Letting Men Down Easy (Repost from Tarnished Sophia)


There is an awesome post up over at The Private Man here. It also links to a AVfM forum where the original conversation/dialogue is taking place. I highly recommend reading both, as many of the comments are just as insightful as what PM has to say.

If you don’t have time to read the whole thing, it’s basically a different take on the idea of men being “too afraid of rejection” to ask women out. Namely, that most men are *not* afraid of getting rejected per se, but are instead afraid of the various social “punishments” that could be brought down on them for requesting a date the “incorrect” way. As I’ve never really dated, and have certainly never been in a social dating scene like a club or bar, I found this fascinating…and upon further reflection, entirely true. Most of these “punishments” were mentioned by my friends in high school as reasons for not asking X or Y woman out.

But there’s already good opportunities for discussion on that topic over at Private Man’s blog. What I want to do is show that women do not have to make men afraid of “punishment”, even when they’re still getting rejected. Original text is in regular font, mine is italicized.

The Fears/Punishments and How to Relieve Them

1. The fear that she will express disgust or shaming or laughing towards me.
Ladies, I know that you aren’t the ones who typically do the asking, so try to be more lenient towards those who are expected to. If a man you don’t find attractive asks for your number, or offers to buy you a drink, just politely decline. (Yes, this means don’t accept the free drink.) There is no reason whatsoever to laugh at or shame a man who is essentially saying “hey, you look like an attractive woman and I’d enjoy being in your company if you’d let me.” To do so is cruel and incredibly immature, so please…be an adult in these situations.

2. The fear that she might tell her friends that I am a “creep,” and that the women will start spreading the word amongst themselves.
What exactly is a creep? To me, a creep is a man or woman who engages in constant stalking behavior (always right next to you, butting into every conversation, attempting to follow your every move to the point they’ll wait outside the restroom for you) even after being politely but firmly told you aren’t interested. In some ways, it’s as though they are friendzoning themselves since you’ve already told them that your sexual interest is nil…yet they insist on forcing themselves into everything you do or say.

A creep is *not* a man or woman who stumbles over their words, accidentally touches you more than you’re comfortable with, is nervous, or is just generally bad at initiating conversation. Should someone like this attempt to ask you out, don’t go around to all your friends and inform them that “So-and-so is totally a creeper” without further explanation.

3. The fear that my advance will be felt to be dangerous, or that my interactions with women will be felt as potentially dangerous, because I did not observe some cautionary signal that women are looking for but I don’t happen to know.
Women have a secret code of subtle signals and body language, of this I’m certain. I can’t begin to talk about how many times I’ve had my mother, sisters, female classmates, or (prior to 8th grade when I finally said “no” to friendships with most other girls/women) female friends get pissed at me for something I said to them that was obviously *not* what they wanted to hear.

So yes, ladies…sometimes it’s extremely difficult to know what could set off alarms with you. I’m not talking about guys who are forceful or arrogant, or ones who persist in touching your hair, shoulders, arms, etc even after being unequivocally informed you do *not* want them to do that. No, I mean the type I spoke about in #2, the people like myself who aren’t wise to the subtleties of small, cautionary signals. If a guy such as this is making you uncomfortable, say something rather than letting it escalate. Don’t freak out, slap them, call the bouncer, or throw your drink on them…simply stay calm, take a step back to create a clear sign of physical distance, and look them in the eyes as you let them know “Hey, I’m enjoying our conversation, but I don’t like being touched that much. Can we keep more personal space between us?” If they get angry or insulting at this point, then yes…call security over. But I’m willing to bet that 90% of men will realize they were in the wrong, and change their behavior accordingly.

4. The fear that I will show up on the radar of white knights, who will then signal that I am “under watch,” warn women of my approach, interrupt future approaches, what have you.
I don’t have any experience with this at all, but I’m willing to accept that it happens: a man/group of men who are better at reading women’s cues decide to “come to the damsel’s rescue” and save her from Mr. Awkward. Not only does this create a sexist environment of “You’re too fragile/delicate to have a grown up conversation, so we’re stepping in”, but also makes a tense or potentially hostile situation out of a simple misunderstanding. Granted, masculine help may be appreciated if some louse is purposefully sticking his hands down your shirt or trying to physically corner you…actual jerks who don’t respect women *do* exist, and it’s up to everyone to inform them they aren’t welcome.

But if you have a guy who’s on the autism scale, has social anxiety, stutters, or is bad at taking the hint that you’re not interested, the answer is *not* to flutter your eyelashes at some random strong male and ask him to “take care of” the guy who is “bothering you”. (I’ve personally seen this happen in my college dining area, twice.) Using others as proxies is another immature quality that needs to be firmly squashed. Instead, just be direct, honest, and rational when you state that you aren’t wanting to be with them. This may require you to use more concise wording than you’re used to, but if it defuses an uncomfortable situation without involving others, isn’t it worth it?

5. The fear that I will lose social status, be laughed at, or shamed before the local community.
Not much more to say on this point that hasn’t been at least somewhat covered in the previous 4, other than to say don’t shame people unnecessarily. If you had a terrible date, it could be for any number of reasons; lack of chemistry, no sexual/physical attraction, no interests in common, severely different political/religious beliefs, he uses a PC/you use a Mac…the list goes on. But that doesn’t mean your friend Clarisa or cousin Diane wouldn’t be a good match with Mr. Failed Date Guy. Unless something horrible about him came up in conversation (he kicks small animals for fun, is a member of the KKK, or is in favor of FGM, for example) why tell every woman you know that he’s “terrible for them” when *you* are not them? In other words, don’t kill a possible relationship for someone else just because it didn’t work out with you.

Other Fears:

6. The fear that she will make up in her mind that not only is she not interested now, but that she will decide that she will NEVER be interested.
Sadly guys, I don’t believe there’s anything to do about this one. While stories do exist where people grow to love one another by simply hanging out or working together, I think that there still needs to be an initial attraction there. It can be something small, like a good haircut, nice smile, strong hands, and so on…but it has to be present. For example, even when I had suppressed my libido into nothing and couldn’t stand physical contact from any humans, I *still* found my (not-even-a-friend-at-that-point) FwB’s scent to be amazing. Eight years later it’s still amazing, but I find many other things about him to be sexy as well. My point is that a spark has to be there to create a flame, and it could just be bad luck that a date partner just doesn’t see one.
Men can greatly increase their chances by presenting well though. Clean, non-threadbare clothes are a good start as well as showering on a daily basis. Try using a non-scented deodorant and don’t wear cologne, since they inhibit a woman’s ability to pick up your natural pheromones. Brush your teeth right before going out, and gargle with a mouthwash to prevent bacteria from getting out of control. If you have problems with actual bad breath or plaque build up, there are inexpensive toothpastes that do wonders at preventing these symptoms. Get a nice haircut that flatters your natural features…an actual barbershop helps greatly with this. Once again, the Private Man has many good tips on how to become better at speaking, grooming, and just improving your social charisma.

To recap:
Women, don’t be doormats in actual dangerous or uncomfortable situations, but also remember to be understanding, respectful, and kind to the guys you are rejecting. They are people with feelings just like yourself.
Men, be understanding if a woman says she’s not interested, and make sure you are presentable when attempting to score a date.

Oh, and before anyone asks; Yes, I do get asked out at my job a lot. Being a good-looking, friendly woman in a comic shop will do that. However, as I am not looking to get my sexual partner # above 1 anytime soon, and have a good casual thing going with my FwB, I do reject all advances I’m offered. How? By smiling a real smile, thanking the guy for such a nice compliment, giving them a quick hug or holding their hand as we talk (if I can stand physical contact that day), and a short explanation that I’m not in the market right now. I’m 29 currently, and started getting asked out at work when I was 17. In all those years, I’ve never had a man get angry, overly upset, or threatening due to my rejection…probably because most men don’t act that way. Anyway, that’s what I do, but everyone should come up with their own method of declining, so long as it’s not spiteful or mean.

Note: This post orginally appeared on my personal blog last year. I’m reposting it here due to Farm Boy’s previous LJBF post, as the topics are similar and might make for better discussion together.

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Posted in HowTo, Tarn
125 comments on “Letting Men Down Easy (Repost from Tarnished Sophia)
  1. Spawny Get says:

    Thanks Tarn, certainly adds to the discussion.

    Liked by 1 person

  2. Tarnished says:

    It seemed like a good response to Liz’s question regarding what single females do when they need to turn down advances. I am really hoping that Bloom, Molly, and Alana will weigh in too.

    Perhaps even get some conversation going from the males of our group…Guys, if you’re willing to share, how have you been let down in the past?

    Like

  3. Lon Spector says:

    If women frequent singles bars, don’t they EXPECT to be approached by men?
    It takes an enourmos courage for an autistic man to approach a person, but let’s face it,
    the objective for most of these guys is to get laid.
    Personally, I believe that the old days of “arrainged marriages” were better. It was more
    fairer for creeps back then. Marrying for “love” is a recent invention. Most marriages
    were business transactions, and maybe they still are.
    If you want to compare women’s attitudes about “love” vs. men’s you should listen to
    the song “Summer Loving,” from the play “Grease.”
    The boy, (Played by John Travalta) boasts to him male friends about his “conquest”
    (Played by Olivia Newton John) He claims that the girl is “crazy for me.” His male friend’s
    sing: “Tell me more, tell me more did you get very far?” The girl’s friend’s sing: “Tell me
    more, tell me more like does he have a car?”
    That’s how the two genders used to view courtship, but then again I’m from a bygone era.
    I’ve never known what it’s like to be “shot down” because most females never wanted
    to be in physical proximity with me to begin with.
    Thankfully, I discovered Astrology which explains percisely why this is so, even if nothing
    can be done about it.

    Like

  4. Tarnished says:

    I wish I could give you more information, Lon. I’ve never been to a bar, so I can’t comment on what the atmosphere is like or how the patrons of either sex act.

    Like

  5. Good post. I have a few times over 20+ years of time experienced the true overly aggressive, won’t take no for an answer and/or gets too physical wo invitation style creep but they are truly the exception, at least in my experience. I agree there is no reason to act like someone approaching or asking one out who for whatever reason isn’t one’s type is some kind of affront. Be gracious, decline politely, with respect. No need to act like a fourth grave girl about it. I think sometimes women (including myself on occasion) will not be clear enough, trying to spare feelings, but it seems to make things worse. So clear but polite is good too.

    Liked by 3 people

  6. blurkel says:

    Speaking from experience, I’ve lived through all of these scenarios offered up by The Private Man. But the solution offered (“get better social skills”) for most of them ignores the fact that one can’t learn new social skills if one ends up becoming the butt of the joke for trying. Imagine the abuse if one attempts to practice Game on a female familiar with that strategy! Most of us only have so many social groups we can practice upon, and one’s reputation becomes how one is seen by them.

    I don’t happen to like Game, one of the “solutions” The Private Man promotes. I find it dishonest and manipulative, and any successes one might have following that strategy begin on a foundation of shifting sands due to abusing trust. It’s hard enough trying to find honest people, much less honest women. To add being manipulated into a social contract of any variety leads to immediate hostility-fueled rejection in future oppotunities by the aggrieved party.

    For me, the price of sex has become far too expensive in relation to the satisfaction derived. I am no longer willing to expend any energy on any woman who doesn’t display desiring behavior, as actions mean so much more than do words. “Social skills” are all about saying the “right” words at the “right” time in the “right” way, and only open the door to LJBF at the first miscue. To be blunt, intercourse the penguin! The risk is too great for the pittance offered as the reward.

    Like

  7. Tarnished says:

    “…and any successes one might have following that strategy begin on a foundation of shifting sands due to abusing trust.”

    Quite true, and this is what confuses me most about the use of Game. There’s entire websites that give advice to men who are in committed LTRs or even marriages on how to continue Gaming their significant others. While their comments and anecdotal evidence suggests that it works in their relationships, I’m baffled by the fact that both male and female commenters wholeheartedly believe *this is perfectly fine*. Neither men nor women generally deserve to be treated in such ways, some of which border on actual mental abuse.

    Perhaps you and I are simply too “blue pill” to understand? Either that, or we have our moral standards and refuse to deviate from them.

    Like

  8. blurkel says:

    Perhaps you and I are simply too “blue pill” to understand?

    I don’t believe Blue Pill plays a role in understanding the adversity of Game. All one needs to do is put one’s self in the role of Game target and see how one likes it.

    Either that, or we have our moral standards and refuse to deviate from them.

    I’m more inclined to agree with this one. Being the object of ridicule, disrespect, and/or abuse tends to make me not want to inflict such harm on other unless they REALLY deserve it – and that is very rare. Most people aren’t worth that kind of effort.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. theasdgamer says:

    Best response is “sorry, not interested.”

    Like

  10. theasdgamer says:

    Neither men nor women generally deserve to be treated in such ways, some of which border on actual mental abuse.

    You say. When women behave like insane children so often, they are to be treated like adults? Sounds irrational to me.

    Perhaps you and I are simply too “blue pill” to understand?

    Exactly. You fail to appreciate the true nature of women.

    Either that, or we have our moral standards and refuse to deviate from them.

    No, see above.

    Like

  11. theasdgamer says:

    @ blurkel

    “Perhaps you and I are simply too “blue pill” to understand? ”

    I don’t believe Blue Pill plays a role in understanding the adversity of Game. All one needs to do is put one’s self in the role of Game target and see how one likes it.

    Which is the fundamental mistake many men make of thinking that a woman will react like a man.

    See my post about Sexual Macrodynamics. Women like to be engaged. You lot expect reason and respect to work with women when they really want to be dominated.

    Like

  12. theasdgamer says:

    By “engaged”, I mean sexually engaged–innuendos, making passes, etc. The domination ensures her that you are a man who is stronger and smarter than she is. Makes you appear more masculine to her.

    Like

  13. blurkel says:

    Spoken like a true self-appointed alpha male.

    I don’t have time for anyone who needs someone else to run their lives for them. I have enough trouble running my own. So if a woman doesn’t act as you suggest I think she should, she isn’t worth my time – and she doesn’t get it.

    Liked by 2 people

  14. Tarnished says:

    I don’t think Blurkel and I care for women of this type. If that means he goes MGTOW and I never have a female partner, then so be it…at least we won’t go against our code of ethics.

    Liked by 2 people

  15. Cill says:

    Tarn, you mentioned “the averages Cill found in one of his PPP posts”

    The average N for women were:

    Australia: 7
    UK: 7
    NZ: 20
    U.S.A: 4 (National Survey of Family Growth http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics.htm)
    World: 7

    I’ve given the link for U.S.A stats because it’s the most pertinent to the discussion. I could dig out the other links if requested.

    Liked by 1 person

  16. Cill says:

    Damn, I’ve put them on the wrong thread.

    Like

  17. Yoda says:

    Lifetime averages they would be?
    Or current counts they are?

    Like

  18. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Yoda,
    I believe they are all lifetime averages. I have my own qualms from the CDC study. That is also covereed on the previous thread.

    Like

  19. Yoda says:

    If lifetimes they are then include women from the pre-slut era they might.
    Pull average down this could do.

    Liked by 1 person

  20. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Yoda,
    I don’t have anything to back me up on this but, I think if we got sound data to plot the N count curve, we would have two bells, one for normies and one for sluts.

    Liked by 1 person

  21. Tarnished says:

    Fuzzie,

    That would actually make a lot of sense. People like myself, Liz, etc. may very well be bringing the curve down by a significant amount, whereas if we did a graphic for people of N 5 crowd, it’d probably be very different.

    Like

  22. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Tarn,
    Thanks for the sentiment in “Letting the guys down easy”. That it for another day, as in Obi Wan and his light saber.I don’t think the Golden Rule is given much considration anymore when it comes to rejecting men. If anything, it seems the opposite.

    Liked by 2 people

  23. Cill says:

    By way of support for Fuzzy’s contention:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/7629445/Study-highlights-casual-sex-among-students

    The University of Otago research surveyed the sexual health of 2922 students aged 17 to 24 from NZ universities nationwide.

    Number of sex partners in the last 12 months:
    At least three: 20%
    between 10 and 20: 10%
    more than 20: 3%

    However, 57 per cent reported only one sexual partner in the last 12 months.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Tarnished says:

    Interesting find, Cill.
    Seems there’s a wide range of data, so averages might not be the best way to portray the information…

    Like

  25. Cill says:

    Yoda, the stats I gave were lifetime N

    Like

  26. blurkel says:

    According to the US statistics, I’m only 2.9 partners behind for the past 12 months. Maybe I can trade the cancellation of my marital sex for the .9 and round it up to 3 partners behind?

    12 month statistic: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nsfg/key_statistics/n.htm#number12months

    Unfortunately, lifetime statistics appear to end at age 44. I guess that indicates male menopause is real and widespread?

    In case you are a numbers wonk: http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr036.pdf

    Like

  27. Cill says:

    Tarn, Choicy’s notes record that he saw PPP#1 on another evening later in the same week “hive off with 3 different jokers”. That means her minimum numbers for 2 days of that week were:

    6 sex sessions
    4 sex partners (Choicy plus 3 to 5 others)

    Those were just the 2 days he happened to see her. There may have been more during that week.

    I read interviews in a NZ magazine of women who claimed 100+ lifetime sex partners. It’s not difficult to comprehend how such huge N could be reached by individual women. PPP#1 (aged “mid 20s”) might well have 100+ N already.

    Liked by 1 person

  28. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Cill,
    The thought occurred to me, what does a PPP do when she exhausts the local supply of men? This is a realistic scenario. There can’t be that many men nightclubbing even in a metro area,
    I can just imagine the scream heard round the world. 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  29. Farm Boy says:

    A creep is *not* a man or woman who stumbles over their words, accidentally touches you more than you’re comfortable with, is nervous, or is just generally bad at initiating conversation.

    But it is. This is how one keeps non-sexy men at bay.

    Though women and the government still want them to pay taxes.

    Like

  30. Farm Boy says:

    Here is perhaps the biggest first-world problem for young women.

    “How do I attract the men that I want to attract without attracting those that I don’t”?

    Liked by 1 person

  31. Farm Boy says:

    Women, don’t be doormats in actual dangerous or uncomfortable situations, but also remember to be understanding, respectful, and kind to the guys you are rejecting. They are people with feelings just like yourself.

    And also understand that they have to do the work and take the risk. Women just have to sit there.

    Like

  32. Farm Boy says:

    The thought occurred to me, what does a PPP do when she exhausts the local supply of men?

    Become a lesbian?
    Get knocked up on purpose?
    Claim victim status?
    Some combination?

    Like

  33. Farm Boy says:

    Were the N stats means or medians?

    Like

  34. Farm Boy says:

    I agree there is no reason to act like someone approaching or asking one out who for whatever reason isn’t one’s type is some kind of affront.

    Women should be happy about this. They are wanted.

    As for men…

    Liked by 1 person

  35. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Farm Boy,
    Poor PPPs! I think moving would be a good idea. A whole new set of guys to work through.

    As for your first world problem, in the past, the solution was for the girl to get married. No more decisions about dating.

    Like

  36. Farm Boy says:

    Here is a question.

    Would anybody want a woman who delivers nuclear rejection (or one somewhat close) to be the mother of their children?

    Or anybody’s children?

    Liked by 2 people

  37. Farm Boy says:

    But the solution offered (“get better social skills”) for most of them ignores the fact that one can’t learn new social skills if one ends up becoming the butt of the joke for trying.

    One has to internalize the changes. This takes time. Developing skills could be useful for other things in a man’s life. But one has to wonder if it is worthwhile just to do it for the sake of women.

    Liked by 1 person

  38. Tarnished says:

    “I read interviews in a NZ magazine of women who claimed 100+ lifetime sex partners.”

    😯

    “Would anybody want a woman who delivers nuclear rejection (or one somewhat close) to be the mother of their children?”

    Absolutely not. Heck, there’s people I know who I pray don’t ever procreate.

    “Were the N stats means or medians?”

    Mean. I’m pretty sure finding the median and mode would yield some very telling information.

    Like

  39. Tarnished says:

    “Women just have to sit there.”

    But should they, in this new age of equality? I’m only being partially sarcastic. There’s no legitimate reason for the burden of rejection/acceptance to fall solely on male shoulders. The one date I’ve been on in the past 10+ years was initiated by me…and yes, it was nerve-wracking and made me very nervous, but it didn’t kill me.

    Like

  40. molly says:

    I get a lot of #4 in the post. I don’t want to talk about #4 tho. I’m answering Tarn’s question “what single females do when they need to turn down advances”

    I’m not part of the dating scene and not the crew. I don’t do bars and nightclubs much at all. When men ask me out, every case is different. My rule is, “try to put yourself into his skin. If you’d asked the question he asked you right now, what rejection would be okay?”

    I don’t want to suggest he’s not good enough for me.

    I say, “I am already committed.” The way my mother taught me, I’m not on the open market. I am already committed to the type of man I’d say “Yes” to. I know who they are and have actually seen one or two IRL.

    It’s better than suggesting he’s not up to scratch.

    Liked by 1 person

  41. Tarnished says:

    Molly,

    I’ve said things like that, but I’ve also had guys who either;
    1. See this as a challenge to steal me away or attempt to impress me enough that I’ll “drop the loser I’m with” as one guy so charmingly put it, or
    2. Take my statement of commitment to “reassure” me they don’t mind sharing.

    Very odd behavior, I must say. 😕
    Nowadays I simply do what I detailed above.

    Like

  42. Cill says:

    Women claiming 100+ N. Such numbers are indeed claimed by some of both sexes. This chap has done some interesting graphs:
    http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2015/01/gss_sf.html

    Like

  43. Cill says:

    Note this in http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/2015/01/gss_sf.html (Bears up Tarn’s point that averages may give a false impression, and the bear’s point at 12:15 am.):

    “Notice: The most common number of lifetime partners for both genders is 1! This is not an artifact of the binning, because the “1 partner” response is in its own bin.”

    Like

  44. Tarnished says:

    I’ve never been to a bar or nightclub. The latter doesn’t sound like something I’d enjoy at all, but I’m tempted to go to a bar for the experience. The only thing stopping me is the fact I might accidentally give off a vibe of “waiting to be approached”, and wasting some random guy’s time doesn’t appeal to me.

    Like

  45. blurkel says:

    “How do I attract the men that I want to attract without attracting those that I don’t?”

    Make the first move on the ones you want. Why isn’t this obvious?

    Liked by 1 person

  46. blurkel says:

    “Women just have to sit there.”

    Then they should not expect a man to aproach them.

    Liked by 1 person

  47. blurkel says:

    In a world of over 7 billiion people, there is always another town for a PPP to explore connections.

    Like

  48. blurkel says:

    “Women should be happy about this. They are wanted. As for men…”

    …they would be wise to wait for a woman to make the first move and show some interest.

    Liked by 1 person

  49. molly says:

    Sometimes I end up in a bar or nightclub unintended. Like, my friends suddenly chose to walk in and if I hesitate I’m alone in the streets so I walk in with them. I don’t enjoy it. It is full of acting and false. Especially the women. Yeah and I don’t like having to reject the men. I ditched some of my friends over this.

    Liked by 1 person

  50. blurkel says:

    “But one has to wonder if it is worthwhile just to do it for the sake of women.”

    Not now. Not ever.

    Internalizing the changes means one can equally end up like Elliot Rodger as Brad Pitt. Feedback is vital to any real changes, and a constant barrage of rejection doesn’t lead to success.

    Like

  51. Tarnished says:

    Take it easy on me, Blurkel!
    My “like” finger is getting tired. 😉

    Liked by 1 person

  52. Tarnished says:

    I’m sorry, Molly. 😦

    Like

  53. blurkel says:

    Ah, the Onion! Nothing like going straight to the source, Tarn!

    To put this into some kind of managable, I took an arbitrary age (75), divided that into 9 million, then divided that by 365 days a year to get the amount per day. So PER DAY, I’d have to have had imaginary sex only 328.8 times.

    I’ll have to take up chain smoking to handle THAT much sex!

    Allowing that no one is awake 24 hours a day, I kept it simple by making that very assumption to avoid variances in sleep duration as I again reduced the number of imaginary sex partners I’d have in an hour. That would be a much more realizable 13.7 partners per hour. In other words, each imaginary lover would get 4 minutes and 22.8 seconds per imaginary sex act. As I recall, 4 minutes is something close to the average duration of a typical sex act to climax.

    Bring on the Blue Pill. Not that one! I meant the Viagra!

    I’ll be here all week! Try the veal!

    Like

  54. blurkel says:

    Giving me the finger, are you Tarn? Well, I’m about to toddle off to slumberland as it’s getting late here in Southern California, so I can promise you a break!

    Like

  55. molly says:

    Where Fuzzie? 🐻
    See if he detects the scent of food: 🌯
    (just one for starters)

    Like a starter husband 😀
    Just kidding F. Wuzzie!
    🐻 🙄

    Like

  56. molly says:

    Too late. He hibernates
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Like

  57. molly says:

    🐻 zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 🐻
    lol

    Like

  58. molly says:

    This always happens. I come home from work, and before you know it they’re all sound asleep! 😦
    However…
    It’s blazing sun and a fit healthy person like me should be out. I’m out!
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZAP!
    (Molly gone)

    Like

  59. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Molly!
    My apologiews. I didn’t mean to ignore you.It is 😦 close to my bedtime.
    Have you ever considered telling these men that you reject that you alredy have a bear for a boyfriend? That they don’t want him in the club because he orders a keg and a straw?
    🌯 🌯 🌯 🐻 🙄

    Like

  60. molly says:

    Fuzzie they wouldn’t believe me. Have the rest of your ration before you nod off:
    🌯 🌯 🌯
    Now you go to sleep. Sometimes us young people need to look after you older ones, eh.
    I want to see your round ears the only things visible above the sheets.
    zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
    Peace. Dream of teddy bears 🐻
    Now I’m for a swim! 🙂

    Like

  61. molly says:

    Are you okay Fuzzie?
    (if you’re asleep you won’t reply, which is a good sign)

    Like

  62. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Molly,
    zzzzFurbieszzzzzzzzOrcaszzzzzzzzzFurbieszzzzzzzzzzzzOrcaszzzzzzzzzzHoneyzzzzz

    Like

  63. molly says:

    Fuzzie
    Hahahahahahahahahahaha!

    Like

  64. molly says:

    Good one F. Wuzzie Bear (Esq) 😉

    Like

  65. missattempts says:

    Isn’t it only proper that the “tough” guy’s get the girl’s?
    After all, if they’re not brave enough to approach, how would they handle the other
    challenging aspects of the relationship?

    Like

  66. Yoda says:

    Isn’t it only proper that the “tough” guy’s get the girl’s?

    If only reproduction you do desire, yes this might be

    If civilization desired it is, no the answer is.

    Liked by 1 person

  67. Tarnished says:

    Thanks for the songs, Lon. 🙂

    I’d say no to your question, because a relationship shouldn’t be a challenge.

    Liked by 1 person

  68. theasdgamer says:

    Not only should women let men down easy, but men need to be able to get on with their lives after the let down. I have a new post up along those lines.

    Like

  69. theasdgamer says:

    @ Spawny

    New post is up – politics I’m afraid

    Didn’t your mum teach you not to use four-letter words?

    Like

  70. Spawny Get says:

    Sorry Gamer, you’re perfectly right to pick me up on my language.

    Like

  71. Spawny Get says:

    Gamer, please feel free to provide a link to your posts, I don’t mind at all

    Like

  72. blurkel says:

    @ missattempts

    You might be touching on a cause of domestic abuse with your observation.

    Like

  73. Spawny Get says:

    Not that it particularly matters (both commenting characters are welcome – official) Lon and MissAttempts are widely suspected to be the same person. As I said, I don’t mind, but it might confuse those not aware of this.

    Like

  74. theasdgamer says:

    @ Spawny

    Sorry Gamer, you’re perfectly right to pick me up on my language.

    C’est droll.

    Like

  75. theasdgamer says:

    Pardon my French.

    Liked by 1 person

  76. theasdgamer says:

    @ Spawny

    Not that it particularly matters (both commenting characters are welcome – official) Lon and MissAttempts are widely suspected to be the same person. As I said, I don’t mind, but it might confuse those not aware of this.

    I’m confused about why I might be confused. And concerned.

    Concerned GamerTroll

    Like

  77. Spawny Get says:

    Gamer, it’s a conspiracy and they’re ALL out to get you

    Liked by 1 person

  78. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    Tell ‘im your not interested. Don’t bother telling him why. You probably don’t know anyway.

    Like

  79. theasdgamer says:

    @ Spawny

    Gamer, it’s a conspiracy and they’re ALL out to get you

    Merde. Scheiss. Oh, poop, pardon my glossolalia.

    Liked by 1 person

  80. Tarnished says:

    How would someone not know? Also, not giving a reason sounds very harsh…like you’re just automatically disqualifying him “because”.

    Like

  81. Yoda says:

    Don’t bother telling him why. You probably don’t know anyway.,

    Very possible this is.
    In olden days young women were taught what to look for.
    Now young women on their own criteria they do develop.
    Not an improvement this is.
    Post about his general topic I will.

    Liked by 2 people

  82. theasdgamer says:

    I’m in such a good mood because my new post helped me along with making my dance partner an ex. Next!

    Being concerned and stuff, I just realized that another married woman dancer has arranged a meetup with me this weekend. Huh. She asked where I would be going and then decided that she’d be there, too. She’s the one who led me in dirty dancing last week and we danced pivots last night, which involve thigh-to-thigh contact

    Color me…concerned. Time for The Chat ™ again. Guess I’ll be very direct about it. Married women are not on my menu. I will flirt with them, but see the previous sentence…five or six times. And no more nakies of married broads emailed to me, please.

    Like

  83. Yoda says:

    How would someone not know?

    Unicorn you are.
    Many people think not.

    Like

  84. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    Tarn,
    Yes it is harsh. But better to send him towards the players than send him down a rabbit hole. Otherwise, the beta orbiter gets stuck trying to be nicer.

    Liked by 1 person

  85. Yoda says:

    Many people think not in general they do.
    Not about if Tarn a Unicorn she is.

    Liked by 1 person

  86. Tarnished says:

    CP,

    Do people at bars actually become beta orbiters? How, unless they know you outside of that location? 😕

    Like

  87. Tarnished says:

    Yoda,

    I don’t know if I should be considered a unicorn, honestly. Wouldn’t a true unicorn be a female-bodied + female-minded person? Molly seems like more of one…

    Liked by 1 person

  88. Yoda says:

    A Furby she would be.

    Liked by 2 people

  89. Tarnished says:

    True!
    So some men like nice feminine women (Furbies) and some like nice unfeminine women (Unicorns).

    Liked by 1 person

  90. Tarnished says:

    Question:
    If someone doesn’t know why they are not attracted to a man…why do they say no? Other than simply not being interested in a relationship, which would disqualify *every* man who approaches, there has to be some reasoning going on.

    Like

  91. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    Tarn, you misunderestimate how important sex is to men that haven’t had their senses dulled by age or good fortune.

    Like

  92. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    Tarn, it is entirely possible to know that you are not attracted to someone without knowing why. Conversely, it is entirely possible to be attracted to someone without knowing why. Witness women’s mating strategies.

    Like

  93. blurkel says:

    Do people at bars actually become beta orbiters? How, unless they know you outside of that location?

    Boy Howdy can people at bars become beta orbiters!

    Back in my bar band days, one young woman hung around with me when I played a certain place. I doubt she ever gave me her real name, and she wasn’t keen on my touching her in any way, but I suspect I was the “safe” choice to keep other guys away. Being in the band meant that I couldn’t focus attention on her so she had time to work out what she’d want to discuss next.

    The band ended up playing a different bar in another part of town, and guess who came in one night! Turned out she lived close, saw the band name on the marquee, and dropped in to see if I was still part of the band. We took a short stroll outside on a break, and she wanted to get together the next day.

    Next day came, and what she wanted was a ride to find the car she shared with her brother. Once she found it, she thanked me and sent me on my way. Never saw her again after that.

    Considering how this went, we might very well have been beta orbiting each other as neither of us made any serious moves on the other. I didn’t see any real interest on her part, so I played it with her in the friend zone as I’m sure she had me placed.

    This is but one sordid tale in The Naked City. There are many others.

    Like

  94. blurkel says:

    Wouldn’t a true unicorn be a female-bodied + female-minded person?

    Not at all! There are large herds of them in cities across the world, big and small. Much more rare to have a female-bodied+male-minded person who actually likes guys.

    Liked by 1 person

  95. molly says:

    Tarn did you receive an email from a real unicorn on the 16th, and another on the 24th? 😉

    Like

  96. blurkel says:

    “Tarn, you misunderestimate how important sex is to men that haven’t had their senses dulled by age or good fortune.”

    If anyone needs to know what this means in more detail, check out this article from the Good Puppy-man Project:

    Is Great Sex Finished For Aging Boomer Men? by Ken Solin
    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ken-solin/great-sex-boomer-men_b_6738306.html

    [Women] preferred to be sexual with me in the context of an emotionally intimate relationship. …. Nothing arouses me as quickly and effectively as emotional intimacy…

    I HAD to see what this is supposed to mean!

    Dame Barbara Cartland once wrote: “Among men, sex sometimes results in intimacy; among women, intimacy sometimes results in sex.” ( http://www.uncommonhelp.me/articles/emotional-intimacy-in-relationships/ )

    So I guess the secret to great sex is for a man to become more feminine, and forget the physical part in favor of what eHarmony calls “Feeling Messages” ( http://www.eharmony.com/dating-advice/relationships/the-secret-to-emotional-intimacy/ ) and once in a while something good might happen?

    Calling Beta Orbiter Control!

    Like

  97. molly says:

    “the secret to great sex is for a man to become more feminine”
    O.M.G… No!

    Liked by 1 person

  98. theasdgamer says:

    the secret to great sex is for a man to become more feminine

    Ah, time to go shopping for a bra and panties in my size. But do I try them on in a ladies dressing room?

    Getting my inner Anglo Lord on.

    Like

  99. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    Don’t act all affronted, Molly. It’s a world your vagina sisters have created. We’re just responding to incentives. Hopefully you’ll find someone that’ slow on the uptake.

    Like

  100. Tarnished says:

    CP,

    Why do you say that? I frequent a number of incel blogs and forums…it’s obvious to anyone who can read just how important sex is to men. It’s very important to me as well. Almost absurdly so.

    Like

  101. Tarnished says:

    CP,

    I’ll take your word for it. The idea of not knowing why you’re attracted to someone isn’t something I’ve ever experienced…I’ll trust yours.

    Like

  102. Tarnished says:

    Thanks for the explanation, Blurkel. I was thinking more of someone being a beta orbiter only for the duration of 1 night and it just seemed very strange. The way your situation worked out makes a lot more sense!

    Liked by 1 person

  103. Tarnished says:

    Blurkel,

    Why wouldn’t a male-minded person like guys? Don’t most men have male friends and no/few female friends?

    Like

  104. Tarnished says:

    Molly,

    I’m not sure…my email has been acting very weird these last 2 weeks. I’ll check all my folders after work today.

    Liked by 1 person

  105. Cautiously Pessimistic says:

    I hesitate to play the unicorn card, but yeah. Sex is more important than that. At least until the whoremoans wear off.

    Like

  106. Tarnished says:

    All,

    Wow…no, men shouldn’t become more feminine. The only time that’s acceptable is if they’re the reverse of me, or just have more stereotypically “feminine” habits. Men and women have different minds 99% of the time!

    Liked by 2 people

  107. Tarnished says:

    Vaguely Sexy Talk
    Sex for me is like air. If I don’t have a orgasm at least once a day, I feel lethargic and less happy/energized. Obviously this isn’t possible with the 2 hours between my lover and I, but we visit each other twice a week…it’s *just* enough. Sex isn’t just 15 minutes of, well, sex. It’s hours of stark intimacy and pure pleasure.

    This is why I’d like to be able to have casual sex someday…so I can share these amazing sensations with those who have trouble experiencing them. So far, it’s not something I’m capable of yet. 😦

    Like

  108. blurkel says:

    Why wouldn’t a male-minded person like guys? Don’t most men have male friends and no/few female friends?

    You left out a very important part of my comment. Unlike you, Tarn, those who are female-bodied + male-minded in my experience tend to be lesbians. I happen to work with some who are just one of the guys, so to speak, and we get along fine. No hint of hostility.

    Otherwise, to take your reply at face value, you would be entirely correct.

    Liked by 1 person

  109. Tarnished says:

    Ah, I see. Didn’t think of that.
    I’m not a lesbian (obviously), but I am attracted to women a decent amount. My first kiss was with a girl in my science class in high school, believe it or not. It’s a small fantasy of mine to be the “guy” in a relationship with a lovely, feminine lady.

    Too bad there’s so few around, and even fewer that aren’t feminists.

    Like

  110. Yoda says:

    The bear hibernates he does.

    Liked by 1 person

  111. molly says:

    The bear can be encouraged with :burroti: :burroti: :burroti: :burroti:
    A little kindness goes a long way. 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

  112. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Yoda,
    I want to say something profound.

    It’s tangential but, here is COTWA’s report of feminist law student pushback over professors’s letter of protest over breakdown of due process.
    The feminists would throw the Constitution out the window to persecute, not misspelled, men. These are law students?
    http://www.cotwa.info/2015/02/angry-penn-law-student-lashes-out-at.html

    Like

  113. molly says:

    Oops 🌯 🌯 🌯 🌯
    Sorry 🐻 🙄

    Like

  114. molly says:

    “The Penn students’ puerile rant isn’t deserving of serious or extended refutation. It just sounds like they can’t stand the fact that respected progressives are finally realizing that feminist advocacy is no substitute for fair policy.”
    Good.

    Liked by 1 person

  115. blurkel says:

    It’s a small fantasy of mine to be the “guy” in a relationship with a lovely, feminine lady.

    That’s quite a revelation!

    Along those lines, there is a movie which might interest you. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_Nobbs It stars Glenn Close as an Irish woman who lives as a man, who encounters others living lives of similar complexity. It starts a bit slow, but give it a chance and it grows on you. Your small fantasy is part of the plot, in a couple of ways.

    Liked by 1 person

  116. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Molly,
    🌯 🌯 🌯 🐻 🙄

    Those students are studying Law. That they would be so partisan as to disregard the Constitution in order to prosecute men proves that they are not worthy of graduating. Quite the opposite, they should all be tossed out on their collective ears.

    Liked by 3 people

  117. Tarnished says:

    That sounds awesome, Blurkel. 😀
    Wish I could do such things.

    Liked by 1 person

  118. molly says:

    Fuzzie they will be walking violations of the Sixth Amendment to the United States Constitution. 😦

    Liked by 1 person

  119. Farm Boy says:

    There is a new post

    Like

  120. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Molly
    It has been so long since I read it that I had to look it up.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

    It does lead to the question of all these institutions having extra legal judgements, what has been overlooked is that the accused’s education is at risk and that is a property interest.

    Liked by 1 person

  121. theasdgamer says:

    @ Tarn

    It’s a small fantasy of mine to be the “guy” in a relationship with a lovely, feminine lady.

    You might have a problem dealing with the constant 5h1t-tests and the cheating. Not to mention getting treated like a beta, which is what typically happens to the “guy” in lesbian relationships.

    In the past, I’ve always got on best with girly-girls, but lately tomboys have had a hankering for me. Fine bodies, but tomboyish attitudes. One is sweet to me. The other is now an “ex”. Rah-hoo!

    Like

  122. […] going to tackle the last BUZZWORD first, as we just discussed this here on Spawny’s. It’s hard to be VULNERABLE when dozens of women have rejected your […]

    Like

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