Mama Said, Mama Said


Ever heard the word “distaff” used in connection with females? Generally, the word is applied to wedded women, as in “His distaff side ain’t gonna like this!”.

I got to thinking about the etymology of the word, and what I found opens lots of discussion possibilities! According to the Mirriam-Webster Student Dictionary, the word comes to us from Old English “distæf”, where dis- refers to “bunch of flax” and stæf “staff”. More precisely, “the spinning of yarn or thread was traditionally done by women using a spindle and a distaff. A spindle was a long spool to hold and spin the yarn. A distaff was a short rod with an opening or branches at the top for holding the flax or wool.”

How women began stringing men along?

As the dictionary continues, “Because women usually did the spinning, the distaff came to be a symbol for women’s work. The word distaff in time took on the meaning ‘women’s work’ and later ‘woman.’ The noun distaff is rarely used in this way today, but the female members of a family are still referred to as the distaff side.”

What spun me up is what the word might have come to mean on the streets if it wasn’t somewhat obscure and obsolete, except among those of us with a historical bent. To “diss” someone is to disrespect them. Staff could be seen as an analog of the usage of the word “crew” or “posse”. So the street term could come to mean a group who disrespects someone. Spinnin’ Wheel Got To Go ‘Round!

I told you that tale in order to tell you this one.

Again, a topic was inspired by a comment of a regular in a previous thread. Tarnished related an encounter with the distaff side of her family regarding her relationship status and future. As she put it, “I’ve convinced them that I’ll never be having kids. Now they’re intent on telling me I’m ‘at least going to need to be married, right?’ ”

I believe I’ve said before that women tend to police their own on what behaviors are allowed and what are not, and from an early age. For instance, my five-year-old granddaughter already talks about when she gets married, although in this case I suspect it comes more from her traditionalist father and television than her mother. But we all know little girls who are already caught up in the fairy tale from whatever source.

It’s what happens after the wedding which concerns this post.

I replied to another Tarn query with this: “What you are experiencing is similar to slut shaming, in that women are expected to get some man to marry [her] and give [her] control [over him and the relationship]. That you choose to not do so, they see as cheapening the brand, so to speak. It isn’t The Way It’s Supposed To Be.” Think of what I relate below along these lines.

As I grew up, I’d regularly hear my mom giving my sisters (whom I will call Ree and Tee for my convenience) “advice” on what one does once one is married. It might be couched in terms of “when you have a house of your own” and such, but anyone with a smidgen of smarts knows what is entailed in the vast majority of cases to achieve home ownership – matrimony. To hear the rules of how sex is used in a relationship, however, isn’t something that is usually heard by male members of the family. That would risk exposing secrets!

Ree had just gotten divorced from a guy she bullied into marrying her. They’d once gone camping together, and she let him seduce her. “Now you have to marry me” was apparently the argument, and it went forward. She later complained -after the divorce was final- that on her first anniversary, she sat at home while he was out screwing another woman. She’d already driven him away with her manipulative behaviors.

So the divorce was now final, and Ree was openly on the prowl. I was about to move from Chicago to Los Angeles, and at my farewell party, Ree complained loud enough for all the guys to hear that she hadn’t gotten any in a while. She spent the rest of the evening interviewing potential suitors and rejecting them all due to one reason or another – usually how they had girlfriends or wives. Go figure!

This is where Tee comes in. She had some guys in tow who were from Greece, a couple of Wild and Crazy Guys! She was herself in the process of divorcing a guy who she’d driven insane (literally – he’s still in treatment), and thought the two of them would make good dates. I was still in Chicago when these guys came by to take them out, and I could see the trouble beginning to brew. Ree was dressed in full-bore cock-teaser attire, and their eyes lit up when they saw her. Mom also caught a glimpse of what Ree had on, and the smoke began to rise. “I want to talk to you two tomorrow night,” she declared in a threatening tone very familiar to family members as her way of saying, “Have fun, because I’ll make you pay for it later.”

Ree and Tee were out much of the night, not returning until very early in the morning. I don’t know that anything happened, but they were given the riot act the next evening. They were both told about how they looked like sluts, and that guys would treat them like sluts when they dressed like this. “You save such trash for when you and your husbands have sex in the privacy of your own bedrooms,” was the directive. “You get some kind of commitment out of a decent man before you give in to him.”

I’m sure in part mom didn’t like the fact that these guys were Greek. Northern Indiana Germans aren’t especially known for miscegenation with non-Aryans, you know!

Tarn had asked me in the thread, “Blurkel, You have a daughter, if I remember correctly. What kind of “advice” does your wife give to her?”

Having two daughters, I get to hear a fair amount. My elder daughter had met her current husband, and discussed with her mother whether sex could commence. “Not until you get some commitment out of him,” was the reply. The sign of commitment ended up being the engagement ring. Then it was OK with her mother that they got it on. Sex was now paid for without resorting to using the filthy lucre.

That got the hook in the mouth of the catfish, didn’t it?

The bigger the fish, the fatter the bank account!

Now to set the hook and land the fish.

An ex-sister-in-law was living with the collection of my mother-in-law, me, my fiancée (at the time), and my brother-in-law. BIL was humming as he went about waking up in the morning, prompting MIL to ask ex-SIL why BIL was so upbeat. Ex-SIL replied offhandedly, “Oh, he got a little last night.”

“You’re learning, girl!” exclaimed MIL, and certain light bulbs began to glow under my hood, not so much about that women used sex as a weapon of control of men, but how and a bit about why.

Tarn came up with a reply to my comments which inspired this post: “We often talk of women who are outside our daily lives…I’m interested to see what happens in the families of my online friends here. It’d be enlightening to compare notes on how we vs our female relatives were raised.”

Your assignment, Mr. Phelps, is to add to the discussion of the topic. In the event you are discovered or captured by The Distaff, we will deny any knowledge of you. This post will self-terminate in seconds. Good luck!

Advertisements
Tagged with: , ,
Posted in AWALT, Blurkel, Marriage, Tarn
45 comments on “Mama Said, Mama Said
  1. Spawny Get says:

    I’d heard distaff used recently and had it on my background list of words what to understand proper. Thanks for that.

    I do think that it’s an important route to helping men, to get them to recognise that women aren’t these lovely sex giving magical creatures to be treasured, protected and financed. Things would improve markedly for men if they treated women as men. Held them accountable as they do men. Require payback of favours as they do with men. Require them to tell the truth, as they do men they deal with. Stick to deals. Contribute more than sex. Show some ability to understand other people’s viewpoints…that kind of thing.

    The stories you tell of the females in your circle’s ways of scheming mirror the ways of PUAs, I suppose. The difference being that the vast majority of women have the scheming behaviour innately, whereas there are few natural PUAs at the same level as most women.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Tarnished says:

    Don’t have a lot of time to comment just now, but I will say this:

    Such advice was far more subtle in my house, but it was always given while my brother and stepfather were out of the house. It only too me a few times to realize this. Interestingly, my mother stopped trying to give me advice of this sort by the age of 16, when she accepted I wasn’t ever going to act or dress the way she wanted. I wasn’t rebellious, I was in the National Honors Society, I did volunteer work after class, and had a 20 hour a week job…but every day I heard “*sigh* Tarnished, why are you so…difficult?”

    Thus I concluded that Independent Thought = Difficult.

    Compared this to my younger sisters who constantly got into fights, quarreled with my mother incessantly, had to go to summer school every year, and took forever to get jobs…but dressed and acted like women in public…who weren’t randomly told they were “difficult”.

    Even more interesting: I was over visiting them last month and a curious thing happened. The conversation had been spinning around the fact my youngest sister had broke up with her boyfriend over Xmas week, and he now wanted to get back together. Sis asked my other sister and mom for advice (having already dismissed mine) in how to approach the relationship this time…and my mom very casually asked me to take the garbage out to the complex’s dumpster. I did so, and when I returned they had already begun talking about what to have for dinner. Yup…I was gotten rid of, just like a boy-child would’ve been. While the dysphoric part of me is actually a little happy about this, the majority of me just thinks it’s stupid and immature.

    Have a good day, all.

    Liked by 1 person

  3. Tarnished says:

    “Things would improve markedly for men if they treated women as men.”

    This is what my next post will be about. Hopefully ready sometime this week.

    Liked by 2 people

  4. Lon Spector says:

    There is no mechinical cure to the problem affecting the genders. Just disguard
    negativity, resentment, and throw away hate.
    “Love is not the opposite of hate. It is the absence of hate.”

    Like

  5. Liz says:

    When I was in highschool, the most graphic novels I ever read about sex came from the Christian bookstore. There was a whole series of books (I only read the first two and a half, before I became aware that even though the main character was “saved by Christ” at the end, the books seemed more geared toward titillation than salvation) on the subject, and they seemed marketed toward young adolescents. I was 13 when I read them, borrowed them from a neighbor friend (same age). Her parents bought them for her. Essentially the series was about young 12-13 year old girls becoming junkies and selling themselves into prostitution. Then, last chapter after being used in all sorts of awful, illegal ways, they “found Christ”. I’m not making this up. I don’t know if those books are around anymore.

    Like

  6. Liz says:

    I’m not sure I agree about the men/women thing, Swithy and Tarn. There are biological realities at play, and women are not men, and men are not women. And they don’t treat each other the same, and they never will. I think things “become better” when people accept biological realities rather than attempt to combat them (much like the socialist baby kennels for raising children were a rejection of biological realities).

    I think, actually, a great deal of problems between genders today happen due to the fact that men expect women to operate like men, and women expect the same from men…that’s the bromide isn’t it? That everyone is the same except some squat and others stand to pee?

    Like

  7. Farm Boy says:

    The difference being that the vast majority of women have the scheming behaviour innately, whereas there are few natural PUAs at the same level as most women.

    Another difference is that women fall over themselves to give the PUA what he wants

    Like

  8. Farm Boy says:

    Require payback of favours as they do with men.

    Outside of marriage, yes.
    Inside it is supposed to be different.

    Like

  9. Farm Boy says:

    Thus I concluded that Independent Thought = Difficult.

    This is quite a large generalization

    Like

  10. Farm Boy says:

    my youngest sister had broke up with her boyfriend over Xmas week, and he now wanted to get back together. Sis asked my other sister and mom for advice (having already dismissed mine) in how to approach the relationship this time

    A cynical person might suggest that the conversation might revolve on how to extract more from him this time around.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. Farm Boy says:

    I think, actually, a great deal of problems between genders today happen due to the fact that men expect women to operate like men, and women expect the same from men

    Dunno about that. I can expect honor and true friendship from guys.

    Like

  12. Liz says:

    I don’t think biological realities preclude women from acting honorably, or being true friends. It might preclude men from being friends to women, however (that’s been my experience from speaking with men in the sphere, and I’m assuming they’re being honest here).

    Like

  13. Spawny Get says:

    I was talking about day-to-day dealing with women, not wifeys. I’m sure if a wife discovers a distinct cooling in her day-to-day dealing with other men, she’ll come to appreciate her hubster more. As she should.

    Like

  14. Farm Boy says:

    I don’t think biological realities preclude women from acting honorably

    It may play a factor. But the real issue is the modern world.

    Liked by 2 people

  15. Farm Boy says:

    a wife discovers a distinct cooling in her day-to-day dealing with other men

    That happens often when she turns 35. It must not be fun.

    Like

  16. Liz says:

    I agree entirely with your specifics, Swithy: “Held them accountable as they do men. Require payback of favours as they do with men. Require them to tell the truth, as they do men they deal with. Stick to deals. Contribute more than sex. Show some ability to understand other people’s viewpoints…that kind of thing.”

    I just don’t agree with the first bit, “Treating women as men.”

    “That happens often when she turns 35. It must not be fun.”

    Dunno about that. I expect no problem with age 35 if men and women operate the same.

    Like

  17. Farm Boy says:

    I expect no problem with age 35 if men and women operate the same.

    But men and women are different, Nancy Hopkin’s views withstanding.

    Like

  18. Farm Boy says:

    Ex-SIL replied offhandedly, “Oh, he got a little last night.”

    “You’re learning, girl!” exclaimed MIL, and certain light bulbs began to glow under my hood, not so much about that women used sex as a weapon of control of men, but how and a bit about why.

    Manipulation can work in the short term, but usually fails miserably in the long term. It is tempting, but don’t so it.

    Liked by 2 people

  19. Spawny Get says:

    1) I saw my fiance’s parents’ marriage.
    2) I told her not to be like Mummy, cos I wasn’t like her Daddy
    3) She seemed not to be like Mummy
    4) We got married
    5) Maybe a year later…I could see the Mummy character developing. Couldn’t make her happy any more. Having only just finished her training and she starts showing signs of not really being into it.
    6)
    7)
    8)
    9)
    10) divorced, not seen her in over 15 years, not exchanged a word with her, done.

    People always say that a woman comes to look like her mother (not a great thing in wifey’s case TBH), but they seldom mention that that they can mentally change to become mummy too. Mummy got a great provider pack horse that she was running into a grave, without lifting a finger herself. Wifey, it seems, thought that’s how marriages worked. Not with me they don’t.

    If she’d been more honest with herself and me, we could have saved each other quite a bit of pain, and her father a bill for the wedding that he was still paying off by the time the divorce came through.

    Liked by 2 people

  20. Farm Boy says:

    Those chicks in the new banner look familiar. Probably I saw them somewhere on all of the Brit TV that I watch, Poirot, Sharpe’s, Dr. Who, Foyle’s War, etc.

    The pig looks like Winston Churchill. Perhaps a stogie would look right.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. Spawny Get says:

    I just don’t agree with the first bit, “Treating women as men.”

    If they’re not bringing anything from their feminine side that benefits me…they are effectively men at best. Unreliable men that can’t be held to their word. Ones that will bring in white knights to fight her side even when she has no side. Men cannot hold women to account, so they should be treated as children, effectively. Because that’s what their word is worth if you have a deal go wrong. The law is on their side, the cops too.

    If you’re a man getting treated well by women, good for you. Just be aware that that behaviour is purely on her whim. If and when she changes her mind, the world will celebrate her doing it.

    Liked by 2 people

  22. Spawny Get says:

    A cigar…hmmm. I like the way that you think. Although I should point out that the pig is callled (was called, it’s an ex-pig) ‘Empress’ in the show.

    ‘Poor old Empress’

    Actor Timothy Spall who plays Lord Clarence Emsworth in the show told the BBC he was “very upset to hear of the passing of the poor old Empress.”

    “That was her stage name, I never knew her real name, but that doesn’t mean I didn’t have a lot of affection for her,” he said.

    “She was by far the most flatulent member of the cast and believe me, she had a lot of competition.

    Liked by 1 person

  23. Liz says:

    “If they’re not bringing anything from their feminine side that benefits me…they are effectively men at best. Unreliable men that can’t be held to their word.”

    Fair enough, Swithy. But women do have many strengths. They simply don’t have the same type of strengths as men. My husband doesn’t treat women as men in his job, and women perform very admirably at many tasks…they just aren’t (generally) the same ones that men perform well at. He doesn’t treat them the same, and his interactions with them differ.

    I’ve experienced the same thing on the floor. Women aren’t like men…but they do have their strengths, and I’ve seen enough to know the feminine side of things benefits a lot of people. There aren’t a lot of male nurses or nurses aids, and the males perform very very well…but differently. ‘Nuff said.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Farm Boy says:

    I think that Spawny believes that integrity is the biggest issue.

    Hey, look, there is a post coming up on that.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Liz says:

    Well, per integrity….I don’t think that varies by gender.
    The only thing the varies are incentives. There are probably more incentives for women to lie or deceive, that I do agree with. They have more to gain from arrangement that privatizes gains and socialize costs.

    I don’t agree, however, that women are more prone, biologically, to prevaricate than men. Outcomes are based on incentives. Change the incentives and you see a completely different set of outcomes. Men can lie plenty.

    Liked by 1 person

  26. Spawny Get says:

    A man breaking his word will probably expect repercussions, a woman won’t (and she’ll likely be right if she’s not dealing with a tingle inducing bad-boy).

    Liked by 1 person

  27. Farm Boy says:

    Boys, at least in the old days were taught honor. It seems to naturally work well with them when done right. Perhaps due to the fact that hunting party members had to be able to trust each other.

    Liked by 1 person

  28. Sumo says:

    Well, this on topic stuff has gone on long enough, thank you.

    I sort of assumed that a “distaff” was a weapon of some kind. All my life, I’ve been a prolific reader, and when I was 9 or 10, I discovered the Prydain Chronicles by Lloyd (maybe some of you geezers remember that Disney movie The Black Cauldron? It was based on the first two books in the series). In one of the books, the main character encounters an old weaver woman who proceeds to teach him how to weave a cloak (dude was off trying to find himself or something; I haven’t re-read those books in at least a decade), and when he made a mistake, she would whack him with her distaff.

    Given that my grandmother and her sister were prone to smacking me, my grandfather, my great-uncle, and my uncles with whatever happened to be close at hand if any of us “stepped out of line”, it made sense to my 10 year brain that an old woman in a story would carry around an item specifically to hit people with.

    Liked by 1 person

  29. Sumo says:

    Oops – that should have been “The Prydain Chronicles by Lloyd ALEXANDER”…

    Like

  30. Yoda says:

    Bear hibernates he does.

    Like

  31. Liz says:

    From Yoda’s link above:
    “LGBTTQQFAGPBDSM persuasions, or, for those who need things spelled out, for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Transsexual, Queer, Questioning, Flexual, Asexual, Genderfuck, Polyamourous, Bondage/Disciple, Dominance/Submission, Sadism/Masochism”

    Woah….nelly! A fifteen letter acronym (if I’m counting right).
    Doesn’t a fifteen letter acronym sort of lose the point of…being and acronym?
    And what the heck is flexual? I’d look it up by my kids use this computer and I’m afraid…

    Like

  32. Spawny Get says:

    I must be out of touch. Last I saw it was LGBTLOLWTF. Some words are useful, much to my surprise, but fifteen letters is trying too hard to be a special snowflake, I suspect.

    Like

  33. Spawny Get says:

    Why not just ‘no hetero men allowed – the bastards’?

    Liked by 2 people

  34. Yoda says:

    LGBTTQQFAGPBDSM

    FAG part of acronym it is.
    Intentional this would be?
    This is a cigarette not.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. Liz says:

    Curiosity got to me and I looked it up:
    Flexual: Sexually attracted to two or more “genders.”
    Two or more genders? And what the fuck is genderfuck and how is it different from flexual or one of these other things?

    TIWWCHNT (This is why we can’t have nice things)

    Liked by 1 person

  36. Spawny Get says:

    Imagine my joy when I noticed that the latest antiGG stunt was called Crash Override Network…CON. Out of the mouths of SJWs comes the truth. I was shocked, shocked I tell you.

    Liked by 2 people

  37. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    I’m around but, being quiet. The topic of the original post is bugging the heck out of me. It would to any boy bear who has never married. With all that lined up against you, you’s be lucky to escape with your life.

    Yoda,
    It seems as if you’re a big fan of Ashe Schow. I am beginning to like her too.

    Liz,
    I tend to agree with you. Women are different. It would follow that motivations are different, leading to different methods of handling.
    The boys are more than a little wary of the girls. We have been burned before.
    Just because boys boys find girls cute and want to have sex with them, does not give them license to deal with us in an underhanded manner.

    Liked by 4 people

  38. Farm Boy says:

    http://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/origin-story-wonder-woman-180952710/

    The veil that has shrouded Wonder Woman’s past for seven decades hides beneath it a crucial story about comic books and superheroes and censorship and feminism. As Marston once put it, “Frankly, Wonder Woman is psychological propaganda for the new type of woman who, I believe, should rule the world.”

    Marston was a man of a thousand lives and a thousand lies. “Olive Richard” was the pen name of Olive Byrne, and she hadn’t gone to visit Marston—she lived with him. She was also the niece of Margaret Sanger, one of the most important feminists of the 20th century. In 1916, Sanger and her sister, Ethel Byrne, Olive Byrne’s mother, had opened the first birth-control clinic in the United States. They were both arrested for the illegal distribution of contraception. In jail in 1917, Ethel Byrne went on a hunger strike and nearly died.

    Olive Byrne met Marston in 1925, when she was a senior at Tufts; he was her psychology professor. Marston was already married, to a lawyer named Elizabeth Holloway. When Marston and Byrne fell in love, he gave Holloway a choice: either Byrne could live with them, or he would leave her. Byrne moved in. Between 1928 and 1933, each woman bore two children; they lived together as a family. Holloway went to work; Byrne stayed home and raised the children. They told census-takers and anyone else who asked that Byrne was Marston’s widowed sister-in-law

    Like

  39. Farm Boy says:

    New Post is up

    Liked by 1 person

  40. SFC Ton says:

    To my reckoning, the idea behind treating women like men is to break women of their stupidity so they will go back to wanting to be Women and treated as such.

    Women are biologically jammed up from having honor and integrity; there are reasons why the ancients thought so poorly of women, world.wide and across the ages. Modern man in all his vanity thinks he knows more or better but once again modern thinking is proving out to be false

    Liked by 1 person

Comments are closed.

%d bloggers like this: