf13 says:

    re: “He always seemed dangerous. I note Ton’s proxy-for-violence idea. Even if you’re intelligent, appear as if you could lose it at any time.”

    Yes but. Intelligent men tend to look and act much more in control and, not to be punny, thoughtful.

    Like

  249. jf13 says:

    re: engineers etc

    The folks with actual mad skillz in what-makes-the-real-world-tick are nerds. This is the domain that nerdz rule more than any other. And in a very real sense the fields that nerds self-choose are by far the most male-dominated fields. Yet none of this makes women like nerds more.

    Like

  250. jf13 says:

    re: “You were fortunate to develop quickly.”

    Nope, very unfortunate since I was prohibited from making use of any of it. I was apparently kinda cute as a prepubescent boy, but as every unanattractive male will tell you, girls flee as soon as he is able to impregnate them.

    Like

  251. Cill says:

    lol Yeah! Two instant knee-jerk Likes from me! 😀

    (Liz I’m running a dread on M. See I’m picking things up from my male advisers on this blog 😉 😉 )

    Liked by 3 people

  252. jf13 says:

    re: girls fleeing

    Yes, I know now that my projections of girls’ feelings from their behaviors doesn’t work right, but only because girls’ feelings and behaviors don’t work right. But I have several amusing-at-a-distance anecdotes, as well as anecdata. My strikeout record was 0 for 30+ in high school.

    Like

  253. Cill says:

    Actually if M heard about any of this she’d be highly amused, and she would put the moves on me. It works!

    Liked by 2 people

  254. I’m going out to grab some supper now. Hugs can’t fill my tummy :p See ya~ 🙂

    Liked by 3 people

  255. jf13 says:

    After the fact, most women misremember actual turn-down incidents, and to a surprising degree women later *identify* with the men they turned down. Another one of those female quirks.

    Like

  256. Liz says:

    “The folks with actual mad skillz in what-makes-the-real-world-tick are nerds. This is the domain that nerdz rule more than any other. And in a very real sense the fields that nerds self-choose are by far the most male-dominated fields. Yet none of this makes women like nerds more.”

    So? The fact that a field is male dominated doesn’t make the folks who work it attractive to females. High T levels, looking manly and behaving manly (including athleticism) is what is attractive to females. I maintain intelligence matters…it just might not matter as much, or at all, depending on the woman. If I wanted to marry an idiot I’d have picked my senior year boyfriend. He egged my house after I told him I wouldn’t marry him, so he was “mean” too. Mean and stupid. What a dreamboat. Yar!

    Liked by 2 people

  257. jf13 says:

    High T levels do not cause attractiveness; attractiveness causes more sex which increases T. Giving unattractive men more T does not increase attractiveness. Lowering attractive men’s T does not lower attractiveness.

    Like

  258. jf13 says:

    Women and alphas are so vested in validating women’s choices that they make up stuff about nerds not ruling. And nothing angers them more than pointing that out.

    Like

  259. Liz says:

    According to the study referenced in this article:

    http://healthland.time.com/2012/02/27/the-secret-to-guys-sex-appeal-low-stress-high-testosterone-strong-immunity/

    Male attractiveness is linked to both high T and low cortisol level (the stuff those power poses I mentioned before, as well as physical exertion, lower).

    Like

  260. Liz says:

    You’re coming across as the more angry one, Jf13.

    Like

  261. jf13 says:

    Kutlu et al. 2001. Testosterone and nonverbal intelligence in right-handed men with successful and unsuccessful educational levels. Int J Neurosci., 111(1-2):1-9.

    Dropouts have lower IQs and slightly lower T than those that get degrees.
    “S-men tended to have higher T levels than NS-men. The mean IQ was found to be significantly higher in S-men than NS-men.

    Nerds with degrees have higher T than nonnerds with degrees.
    “In S-men, the relationship between T and IQ was best described by a polynomial regression equation of the 3rd order; however, the relationship was not U-shaped, but rather a positive correlation (low T: low IQ and high T high IQ).”

    But dropout nerds have low T.
    “In NS-men, there was an inverse U-shaped correlation between T and IQ (low and very high T: low IQ and moderate T: high IQ).”

    Women and alphas like to pretend that the ruling nerds are the same as the nonruling nerds, because it makes them feel better about themselves.

    Like

  262. jf13 says:

    re: Mean and stupid

    “The fact that my boyfriend was mean and stupid doesn’t prove anything about my preferences!”

    Like

  263. Liz says:

    ““The fact that my boyfriend was mean and stupid doesn’t prove anything about my preferences!”

    Oh, those very angry alphas and women….

    I didn’t date him because he mean and stupid, I dated him in spite of the fact that he was stupid (and he was only mean after I broke it off).

    I did, however, marry an engineering major with an IQ of 145. And he has very high T (and is athletic, and all that). Since your own link (which you don’t seem to want to own up to now, much like that “your husband can’t really love you if he knows he’s attractive one that didn’t say exactly what you claimed it did either) indicates T levels fall at the 130 or higher IQ range, as well as the lower than 70 range, and T is associated with risk taking and attractiveness, that would put a lot of perspective on the “girls don’t like geniuses” thing.

    Like

  264. jf13 says:

    re: validating women’s choices

    What’s in it for me? Why should I bother encouraging women and empowering women and helping them rationalize their choices? What *should* I get out of it?

    Like

  265. Liz says:

    Who brought up validating women’s choices?

    Like

  266. Liz says:

    The discussion so far has been simply countering your numerous erroneous claims.

    Liked by 1 person

  267. theasdgamer says:

    @ Liz

    Women and alphas like to pretend that the ruling nerds are the same as the nonruling nerds, because it makes them feel better about themselves.

    This was about validating women’s choices. I’ll try not to be catty, Bloom. lolz

    Liked by 1 person

  268. Liz says:

    Okay…I’m not sure who pretended that ruling nerds are the same as nonruling nerds either (aside from the person making the statement itself)?

    Like

  269. Liz says:

    Here Bloom. A cat orgy. 😛

    Like

  270. Liz says:

    Another 😛

    Liked by 1 person

  271. theasdgamer says:

    @ jf13

    If you’re a smart nerd, the key is to irritate the h311 out of women and not apologize for it (unless you smirk when you apologize). Just smirk at Liz a bit and everything will flow swimmingly….

    Like

  272. theasdgamer says:

    @ Liz

    That’s the way to do it. No cuddling. The male should have offered the female a zebra haunch to leave.

    Like

  273. Cill says:

    Unless there’s a hug in it, in which case I’d apologize from here to kingdom come
    😈
    … with a smug smirk of course.

    Liked by 1 person

  274. Cill says:

    I’ll tell you what, if I’d had that hug from the old avatar, I…
    Well I don’t know what I would’ve done.

    Liked by 1 person

  275. Liz says:

    Lol Cill.

    I’m not so irritated as I am confused. I don’t think Jf13 is employing the “irritating” Game trick so much as the Jedi mind trick. And…I feel officially tricked. I’m just not sure what happened there.

    Liked by 2 people

  276. theasdgamer says:

    @ Liz

    Okay…I’m not sure who pretended that ruling nerds are the same as nonruling nerds either (aside from the person making the statement itself)?

    Reminds me of getting ready last night for the rope-coiling competition…lots of following threads and untangling the knots.

    Ton said, “My last strong man contest was like an engineer conference. Smart? Yep.” Athletic engineers probably get laid.

    jf13 said, “Engineers are nerds.” Implication: Strong men are ruling nerds. Obviously, most engineers aren’t strong men.

    You implied that your unicorn husband with high IQ is similar to other high IQ men…engineers. He’s a fighter pilot. Kind of unicornish, like strong men engineers.

    In your defense, you ARE blonde. (I’m sure you’ve never heard that before.) lolzlolzssszlolxz Ok, enough with the cheap blonde jokes.

    jf13 has been making strong points….which you have been dissing, maybe because it doesn’t solipsistically fit your experience with your unicorn husband.

    Like

  277. Cill says:

    I’m mystified too.
    FWIW Jf sometimes uses language I don’t comprehend at first or second glance so my attention moves down to the next comment.

    Liked by 2 people

  278. theasdgamer says:

    Jedi mind trick:

    Liked by 1 person

  279. Liz says:

    “You implied that your unicorn husband with high IQ is similar to other high IQ men…engineers. He’s a fighter pilot. Kind of unicornish, like strong men engineers.”

    Ah, thankyou for unraveling.

    No, I dont’ think Mike’s typical, because (from the link JF13 himself helpfully provided) on average T level would fall after 130 IQ points. But most engineers don’t have IQs over 130 and I see no reason why an engineer couldn’t or woulnd’t be strong. Furthermore, I was an engineering major and know a great many engineer graduates…and more than average were masculine, quick-witted people. They weren’t jocks, but they weren’t the sensitive ponytail weenie types I’d come to associate with liberal arts majors.

    Liked by 2 people

  280. Cill says:

    I’m an engineer. I’ve dealt with rugged individualistic men working in tough conditions in places such as Siberia, Western China, South America, Papua New Guinea. Maybe it’s the circles I move in, but I’ve yet to meet a nerd engineer.

    Liked by 1 person

  281. theasdgamer says:

    Lots of software engineers are nerdy and feminized. Some are also very masculine–they like to have ATF parties (with alcohol, tobacco, and firearms). If you drink and drive, don’t smoke. [drunk driver looking down by his feet for the cigarette he dropped as he swerves into oncoming traffic]

    Like

  282. theasdgamer says:

    @ Liz

    I see no reason why an engineer couldn’t or woulnd’t be strong.

    A software engineer probably doesn’t build muscles like someone who mixes concrete for a living or a farmer.

    Like

  283. Liz says:

    “Lots of software engineers are nerdy and feminized. Some are also very masculine–they like to have ATF parties”

    Agreed, some are nerdy, and some are masculine.
    Do think the “very masculine” guys have an easier time getting women than the nerds?
    If so, do you think this is because the masculine ones are dumber?

    Like

  284. jf13 says:

    re: “liberal arts majors”

    Dominated by females.

    Liked by 1 person

  285. Cill says:

    “software engineers”
    Okay they’re a different bunch altogether.
    My qualification is MEng

    Like

  286. jf13 says:

    “Engineers aren’t nerds!” is something engineers say who don’t wanna be nerds.

    Liked by 1 person

  287. Liz says:

    “Engineers aren’t nerds!” is something engineers say who don’t wanna be nerds.”

    That’s true. The masculine ones often call themselves enginerds. Because they don’t give a fuck.

    Like

  288. theasdgamer says:

    The masculine engineers were smart but didn’t seem all that “lucky”. Three were married and one was single. They didn’t do well at estimating time to code. Actually, almost nobody did except yours truly.

    Like

  289. theasdgamer says:

    The masculine ones often call themselves enginerds.

    New term for me.

    Like

  290. Cill says:

    Just to be clear, are all of you (including Liz) talking about software engineers?

    Like

  291. Liz says:

    Why do you think masculine guys are dumb, Jf13? That’s what I want to know.

    Like

  292. Liz says:

    Engineers are brilliant, Cill and you and your coworkers are obviously not nerds. He’s doing it to me again.

    Like

  293. Liz says:

    “New term for me.”

    Really? I hear that one a lot. “I’m an enginerd”

    Like

  294. Cill says:

    Civil Engineers and a software engineers are completely different animals.
    I’m a Civil Engineer and I’m not a nerd.

    Liked by 1 person

  295. Liz says:

    I know you’re not a nerd CIll.
    But if Jf13 gathered the temerity to walk up to you and called you a nerd to your face, would you care?

    Jf13 is implying that all smart people are nerds and women don’t like nerds. He has stated that women like stupid men and implies that if women like you, you must be dumber than people women don’t like. When I try to refute these observations** he throws a phantom windmill into the air and turns it around to an accusation that I am trying to validate women’s choices. I’m not. I’m rejecting on principle the assertion that masculine men are dumber.

    **(and, I’m done now…there’s no point, just like there’s no point in trying to ‘prove’ my husband loves me to jf13 who believes this to be an impossible thing. I’m sure he has his reasons)

    Liked by 1 person

  296. Cill says:

    I’m sitting here having a laugh, thinking of some of the badass Civil Engineers I’ve worked with being called nerds. Sure there’s a lot of design and planning goes into it but the rest of the time I’m out there in the elements managing hard men and doing dangerous work. I bang heads and take names.

    Liked by 1 person

  297. Cill says:

    “if Jf13 gathered the temerity to walk up to you and called you a nerd to your face, would you care?”

    Liz, I’d just think it was damn funny. If you could see what I look like face to face, you’d understand why.

    Liked by 1 person

  298. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Cill,
    At 4:03am, I had a link to a well known martial engineer.

    Liz,
    Speaking for myself, what I think that Jf13 is trying to get out is that any attribte a man has, for goo or ill, is a reason for rejection. The tallest blade of grass is always the first to be cut.
    In one of his old posts, Privateman tells of”hen party” to help Averae navigate internet dating. A few hours and a few bottles of wine later, all the men have been rejected, none are acceptable.

    What I am feeling, right now, is that men get to put themselves out there and women get to choose.
    It’s gone beyond ridiculous.
    Maybe, we should all take up video games.

    Note: present company is excepted from this behavior.

    Like

  299. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Liz,
    There were alot of 19 year old fighter pilots in WWII. At the end, I think that we had 2.2 million men under arms. I think a Curtiss P-40 cost about $45k.
    One of the things that we did better than anyone was pilot training. Two years of it before guys saw combat.

    Liked by 1 person

  300. Liz says:

    “There were alot of 19 year old fighter pilots in WWII. At the end, I think that we had 2.2 million men under arms. I think a Curtiss P-40 cost about $45k.”

    Yes, we were pumping out a lot of great planes and pilots back in the day. Tech is too advanced for that now…we can’t turn a sewing machine factory into a fighter factory virtually overnight anymore (not so sure we even have sewing machine factories anymore). And the pilots can’t be trained that quickly either….
    I’m not sure how much 10,000 dollars per hour is in 1940’s dollars, but that’s roughly what it is now to train a pilot.

    Like

  301. Liz says:

    The above figure depends on what he flies, of course…but with maintenance costs and fuel costs, it’s a whole whole lot.

    Like

  302. At my first high tech job, the VP of software engineering, Ed,was one of the most attractive men I have ever met, brilliant and also very socially intelligent. Rare. He was dreamy, but married. Lucky wife! Sigh….

    And there were also less attractive and not at all attractive software engineers.

    Like

  303. @ liz, the meow was not directed at you or mean to imply you or anyone was being catty. I was just being bratty! 😉

    Like

  304. Liz says:

    It was funny, Bloom. 🙂
    Totally OT but I just looked up a conversion calculator and
    $10,000.00 in 2015 has the same buying power as $605.02 in 1941.
    Holy crap, I knew we had inflation but I didn’t know it was that bad!

    Like

  305. Cill says:

    Liz is a good sort.

    Liked by 2 people

  306. Cill says:

    There are a lot of good sorts on this blog.

    Liked by 2 people

  307. theasdgamer says:

    @ Liz

    Jf13 is implying that all smart people are nerds and women don’t like nerds

    You left out an important point that jf13 made. There are “ruling nerds” who get lucky. jf13 stipulated that exclusion and you are ignoring his stipulation.

    You are relying on exceptions to the rule to try to disprove the rule.

    This is me in my spergy, analytical, unattractive mode. Do you feel all tingly? Thought not.

    Intelligent men typically engage the cortex of women. Even if the women understand what intelligent men say, it doesn’t generate tingles. Men need to reach the amygdala to generate tingles. This is the important point. Reaching the woman’s cortex kills sexual attraction even though it may generate platonic bonding.

    Do you see a problem with my model? I assume that jf13 is working from the same model of women’s sexuality.

    Like

  308. jf13 says:

    re: “any attribte a man has, for goo or ill, is a reason for rejection”

    Kind of. More definitely, the point I keep trying to make is that what we normally consider good attributes, or should consider good attributes, are not what helps a man not get rejected.

    I’m trying to stay away from double (and triple) negatives for better clarity, but I’m not sure how to rework “not not rejected” there.

    Like

  309. theasdgamer says:

    @ jf13

    I’m trying to stay away from double (and triple) negatives for better clarity

    I could care less. But how much less?

    Like

  310. Liz says:

    Thanks, Cill!
    Yes, there are. (including you!)
    🙂

    Like

  311. jf13 says:

    re: spergy, analytical, unattractive

    Apparently it’s ok to women for men to be spergy and analytical (semi-synonyms) provided you are spergily analytical about something other than women. She might roll her eyes about her silly dude’s WWII collection, but it’s a good rolling of the eyes (relatively).

    Like

  312. SFC Ton says:

    Nerd.worship and beta worship is running wild

    The most dangerous, high risk life or.death decision etc bidness around is not dominated by the super high IQ. For a shit ton of reasons. Pretty much negates all JF 13 has to say on the topic

    Requiring degrees is about snobbery. The AH64D is a flying super computer/ death machine etc and advanced as hell. You cal fly it with a high school diploma. UAV’s do not require a college degree either ( for the army) yet the air force requires college etc for the same job.

    Given this dude is a freak of nature, think his IQ lowers his SMP value?

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-03-20/an-nfl-offensive-lineman-just-published-an-insanely-complex-study-in-a-math-journal

    A quarter in 1945 was a silver quarter; now it cost you 5 bucks… or their about. Who gave us this inflation? The high IQ types JF 13 is trying to pimp. Out side of engineers, high IQ types do more harm then good; given the way engineers vote etc the same can be said about them.

    We are utterly ass raped if booze, guns and tobacco is some kind of high water mark of masculinty. I love all of the above but it’s not like it’s the two rifle range or requires much beyond money or free time.

    Like

  313. jf13 says:

    Football players overwhelmingly drawn to artsy fartsy liberal humanities degrees, says Urschel.
    http://www.theplayerstribune.com/math-meets-football-one-in-600-billion/

    Like

  314. jf13 says:

    In the same way that there are too few women studying useful STEM subjects, there are too few stupid people studying useful STEM subjects. Those nerds are hogging all the good subjects for themselves, just to make others look bad!

    Like

  315. jf13 says:

    re: The most dangerous, high risk life or.death decision etc bidness around

    Would that be Bond James Bond, or his archnemesis Dr. Evildude?

    Like

  316. jf13 says:

    I’m not the man they think I am at home.

    It’s not rocket science; somebody (Fuzzie?) said that the reason women didn’t appreciate their nerd men’s accomplishments is because either the women couldn’t see or understand them. I think I interpreted that as white knighting, but I’m not sure. Would a woman come to feel Dread of her nerd husband if she saw and understood his nerd accomplishments?

    Like

  317. Liz says:

    I hope I’m not outing any famous people here…..

    Like

  318. SFC Ton says:

    I am certain working away from home hurts a man’s image. Women/ kids never see him take on the world and win

    Like

  319. SFC Ton says:

    I am certain working away from home hurts a man’s image. Women/ kids never see him take on the world and win

    Like

  320. theasdgamer says:

    @ Ton

    We are utterly ass raped

    You could have stopped there, lol.

    Like

  321. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    “I am not the man they think I am at home.”

    Jf13,
    For some women to understand what men can accomplish would have embarrassing consequences.
    They might have to respect it.So, they would rather ignore it.

    Like

  322. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    In all fairness to Ton, University professors have been all over the Acropolis attempting to see to its rebuilding for the last twenty years. They haven’t gotten very far. It took twenty years to build it in the first place in 500 BC.

    However, nerds are good for finding ways to do things that have never been done before.

    Like

  323. SFC Ton says:

    Personally I am a big fan of nerds, they keep me alive, make life more enjoyable and a whole host of positive things but I don’t ascribe magical properties to them either.

    Like I said before, Girl#1 did not understand the reality of me/ my profession until we had that run in with some urban diversity. I very much think that is in play with how women and kids view husband’s and fathers. But maybe not since most of men’s work day is pretty much like the most of women’s work day.

    Liked by 1 person

  324. Sumo says:

    Late to the party as usual, but FWIW, I could be considered a nerd. In fact, my nerdiness is the reason why I am the way I am today. SumoDaddy was in the air force, so I grew up on an air force base, surrounded by white kids. When I was a kid/teenager, I had an IQ in the 160 range (it’s since dropped to about 145 – I blame the line-of-duty concussions I’ve received over the years). Being a brainy, pudgy, half-Jap kid amongst a sea of whiteys meant I had a target on my back since Day 1.

    So, I started learning martial arts, and applied muh smartz to studying how to do incredibly violent things to other people. I also began to hide the aforementioned smartz, which was easier due to the fact that SumoDaddy retired from the air force when I was 13, and we moved off the base and into the civilian world. No one knew anything about me, so it was easy to make folks believe I was less intelligent than I was.

    It’s been beneficial at times – the look on people’s faces when they realize that I’m not as dumb as I look is priceless.

    Liked by 2 people

  325. Liz says:

    Sumo, that’s very interesting but obviously what you say cannot be true. It’s already been established by Puddleglum above that nerds are not attractive and cannot possibly make themselves more attractive to women.

    Liked by 2 people

  326. jf13 says:

    I prefer Vileplume, as being more evolved. Bill Gates is a prime example of a ruling nerd who ruled *because* of his nerdness yet nevertheless was still totally unattractive *because* of his nerdness. He was completely dominant, but only in the way that *women* dominate “I’ll get you! I’ll make other people dislike you!”

    Like

  327. Oops I haven’t really commented on the ‘cat lady’ topic. Although I somewhat envy Tarn for wanting a childfree lifestyle, I think I definitely want kids and would be sad if I never had any.

    I’m just a little scared I’ll get one like this. 😉

    http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/1985/12/27

    Liked by 1 person

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