Different paths, compatible goals


I gather there’s a disturbance in the force (btw welcome Yoda.  Padawan has been pining).  I’ve been discussing it in the INTJ comments.  But I think it bears making into a post in its own right:

Some in the manosphere are looking to recruit followers. They see men milling about, or having fun, as recruits just waiting to sign up. I have no problem with that as a goal…okay? Let’s be clear about that. But from my point of view, what they tend to forget is that there are all kinds of reasons to end up in the manosphere. Some of these guys are not interested in the self-improve-and-hunt-the-unicorn route, I’m not. Self-improve for yourself? yeah, why not? When you’re in the mood, if you’re in the mood, why not do that? If you want to. There are too many people telling men what they must believe, what they must do. One part of the manosphere’s mission should be to take that presssure off. Let guys decide what they want to believe and do. Give them a few ideas and step back(!) Push your line by all means, but allow those not interested in it to walk away, or socialise. Push too hard and they’ll actively walk away permanently. They aren’t your enemy. Some of them might come back to you. The atmosphere that they generate while having fun, talking around the issues might draw more guys in. Some of them might sign up for your deal. At least changing the tone signifies he realises he went too far. He’s not doubling down on that. More than you can say about SJWs. Some want the manosphere to be a disciplined army. I think that it’s far more realistic to see the manosphere as a big space filled with all types of men. Set a male friendly tone, make it clear that you believe in men and masculinity (our definition of it, not that of a mangina), open them up to new ideas and facts, point them at new places that might suit them once they’re awake to the issues and the realities. Obs isn’t your enemy, he’s an ally that’s irritating you at the moment. Give him some space so he can’t stick pins in you, stop sticking pins in him…we are all on the same side. Anyway, did you like the Bill Burr clips ( https://spawnyspace.wordpress.com/2014/10/09/ive-been-wondering-but-bill-burr-explains-it-all-male-sports-why-the-female-obsession-with-them/ )? He’s great. He makes great manosphere points but because he makes people laugh as he does it, the points are allowed to be made in the MSM. He’s showing how to push back against the gynocracy in a good natured but pointed way. I love his style, I love what he says.

Also

You have a right to be annoyed. Okay? But what is that doing for you? I don’t want to be annoyed. That wouldn’t help me as a person, or my mission. My eyes are on where I want to be and how to get there. Current turbulence between allies isn’t anything that worries me. Let the people vote with their feet, learn whatever lessons you deem appropriate, and let the people vote again. This is an argument among friends, or at least fellow travellers. — But your comments are making me say what I want, so thanks for that. I am very happy reacting to comments in the comments, I’m not a ‘the post is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth’ kind of person. It’s a pragmatic thing as well as a personality thing. I don’t really trust my communication skills enough to think that I’ll get it right first time (which is why it took so long for me to even create a blog). I also welcome other views (from male friendly sources).

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Posted in Why
28 comments on “Different paths, compatible goals
  1. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Spawny Get,
    It is off topic but, it is tough to find your site. Searching with bing and google won’t ge me here. In the meanwhile, I have added you to my Favorites.
    I would like to avoid going to J4g so that I can link.

    Like

  2. Spawny Get says:

    That’s a deliberate thing. Maybe a decision that I’ll change. I told search engines not to search the site. Your information is actually encouraging, cheers.

    Also cheers for the fave add.

    Padawan, or Cill, one of ‘them’ *rolls eyes* suggested a links panel. I will be doing it…soon…ish (slightly O/T there, sorry ’bout that)

    Like

  3. Spawny Get says:

    Best you check the front page…

    Like

  4. Tarnished says:

    Two quick thoughts, one about men, one about women. Both about the MRM.

    1. The MRM aims to be just that: a movement. MGTOW is not a movement, as it’s comprised of men who have (usually) all reached the same conclusion individually. Now, they gather together online certainly…maybe even a few know each other well enough to meet up IRL. But they are not out recruiting other men to a cause, simply spreading a few red pill observations around and letting others make what they will of it.

    Are some MGTOWs also MRAs? Yes.
    Is this typical? From what I can tell, no.

    MRAs are the guys who state they are trying to change the system for the better.
    MGTOWs are the men who have looked at said system, decided it’s not worth saving, and have washed their hands of it. Unfortunately, much like how (in the US) some Christians are angered by knowing there are non-Christians living here too…so too are some MRAs pissed that MGTOWs have gone home and won’t fight. Remember, movements need members to accomplish their goals. MGTOW just needs individual men to live life for themselves.

    2. There is a plethora of blog posts, podcasts, and YouTube videos about whether or not women should be allowed in the MRM. I’m not a feMRA by any means…as I said previously, I’m egalitarian…but even I can see that being immediately (and sometimes obnoxiously) suspicious of any woman who agrees with the goals of your movement is a bad plan.

    I have always been interested in gender studies. Actual ones, that involve finding out how both sexes “work”, not the code word for Women’s Studies. It was only natural that I found the idea of the MRM intriguing. A lot of what they said I knew to be true from my own observations and from talking to my (all male) friends. Many videos made by vlogging MRAs are short, succinct, and very convincing of the truth. In other words, I was ready to delve in and learn more…Of course, I didn’t realize that my comments would be accepted and replied to only as long as nobody read my YouTube profile, which stated my sex. I was banned from 2 channels, had some of my more egalitarian comments deleted, and had a long, drawn out PM conversation with 2 “YouTube friends” who claimed I had to either be a feminist spy or an attention whore to be interested in the MRM. It was around this time that I stayed away from anything involving feminism or the MRM for about 6 months…then started my own blog.

    I understand these were the actions and words of individual people in the MRM, not the movement itself. Even now, I support men’s rights more than women’s rights. But when a number of guys who claim to be representatives of your ideology actively turn on supporters who happen to have 2 X chromosomes, do not be surprised when you find that they’ve decided to forget about your cause.

    Could be it’s hard to find Unicorns because they are getting their horns sawn off…

    P.S. – This isn’t to say there aren’t women who pretend to be MRAs for the attention, just like men who pretend to be feminist to get girlfriends. Men still need to be cautious and not led astray by magical pussy powers.

    Like

  5. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Tarnished,
    I am sorry that you treated that way. I haven’t had any direct communication with MRMs, with the exception of commenting on Judgybitch’s site, so I can’t tell if their baseline suspicion is high or not.
    You’re a truth seeker and they should have figured that out early.

    Like

  6. Spawny Get says:

    [deleted – I misread something after watching election results till gone 3am last night]

    Like

  7. Tarnished says:

    Thanks Fuzzie, but don’t feel like you actually have to apologize for other guys…I’m not a feminist, after all. 😉

    It’s just a weird example that I thought kind of makes a mockery of their movement. They get upset when people accuse certain members of being sexist, but then prove their sexism by banning or deleting the comments of anyone who happens to be a woman. One guy banned me for “muddying the waters” of his video (which spoke about how women had always used makeup and high heels to artificially improve their appearance). I had pointed out that if you actually study history men and women alike used to wear makeup, don wigs, or walk around in heels/pointed shoes especially in medieval to renaissance era Europe.

    It reminded me greatly of the time I pointed out to my uber feminist Woman’s Health professor that birth control wasn’t a new thing…midwives had created potions and creams for thousands of years that either acted as spermicides or altered a woman’s cycle to prevent pregnancy. It certainly put a similar bee in her bonnet…

    My thought is: If bringing historical facts into your argument destroys it so quickly, you need a better argument.

    Liked by 2 people

  8. Spawny Get says:

    AVFM and JudgyBitch are pretty representative of MRAs. There are all sorts of sites out there, but MRAs are usually good sorts. JB is on the provocative end, good on her.

    I’m not sure that I’d call the site where you were last night MRAs. Man-up-and-chase-unicorns (I don’t intend to be provocative there) isn’t an MRA thing. It’s not mainstream PUA thing either. I have no interest in the battle. The manosphere is big enough that you don;t need to go anywhere that you don’t want to.

    HTH but really I’m not hung up on names. I see no benefit in a battle. I just go my own way, if some friends want to come along, that is great.

    Like

  9. Tarnished says:

    Oh no, Spawny…this was something that happened on YouTube about 2+ years ago.
    No worries here!

    Like

  10. Spawny Get says:

    Thanks. I’m shattered. I’m off for a shower, netflix a movie and sleep…soon.

    Like

  11. Padawan says:

    “There are too many people telling men what they must believe, what they must do. One part of the manosphere’s mission should be to take that presssure off. Let guys decide what they want to believe and do.”

    Truer words were never spoke by the man
    Spawny gets a star from Padawan 😀

    Like

  12. Tarnished says:

    Enjoy! I’m back to work now… 😛

    Like

  13. Spawny Get says:

    But is Spawny not a legend?

    I believe that most men are perfectly good without all the shame-casting and brow-beating.

    If you want less men wandering off MGTOW, offer them a better deal, make it a credible deal and make sure you honour the deal. It’s not rocket science.

    Liked by 1 person

  14. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    Youtubers can get awful with comments. I haedly ever read them. Elsewhere, I needed an example of hate comments and I recalled this

    It was another video of the same song but, they were piling on.

    Like

  15. Spawny Get says:

    “I’m back to work now…”
    I’ll see what I can rustle up, I know I left some spare sympathy around here somewhere… *ducks*

    Like

  16. Spawny Get says:

    “My thought is: If bringing historical facts into your argument destroys it so quickly, you need a better argument.”

    Liked, liked immensely.

    Like

  17. FuzzieWuzzie says:

    It was Farm Boy who, on another thread, suggested that we take a peek at what Obsidian was up to. By saying he was “on the warpath” is not exaggerating. I wish that someone would tell him that we all have to live in this less than perfect culture and we should not divide, allowing our opponents to defeat us in detail.

    Like

  18. Cill says:

    ANOTHER star there Spawny.

    Let me repeat it for my own ears to hear:
    “If you want less men wandering off MGTOW, offer them a better deal, make it a credible deal and make sure you honour the deal. It’s not rocket science.”

    Like

  19. Cill says:

    Fuzzy I have been over to have a look but I find it too depressing. I hung around there regularly for about a week. After I left I’ve paid it about 2 fleeting visits and was not sorry I’d left. Right now it’s worse than ever. I read that INTJs, once they are thoroughly disillusioned or bored or exasperated by something, will ditch it completely. That’s what I’ve done. I would hope that if a wrecking ball came swinging at spawnyspace, it wouldn’t see the light of day.

    Like

  20. Cill says:

    When I heard about this place and that Spawny and Tarn would be involved, I jumped headlong into it. This is a more positive place for me. It’s brand new but old Spawny has hit the ground running. Typical of the man.

    Like

  21. Cill says:

    Any way to take back a point from a star you accidently clicked?

    Like

  22. Spawny Get says:

    Click it again, it’s a toggle.

    Like

  23. Spawny Get says:

    No mystery Cill,

    I just ran out of places to have fun, chat and spread the red pill without being accused of cockblocking a dick measuring competition.

    So I started a blog. Just before said dick measurers started getting aggressive about beating their chests, it seems. Was I really that much of a cockblocker? I find it rather hard to believe, and that’s putting it very mildly.

    All I do remember saying was that while I didn’t object to their paths, there were others to follow, if one wished. Seems I was doing the equivalent of saying men ain’t so bad at a radfem convention. Who knew?

    Like

  24. I suppose I can see why some men might mistrust women’s interest in the MRM. But that’s like thinking someone can’t support rights for anyone except those like the self. Or that you have to choose to support the rights of others or yourself but can’t support both. I don’t feel the men’s rights movement threatens me as a woman or that if they get the rights they seek I will have to lose mine. I think either/or type thinking prevents peoe from seeing how men and women can both have rights, neither has to get the short end of the stick. Feminism also suffers from either/or thinking, and it has led to it being more about female superority than equality. I would hate to see the MRM make that mistake. Men and women don’t have to be enemies pitted in a battle over rights. My 2cents.

    Like

  25. And at the same time I support men’s right to only allow male commenters on their blog if they like. While I may be excluded at the same time I get that men need men only spaces and I am cool with that.

    Like

  26. Spawny Get says:

    I have been challenged by a bitch lovely femeroid with the question, “Why do you care about that guy?”
    Women in general and manginas don’t believe in caring for men. It’s an appalling part of the red pill.
    Watch the tv people getting upset about kidnapping of girls in Africa while ignoring the boys being murdered.
    Or, 30 victims, 5 women and children…
    ManWomanMyth has a video. I’ll dig it out tomorrow.

    Like

  27. Spawny Get says:

    You’re fine here. This is intended to be a male centric, male space. If your comments help men, or help women to understand men…we’re good. Okay? I’ve not seen any problems. At ‘worst’ your comments might trigger discussion (reasoned) or posts (reasonable). I repeat, you’re fine. 😉

    Like

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